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Thread: Does the 818 have a Top

  1. #1

    Question Does the 818 have a Top

    I searched, but the search engine is lacking, both 818 and top are too short of a word! I have not seen a picture of an 818 with a top to keep the rain out, and no mention of a top on the "what you get" page, so what is the scoop, does it come with a top?

    Nucleus

  2. #2
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    The best information we have indicates there will be a convertible soft top available for an additional $2k-$3k over the $9900 kit price. It will probably not be listed on the website right away, but rather shortly after product launch (which is only 40 days or so from now). In other words, by the time you would receive your kit, they will have one available.

    A hard top is a potential, but at this point JUST a potential.

  3. #3
    Factory Five has contracted out a company to build the soft top for the 818. The last post made on the subject said that the company had just been sent the plans recently so it will probably take some time.

  4. #4
    2,000-3,000!? 0.o I didn't think it would be that expensive. But I will wait and see.

    Anyway, glad I live in california.

  5. #5
    Yeah they said it's going to be a fairly high-end top.

  6. #6
    Last edited by David Hodgkins; 05-10-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Replaced mildly insulting sentence. No Harm, no foul... :)

  7. #7
    Here's the FF premium soft top for the roadster:

    http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/prem...ible-soft-top/

    $3300. So I'd expect if it's close to the same quality we'll be spending $2500 or so.

  8. #8
    Senior Member BrandonDrums's Avatar
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    *ahem* we again...need sticky threads. Another question about a top isn't the fault of the new member, it's the fault of the forum that doesn't leverage the wonderful discussion history to convey important fleshed out topics in easy to find threads.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonDrums View Post
    *ahem* we again...need sticky threads. Another question about a top isn't the fault of the new member, it's the fault of the forum that doesn't leverage the wonderful discussion history to convey important fleshed out topics in easy to find threads.
    ^ this

  10. #10
    Senior Member Silvertop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonDrums View Post
    *ahem* we again...need sticky threads. Another question about a top isn't the fault of the new member, it's the fault of the forum that doesn't leverage the wonderful discussion history to convey important fleshed out topics in easy to find threads.
    Agreed. No need to beat up on the new guy for not finding a thread buried deep among hundreds of others. The only real problem is coming up with a protocol for choosing threads that ought to be "stickied" -- and then lobbying forum administration to do it.

  11. #11
    We should do what other forums do and just have a single sticky called something like "Must read information!" In that thread we would have links and titles to popular threads about commonly discussed topics.

  12. #12
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    I don't think it would be very difficult to fabricate a removable hardtop out of glass or carbon fiber. Someone will do it, most likely building a female mold as part of the process. After the mold is built, other copies can be built. It will be even better, though, is the skin of the hardtop is attached to a welded steel or aluminum skeleton.

    A few different hardtop designs have been fabricated for the FFR roadster over the years.

    Originally, I've said that I will need to wait for the coupe because an open roadster is just not a good idea for Florida, especially since I want it to be a daily driver. I might not have to wait that long.

  13. #13
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    I see what some of you are saying, but it seems to me that the car has a top, bottom, left and right side, front and rear, etc. So, of course it has a top...

    Yeah, OK you can throw rocks at me now!!

    +1 to what everyone else has said. But Nucleus, I think the important take away is that by the time you ordered and received your kit (and more importantly---FINISHED your kit), you are likely to have two options; both a hard and soft top. Certainly a soft top, with a high probability of a hard top. My unconfirmed hunch is that demand for some type of hard top will speed production by either Factory Five or another party, and thus the availability to which I refer.

    My $.02, and sorry for the smart "hind end" remarks...

    Regards,

    Steve

  14. #14
    I really don't want a hardtop, I don't even really want a full soft top. I just want something like the Boxster Spyder has that will keep most of the rain out while I drive home or somewhere out of the rain.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bnr32jason View Post
    I really don't want a hardtop, I don't even really want a full soft top. I just want something like the Boxster Spyder has that will keep most of the rain out while I drive home or somewhere out of the rain.
    ...and some entrepenuer will build that too. Not to woory. If there is a demand, someone will build it if FFR does not, and I think what you are asking for here will be in high demand.

