Alternative Engine Options

[Gollum]

I was just wondering what variety of engine choices people have considered. I see a lot of modular engine powered cars already, which is totally awesome, but I love that FFR's '33 puts performance first, not being "period". This opens up the door, in a way, to a whole new market. There's a lot of younger people like me (in their 20's and 30's) that are able to look at cars as more of a platform for ideas, not just a way to do something cool that's already been done time and time again.

A good example would be how we're now seeing more cross-brand engine swaps in japanese cars than ever before. The young kids in the highschool and college age are becoming enthralled with vintage japanese cars and learn how to swap in a modern 4 cylinder before they know how to change a cylinder head.

Heck, I'm an example myself. At only 23 years of age I've owned 5 Z cars and the only reason I got into them was because they're affordable and will fit nearly any engine, giving me free reign on where to go with it. I can leave the suspension relatively stock and be fine, but I can also go crazy as well. People are attracted to such a back for the buck platform.

So my question is, have we seen any evidence of out of the box thinking here yet? FFR kind of got the ball rolling with the suspension if you think about it, and I know if I ever build one it will be pretty radical. Maybe something like a turbocharged BMW Inline 6, or a hopped up nissan V6.


Disclaimer: I in no way dislike V8's or the classic american hot rod. Please don't take this as me disagreeing with anyone's choice of motor for their project.

[68GT500MAN]

Those choices will be interesting. I chose to go with a Ford BOSS 347 to be a part of the "hot rod crowd" around here, it is hard enough being accepted not hacing a Chevy in the car.
Doug

[Gollum]

Those choices will be interesting. I chose to go with a Ford BOSS 347 to be a part of the "hot rod crowd" around here, it is hard enough being accepted not hacing a Chevy in the car.
Doug

Haha, too true. A few months ago I saw a guy pull up to the ace hardware in town in a vintage ford coupe, and I noticed right away that he had a ford small block (first giveaway was the equal exhaust header spacing at the head, then I checked the dizzy location and yup, it's in front). So I walked up to him and shook his hand and said "you just don't meet enough of you guys with FORD engines still in your FORD, I commend you" and he stared at me with a blank stare and said "I'm amazed anyone your age could even tell!"

[Ray]

I'm thinking about a '33 build and would like to drop a flat-head V-8 in it or an early '50s "Y" block.

Ray

[PhyrraM]

In my 20s I had a '90 Thuderbird SC. It had, from the factory, a 3.8 liter supercharged V-6. I always thought that if it had 500 less pounds that motor would really come into it's own. It already uses the 5.0/302/351W bellhousing, so a T-5 behind would be an easy thing. The T-bird guys can get these in the 350 horse range before touching the internals. 450+ has been done. They have got to be lighter than a stock 5.0 considering the aluminum heads.

The only challenge would be mounting and routing the intercooler. Of course it might look pretty cool sitting out to the side using the OEM piping.

[geoffav]

All good as far as I'm concerned. I have this vision of a slick track-T with an Offy appearing modern 4 cylinder.

It won't look so good in a 33.

[PhyrraM]

The GM Quad-4 motor from the late 80s/90s looks an awful lot like an old Offy when the cosmetic covers are removed. In fact, the motor in the above pic looks like it is a Quad-4.

[Gollum]

PhyrraM~

I've seen those turbo and super coupes hit 11's, which considering what they weight is DANG impressive! That motor has crossed my list as an engine choice in my Z several times. The main thing that's every stopped me is that I just don't like the T5 much and I just haven't seen a ton of support out there for installing them in non-thunderbird application so I'd be out on my own. Definitely a neat motor though.

geoffav~

Yea, the look might not fit well depending on how it's done, but I think with zumies coming right out the middle of the hood, or a nice fat downpipe without a muffler snaking out the back. Obviously having a open hood area might not suit the look. I find many times though the "look" of an engine in a car is largely subject to what you expect to see there, and almost any engine can be done well enough to "look" OEM, rat rod, etc. On the other side of the same coin though, I can totally agree with anyone for an engine choice based simply on "look" if it's what does it for them.

[escape velocity]

Rather than restoring a 1970 Dodge Challenger, I bought a 2010 R/T. But the itch to build my own is still there,
Not wanting to be ex-communicated on my very post, I'll go out on a limb and see if anyone has considered putting a Telsa electric motor into the '33 Factory Five build.
Is it even possible to consider putting their 3 phase 4 pole electric motor in positioning the batteries to keep the center of gravity low?

[PhyrraM]

PhyrraM~

I've seen those turbo and super coupes hit 11's, which considering what they weight is DANG impressive! That motor has crossed my list as an engine choice in my Z several times. The main thing that's every stopped me is that I just don't like the T5 much and I just haven't seen a ton of support out there for installing them in non-thunderbird application so I'd be out on my own. Definitely a neat motor though.

