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Thread: King's MK4 Coyote Build

  1. #121
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    You didn't post any pics of the seat in its final location. I hope it's over far enough against the tunnel and at the right angle so you won't have interference from the body at the top corner by the door latch. It's a tight fit. I personally recommend not locating the seats until the body is in place. I did my Mk4 go-kart with the seats loose. Safety police wouldn't be happy, but I just putted up and down a side street in my sub and never went over 20 mph.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  2. #122
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    You didn't post any pics of the seat in its final location. I hope it's over far enough against the tunnel and at the right angle so you won't have interference from the body at the top corner by the door latch. It's a tight fit. I personally recommend not locating the seats until the body is in place. I did my Mk4 go-kart with the seats loose. Safety police wouldn't be happy, but I just putted up and down a side street in my sub and never went over 20 mph.
    Thanks Edward for the heads up there. I have the driver's door mounted and the seat is biased toward the tunnel. As a reference it is about an inch closer to the inboard seat harness mount than the other. The post had the ten picture limit so the mounted picture didn't get in. Hopefully I won't have to slot any holes later.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  3. #123
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
    Now I will hang side pipes so I can have that Go-Kart experience.
    Alright!
    As you know, video is a must.
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C, LS3 525, Mendeola SDR5,

  4. #124
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    Looking forward to how the go-kart goes.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  5. #125
    2bking's Avatar
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    First Go-Kart

    Well the day came when there was just nothing keeping me from sliding into the seat and cranking it up for the first short trip. As with the first start, it was non eventful but very satisfying. I finished installing the side pipes, cleaned out the trunk area and interior, and put it on the floor. It has had a few more pounds added to it since the ride height was set so I adjusted the springs to get a 4.5" ride height at all four corners. A friend had come over to see the event so I handed him my phone to record it.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/u473bjq1y7...05.40.mp4?dl=0

    It was very smooth with a low throaty rumble but not loud and disturbing as I had expected. Clutch was smooth, brakes good, and I was able to get the ABS to actuate on the gravel. This was a good day- nothing was added to my to-do list.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  6. #126
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    Wow! Terrific!!! But, you got the tires all dirty.
    Its great that the ABS worked when you pulled back in the first trip.
    I was pleasantly surprised by the hearty - but not annoying - sound of the Coyote, too; the 302HO in my MKII was just too loud.
    Never thought about putting the door on; great idea.

    Cheers...and congrats re nothing added to the list.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  7. #127
    Senior Member JimiD's Avatar
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    congrats King!
    Delivered 11/12/11
    2014 small fall cruise http://youtu.be/fwk0TXXZGEU
    First Start: http://youtu.be/547P6SHGixI
    Go Kart 2/12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQSUL-6q15k

  8. #128
    2bking's Avatar
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    Side Pipes

    I have the Stainless Headers and without any adjustments, the side pipes are equal distance from the frame on either side. However there is difference in tilt along the sides. The DS is high by 2.5* and the PS is high by almost 4*. I tested the strength of the side pipes and headers by trying to tweak the pipes level by applying pressure at the end of the pipes. My full weight wasn't enough to bend the headers.
    2014-11-18 12.14.12.jpg

    I contacted a couple of other builders with the Coyote and Stainless headers and they had similar experience with the PS side higher than the DS and almost by the same amount as mine. The mounting bolts holding the flanges together between the side pipes and headers are 3/8". I drilled the four mounting holes on both flanges to 17/32" which allowed enough adjustment to get the DS side pipe level (parallel to the frame rails). The PS side being higher than the DS needed more clearance in the mounting holes so I machined all the threads off the bolts that the nuts didn't contact. That gave enough extra clearance in the mounting holes to level the PS pipe.