  16. #16
    I know the guys using the car for daily drivers would love a hard top, but I like comfortable luxurious DD's, I could never handle driving a car like the 818 every single day. So for me an emergency top will be fine.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    LOL! That just goes to show how diverse we humans can be. Driving my truck (and luxury cars) is boring as hell to me. I'd rather take a taxi (if it didn't cost so much). The point of the 818 being a daily driver for me is so I can enjoy my time driving. But it should be noted, there is no appreciable traffic where I live, and there are some decent corners around, so fun can definitely be had.

  18. #18
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    There is a less expensive ($1600) top available for the Roadster. I haven't noticed it mentioned in previous 818 conversations, but it is an example of a design that sacrifices some performance to reduce the price.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    From what I understand, people were not happy with that top and ultimately then spent additional money on the more expensive top. So I think FFR just decided not to bother.

  20. #20
    I couldn't agree more. There are lots of guys that leave their fun car at home, enduring something boring daily. How many times do they think "if I were in my______..."

    In order to daily drive the fun car, it has to be livable enough to do so. A hard top (or targa) goes a long way towards making it possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xusia View Post
    LOL! That just goes to show how diverse we humans can be. Driving my truck (and luxury cars) is boring as hell to me. I'd rather take a taxi (if it didn't cost so much). The point of the 818 being a daily driver for me is so I can enjoy my time driving.

  21. #21
    Any talk of FF working on roll up windows yet.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by clintavo View Post
    I couldn't agree more. There are lots of guys that leave their fun car at home, enduring something boring daily. How many times do they think "if I were in my______..."

    In order to daily drive the fun car, it has to be livable enough to do so. A hard top (or targa) goes a long way towards making it possible.
    While some may wish they were in a sports car for their daily commute, I've been there, done that, and hated it. I even commuted on a Ducati 996 motorcycle for a year. Sitting in traffic or driving through town or down the freeway in a sports car is boring and a waste of a sports car in my opinion. I would much rather be in a Mercedes S-class for my commute and then have the fun car for pleasure. I can't tell you how many times I was driving in traffic in a bucket seat and thought "if I were in my ____."

  23. #23
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnr32jason View Post
    ...Sitting in traffic...
    I've owned a fair amount of sports cars as daily drivers and you're right about them in traffic. Which is why I qualified my statement with the fact that I live where there is virtually no traffic. And the highways (what little distance I use them fore) have some really awesome curves. And there is always the long way home.

    I realize these aren't options for everyone, and that saddens me greatly...

  24. #24
    Yeah, seems most of my life has been in or around a metropolitan area so it's filled with busy freeways, traffic lights, etc, etc. Other than the traffic though, I love living that way. That's why as long as I am financially able I will always have a reasonably comfortable daily driver, even something as simple as Toyota Corolla or Honda Fit and then have my performance car for pleasurable driving.

    Riding my 996 to work daily for a year made me not want to ride it for fun on the weekends. It ruined the bike for me.

  25. #25
    Grinding through LA traffic does suck, but it would only be slightly more endurable in a cushier car. IMO, the ability to thrill is the biggest luxury.

  26. #26

    There is a lot to that top

    Looking at the videos here, you can see why the good top costs $3400.

  27. #27
    President, Factory Five Racing Dave Smith's Avatar
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    The Forum has followed the ups and downs of the car/development process as much (and as little) as we've been afforded the time, usually in spurts between periods of intense work at FFR.

    Anyway, we'll have a soft top that is a very high-end part and will deliver really good weather protection and enable use of modern AC/heat defrost effectively. It would be easy to cobble together a removable hard-top that sorta fits and sorta looks good... BUT the car has been carefully guided by really top level engineering and design and any hard top design will take a while as we want to do it right. I LOVE Vmans design as it makes the car look very different (almost a hyper 911 Carrera).

    Bottom line is that this car is not the result of some boat-builder in a garage with bondo and duct tape... Both the soft top design (to be released concurrent or shortly after launch) and a removable hard-top design (that could involve a new Coupe body, a simple removable design, or not make the cut at all) HAVE to be the highest quality because they can enhance (or hurt) the looks of the car and they both HAVE to deliver really modern street usability and transform the road-rocket 818 into a usable wet, cold, and hot weather driver.
    Dave Smith, FFR 001
    President
    Factory Five Racing

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
    The Forum has followed the ups and downs of the car/development process as much (and as little) as we've been afforded the time, usually in spurts between periods of intense work at FFR.

