THE Audio System Thread

[wleehendrick]

I wanted to start a thread specific to audio systems. This has been discussed a bit here and there, but I think the topic deserves it's own home. I know many will not be installing anything, especially the R builders, but I want a basic, good sounding stereo in my 818S. I've done some research and wanted to share my plans and spur some conversation.

Opinions on audio are varied... some people are more than satisfied by a base factory system, while others spend more than an entire 818 kit! So, first, I wanted to provide a baseline for my expectations. In my current Z, I have the following: an Alpine 9857 headunit, JL Audio 300/4 amp, XR650 components in the front doors, and a 10W0 sub in the trunk. I have door pods for the woofers and a small (~0.5 cu ft) corner loaded box for the sub. This system is far from a monster, but I think it was well thought out and reasonably priced. After tuning, it sounds good... really good.

For my 818, I want to keep in the spirit of simple and lightweight and install an appropriate system, yet still have decent sound quality in an open car. Therefore, my plans are to use a single DIN digital media headunit, such an Alpine UTE-42 or Sony DSX-200X:
90296.jpg

I have no need for navigation, DVD, phone integration, etc... Just a good sounding source from an iPod or USB stick.

For amplification, the headunit needs to be supplemented, but I don't want a big heavy multi-channel amp. I think an Alpine power pack is ideal; small and light, and an honest 90 Watts per channel when bridged into 2-channel operation:
90895.jpg

For speakers, I will be using components. Looking at the 818's door/kick panels, finding a good location for the woofer could be a challenge. Ideally, I would use 6 1/2" or 5 1/4", but may have to go with 4" woofers. I don't think this will be finalized until a get my kit and start messing around with location possibilities.

The really tricky part will be where to put (or even use) a subwoofer. I would not consider a typical large/heavy MDF sub box in an 818, but I do want something to round out the bottom end. Right now the two options I'm considering are a slim underseat unit like a Soundstream USB.8A:
90903.jpg

or a tube like a Bazooka if an adequate location can be found.

So, what are your thoughts and plans?

[RM1SepEx]

I use kenwood din receivers but have similar plans. I listen to my phones playlist or a usb stick in all of my vehicles... My experience with my 3 Miatas is that a set of rear speakers in the headrests will really help.

[Xusia]

It's great to meet someone else who thinks (in terms of audio) as I do! Great research.

My plan is similar, but if possible (read: if the sound quality is acceptable enough) I want to use a tablet as the head unit. I'll already have that for navigation and other stuff, so I might as well. I have a few tricks up my sleeve, so we'll see.

As for sub, I'm currently planning to go with an 8", most likely mounted in the, I'll call it the "front trunk" (for lack of a better word). Obviously this approach dictates a ported enclosure, which does require more space, but at this point I'm skeptical I'll be able to use that space for anything else useful. Sub will almost certainly be a JL Audio.

Another option for sub placement would be a sealed box behind the driver's seat. For most folks this would require the wookie gas tank option, so range would be affected somewhat.

Final option is up underneath the passenger side of the dash. Not sure there's room - time will tell. If there is, this would preclude the option of a glove box.

I've been a huge fan of Alpine in the past, but the most recent deck I bought (2 years ago) has left me very soured on them. And they were completely unresponsive to my complaints. So I plan on looking at other options first if I decide to go with a traditional head unit.

Anyway, good stuff! Keep the ideas coming.

[Mechie3]

Does anyone make a really simple audio system that consists of a plug for a USB/stero jack and something to drive some speakers? That's all I really want. I don't use CD's much and would run everything from my phone.

[AZPete]

I guess I'm more like Mechie3 than the guys who are talking about a premium system because I just want nice sound, not the best sound. And I want a Nav system, Ipod input, . . . . geez, is there any reason I shouldn't just make a mount for an Ipad? It would do anything an expensive car audio unit does if wired up to in-car speakers, wouldn't it? And, I could make the mount removable so I could take the Ipad with me into a restaurant to check email, etc. Stupid idea? What am I missing here?
Pete

[wleehendrick]

My experience with my 3 Miatas is that a set of rear speakers in the headrests will really help.