Actually, according to Ford, the T5 wasn't up to the challenge of 315ft/lbs in a 3700+ car. IIRC, the 5.0 in those years was rated for 'only' 300 ft/lbs. The Supercoupes ditched the Mustang T5 and used a M5R2. It's basically a rear-shift version of an F150 transmission. It shifts like a (pretty good) truck trans too. But other than the scyncros, it's stout. However, anything that bolts to a 5.0/302/351W will work with that V6.

The 4 banger TurboCoupe is another animal entirely, but it has tons of potential too. T5 bellhousings are available for it, so any trans that uses a T5 bellhousing should be good.

[Arrowhead]

Here's a '32 w/ a Z drivetrain including the IRS.

[geoffav]

Rather than restoring a 1970 Dodge Challenger, I bought a 2010 R/T. But the itch to build my own is still there,
Not wanting to be ex-communicated on my very post, I'll go out on a limb and see if anyone has considered putting a Telsa electric motor into the '33 Factory Five build.
Is it even possible to consider putting their 3 phase 4 pole electric motor in positioning the batteries to keep the center of gravity low?

Electric has been done. Check out the vids below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YLNYMs-UCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiN4cvyambw

[Gollum]

Here's a '32 w/ a Z drivetrain including the IRS.

That's impressive. The VG30DETT is one wide beast. Few even attempt putting them into the older S30 Z cars (240z, 260z, 280z) because they're so wide. And big blocks in those engine bays look roomy!

[Kai-Rod]

I was thinking on using the turbo'd late model 4-banger Ford. At eight (8) bucks to the gallon in Germany this should make sense to anyone. However, just to keep my project easy I chose the route to use something others had used: a 4.6-2V. For now. May change later or build another one with more economy in mind.

Now as for a late model 4 banger Ford. Is there one which mounts to a normal tranny for rear wheel driver ? Guess what they have in the Ranger should work. Is this a good platform ? Is this engine similar to some FWD ones ?

Cool Thread ! Thanx.

[Olli]

I would love to see the new 2.0L EcoBoost in the '33 HR (Roadster too!). Ford Racing needs to offer a control pack for that engine.

Olli

[mske390]

These are hot rods so you should be able to put anything in it but I'm sure that others on here won't see it the same way but I'd love to see other options too like a Toyate or Lexus V-8, a BMW or Audi V-8, would love to see somehting exotic like Ferrari engine. How about the new Ford V-6 that's in the mustang making 300 hp or the EcoBoost V-6? I think this would make these much cooler than the basic Ford V-8.

[Citoriplus]

I was thinking on using the turbo'd late model 4-banger Ford. At eight (8) bucks to the gallon in Germany this should make sense to anyone. However, just to keep my project easy I chose the route to use something others had used: a 4.6-2V. For now. May change later or build another one with more economy in mind.

Now as for a late model 4 banger Ford. Is there one which mounts to a normal tranny for rear wheel driver ? Guess what they have in the Ranger should work. Is this a good platform ? Is this engine similar to some FWD ones ?

Cool Thread ! Thanx.

Not sure if you got an answer to this or not, but here's one if you didin't.
There have been two different gas burning (North American only) 4 bangers used in the Ranger & Mazda B-series pickups trucks.
The older one is the same SOHC "Lima" engine that was the basis for the T-Bird Turbo Coupe engine.
It can trace its parentage to the 2.0L in the Pinto. In Rangers it came in two sizes, from the start back in the 80's until around 1997 or so it was 2.3L at that time it got a new crank, rods and pistons to stroke it out to 2.5L.
It was phased out of production in favor of the new 2.3 Duratec in the middle of the 2001 moddel year (January 2001) and is still used in all 4 banger Rangers and Mazda B-2300's.
The older Lima engine is a very stout and reliable engine and used to be used as a basis for a class of race engines (Formula Ford I believe) and the Turbo Coupe version was supposed to put out around 250hp in stock trim.
A little interior engine work and a heavier boost can easily get you into the 350hp range.
The only down side to the newer (post 1996) engines is that they have no distributers and are setup to use 8 spark plugs.
In a 33 it probably wouldn't be much of an issue but in the Ranger the back two on the drivers side are a royal pain in the butt to get at.
The other downer is that the 2.5L version uses con rods and pistons that are made of sinthered or powdered metal.
They are not very strong and will not take kindly to any kind of harsh treatment.
The new 2.3L Duratec engine is a DOHC design and with a Turbo could easily make a reliable 300+hp engine.
Just not sure what kind of bellhousing/tranny combination will fit it.
Because I'm not sure the stock 5 speed used in the truck would not be able to handle that much power for very long.

PS The 2.3L 4 banger used in the FWD Tempo/Topaz may be the same size as the Lima Ranger truck engine.
But its useless for a 33, unless your thinking of sticking the entire drivetrain in the trunk.