    I tried to follow the assembly manual on installing the side pipe hangers but there seemed to be a problem with the attachment method. As mentioned above, the side pipe attachment and structure is very sturdy so additional support is really not needed or useful. But should the flange mounting bolts loosen up, I would like a support to keep the side pipes off the pavement. I cut the hanger brackets as shown in the picture and rounded the end.
    2014-11-19 13.09.31.jpg

    I made 3/8" sleeves to fit inside the rubber and put 1/4-20 nutserts in the frame. I used SS hardware to attach the parts.
    2014-11-20 17.52.50.jpg

    The documentation here is a little lacking because of this being done an hour before the first Go-kart event and the camera wasn't on my mind.
    Last edited by 2bking; 11-21-2014 at 12:51 PM.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  9. #129
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    Excellent solution. Always amazed at your thought process.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  10. #130
    2bking's Avatar
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    AC/Heater Problem

    During my first start I noticed the heater wasn't making much hot air and put it on a list to investigate later. I have had the body on checking fits here and there and trimming the doors and trunk lid. It was apparent the ac/heater could be accessed better with the body off. I have removed the body so I checked out the heater problem. When I did the initial heater hose fitting, the tubes came loose where they were sealed to the heater box with silicone and could be pulled out of the box about an inch. After I completed the hose fitting I reapplied silicone to seal around the tubes. While removing the hoses this time, the silicone came loose again. There isn't anything to pull against to remove the hoses until the silicone lets go and the tubes contact the inside of the box.

    I checked the diverter valve for proper operation and water flow directions. Other than the diverter valve having some flow around the butterfly internally and not fully diverting the water, everything checked out OK. I did a flow test on the heater core with a water hose and it seemed to be somewhat stopped up. I looked in the tubes as far as my bore scope would go and saw nothing. I called Jeff at Whitby's to see if there was a way to access the core without removing the complete unit. After discussing the problem and the possibility of a crimped tube from the loose silicone he suggested reversing the water flow with the water hose and sent this picture of the connections inside.
    2014-12-09 10d.jpg

    I reversed the flow through the coil and something changed and the water flow dramatically increased. I looked but could not find what might have been expelled. I decided the loose tubes needed a permanent fix because of the difficultly in removing stuck hoses. When the silicone comes loose, the tubes stick out like this.
    2014-12-09 1d.jpg

    I made a copper plate from a copper fitting and formed it like so:
    2014-12-09 2d.jpg 2014-12-09 4d.jpg

    I attached it to the exposed tubes:
    2014-12-09 5d.jpg 2014-12-09 6d.jpg

    I used some insulating cloth between the plate and box to protect the plastic from the torch and soldered the plate to the tubes.
    2014-12-09 7d.jpg

    After cleaning up the flux and reapplying silicone behind the plate I attached the plate to the box with sheet metal screws. Then I applied a little paint to match.
    2014-12-09 8d.jpg

    Its a little ugly but a very strong connection. It is covered up with the hoses and cover.
    2014-12-09 9d.jpg

    Now back to the body and dash.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  11. #131
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    So now you get good flow in both directions? Very well thought-out mod.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  12. #132
    Senior Member chrisarella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
    I cleaned the outside and painted it.
    Attachment 22153Attachment 22152
    I was going to get mine powder coated but didn't want to go through the hassle of pulling my pumpkin apart. What did you end up painting this with?
    Chris
    Mark IV Roadster #7679
    Coyote 5.0, T56, Hydraulic Clutch, IRS, Torsen Diff, Wilwoods, Hydraboost, ABS Power Brakes, Power Steering, & tons more extras.

  13. #133
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisarella View Post
    I was going to get mine powder coated but didn't want to go through the hassle of pulling my pumpkin apart. What did you end up painting this with?
    I used rattle can Rustoleum, gloss black. I also use it to touch up the frame where the POR 15 chips and around the welded areas that didn't get done before the POR 15 was applied.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  14. #134
    Mustang Convert bansheekev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisarella View Post
    I was going to get mine powder coated but didn't want to go through the hassle of pulling my pumpkin apart. What did you end up painting this with?
    I used silver Duplicolor caliper paint. It's designed for higher temperatures (that was my thought process at least)...

