Wind Tunnel Testing - 818

[Dave Smith]

The crew is down in Charlotte today with the 818R and the 818S for a full day of wind tunnel testing. The goal is to qualify the aero performance of the front splitter, optimize rear diffuser angle, and validate combinations (rear spoiler and rear wing). Both cars are running carbon side skirts (although it looks like the aero benefit is next to zero - but they do look really cool). The number of variables to be tested merits a full day, but when we're done, we'll have drag and down force numbers complete for the street car at street ride height and the race car focusing on down force. More news later, but thought you guys would like the pics.



The aero package is really important to the 818 program since down force and drag in this design can render a tremendous performance difference and we also want to make sure the aero parts we are selling are validated to produce balanced (safe) down force. We'll publish the optimized data early next week.

[Frank818]

Nice!!!

Thanks Dave!

[longislandwrx]

Talk about signing on at the right time! Looks awesome, looking forward to looking at the rear diffuser. Has it been decided yet whether the diffuser will be CF or aluminum yet?

[Mechie3]

My order form says "#80496: 818 Carbon Fiber rear diffuser -- $275"




Dave,
If you optimize for the S and the R, does that mean the diffuser/splitter are different from the S to R, or just the angles of attack. Obviously if you optimize for either one, and just swap to the other, you lose balance with/without the wing (and windshield).

Nice pics too. It's cool to see a company actually validate things instead of pushing marketing speak "OMG this diffuser looks so hot it totally has to work and therefore you need it!!". ha!

[doofoo]

Woot! Looks great!

[Frank818]

Now if they optimize the rear diffuser with the front splitter, that makes it less advantageous to order only one of the 2. It's a pair.

Plus, it makes it harder to use a different rear diffuser (like Difflow.com) if it's not optimized, you may lose balance.
Something to think about...

[longislandwrx]

My order form says "#80496: 818 Carbon Fiber rear diffuser -- $275"

Yeah mine too, but I know they have had issues with CF production, and a lip and side skirts are a cakewalk compared to making a diffuser.
I'll believe it when I hear it from Dave or see a production part.

[Dave Smith]

The new front splitter is the same on both S and R models. Until the guys are done testing the different variations of rear spoiler/rear wing combinations (the rear spoiler is a new part that we haven't run where as the wing is known), I won't be able to answer your question on the rear diffuser angle and part, but it looks like it will be the same part. Until I have data, there is not much else I can tell you other than showing these cool pictures, but make no mistake, the wind tunnel testing is part of a larger program and commitment to making sure this car is done right. The cool thing is that on Friday we're running Ultimate Track Car Challenge at VIR, and we will be the first guys of many to benefit from the data.

[gwader]

So cool!

[Mike N]

Way cool and a significant $ investment by FFR, the Aerodyn A2 tunnel is not cheap. Of course it's just around the corner from my house

[Mechie3]

Way cool and a significant $ investment by FFR, the Aerodyn A2 tunnel is not cheap. Of course it's just around the corner from my house

What are you doing sitting at your computer then?

[BipDBo]

What wind speeds were you able to test at?

Regarding the wing for the 818s, here's my 2 cents (which is probably more than it's worth).
If you're putting a wing on an 818S you're probably doing so for one of two reasons:
* It's for show. Unless you're really speeding, it won't make much difference.
* You plan to also track the car. In this case, you may want to consider removing the windshield, at least on track day. In this case, the overall aerodynamics of the car, and therefore, optimal wing angle should be practically identical to the 818R. You'll also have an 818 that's probably a little but less than 818kg.

[THE ITALIAN]

Pretty interesting.
Now, how about some aero parts that totally screw up the air BEHIND the car to slow down the better driver trying to pass?

[Frank818]

What are you doing sitting at your computer then?

That's from where he controls the fans.

[Frank818]

What wind speeds were you able to test at?

Regarding the wing for the 818s, here's my 2 cents (which is probably more than it's worth).
If you're putting a wing on an 818S you're probably doing so for one of two reasons:
* It's for show. Unless you're really speeding, it won't make much difference.
* You plan to also track the car. In this case, you may want to consider removing the windshield, at least on track day. In this case, the overall aerodynamics of the car, and therefore, optimal wing angle should be practically identical to the 818R. You'll also have an 818 that's probably a little but less than 818kg.

How about a third reason that would be

* To improve overall aerodynamics by reducing drag while adding downforce?

[skullandbones]

That's too bad that the CF side panels didn't make a difference but that could also be good if that indicates the basic design was already optimized at those locations. So you will have the data to optimize your wings and diffuser before VIR. That's fantastic! Can't wait to see the results of that. Thanks, WEK.

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

Pretty interesting.
Now, how about some aero parts that totally screw up the air BEHIND the car to slow down the better driver trying to pass?

Good one!

[BipDBo]

That's too bad that the CF side panels didn't make a difference

To me, it's a great thing. It just means not to order them. It might not make much of a difference, but that makes the car a little bit cheaper and a little bit lighter.