No insult intended, but I cringe at the thought of headrest speakers . I have a background in 2 channel hi-fi, and IMHO, stereo content should be reproduced by two speakers, in front of the listener. Rear speakers have a place in surround sound, when the content has been mixed appropriately. In an open top car, headrest speakers may help the audibility of inadequate front speakers, but they destroy the proper stereo construct, and the quality of the drivers is usually pretty poor. A good, single, set of component speakers (so the woofers and tweeters can be properly located) with adequate power can't be beat.

[rjh2pd]

I plan on just a simple head unit, with usb/aux input. where are you guys planning on putting speakers? ive thought about the humps behind the seats, doors, and top of dash (recessed), with a small underseat sub either under a seat, or under/behind the dash somewhere. Also for people talking about a tablet for the headunit and using it for navigation, wont that require another data plan through a carrier?

[wleehendrick]

It's great to meet someone else who thinks (in terms of audio) as I do! Great research.

Thanks... look forward to trading ideas.

As for sub, I'm currently planning to go with an 8", most likely mounted in the, I'll call it the "front trunk" (for lack of a better word). Obviously this approach dictates a ported enclosure, which does require more space, but at this point I'm skeptical I'll be able to use that space for anything else useful. Sub will almost certainly be a JL Audio.

Yes, the 'frunck' is an option, but I'd rather avoid a custom enclosure, as they're typically made out of MDF (heavy). If I can fit a Bazooka tube in front and port it to the passenger compartment, that might work. The cylindrical shape provides a great deal of output for the size; the long port lowers the resonance giving better low end, and weighs less than a rectangular or odd shaped box. Some monster home theater subs have been built in a cylindrical form facter; it's pretty much the best shape for an enclosed subwoofer, in terms of weight.

[wleehendrick]

Does anyone make a really simple audio system that consists of a plug for a USB/stero jack and something to drive some speakers? That's all I really want. I don't use CD's much and would run everything from my phone.

The Sony head-unit I mentioned is only a bit over $100. It provides a nice interface to the menu structure of the iPod, phone or memory stick, and a readily accessible volume control, so it's worth it to me to keep a traditional headunit in the system.

How about this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158DSX2...X.html?tp=5684

I may go with it. If you're not looking for too much output, you could use the amps in it (alhtough I'll add an external amp). Add a pir of speakers and you're all set.

[wleehendrick]

I guess I'm more like Mechie3 than the guys who are talking about a premium system because I just want nice sound, not the best sound. And I want a Nav system, Ipod input, . . . . geez, is there any reason I shouldn't just make a mount for an Ipad? It would do anything an expensive car audio unit does if wired up to in-car speakers, wouldn't it? And, I could make the mount removable so I could take the Ipad with me into a restaurant to check email, etc. Stupid idea? What am I missing here?
Pete

That could certainly work, and could sound great (with good speakers). Don't forget that you would need a power amp, like the little Alpine I mentioned.

[flytosail]

Ipod and earbuds. Still legal in NH. Alternate idea would be just to go from the Ipod to an amp to speakers. Works great in my sailboat.

[FMacAUlay3]

Why use a head unit in 2013? Everyone now just use there phones or ipods as music sources. You need to look into a signal processor such as a Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3. This rids any head unit in your dash or other locations. With this device you run all your amps to it and then have two options for music sources. These options are you can stream music from a device through Bluetooth or you can hook a iPod dock or other device dock.

[wleehendrick]

where are you guys planning on putting speakers? ive thought about the humps behind the seats, doors, and top of dash (recessed),.

It's tough to say where they'll fit. On top of the dash, you'll probably limited to 3-4" drivers. My plan is to use component speakers and mount the crossovers in the center console. I'll play around with tweeter location for the best imaging, either on top of the dash, or the upper/forward corners of the door panels. The woofers will be tricky, since the lower/forward corner of the door panel is blocked by a frame member:

IMG_0037.JPG

I hope to find a good location for a 5 1/4" woofer, but I may have to make a 'pod' for it. I have these door pods in my Z:

Door+pods+both640.jpg

and they image great with the tweeters in the sail panels. But this spot isn't an option in the 818. Perhaps a kick panel, but this would require some fabrication, and may intrude too much in the footwell.