    Kevin
    MKIV, IRS/TruTrack/3.55s, Coyote, TKO600, Wilwoods
    Delivered: 1/6/2012
    First Start: 1/19/2014
    First Go-Kart: 2/1/2014
    Graduation: 1/4/2015
    Graduation Thread

  15. #135
    Senior Member chrisarella's Avatar
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    Thanks King/Kevin. I was leaning towards the POR15 caliper kit here and considered the simpler rattle-can caliper paint route but was worried rattle-can paint would look like dookie over time. Is the rattle-can paint holding up better than the POR15?

    Thank again!
    Last edited by chrisarella; 12-21-2014 at 05:28 PM.
    Chris
    Mark IV Roadster #7679
    Coyote 5.0, T56, Hydraulic Clutch, IRS, Torsen Diff, Wilwoods, Hydraboost, ABS Power Brakes, Power Steering, & tons more extras.

  16. #136
    2bking's Avatar
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    Is the rattle-can paint holding up better than the POR15?
    You can find lovers and haters of POR 15. If I were to do it again, I would get the factory powder coated chassis. My experience with the POR 15 is it is brittle and pops off rather easily and doesn't have the shine of the powder coat and gloss black paints. I think about a fourth of my chassis is now covered with the rattle can paint from all the touch-ups I've done.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  17. #137
    2bking's Avatar
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    Tilt Front

    I've planned from the start to make a tilt front but the devil is in the details. I want the front bumper and over riders so making the front tilt and keeping those components off the ground was a challenge. The tilt point or hinge area is fairly easy to determine. A simple hinge puts the front bumper in the dirt when raised so I needed a complex hinge called a four bar linkage. This linkage needed to push the front forward and raise it as the front tilted upward. After playing with several designs it became obvious that the hood hinge that came with the kit would do what I wanted but needed to be mounted in a different orientation. It would also need a frame interface with the body to spread the loading points. The fiberglass front has a weak area or small cross section at the top of the wheel openings and can droop across that area when supported only at the front. I wanted the frame to extent toward the firewall to help control the droop when raising the front.

    The pictures show the progress thus far. I have made the cut line mirror the door. I want to be able to line the two parts back together after cutting so I made several wood blocks and sanded the body contour into them and attached them from the inside with screws. I plan to use the blocks to align the surfaces when fiberglassing a ledge around the opening. I have completed the frames that will attach the body to the hinges.
    2014-12-19 17d.jpg 2014-12-19 16d.jpg DSCF4730d.jpg

    DSCF4732d.jpg DSCF4734d.jpg

    And a picture of the model showing some of the details on the inner workings.
    mk4_chassisd4.jpg

    Next step is cutting the body and starting the fiberglass work.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  18. #138
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    Too cool! If I bring mine over.......?
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  19. #139
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    I'm looking forward to seeing more of this build. You've got more guts than I do, cutting the body like that!
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  20. #140
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleG View Post
    Too cool! If I bring mine over.......?
    Yes, YES, bring it over. I need one to practice on.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  21. #141
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Sweet!

    For some reason I really like the tilt front.

    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C, LS3 525, Mendeola SDR5,

  22. #142
    2bking's Avatar
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    Dallas, you and Tennessee Tim are my inspiration. If mine turns out as nice as the both of yours, I'll be happy.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  23. #143
    2bking's Avatar
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    Roll Bar Installation

    Sometimes I think I'm finding other things to work on just to put off the body work that leads to cutting the front. I have sough advice from several forum members on how best to proceed and found excellent guidance. MikeinAtlanta gave me a list of materials I would need and how best to glass in the hood. I ordered the materials and am waiting on the shipments. So while I'm waiting, I used the time to get the Breeze roll bars installed.

