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Thread: THE Wheel & Tire Thread

  1. #321
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innkeepr View Post
    ... I really dislike using spacers. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought spacers transfer where the weight was hung on the mounting surface. Increasing the outward pressure on the studs vs the hub.
    I was of the same mind till I understood what was going on and why. Slight spacing can be a great tool, as mentioned. All tires are not equal, especially in racing and DOT3 track tires. A 3-5MM spacer can work wonders. For me it allowed me to get the full negative camber I wanted without rubbing the springs and yet not getting into the fender and not having to buy new wheels. As you and everyone has noticed wheel manufacturers are not willing to build odd offsets or "ETs" for every situation. Rather than compromise the size, strength or weight just get spacers.
    Don't buy crap, cast spacers and buy wheel-centric ones that will not cause an imbalance. Keep spacers to a minimum thickness. I'm still not a big fan of a joint (the wheel to spacer contact point) being way out on a wheel stud. You are adding another part and another contact surface and another pace for stacking of tolerances and balance issues. Yet, lots of people do it in racing!

    Speaking of studs, don't skimp on thread contact when using a spacer. There are the long ARP (and competitive studs) and then there are some intermediate lengths to be had. I switched everything over to the more common 12 X 1.5 from 12 X 1.25. One to look for is ARP 100-7717, designed for the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII. Beefier threads and many more options out there for lug nuts.

  2. #322
    Moonlight Performance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    I switched everything over to the more common 12 X 1.5 from 12 X 1.25.
    That's very good advice, not just for the availability factor but also for the thread strength factor. The ultra-fine thread Subaru uses are VERY easy to damage. Just a slight tap with the wheel while lining up the holes with the studs can mangle the threads.

  3. #323
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    That's very good advice, not just for the availability factor but also for the thread strength factor. The ultra-fine thread Subaru uses are VERY easy to damage. Just a slight tap with the wheel while lining up the holes with the studs can mangle the threads.
    I'm on the other side of the fence on this - a fine thread screw has greater tensile area than a coarse thread (by about 5%) so it will have higher strength. Also, it may be that I'm using aluminum wheels but I've never damaged my wheel stud threads when removing/installing wheels. If I were to damage the threads, I have an M12x1.25 die to chase them with.

  4. #324
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    I'm on the other side of the fence on this - a fine thread screw has greater tensile area than a coarse thread (by about 5%) so it will have higher strength. Also, it may be that I'm using aluminum wheels but I've never damaged my wheel stud threads when removing/installing wheels. If I were to damage the threads, I have an M12x1.25 die to chase them with.
    Well, you know, "race car". How much stronger do you think the ARP studs are over stock? I've seen stock break at the track. Yes, finer threads have a bit more strength. I got tired of cross-threading nuts. 1.25 is the odd-man out on studs and especially if you are upgrading it just seems to make a lot of sense to me to switch! Lug nuts are cheaper!
    I'm not going to recommend them just yet but I bought a set of aluminum lug nuts for $48 and they weight almost half what the steel racing nuts weight. NA in 1.25.

  5. #325
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    Scargo -

    I am looking at 5mm hubcentric subaru spacers - if thats the route I need to go. My main concern for now is that all the 04 RS wheels on Tirerack show a 45mm offset. Other places I looked at show 35 - 50.
    If I can get away with 40s with 5mm spacers for the RS now, and use it on the 818C later - I will be happy.
    I plan on Waynes wide tire LC for the rear, so there shouldn't be an issue with that aspect. Just have to decide to get 4 of the 17x7.5s or go 17x8

  6. #326
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Innkeepr, Please don't rely on me for advice on the wheels. There are others with wheels mounted on street versions. Mine is an R, I'm not even using the standard suspension pieces and my stuff is big and may... I say "may" fit under the car and work without flares. I am starting with Front: 17 x 9 +49 / Rear: 17 x 9.5 +32
    I would say that you should look at tires you might consider and see what the recommended rim width is. Then there is an acceptable range of rim widths. If you contemplate going to a bigger tire later on then go with the wider rims from the start. The only downside is the slight increase in wheel weight which shouldn't worry you with a street car.