I would not mount them on the humps, my Z has rear speakers in a similar location, and I simply don't understand why people bother upgrading them like this:

350zsub1.jpg

The acoustics in this location (behind the seat head-rest) are horrible. I left my factory speakers in place and don't use them. As I mentioned before, the best results come from one decent pair of speakers mounted in front of you.

with a small underseat sub either under a seat, or under/behind the dash somewhere.

That's my plan as well, just don't know where what will fit yet.

[wleehendrick]

Why use a head unit in 2013? Everyone now just use there phones or ipods as music sources. You need to look into a signal processor such as a Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3.

Alternate idea would be just to go from the Ipod to an amp to speakers. Works great in my sailboat.

I don't disagree, and call me a Luddite, but I still want a head unit!

Even though 100% of my listening is from an iPod or USB stick, and I use an outboard amp. The headunit provides a nice control panel for volume and music selection. That's worth $120 to me!

[rjh2pd]

I hope to find a good location for a 5 1/4" woofer, but I may have to make a 'pod' for it. I have these door pods in my Z:

Door+pods+both640.jpg

It looks like there is a spot for it here without taking up much if any of the leg room.
IMG_0037.JPG
So the speakers behind the headrest wont sound very good? The reason i brought it up was because i rode in a miata that had some there and it seemed like it was a good idea, but i don't have any idea about the quality.

[RM1SepEx]

Why have a head unit? Can you say... sports, news etc...

I'm old school and having a radio sometimes is good. The majority of the time its MP3, 4 files etc... Its nice to have more than 1 source

As far as headrest speakers, you use them to fill in the holes caused by wind noise... its easy to balance the f/r speakers to make them a nice subtle filler in the music\

I'm pretty sure my kenwood will be powerful enough, I have 3 in Miatas with the same wind noise issues

besides I'm 54 & I don't crank it like I used to... No need to spend more than $400 or so to get a pretty good sounding setup. Besides a bunch of time will be spent with it off to hear the engine!

[wleehendrick]

It looks like there is a spot for it here without taking up much if any of the leg room.

Agreed, that's the location I referred to for putting in a kick panel. I'll require a little fab work, but should sound good if it fits.

So the speakers behind the headrest wont sound very good? The reason i brought it up was because i rode in a miata that had some there and it seemed like it was a good idea, but i don't have any idea about the quality.

Not in my opinion, for several reasons... First of which is that two channel stereo is mixed and meant to be heard with speakers placed in front of you. If background music is all you're after, placement isn't critical, but I'm a bit of a purist! Even neglecting the stereo image, high frequencies are line-of-site and are blocked by the headrest; you'll have no treble. In addition, your pinna (outer ear) colors the sound, and stereo is mixed assuming the speakers are in front of you (good synthesized surround systems adjust the frequency response of the rear channels due to this effect; it's also one of the acoustic effects your brain uses to localize sound)

[wleehendrick]

Why have a head unit? Can you say... sports, news etc...

I'm old school and having a radio sometimes is good. The majority of the time its MP3, 4 files etc... Its nice to have more than 1 source

Agreed, that's why I want a head unit. If you don't need a large screen or disc player, you can get a lot of functionality pretty cheap from an 'entry level' headunit.

As far as headrest speakers, you use them to fill in the holes caused by wind noise... its easy to balance the f/r speakers to make them a nice subtle filler in the music\

For the reason's I've mentioned, two good speakers up front with more power is my preferred solution, but if you have good experience with headrest speakers, go for it! (as long as they're stereo speakers in each headrest, not one behind each seat, ugh).

No need to spend more than $400 or so to get a pretty good sounding setup.

I'm targeting around $400 (before a sub-woofer); that should be plenty for a good sounding 2-channel system.

Besides a bunch of time will be spent with it off to hear the engine!

Yup... no music sounds as sweet as a perfectly executed heel-and-toe downshift!