    Anyway, we'll have a soft top that is a very high-end part and will deliver really good weather protection and enable use of modern AC/heat defrost effectively. It would be easy to cobble together a removable hard-top that sorta fits and sorta looks good... BUT the car has been carefully guided by really top level engineering and design and any hard top design will take a while as we want to do it right. I LOVE Vmans design as it makes the car look very different (almost a hyper 911 Carrera).

    Bottom line is that this car is not the result of some boat-builder in a garage with bondo and duct tape... Both the soft top design (to be released concurrent or shortly after launch) and a removable hard-top design (that could involve a new Coupe body, a simple removable design, or not make the cut at all) HAVE to be the highest quality because they can enhance (or hurt) the looks of the car and they both HAVE to deliver really modern street usability and transform the road-rocket 818 into a usable wet, cold, and hot weather driver.
    This level of delivering what the customer wants is why FFR will be getting my money. Thanks, Dave

    P.S. Just give me a nice place the front tag.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xusia View Post
    From what I understand, people were not happy with that top and ultimately then spent additional money on the more expensive top. So I think FFR just decided not to bother.
    I just posted it as something to that adds perspective if anyone wonders if there is a way to make a top for less money.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Silvertop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post

    .......Anyway, we'll have a soft top that is a very high-end part and will deliver really good weather protection and enable use of modern AC/heat defrost effectively. It would be easy to cobble together a removable hard-top that sorta fits and sorta looks good... BUT the car has been carefully guided by really top level engineering and design and any hard top design will take a while as we want to do it right......

    ... Both the soft top design (to be released concurrent or shortly after launch) and a removable hard-top design (that could involve a new Coupe body, a simple removable design, or not make the cut at all) HAVE to be the highest quality because they can enhance (or hurt) the looks of the car and they both HAVE to deliver really modern street usability and transform the road-rocket 818 into a usable wet, cold, and hot weather driver.
    So glad you're doing it this way. We just really don't need a cheesy top. When I fill out my options sheet next fall for my October delivery, there will be a high-end soft top on the page. And I'll slide over the additional 3K+ with a smile.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertop View Post
    So glad you're doing it this way. We just really don't need a cheesy top. When I fill out my options sheet next fall for my October delivery, there will be a high-end soft top on the page. And I'll slide over the additional 3K+ with a smile.
    And the first time you are 30 miles from home and a thunderstorm pops up, you will be very glad.

  32. #32
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    Because Factory Five reaches for the best in design and performance, in the soft top and all other components, I can't wait to buy my second kit from them this summer.
    Pete
    Received 818 #25 on 8/26/13, now adding 06 WRX bits from 818Donors and other vendors.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
    The Forum has followed the ups and downs of the car/development process as much (and as little) as we've been afforded the time, usually in spurts between periods of intense work at FFR.

    Anyway, we'll have a soft top that is a very high-end part and will deliver really good weather protection and enable use of modern AC/heat defrost effectively. It would be easy to cobble together a removable hard-top that sorta fits and sorta looks good... BUT the car has been carefully guided by really top level engineering and design and any hard top design will take a while as we want to do it right. I LOVE Vmans design as it makes the car look very different (almost a hyper 911 Carrera).

    Bottom line is that this car is not the result of some boat-builder in a garage with bondo and duct tape... Both the soft top design (to be released concurrent or shortly after launch) and a removable hard-top design (that could involve a new Coupe body, a simple removable design, or not make the cut at all) HAVE to be the highest quality because they can enhance (or hurt) the looks of the car and they both HAVE to deliver really modern street usability and transform the road-rocket 818 into a usable wet, cold, and hot weather driver.
    Glad to hear you LOVE Vman's Hardtop Design Dave, I do as well! He is clearly a very talented car designer and we are fortunate for his contributions. My 818SR build is slated to begin in late September. I can hardly wait to get going on it! I hope to have my build ready for the early spring New England season. My favorite version would be a Gullwing Targa version of Vman's design. This would even make it possible for 818R owners to get in and out. If the windshield frame is incorporated, then the top could be removed for track and the small windscreen used if a full X-Cage was not sufficient to meet track safety requirements. Certainly would be nice for the 818S crowd as the Gullwing Targa panels could be stowed on nice days and quickly installed if weather turned. This certainly would extend my 818 play season.