  7. #327
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    Well, you know, "race car". How much stronger do you think the ARP studs are over stock? I've seen stock break at the track. Yes, finer threads have a bit more strength. I got tired of cross-threading nuts. 1.25 is the odd-man out on studs and especially if you are upgrading it just seems to make a lot of sense to me to switch! Lug nuts are cheaper!
    I'm not going to recommend them just yet but I bought a set of aluminum lug nuts for $48 and they weight almost half what the steel racing nuts weight. NA in 1.25.
    I'd agree that the ARP studs are most likely stronger than stock, I'm actually running ARP studs with 10mm spacers out back in the 818. They are just fine thread instead of coarse. I've heard that fine threads are more prone to galling if the threaded hole and fastener are made of the same material and not properly lubricated. I just haven't had any issues personally with the fine thread studs.

    Innkeeper, if you can get away with the existing donor wheels for now and buy specific wheels for the 818, I'd suggest that route. If you do go with spacers, there's nothing wrong with that, just get the hub centric ones as mentioned and it's recommended that you get extended wheel studs like the ARPs as they will ensure you have enough thread engagement on the studs. If you absolutely have to buy wheels that will fit the RS, I used to run 18x9 +38mm offset rims with 225/40/18 tires on my 02 wrx so they should also fit your RS.

  8. #328
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    STi

    After much wrestling with the idea - I concede you are right. Just going to replace the 16s for now. Was hoping to get dual use, but it appears I would be throwing good $ after bad.
    Think I will play around with my powder coating on a stock set, that should satisfy the boy and me for now.

    Thanks for your input.

  9. #329
    Moonlight Performance
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    Adding my stats to the thread to help others.

    Wheels:
    Enkei RPF1 18x9.5 et38 rear, 17x8 et45 front.
    Tires:
    Dunlop Direzza Z2 star-spec 265/35/18 rear, 235/40/17 front

    Pics:
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post227725

    The only non-standard suspension modifications on my 818 are VCP rear lower trailing arms and free caster mod up front (flipping the rear lower control arm bracket 180 degrees).

    I don't have the body on yet so can't comment on rubbing or whether spacers are needed to space the wheels and tires OUT for better looks. On the inside front, there is no rubbing all the way to full lock. On the rear, I needed to remove the spacer sleeves for the upper trailing link, then move the link as far inward as I could between the tabs on each end of the link. I used an M10 washer as the spacer on the inside of the tabs (as shown in pic in my build thread linked above), and will need to cut a new longer outer spacer to length. Aside from that, I don't appear to need any wheel spacers to prevent rubbing from the inside.

    I'll update this after the body is on.
    Last edited by Hindsight; 02-18-2016 at 04:03 PM.

  10. #330
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Time to buy some tires and looking for input. Mostly an (overkill) street tire, maybe some track days if I ever get it done ().

    People have said to stay under 24", but I'm finding that difficult given tire sizes available for Zii's, V720, and RE-71R. It would be nice if the car was designed to fit tires that are commonly available.

    It looks like Hindsight's setup is close to what I'd want, but even his fronts are over the 24" that is said to rub.

    Thoughts?

    Wheels:
    Front - 17x8.25 [+35mm]
    Rear - 18x8.75 [+33mm]


    215/45/17 - 24.6" OD (too big and too narrow)
    225/45/17 - 25" OD (too big)
    234/40/17 - 24.4" OD (close)
    2450/40/17 - 24.4" OD (close)
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  11. #331
    Moonlight Performance
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    I've done a string alignment since making that post and still no rubbing on the frame. The frame is the issue with the > 24" diameter. I am using the aluminum control arms and have the caster mod.... not sure if that helps with the clearance or not. I think 24" is the very safe front diameter. You can go a little bigger, probably, but much past 24.5" and you are going to have a very high chance of rubbing I think.

    Still don't have the body on so can't comment on body rubbing yet.

  12. #332
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Craig
    There are so many thing that come into play it is difficult to guarantee what will work.
    This was my first attempt, which rubbed fender during a low to medium autocross corners. Maybe 1/2 G.
    STI alum. LCA mounted in wagon holes on early frame (40mm more than normal track width)
    17x9x45et rims with 235/40-17 Toyo R888.
    No problem lock to lock. Maybe would touch inner aluminum if I had it installed.
    Rubbed fenders badly even in a low G turn.
    To fix the problem I went with taller upper ball joint to increase camber gain. this gets the wheel to tuck under the fender better.
    Second, lengthened the shock to have the bump stop come into play before it rubs the fender.
    Third, I stiffened the rear springs to prevent body roll.