[nikbrewer]

If I was going to build a light weight system for the 818, this is what I would use

Input - Use phone with blue tooth via belkin Bluetooth adapter http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...G&A=details&Q= 25$ 0 LBS
Speaker Amp - Rockford fosgate PBR300.2 2 ch amp http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-PBR300X2.html 150$ 2.5 LBS
Sub Amp - Rockford Fosgate PBR300.1 1 ch amp http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...-PBR300X1.html 150$ 2.5 LBS
Speakers - Rockford Fosgate T252s 5.25" components http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...te-T252-S.html 170$ 5 LBS
Sub - MB Quart RPL 204 8" shallow mount sub http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...rt-RLP204.html 60$ 5 LBS
Sub Box - custom .3 cubic feet box built from 5/8" Baltic Birch plywood 50$ 5 LBS

Total 605$ 20 LBS

[RM1SepEx]

yes headrest speakers must be left and right in each headrest. A ton of the music gets lost in the open air if you only have speakers below the door line of the car... tweeters in the windshield supports can help fill in the soundfield

As far as music is mixed for stereo... an open car is an abomination sonic wise... best we can do is attempt to get some sort of an environment to capture the music. It will never be any sort of a suitable "space" like you can get in a padded, closed room or a car.

[Xusia]

I too am in the 2 good, well powered speakers up front camp. I think that will be plenty and sound good. I also want a sub, which is going to mean a total cost of more than $400. I'm kind of a power whore too, so there's a good chance I'll spend $400 on just the amp.

Does anyone make a really simple audio system that consists of a plug for a USB/stero jack and something to drive some speakers? That's all I really want. I don't use CD's much and would run everything from my phone.

As was stated, a cheap head unit (a.k.a. a stereo) is what does that function. I've seen them for less than $50.

. . . . geez, is there any reason I shouldn't just make a mount for an Ipad? It would do anything an expensive car audio unit does if wired up to in-car speakers, wouldn't it? And, I could make the mount removable so I could take the Ipad with me into a restaurant to check email, etc. Stupid idea? What am I missing here?
Pete

IMO, not a stupid idea at all. This is my plan. I would only go with a traditional stereo if the sound quality isn't good enough (NOTE: I'm a bit of an audio snob, so what doesn't pass muster for me, might be perfectly fine for others! LOL). The main issue is converting the headphone output to amplifier input (using a preamp). Regardless of what I win up doing in this area, it WILL be posted in my build thread.

Also for people talking about a tablet for the headunit and using it for navigation, wont that require another data plan through a carrier?

Not at all. None of my tablets have data plans and they all work just fine! I would make it removable, but for normal updates I can get wi-fi in the driveway. I can also remove the SD Card and update the music. If I wanted to listen to youtube or Pandora on the road, I can use my phone as a hot spot. Google maps can cache data, so no worries there either. Also, for those that don't know, Android tablets and phone have FM radio capability as well. It really does do all the things I'd need, it's big (navigation), touchscreen, etc. What more is there to want, really?

Why use a head unit in 2013? Everyone now just use there phones or ipods as music sources. You need to look into a signal processor such as a Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.3. This rids any head unit in your dash or other locations. With this device you run all your amps to it and then have two options for music sources. These options are you can stream music from a device through Bluetooth or you can hook a iPod dock or other device dock.

The 3sixty.3 is useful for multiple physical sources or you really don't want something in your dash. But I just can't see too many people really needing that. It's expensive too. For half the price you can get a decent head unit. For the full price you can get a double-din head unit with nav. All with multi-source capability, bluetooth streaming, iPod connectors, etc.

Why have a head unit? Can you say... sports, news etc...

See above. Tablets can do all those things. Well, not Ipads (sorry Apple fans...), but any decent tablet (Ha! <-- JOKE people!). AM radio or cassette tape is about all they can't do. I mean, of course they can't play a physical CD, but who can't or doesn't rip their music to an electronic device these days anyway?


--------------------
WHEW! That was a LOT of responses!

[wleehendrick]

yes headrest speakers must be left and right in each headrest. A ton of the music gets lost in the open air if you only have speakers below the door line of the car... tweeters in the windshield supports can help fill in the soundfield

As far as music is mixed for stereo... an open car is an abomination sonic wise... best we can do is attempt to get some sort of an environment to capture the music. It will never be any sort of a suitable "space" like you can get in a padded, closed room or a car.

Actually, an open car is a better environment for accurate music reproduction than a closed car (at least standing still). A closed car, with more reflective surfaces near the speakers and your ear is just about the worst acoustic environment due the all the near reflections. Here's a graphic which shows the effect of reflections as a function of time delay and relative intensity:

Acoustic Reflections.jpg

In a small space, all the reflections do is create tonal changes and image shift. An open car avoids much of this... The music 'lost in the open air' is a a good thing. Concerts halls use reflected sound to create ambiance, but this only works in a large space (those 'useful reflections' need time delay from a long propagation distance) Ever see a recording studio? The heavy use of open-cell acoustic foam on the walls is used to absorb sound and reduce unwanted reflections.