    The Breeze bars are made from 1.75" diameter tubes; the FF ones are 1.50" in diameter. The Breeze bars have a slight rearward rake; the FF ones are vertical. The Breeze bars are shorter and hide the joint bolt that the FF one have close top of theirs thus seem to me to have a better overall appearance. They come dissembled and some welding is required. The down leg comes with the fish mouth for welding at the hoop. Mine didn't fit as tight as I wanted so a little contour matching was in order. I marked the area needing trimming and used the dremel to cut out the material. Here are some before and after pictures of the joint.
    2015-01-13 16.19d.jpg 2015-01-13 16.21d.jpg

    After fitting, my son tack welded the parts together while on the car.
    2015-01-13 17.27d.jpg

    Then welded them on the table.
    2015-01-13 17.28d.jpg 2015-01-14 12.20d.jpg

    Even with all the care used to prevent distortion as a results of the welds, the tubes required tweaking back into alignment with the frame. The PS required all three legs to be adjusted but it wasn't hard when using four foot cheaters. The slanted down leg has two joints that are required for installation of the bars. The lower tube slides into the upper one for installing the roll bar into the body and then slips down over the mounting tube on the frame. Both joints require bolts to secure the bar. The bolt in the upper joint is inside the trunk thus is hidden from view.

    I plotted the body surface intersection on the roll bar leg to determine the area available for the bolts at the upper joint. Since I haven't done the final body fitting, I wanted to err on the side of caution. I didn't think there was adequate room for a through bolt there so I opted for the one wall approach. On the forward side on the slanted tube there is about 2" of tube below the body at the joint. I matched drilled the tubes for 5/16-18 threads and drilled the outer tube to clear the head of the socket head screws. Since the locations for the screws weren't critical, I did this off the car. Drilling the outer tube to clear the head makes aligning the threads and holes a lot easier when assembling the bars with the body on. When the screws are seated, the heads carry the load of the outside tube. Using two screws gives the same shear strength as a through bolt.
    2015-01-17 14.47d.jpg 2015-01-17 14.48d.jpg 2015-01-17 15.05d.jpg

    That was the harder part of assembly and installation. I then drilled the lower holes for attachment to the frame with the bars in place. I going to have them chrome plated.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  24. #144
    2bking's Avatar
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    The time has come to start the journey toward the flip front by making irreversible modifications to the body. As seen in a previous post, I mounted blocks along the proposed cut line for alignment of the two pieces after cutting. I'm not sure they will be needed but I wanted the reference just in case. My fiberglass materials came in so I have the needed stuff. First on the list is to glass in the hood from the top so work on the bottom side can proceed. My goal is to have an underside with no witness of the factory hood, just a smooth surface with a new rib or two. I carefully shimmed the hood around its perimeter so the body and hood were at the same height. I taped the shims in place and laid the hood in its opening. I was planning on screwing the hood down to hold it in position but when all the shims were at correct height the hood was even with the body all the way around. I contacted Mikeinatlanta and he was extremely helpful in guidance in both the procedure and materials needed. What I'm doing now is following his advice. So, one layer of glass on the top side, which will be removed later after the bottom side is finished.
    2015-01-19 16.16d.jpg 2015-01-19 17.05d.jpg

    Next, I needed access to the bottom side without working from below so up on its side against the wall it went. I turned it on its side while on the body buck and tried to remove the buck but the body needed it for support and to keep against the wall so the buck stayed. I cut away all the flanges and the bottom piece on the hood. The before and after and parts removed are shown here.
    2015-01-20 11.51d.jpg 2015-01-20 12.47d.jpg 2015-01-20 12.46d.jpg

    Next was the real dirty work of grinding away all the remaining lips and filler. I wore a body suit for such jobs and respirator, it made a thick pile of pink dust. It was a nice day and I had the shop door up. The bees were out and must have thought the odor it produced smelled of flowers. I had a half dozen flying around and inspecting my work. By the time I got the mess cleaned up, they had left. The next pictures are of the fillers and flanges I ground away and the completed grind work.
    2015-01-20 13.32d.jpg 2015-01-20 16.02d.jpg

    Tomorrow I will start making the ribs and glassing in the bottom side.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  25. #145
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Way cool!
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C, LS3 525, Mendeola SDR5,

  26. #146
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    Huevos grande King!!

    I will be watching to see how this goes. I am sure it will go great based on everything else you have done.

    No way I have the guts to try something like this, but I really like the flip front. Great start!