    I suggest you start with some cheap used rims and tires. Put some foam under you fenders to see where/when you rub during autocross conditions. Then you will know how big you can go.
    Bob
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  13. #333
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Cross posting from my build thread.

    No alignment yet.

    Tires are 235/40/17 and 255/35/18. Wheels are XXR 530, 17 x 8.25 et35 and 18 x 8.75 et 35 rear. No spacers. Sedan arms in sedan holes. Ebay rear trailing arm.

    The OD is closer to 23.5 than the mathematical 24.4 you'd expect a 235/40/17 to be. 1.5" of clearance to the rear aluminum when going straight. Didn't turn the wheel to see how that does.






    Rear tire has good clearance as well.


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  14. #334
    Harley818's Avatar
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    Hey Craig,
    same wheels and tire sizes as mine.
    I haven't aligned it yet either, but so far It looks good.
    You have more clearance with the trailing links. Did you get those from Wayne? Got mine on eBay from godspeed and I have about 1/4 in clearance. Might have to cut off the rear mount bracket and reweld it over a bit, or make a new bracket.
    Harley
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  15. #335
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    What does your clearance on the top of the front fender and tire look like ?
    Tony Nadalin
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  16. #336
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    What does your clearance on the top of the front fender and tire look like ?
    Tony,
    I am running 5" ride height with toyo R888 235/40-17 in front and 255/40-17 in rear.
    I can set a 2x4 on top of each tire and it will clear the fender.
    If you are running 3 1/2 " race ride height. The top of your tire will be even with the fender. I suspect you will rub.
    Bob

    A picture from yesterday:

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    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  17. #337
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    So I'm a little concerned as with a 3.5" ride height I have very little room between the front fender and tire, I'm running 400lbs springs in the front, going to a higher ride height is going to take away the advantages of the aero.

    WP_20160614_18_12_46_Pro.jpg
    Tony Nadalin
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  18. #338
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    Run it, my tire and wheel combo is also a tight fit playing around with the back of the fender were it mounts to the rocker might help. I can gain maybe a 1/4 inch of clearance at the top of the fender well but moving the back of the fender where it mounts to the rocker out an 1.5 inches.
    Something to play with.
    Tony it looks like I am about 3 weeks behind you, looking forward to your track report.

  19. #339
    Senior Member Buzz Skyline's Avatar
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    It looks like many of the wheel and tire combinations people are listing require an upgraded trailing arm. I would like to run 225 on the front and 255 on the back, but I don't want to swap out my donor training arms. Does anyone know if the Enkei 18x8 with 255/35 fit on the back without spacers?

  20. #340
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Skyline View Post
    It looks like many of the wheel and tire combinations people are listing require an upgraded trailing arm. I would like to run 225 on the front and 255 on the back, but I don't want to swap out my donor training arms. Does anyone know if the Enkei 18x8 with 255/35 fit on the back without spacers?
    What's the offset? In back, I have stock wagon trailing arms and plenty of clearance with 255/35R18 tires on 18x8.75 XXR rims, +35mm offset.

  21. #341
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    Wayne Presley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Skyline View Post
    It looks like many of the wheel and tire combinations people are listing require an upgraded trailing arm. I would like to run 225 on the front and 255 on the back, but I don't want to swap out my donor training arms. Does anyone know if the Enkei 18x8 with 255/35 fit on the back without spacers?

    The 18x8.5 +48's fit with the stock arm on the 818 that I have in the shop now. I'm an Enkei dealer so let me quote you a set.
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  22. #342
    Senior Member Buzz Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    The 18x8.5 +48's fit with the stock arm on the 818 that I have in the shop now. I'm an Enkei dealer so let me quote you a set.
    I just went out and took a look. It's not the trailing arm that's the problem after all. It's the link that comes in diagonally to the knuckle. There's about 10 mm of clearance between the wheel/tire and the link. I have RPF1s that are 17x7 with 42 mm offset now. If we add an inch to the wheel width (~25 mm) it would rub badly, so 17x8 are out unless the offset is reduced by about 4 mm. Going with 18x8 would be OK with 45 mm offset, maybe. But 18x8.5 with +48 almost certainly won't fit unless I change something pretty dramatically with the links.

    Have I done something wrong with the adjustment of the links? The rear toe is about 0. Camber is about -1, as I recall.