A topless car has this advantage for free. The flip-side however, is without the reflected sound, you have to provide more power (and need more robust speakers to handle it) since you predominately only hear the direct sound from your speakers. Once at high speed, with a greater noise floor from wind and road noise, however, you need even more power to overcome the ambient noise, and at some point the noise floor is simply too high for good music reproduction. But at that point, your attention should be on your driving!

Now I understand why you've had good luck with headrest speakers in your Miatas... The location so close to the ear provides an very efficient path for nearly all direct sound, letting you get decent volume without a huge amount of power. You can get a decent stereo effect with modest components.

The disadvantage of headrest speakers, however, is the size and location. The don't image well, being behind your ears, and small (3") full-range drivers are incapable of producing any real bass or upper treble. Even with a subwoofer taking over the low bass (<100Hz), there will be a hole in the frequency response in the mid bass. This the issue that plagues small sub/satellite home theater systems like Bose.

All that being said, if you're not a super critical listener like Xusia and I, this is certainly a viable solution.

However, for the most accurate reproduction, a quality component system with the woofer and tweeter properly located in front with plenty of power (and supplemented with a sub, of course) will give the best results.


P.S. Happy 4th, everyone!

[Turboguy]

For my sound system, I'm just gonna throw an EZ30 in the trunk.

[bnr32jason]

For my sound system, I'm just gonna throw an EZ30 in the trunk.

I've been going back and forth with this. As great as an EZ30 (or even an EJ20/25) will sound, if I decide to make the 818 a daily driver (which may very well happen) I'm going to have to have some kind of audio system.

I've considered everything from a simple portable bluetooth speaker sitting in the passenger seat all the way to actual "systems" like these guys are discussing.I'm not overly concerned with weight but also not looking for a system that's going to rattle body panels either. Just something basic.

[RM1SepEx]

Actually, an open car is a better environment for accurate music reproduction than a closed car (at least standing still).

IMNSHO Too much theory, no practical application. A car is to be driven, add 50-60 mph wind and an open car is near impossible acoustically. No windows, absolute worst case scenario.

I have no plans to sit in my parked 818 and listen to music while seated in it. That is far outside of its design parameters. I just want to be able to listen to my mp3s or a ball game while traveling back roads, a sportsbike with 4 wheels.

In a closed car a system can be designed with soft surfaces and electronically manipulated to form a very good sound stage for music, Many high end auto mfg partner with "experts" such as Bose or Altec Lansing, JBL for this purpose

I do admit my audiophile phase has gone by...

[wleehendrick]

IMNSHO Too much theory, no practical application. A car is to be driven, add 50-60 mph wind and an open car is near impossible acoustically. No windows, absolute worst case scenario.

Well the theory has to be the starting point... We also have a convertible, so I'm all too familiar with wind/road noise in a open car. From my experience, a good stereo is quite effective in an open car on surface streets and back roads up 50/60mph, but I agree that on the freeway with the windows down at 70+ with tire noise from adjacent vehicles the noise floor is unmanageable.

I have no plans to sit in my parked 818 and listen to music while seated in it. That is far outside of its design parameters. I just want to be able to listen to my mp3s or a ball game while traveling back roads, a sportsbike with 4 wheels.D

I agree... but on my daily commute (which I plan to use my 818 for part-time), I have plenty of time to enjoy some good sound. That's what I'm planning the system for.

In a closed car a system can be designed with soft surfaces and electronically manipulated to form a very good sound stage for music, Many high end auto mfg partner with "experts" such as Bose or Altec Lansing, JBL for this purpose

A closed car is quieter, yes, but all that glass is the problem, no amount of equalization can counter the near field reflections; it really is the worst acoustic environment possible and good speaker placement is the best you can do to mitigate it. It astounds me how bad some of the 'premium' automotive audio systems actually are. The Harmon Kardon system in our 135i vert is pretty good, worth the $800 premium. The B&O in lower Audi's is so-so, not worth the upgrade IMO, but the premium B&O system in the S-class Benz that I heard was quite impressive. Every JBL system I've heard is all 'boom and sizzle' (over accentuated mid-bass and treble), and the Bose systems in Nissan/Infinity are absolutely horrid.