    Regards,

    Steve

  27. #147
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    I like you work but have one reservation. The FFR hinges are meant to raise just a hood. Will they be strong enough for the entire front of the body?
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  28. #148
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    I like you work but have one reservation. The FFR hinges are meant to raise just a hood. Will they be strong enough for the entire front of the body?
    Good question Craig. I was going to build my own when I realized the hood hinges had the right action but needed to be mounted in a squirrely orientation. The metal thickness in the hinge material is thicker than the supporting structure and the hinge bushings have plenty of capacity for the fifty or so pounds the entire front clip will weigh. Divided up, it's 25# per hinge. What they can't handle is the side loads but I have added a load mechanism to handle that. If you look closely to the last picture of post 137 you will see a green rod that is part of the mechanism. It works similar to the fifth link of a 5 link rear suspension. Here is a better picture of the model.
    mk4_chassis_link.jpg

    If the hinges turn out to have problems, I will remake the links out of thicker material. Judging from the wimpy hinges I've seen on production cars, I don't think I'll have a problem.
    Last edited by 2bking; 01-21-2015 at 08:21 PM.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  29. #149
    2bking's Avatar
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    Glassing in the Hood

    After I finished cutting away the flanges as seen in the previous post, I ground down a little deeper for the seam glassing so it would have a tapered valley to build up in. When I sand down the seam it will be flush with the surrounding surfaces and the seam glass will have some depth. I have three layers of 1.5 oz mat in the seam. This picture shows the underside of the hood glassed in all around.
    2015-01-22 16.18d.jpg

    I made three parallel ribs, 1" wide by 3/4" deep across the bottom of the hood for stiffening. I bought a 1" thick sheet of Divinycell Foam for forming the ribs and cut the strips with a 15* taper on either side with a band saw. I used the 3M spray adhesive to hold them in place against the curved underside of the hood while I glassed over them. Per Mikeinatlanta, the resin will dissolves the adhesive it comes in contact with and doesn't affect bonding strength. Sure enough, it did that and more. While waiting for the resin to cure, the spray adhesive lost its grip under the ribs and they started pulling away. They are still structural but the final shape is not what I had intended. I'll get pictures of them when I turn the body over again. Right now, it's on the body buck.

    I flipped the body back on the buck to glass in the hood from the top side. When I applied the glass to the top to hold the hood in place, I did very little sanding to the gel coat. Turns out, that was a good thing because I was able to break the glass away from the gel coat in a few places and pull it off. I used some 60 grit on the sander to remove the traces of the resin and smooth the surface around the hood seam. I then used a right angle grinder to make a valley along the seam line. In several places the depth of the grind met the glass of the seam on the far side so there will be very little void left. These are pictures of the seam when I finished grinding. I made the depth large enough for 3 layers of 1.5 oz mat to fill.
    2015-01-24 15.10d.jpg 2015-01-24 15.01d.jpg 2015-01-24 15.02d.jpg

    I cut strips of the mat in three different widths to lay in the seam and applied the resin to the botton, middle, and top strips as I worked my way around the seam.
    2015-01-24 15.09d.jpg 2015-01-24 15.23d.jpg

    I bought several different seam rollers when I got my supplies and this one came in very handy. It removes the trapped air in the mat and make it transparent. It also buries the mat edges to smooth out the layers. These pictures are the seam before and after rolling it.
    2015-01-24 15.12d.jpg 2015-01-24 15.13d.jpg

    This is a final picture of the finished seam.
    2015-01-24 16.33d.jpg

    I have some final sanding to do top and bottom and a little rib repair. Next will be mounting the trusses to the underside for the hinges to attach to. Then it will be time to cut the body
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  30. #150
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    Great work!
    Mk 4 roadster #8495 delivered on 12-23-2014. Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-Build-Thread Carbureted 4.6 SOHC, C-4 auto with manual valve body. Fox width rear with 2.73 gear. First start video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ie...ature=youtu.be

  31. #151
    2bking's Avatar
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    I was able to get some time in today to work on the body. I sanded out the top seam and was pleased with the results. Varying the widths of the mat made the seam close to final contour so it was pretty quick blending it into the surrounding contours. There's not much to see in a picture so I didn't take any.