  23. #343
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    Rear toe should be 3/16" in total. Move the link all the way inboard and put the spacers out to gain another .25".
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  24. #344
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    Do 18" wheels fit in the new version front fenders?

  25. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach34 View Post
    Do 18" wheels fit in the new version front fenders?
    It's an issue with tire diameter, the tire hits the frame first
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  26. #346
    Senior Member Buzz Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    The 18x8.5 +48's fit with the stock arm on the 818 that I have in the shop now. I'm an Enkei dealer so let me quote you a set.
    I'd prefer a safer offset. Enkei seems to have 17" and 18" wheels with 35 mm offset and 5-100 bolt pattern. They are part numbers 3797808035SP for the 17" and 3798808035SP for the 18". Can you get me quotes for those?

  27. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Skyline View Post
    I'd prefer a safer offset. Enkei seems to have 17" and 18" wheels with 35 mm offset and 5-100 bolt pattern. They are part numbers 3797808035SP for the 17" and 3798808035SP for the 18". Can you get me quotes for those?
    Fronts are $490 pair and rears are $590 pair. Both are in stock but they are down to 4 on the fronts
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  28. #348
    Senior Member Buzz Skyline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    Fronts are $490 pair and rears are $590 pair. Both are in stock but they are down to 4 on the fronts
    Great. Thanks Wayne!

  29. #349
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    Enkei RPF1 17x9 +35 5x100 Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec 245/40/17

    So, I tried to fit wheels/tires from my WRX onto my 818S... no dice. Enkei RPF1 17x9 +35 5x100 Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec 245/40/17 with no spacer, rubbed both wheel wells at full lock left and right on the front. Also, the tire would bury itself into the end link for the sway bar. I would say, confirmed - this is not a good fitment. :-(
    20170322_173730.jpg
    20170322_173737.jpg
    20170322_173741.jpg
    20170322_173751.jpg
    20170322_173829.jpg
    20170322_173852.jpg

  30. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by axelthrasher View Post
    So, I tried to fit wheels/tires from my WRX onto my 818S... no dice. Enkei RPF1 17x9 +35 5x100 Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec 245/40/17 with no spacer, rubbed both wheel wells at full lock left and right on the front. Also, the tire would bury itself into the end link for the sway bar. I would say, confirmed - this is not a good fitment. :-(
    20170322_173730.jpg
    20170322_173737.jpg
    20170322_173741.jpg
    20170322_173751.jpg
    20170322_173829.jpg
    20170322_173852.jpg
    You mean of you go 3 sizes larger on the front row than recommended, they rub?
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  31. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    You mean of you go 3 sizes larger on the front row than recommended, they rub?
    Apparently they don't work... who knew!?! The only reason I tossed them on was to post pictures for someone later down the road to hopefully prevent their mistake. I have them as a spare set for my wrx, and thought - why not? Tonight, I believe I will try my Enkei RPF1 17x8 +45 5x100 with 225/45/17 Blizzak WS80 just to check fitment...
    Last edited by axelthrasher; 03-23-2017 at 12:50 PM.

  32. #352
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Wayne, that's mean. I say forget full lock! Who needs it? Way overrated. Big fat tires on the front will help with understeer and added weight will help prevent wheelies.

  33. #353
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    For my wheel/tire setup on my 818S, I will be running 17x8 +45 Enkei RPF1

    For tires, I'm torn between A) 235/40/17 front and 255/40/17 rear, or B) 215/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear.

  34. #354
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    The CCWs are back in Colorado and the AEM 818R now has black RPF1s all around.

    Went with the same size in the front - 17x9 45ET
    And a bit smaller in the back, down from a 10.5 to a 18x9.5 38ET

    Saved 24# all around which was nice. Still running 255/40-17 and 285/30-18 R1Ss all around.

    M1cQS2m.jpg
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  35. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    The CCWs are back in Colorado and the AEM 818R now has black RPF1s all around.

    Went with the same size in the front - 17x9 45ET
    And a bit smaller in the back, down from a 10.5 to a 18x9.5 38ET

    Saved 24# all around which was nice. Still running 255/40-17 and 285/30-18 R1Ss all around.

    M1cQS2m.jpg
    How the heck to you fit those under those wheel wells!?! I tried my 245/40/17s on my 17x9 +35 RPF1... not even close, major rub.