I hope I don't come off as argumentative or elitist, it's just that I'm confident that a well chosen, installed, and tuned system in an 818 can sound great (at low - moderate speeds), and it doesn't have to cost a fortune (I'll probably only spend ~$600).

[RM1SepEx]

Now I grew up in the 70's... virtually all classis rock albums were mixed using JBL 4311B studio monitors... that's the sound I look for and I actually still use my JBL L36 speakers at home... :-)

I hate the Bose sound, it is all smoke and mirror equalization of multiple small drivers, reflective wave response etc...

My point is that like the rest of the 818 these cars are but a canvas for each owner's creativity and needs...

I tried to live with just an amplifier and stereo speakers in my electric reverse trike... I couldn't live without the radio and with 10 cars I had to standardize on a single family of receivers or I'd never keep the buttons straight. For $150-200 I can get a nice, capable receiver. I refuse to use GPS etc and have little use for a smart phone, tablet etc... My son couldn't live without one!

To each their own... We all need to understand that an open roadster has severe acoustic limitations. I think that it is however safe to assume that we are building these cars nwith the stereo beinga rather minor part of its design parameters with perhaps an all out snow car being the sole exception.

I plan on driving mine!

[wleehendrick]

Now I grew up in the 70's... virtually all classis rock albums were mixed using JBL 4311B studio monitors... that's the sound I look for and I actually still use my JBL L36 speakers at home... :-)

I hate the Bose sound, it is all smoke and mirror equalization of multiple small drivers, reflective wave response etc...

No knock on JBL in general... their pro and vintage stuff is great. When it comes to automotive systems, however, I'm just shocked at what some well respected brands will put their name on.

And I completely agree with you on Bose... trying to circumvent the laws of physics with heavy equalization (and marketing).

To each their own... We all need to understand that an open roadster has severe acoustic limitations. I think that it is however safe to assume that we are building these cars nwith the stereo beinga rather minor part of its design parameters with perhaps an all out snow car being the sole exception.

I plan on driving mine!

I think we're really of similar opinions,... if you look at my original post, you see that I'm planning a fairly simple system, and it's a small part of my budget . I think it would be silly to put a big heavy system the an 818, it's contrary to the spirit of the car.

That being said, the only significant acoustic issue to deal with is a high noise floor... and IMHO, you can overcome that at moderate speeds (where I spend a good deal of my commute) with quality speakers with adequate power (which can be compact and affordable).

P.S. Hope the eye's healing up!

[RM1SepEx]

got great news on the eye Wednesday... healing nicely but I'm still dealing with the fluorocarbon fluid and gas that they filled my eye with during the operation. it should be just getting cleared up with new fluid by kit pickup the end of the month! Spending more than 50% of my time laying on my left side and watching Netflix

worked with my daughter this AM to fix the steering bushing in my lawn and garden tractor... I had to borrow her eyes and hands... no depth perception and I'm not driving yet. She needed the tractor to mow neighborhood lawns for $20/hr....

Nice to see her get her hands dirty and to give her a lesson on oilite bushings! This is metal, why does it feel greasy? LOL

[305mouse]

I know it's off topic but I'm glad your eye is healing well. I can't imagine going through all that.

[metalmaker12]

got great news on the eye Wednesday... healing nicely but I'm still dealing with the fluorocarbon fluid and gas that they filled my eye with during the operation. it should be just getting cleared up with new fluid by kit pickup the end of the month! Spending more than 50% of my time laying on my left side and watching Netflix

worked with my daughter this AM to fix the steering bushing in my lawn and garden tractor... I had to borrow her eyes and hands... no depth perception and I'm not driving yet. She needed the tractor to mow neighborhood lawns for $20/hr....

Nice to see her get her hands dirty and to give her a lesson on oilite bushings! This is metal, why does it feel greasy? LOL

Your a trooper bro, good for you, I wish I had more time, I would help you out

[RM1SepEx]

2nd eye with detached retina, the first one was ripped about 150 degrees around the perimeter and flapping around in my vision... This one wasn't so detached

Compared to my MS symptoms (numb from the chest down, pain everywhere, etc... for 22 years...) the eye is easy! You just have to put it all in perspective vs the journey that is life...