    I flipped it back on its side to work on the ribs and start sanding the seams. The first rib had a divot where I placed a prop to keep it from coming loose while the resin hardened. I tried to use glass cloth and lap it over the rib but it was difficult keeping the lap seam where it was just at the edge of the rib. Spray adhesive would have worked but I had already coated the area with resin when I discovered the difficulty. I think the time spent readjusting the cloth and applying more coats is what caused the spray adhesive to finally let go. I used a strip of 1.5 oz mat on the other two ribs and had much better success. I also added another layer of mat where the hood scoop would attach if I decide to mount it. I don't think it was really necessary but it's there just in case. This is a picture of the foam strip that was used to form the ribs.
    2015-01-25 16.09d.jpg

    These pictures are the ribs and problems after they cured.
    2015-01-25 15.00d.jpg 2015-01-25 14.99d.jpg 2015-01-25 14.98d.jpg

    The last pictures shows where it started pulling away but has plenty of contact left where it attaches to hood. Another one shows the divot where it was propped. I decided the best repair was to sand out the wrinkles and add another layer of mat to the whole rib. This picture shows the completed repair.
    2015-01-25 16.10d.jpg

    When it cures, I might have a little more work to do but the majority of the problem is fixed. While I was working on the top, I tested the stiffness the ribs provided and it is much improved. Jeff Kleiner suggested I should add the ribs, Thanks Jeff
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  32. #152
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    Looks good King.
    Curious, why do the ribs? I noticed no deflection of the hood at all when we glassed ours in.
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C, LS3 525, Mendeola SDR5,

  33. #153
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallas_ View Post
    Looks good King.
    Curious, why do the ribs? I noticed no deflection of the hood at all when we glassed ours in.
    If I had left the inner liner under the hood, it wouldn't have been necessary. Without the liner the hood was flexible when applying pressure toward the center and became stiffer toward the radiator area. It has a stiffer cross section in the front area and the curves flatten out toward the windshield. The first rib is in the area where it started to get flexible. This is engineering by braille.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  34. #154
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    This sure is fun to watch! Notice I said "watch"; not sure I'm ambitious enough to try it (well, maybe someday after retirement)

    Carry on,
    Jeff

  35. #155
    Senior Member dallas_'s Avatar
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    ok, that makes sense. We left the inner liner in so it's probably a lot stiffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    This sure is fun to watch! Notice I said "watch"; not sure I'm ambitious enough to try it (well, maybe someday after retirement)
    Jeff
    C'mon Jeff!
    All you need is a cutoff wheel or sawzall.
    FFR 7123 tilt front, Levy 5link/wilwoods/LCA's, webers.
    SL-C, LS3 525, Mendeola SDR5,

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    This sure is fun to watch! Notice I said "watch"; not sure I'm ambitious enough to try it (well, maybe someday after retirement)

    Carry on,
    Jeff
    King-

    I am completely with Jeff on this! I admire you for undertaking the project, and you clearly have the skill set to get it done.

    However, there's no way I have the guts to do it myself. But I have mad respect for you and I look forward to seeing the finished product!

    Regards,

    Steve

  37. #157
    2bking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    This sure is fun to watch! Notice I said "watch"; not sure I'm ambitious enough to try it (well, maybe someday after retirement)

    Carry on,
    Jeff
    Well... you didn't discourage me when I contacted you so must be thinking of doing the same and I'll bet it will happen before you retire. Sanding, filling, painting the same way on the same bodies must get tiring.

    Dallas offered encouragement also.

    As they say, "the devil is in the details", so I'm sure I'll find a pitch fork in there somewhere. This was in the plans from the beginning so if I screw up, I'm on the hook for another body and hood plus reworking every thing I put under the fenders that's not accessible from the hood. It seems to work on paper (CAD).
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  38. #158
    2bking's Avatar
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    I took a few days off from my build to make a few parts for a new father-son builder. The son has messianic cancer although in remission from the use of a new drug. They are building a Coyote engine roadster so I modified an van accelerator pedal and made some PCM mounts to send them. The parts will help to speed along the build.