    I have STI Brembos that I will be swapping to on my car, and 17x9 DO NOT play nice with the STI Brembos... So, due to the constraints that is the 818S, I will have to run 17x8 up front, possibly 17x9 in rear, but I'm not sure yet.

  36. #356
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axelthrasher View Post
    How the heck to you fit those under those wheel wells!?! I tried my 245/40/17s on my 17x9 +35 RPF1... not even close, major rub.

    I have STI Brembos that I will be swapping to on my car, and 17x9 DO NOT play nice with the STI Brembos... So, due to the constraints that is the 818S, I will have to run 17x8 up front, possibly 17x9 in rear, but I'm not sure yet.
    I should have mentioned that I'm still running studs and spacers. 7.5mm or so in the front and 17-18mm in the back. It's been a minute since I measured them and storage space in my brain is at a premium these days.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  37. #357
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    So, after more test fitting I believe I have finally decided on the wheel/tire setup that I plan to run on my 818s. Both fitments were not using any wheel spacers.

    20170328_174305.jpg - This is my 5x100 17x9 +35 Enkei RPF1 with 245/40/27 Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec (works in the rear with about 10mm of space from the trailing arm. No other fitment issues. Don't work in the front at all).
    20170328_174320.jpg
    20170328_174322.jpg


    20170329_122357.jpg - These 2 are of my 5x100 17x8 +45 Enkei RPF1 with 225/45/17 Blizzak WS80 (these do not work well in the front as they hit the sway bar end links, and fender liners).
    20170329_122408.jpg

    Ultimately, I will go with a staggered setup. I will post pictures and details once the car is fit up.
    Last edited by axelthrasher; 03-29-2017 at 01:47 PM.

  38. #358
    Harley818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley818 View Post
    I've heard that the 45 series tires are a problem. As pearldrummer says and further back in this thread, you need to stay below 24.0 inches diameter to clear with an offset of around 35-40. in the front.
    I have 235/40-17's with XXR530's and 33 offset on the front. Fit is great but I haven't driven it yet so not sure about fender clearance under compression.
    Rears I have 255/35-17 with 33 offset. They are OK too although they are only 3/8 clearance to my trailing links and under load may touch. I can modify if necessary.

    OK, now that I have driven the car for a week, I am 100% happy with my wheel tire combination above.
    I am not using any spacers.
    I bought the rear adjustable trailing links off ebay, and the wheel/tires do not contact the trailing links.
    I also bought adjustable lateral links, and with them set at the stock 2002 wagon length (16 1/8 center to center) the tires do not contact the trailing links even under high lateral cornering (I have about 1/4 in clearance).

    Really happy with my choice of tires/wheels.

    The front tires rub just a bit at extreme lock, but that is a small sacrifice to pay for the look of the full fender and the balance between front and rear.
    The rear tires do not contact anything unless I hit a pothole or recessed mancover - just a slight contact.


    The rear tires break loose a little earlier than I like, but really controllable. I do have my front sway bar in, and I might still play with rear alignment a bit, although I am pretty pleased with the cornering (like a rail, and very predictable).
    Harley
    Bought 2002 Donor Jan 2014
    First Start Jan 18, 2015
    First Drive Feb 14, 2015

  39. #359
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Dragging this thread out again. I'm about at the point where I'll need to purchase tires.
    I've been looking around and the choices as you all know is thin to say the least. I've been searching different sizes, the recommended sizes 215x40x17 ft 255x35x18 rear and 235x40x17 and 255x35 x18. 225x40x17 are only avail in track tires only. What is avail are Dunlop and Toyo brands that I'm concidering.

    I've only searched Tire Rack online so far, and I'm not sure we're else to look.
    Here's what I've found so far....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  40. #360
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    Personal recommendation based on price, current performance on my 818, and past performance over several seasons of LeMons and ChumpCar -
    2018-05-18 07_44_48-Tire Size 215_40-17 (Front) & 265_35-18 (Rear) _ Tire Rack.jpg

    They are currently rated 2nd out of 9 in the category on tire rack, but you'd have to run 265 rears (.25" taller diameter, .375" wider, would probably be okay.)

    With my driving ability I figure I'll always be better off in the long run being able to afford to replace flat-spotted tires then buying top of the line for twice the price and a near-negligible grip improvement.

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