[Mike N]

What are you doing sitting at your computer then?

Some of us have to work for a living.

The A2 is their small tunnel, their larger one has a moving floor and would likely be more accurate for evaluating things like the splitter and side skirts. But of course it's even more $$.

I'm just hugely impressed that FFR is spending this kind of money to build a truly well sorted car out of the box. Kudos to Dave and the team.

[Mechie3]

Some of us have to work for a living.

Yeah...I'm one of those people. Thus, why I post all day.

[Frank818]

Yeah...I'm one of those people. Thus, why I post all day.

Well count me in then.

[Silvertop]

The new front splitter is the same on both S and R models. Until the guys are done testing the different variations of rear spoiler/rear wing combinations (the rear spoiler is a new part that we haven't run where as the wing is known), I won't be able to answer your question on the rear diffuser angle and part, but it looks like it will be the same part. Until I have data, there is not much else I can tell you other than showing these cool pictures, but make no mistake, the wind tunnel testing is part of a larger program and commitment to making sure this car is done right. The cool thing is that on Friday we're running Ultimate Track Car Challenge at VIR, and we will be the first guys of many to benefit from the data.

Is the new spoiler mounted to the rear of the 818S in the wind tunnel picture above? I think I see SOMETHING back there....... And that might be something I'd be interested in -- especially if it actually DOES something!

[Dave Smith]

Yes, the street car was tested with a new rear spoiler design that looks pretty good (you can sorta see a tad of it on the white 818S, its carbon, full width and mounts to the top of the rear lip). The guys reported that the testing all went very well and we should have final photos, specs, data and details on the CF aero parts in a few days.

This is a big week for the 818 development team as we wanted to qualify the final aero parts (done), next the team is headed to VIR for the Friday UTCC races where the downforce optimization data will be put to good use on the track against DP cars, ACR Vipers, Vettes, and a tremendously fast field of top race cars in a truly "David vs. Goliath" endeavor. The 818R now has 340 rwhp and weighs in a good amount under 2000 lbs. We are also running full slicks and putting go-fast FFR Nats Champ driver J. George behind the wheel.

The week of 818 fun concludes with the 818S, which is still the same weight as from Open House reveal (1826 lbs I think) and will be driven/tested on Friday and Saturday by another major Automobile magazine, rounding out both cars tested by major press. Out back, the crew is doing a FANTASTIC job of production ramp-up. We are currently at 3 per week and will be building the first 818R this week (tomorrow and Friday) for customer B. Stuke. Wayne Presley at VCP's and Erik Treves are going fast on their builds and giving hugely valuable feedback to the engineering team for immediate updates to the production cars in a way I've never seen at FFR where the engineers, guys in production, and office tech crew are hyper-attentive to any build issues.

The next months will see the soft top design, further rapid integration of build ideas and refinements to the manuf process and especially chassis assembly area that takes a lot of time currently.

Tons of debate and work on the production schedule, hot list and longer term production plan that is focused on quality and on making sure the 818 hits the streets the right way. Hopefully you guys can appreciate the tremendous focus on this effort that the whole team has committed to. Ive never seen the company work so well together, overcome challenges so easily, and communicate internally so clearly and efficiently. It is a fun and exciting time and I trust you all can cut me and the team some slack for not having as much time as we'd like to communicate everything! More to come shortly.

[Frank818]

That is some nice updates, Dave.

Opens up the path for so many other questions, but I will keep them inside me for now while you focus on your current challenges.

[bstuke]

Please don't wreck my 818R....

Off to Cozumel to video Whale Sharks, Manta Rays and such. Looking forward to the following week..

[AZPete]

TGIFFFR ............Thank God I Found Factory Five Racing

(otherwise I'd be watching Big Brother and feeling worthless)

[bbjones121]

Thanks Dave. Awesome updates.

I am trying to find my donor for my 30th birthday coming up at the end of the year.

[Darkpiggy's dad]

I'm hoping the data you release will show either wing or spoiler on each version, but I'll be really happy with any data you publish from the wind tunnel. This project is so cool. Thanks.

[shinn497]

Dave,

Have you guys done and CFD modeling of the chassis before testing it or is it all empirical? I think I saw something akin to that on one of your promo vids.

With that said I can't wait to hear more about both testing and application off the chassis. Personally, I would rather have a street version without a rear wing. I've always been in the camp of modesty + performance. I really like that this car, despite its affordable price tag, has some serious tech behind it. That is 'murican ingenuity at its finest!

[Xusia]

Thanks for the updates Dave - they are appreciated! VERY much!! I can't wait to see & read more.

And of course, take delivery of my kit!

[NicksPapaw]

Thie commitment to excellence is why Factory Five Racing is the best. For some of the newer guys on here they have been bent out of shape about lack of wipers and such, you can now see the bigger picture. Remember, this was a drawing on a bar napkin just a couple of years ago. Look how far they have come since then. And at an affordable price point. Dave, thanks for the update and keep up the great work.