    I have cut the body! I used a ceramic/fiberglass jig saw blade and it cut very nicely leaving a 1/8" gap. The cut line will need some sanding to remove the little wiggles in it but I'll have to wait until the parts are separated. I cut it by removing the blocks along the path and reinstalling them after the cut pasted their mounting area. Because the two parts were attached to each other, there wasn't a stress relieving pop at the end of the cut. The mismatch in the picture isn't from stress reliving after the cut but the way the body is supported or lack there of. Adding some additional support brings the two parts back into alignment
    2015-01-27 19.2d.jpg

    The next step is to build a ledge around the body for the hood to contact when closed. To do this I needed to turn the body upside down. I carefully measured for blocks to place under the body to support it and cut them from scraps.
    2015-01-31 12.7d.jpg2015-01-31 14.0d.jpg

    I'm starting at the center of the cowl and working toward the fenders and keeping it a short section to make sure the methods works as expected. I cut some of the divinycell foam into 1/8" strips to place in the cut to keep the resin out. This picture is with the strips in place in the gap and also shows the strips that were left over. To keep the two sides of the cut in alignment I placed several #4 screws in the cut with washers on both sides to squeeze the parts into alignment.
    2015-01-31 13.0d.jpg 2015-01-31 12.6d.jpg 2015-01-31 14.1d.jpg

    I also cut some small foam strips to make a dam with to keep the edges of the glass mat straight. I cut three different widths of the 1.5 oz. mat to taper the thickness of the ledge and applied resin. I haven't taken pictures of the ledge yet but will include them next time.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

  39. #159
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    King,

    Amazing job...thanks for walking us through this modification.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  40. #160
    2bking's Avatar
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    This has taken quite a few days because the resin needs a good 12-24 hours to cure and even then is not rock hard. I think that's to be expected with the vinyl ester. The gallon I received was date coded December so it was quite new and had a pot life of over 2 hours even with 10% extra hardener. The last mix today had about a 45 minute pot life. Each step was left to cure before I touched the body again. It's been around 30 to 50 degrees outside for the last few weeks so I kept the temperature in the shop around 70 to facilitate the curing.

    To make a boring story short, I continued the ledge around the cut to the side of the body and the reversed it to the hood side where the body contour changed slope direction. Otherwise the lip would interfere with the opposite mating surface while the hood closed. But before I completed it I made a dimensional check across the body mounting holes for the bottom lip and compared it to the frame. With the body upside down and supported on the carefully measured blocks, it was spread 7". I made two supports from 1x2s to bring the spread back to the frame dimension that can be seen in the photos. While completing the ledge all around, I also made a vertical rib and another on the body side of the cowl. I used the divinycell foam to contour the rib. After my experience with the resin releasing the ribs on the hood, I made cuts in the foam to make it much more flexible so the spray adhesive didn't need much holding strength to keep the rib in place. Here are some pictures of the process of making them flexible using a wood band saw.
    2015-02-05 11.28.39d.jpg 2015-02-05 11.28.51d.jpg 2015-02-05 11.30.01d.jpg

    I decided on the cowl rib after I completed the vertical ones and found they had such strength that the body only spread about an inch when I removed the supporting 1x2s. The cowl rib will maintain the contour there to match the hood. The movement of the hood at the last few inches of closure follows a 13* line so the ledge switch has this angle which can be seen in some of the pictures. The pictures are in chronological order.
    2015-02-01 17.47.01d.jpg 2015-02-05 12.16.47d.jpg 2015-02-05 15.13.53d.jpg 2015-02-06 15.36.18d.jpg 2015-02-06 15.37.11d.jpg 2015-02-06 15.36.28d.jpg

    At this point the body parts are ready to separate. The masking and foam strips worked to keep the two parts from sticking together. After removal of the blocks holding the two parts, the only thing keeping them together was the adhesive on the masking tape which gave up with some encouragement.
    2015-02-07 11.41.57d.jpg
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

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