[Xusia]

I hate the Bose sound...

That's probably because it's crap.

[wleehendrick]

That's probably because it's crap.

No highs, no lows, must be Bose!

OK, enough Bose-bashing... we might offend someone . Let's talk about real gear.

[Flying Low]

Ok here are some thoughts for everyone from a fellow audiophile... I built my own home subwoofer and some other mid/high speakers for the house and hope to put in an equally kick but system in the 818. Maybe skip the head unit entirely and run directly from your mp3 device that also plays radio direct to the speakers? Or put in a car PC that has all your music collection? You could hook up all sorts of other sensors and other cool electronics to this which would be an advantage.

Don't do MDF, instead go the plexiglass route or actually use the aluminum panels themselves for the foundation of the sub box...not sure if there are any areas to do this, but something to think about. Will likely have to fill the box with poly fill to cut down on potential rattle or stiffen up the aluminum. Then it is also doing dual purpose in the car!

Also it seems like those shallow mount subs may be the way to go... I haven't analyzed them to come up with a winner, but this seems like a good approach...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=267-6919
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=297-297

Another approach would be to go to the smaller array of speakers (many acting as one).
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-919

Richard

[Silvertop]

Now I grew up in the 70's... virtually all classis rock albums were mixed using JBL 4311B studio monitors... that's the sound I look for and I actually still use my JBL L36 speakers at home... :-)

That's interesting. I bought a pair of L26's (similar to your L36's, but 2-way) in about 1975. Although all of my other audio components were changed out long ago, my old JBL's still function as the core front channels of my home stereo and 5.1 Home Theater System. They just sound better than most affordable new stuff, at least to my ear.

I'm not at all sold on the newer JBL's (at least the consumer grade stuff). OK but kind of ordinary, IMO.

This is an interesting thread. I plan to put in a 2 channel stereo in my 818 as well. Nothing too fancy. A decently-powered very good quality head unit with a built in CD player and a radio, and a pair of high quality 5 1/4" or slightly larger speakers. No subwoofer, probably no preamp. It had not occurred to me that speaker placement would be that critical to getting reasonable sound at highway speeds due to wind noise issues. I'll need to do more research. Keep talking, guys............!

[RM1SepEx]

I bought my L36's in 1977... I've re-coned the woofers but they still sound great. They have nice light oak cabinets and orange grills. I've gone through so many other audio pieces too. The Lion King movie cost me a set of woofers due to the opening elephant scene. The woofers jumped right out of the voice coils... I had to add a KLH subwoofer to protect my woofers from deep bass in movies.

[NonProfit]

RM1SepEx, hope that eye is getting better!

I'd encourage everyone who is building a system to consider using marine grade components. They will deal with the moisture better than standard equipment might.

And I know that Bose has taken some heat in this thread (and rightly so) but I still like the idea of mounting some 151's vertically and letting them define the profile of the dash.

[ehansen007]

Having gone through this open air experiment with the hot rod, putting the sub anywhere outside the cabin was useless. The 818 trunk is fairly close and you could run some ports into the cabin. In the hot rod, Strangely enough I was able to fit an 8" inch bazooka under the passenger side dash and it was awesome. With the V8 and the wind noise it took about 700W to be able to listen to anything on the freeway with the sub and two kicker coax 6" in the lower door. I think the kick panel/under dash sub box will be your best bet for anything in the sub category but the doors are also pretty cavernous so you you might be able to get frequencies as low as 100Hz to work there with the right setup and insulation. Just my experience.

[Silvertop]

I bought my L36's in 1977... I've re-coned the woofers but they still sound great. They have nice light oak cabinets and orange grills. I've gone through so many other audio pieces too. The Lion King movie cost me a set of woofers due to the opening elephant scene. The woofers jumped right out of the voice coils... I had to add a KLH subwoofer to protect my woofers from deep bass in movies.

My L26's are also light oak, but with brown grilles. I remember the orange ones, though. They were available on L26's also. My woofers were also rebuilt about 15 years ago by a local shop that specializes in reworking old JBL's. Tweeters are original. I have a 12 inch Polk Audio Subwoofer providing the thunder for my movies.