    I know you have VERY high standards and will not release a hardtop till its ready. Thank you for extending our reach with the 818.

    Cheers!

    Steve
    Last edited by FFR-ADV; 05-12-2013 at 08:03 PM. Reason: BTW "Happy Mother's Day To All"

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
    The Forum has followed the ups and downs of the car/development process as much (and as little) as we've been afforded the time, usually in spurts between periods of intense work at FFR.

    Anyway, we'll have a soft top that is a very high-end part and will deliver really good weather protection and enable use of modern AC/heat defrost effectively. It would be easy to cobble together a removable hard-top that sorta fits and sorta looks good... BUT the car has been carefully guided by really top level engineering and design and any hard top design will take a while as we want to do it right. I LOVE Vmans design as it makes the car look very different (almost a hyper 911 Carrera).

    Bottom line is that this car is not the result of some boat-builder in a garage with bondo and duct tape... Both the soft top design (to be released concurrent or shortly after launch) and a removable hard-top design (that could involve a new Coupe body, a simple removable design, or not make the cut at all) HAVE to be the highest quality because they can enhance (or hurt) the looks of the car and they both HAVE to deliver really modern street usability and transform the road-rocket 818 into a usable wet, cold, and hot weather driver.
    This boat-builder is working his way up to car builder.


  35. #35
    Senior Member D2W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
    Bottom line is that this car is not the result of some boat-builder in a garage with bondo and duct tape... .
    Ouch! I wonder who that was directed at?? :0
    I can do anything with enough time and money.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Silvertop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flytosail View Post
    This boat-builder is working his way up to car builder.
    With all due respect to Mr. Smith -- probably not the best metaphor he could have used. Boat building is a serious art form unto itself. Bondo and duct tape are not typical construction materials. Beautiful kayak!!

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by D2W View Post
    Ouch! I wonder who that was directed at?? :0
    I thought the same thing... Zing!
    FFR GTM and 818 "Lurker"
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  38. #38
    Bondo and duct tape? That sounds more like nascar than a handcrafted boat.

  39. #39
    Hi Flytosail,

    Is that a Chesapeake Light Craft Kayak. Nicely built... They are to component boats what FFR is to component cars... Quality product, done right, made build-able, with a both attractive and usable end product.

    I think Dave's comments about "boat builders" comes from living down kit car history as there were many companies (and sadly there still are some) who could shape fiberglass (of various quality) but did not know how to build a car. Those companies nearly ruined the kit car industry with fiberglass tubs that promised to turn a Pinto into a MG-TD or Jaguar. Many of these can still be found all over craigslist. The quality of the resultant product was seriously flawed and has been an obstacle for true quality component car companies like Factory Five to overcome the ill repute those companies brought to the market.

    My 818SR will proudly wear a Factory Five emblem as it is not pretending to be anything other than the wonderful design which Factory Five has created from scratch for our enjoyment and hopefully for their company and employees profit.

    I have confidence that a removable hardtop will come in time that I will gladly purchase. A variant of Vman's design with a Gullwing T-Top is still my favorite design to date. Time will tell and hopefully next spring my 818SR will be on the road and who knows what other interesting options will come our way in the coming year.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by FFR-ADV; 05-13-2013 at 08:27 PM.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Silvertop View Post
    With all due respect to Mr. Smith -- probably not the best metaphor he could have used. Boat building is a serious art form unto itself. Bondo and duct tape are not typical construction materials. Beautiful kayak!!
    I think you guys are taking what he said too literally.

    He's not taking a stab at boat builders he's taking a stab at someone crossing over from boat building to car building.

    I wouldn't want a heart surgeon repairing a brain bleed and I don't want a boat builder building my car.

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