[THE ITALIAN]

"FFR Nats Champ driver J. George behind the wheel."
I hope John Kicks their butts all over the road, that will raise some eyebrows.

[WIS89]

"FFR Nats Champ driver J. George behind the wheel."
I hope John Kicks their butts all over the road, that will raise some eyebrows.

I too hope that FFR shows really well and raises some eyebrows! It would be great to prove what most of us already know--- FFR is an outstanding company producing kits to exceed our dreams while also having a blast and turning heads wherever they go! I hope the trip to VIR exceeds all of our expectations as well, and some folks get their eyes opened to what FFR is capable of bringing to market. Go get 'em guys!

Regards,

Steve

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Thanks Dave!

[Dave Smith]

I know that Jeremy and the engineering guys did flow analysis on the body with Solidworks software and as good as Solidworks is (exceptional!), there is absolutely nothing that can replace the honest, qualified feedback from a guy like John George as he removes his helmet and starts to speak about the last 12 laps at speed. The windtunnel helps tremendously and the cost is very much worth it. Wipers will happen of course, but what you pointed out is so true, the scope of the project and the timing of each and every item is akin to playing chess where there are a TON of moves and each one important, but, for those student of classic "Project Management" the pert chart is massive and all of the individual tasks needed are along a planned path, some items, like the optional rear spoiler or the full spread of optional seats (each one installed and tested) were not part of the critical path up front... Others like say the testing of the chassis in the very early days of the project or the suspension geometry and parts, well those things had to be addressed along a critical path. Every item is important in their own contribution to the satisfaction of the design goals. Even something as seemingly small as outsourcing the fastener packaging into assemblies (new for us) matters. The car and plan naturally evolves thru the development process. My particular skill set here at FFR is in coordinating the project against the backdrop of ALL the things we have to do each day. If that isnt done right you end up making promises that dont happen and failing on timetables as a habit, rather than an exception.

At the most basic level I have to be responsible for every single part, person, decision and action of the company... While at the same time, I have to keep the big goals in mind and make sure we are making progress every day on those and recognize when we are and when we are not.

I have some very simple rules that are in my head every minute of every day and they form the foundation of every decision I make.

Are we doing something better every day?

Does every person in the company understand that the person/(s) who walks in the front door or calls on the phone, or emails is our boss and everythuing we do is ONLY because of their consent and support?

Is the tactical plan always supporting our strategic plan?

Is our strategic plan always always always is guided by our philosophy?

Is our philosophy understood in all of our actions? Are we making a difference in peoples lives? Are we contributing to our community? Is our work a perfect mirror of our love. Are our personal lives in concert with our professional lives?

A customer Erik Treves sent me a TED video link on companies and three circles of What (what a company makes), How (the unique ways the company makes these things to survive and flourish) and the WHY. I watched with wonder how the speaker so perfectly described Factory Five Racing... We start with the WHY. We definitely have to master the How and the What of our products and business, but undertsanding that we build something that carries a human soul. Understanding that we build things beyond physical parts... understanding that we build relationships with our cars. That we build community with our parts. That we build careers with our company and partnerships with our suppliers. Understanding that while PROFIT is important, it is NOT THE GOAL, rather the result of reaching our goals if they are right and well considered.

I remember when I graduated with my degree in Philosophy, wondering how it would ever help me in life. I did not, at the time, ever think that it would be absolutely central to building cars...

Too much caffeine this morning!

[flytosail]

Thanks again for all of your hard work in making the 818 into what it is today and what it will be for all of us. Someone here has a signature line about the fact that you never see a motorcycle outside a psychiatrist's office. I don't think you will see any 818s there either.

[Frank818]

That is some nice speech Dave!
I do understand the challenges or project management as I am in every day!
I have a better understanding of your future goals to come with the 818 and pleased to hear (read) all that!

Keep it up!

[THE ITALIAN]

I think the Philosophy that FFR has continued is that you have not lost that idea, that each and every frame that goes out the door is one project for that one person and most importantly, that one person's focus as a hobby and that could actually be his/hers one and only EVER large project.
Once a company loses that idea, it is no longer the FFR community.

I wish our country was run like FFR

[Martin]

Looking at the work that has gone into the 818 suspension tuning, the wind tunnel testing, the engine upgrades and the driver (John George) and slick tyres, I have a funny feeling that eye brows won't be raised, they'll be scorched off.

Dave talks about community all the time and I for one feel like I am part of it (albeit a very, very long way away from it).

Next time I have a beer, I'll raise a toast to FFR.

Good luck John - hope you post up another video with all of your telemetry data and video overlays. I watch every one of them that you post up.

Martin

[Xusia]

Dave, VERY good stuff. I love your outlook on running the company, goals, philosophy, etc. I wish I could work at FFR (seriously), but our family is committed to the area we live in. Keep up the good work.