Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[longislandwrx]

I looked back and saw you are running the 10cm housing. Like Wayne said, there's an 8 that would make sense. ( I think there's even a 7 if you can find one)

http://www.prospeedracing.com.au/pro...r-housing.html

magical.

[C.Plavan]

Yeah- I'll probably just keep this turbo on the shelf if I ever decide to run ST1. I'll do more homework next time and forget trying to have 2 different racing class tunes on one turbo. The tuner did say and 18g with 8cm would be ideal.

[Evan78]

I did a comparison torque chart of my dyno run compared to Chad's.
My 04 stock 2.5L FXT engine w/TDO4 turbo / stock tmic / cated exhaust /stock tune.
As we are running similar Boost levels. Why is Chad's torque higher?

EDIT: EODTech87 in the next post corrected me. The line I charted for Chad's boost, was really his Air/Fuel Ratio.

In general, a larger turbo will flow more air than a smaller turbo at a given pressure. Even if you had the same exact setup, using a better flowing exhaust will net more power at the same boost level.

[Aero STI]

For 280 HP and quick spool I would not recommend an 18G. If you navigate over to blouch's site, they rate the 18G-XT or 18G-XTR (ball bearing) at 430HP and the 1.5XT-R that you have at 480 HP. The lb/min difference is pretty small.

Back in 2006/2007 I was making 380 AWHP and 400 WTQ on a EJ205 and an externally wastegated 18G running 110 leaded. It made 330 WHP on 93 and didn't spool that quickly by today's standards. I would shoot for something a little smaller that you can operate in a very efficient range.

A VF-34/39/42 would probably serve you very well for the desired power levels. The VF-39's are dirt cheap too.

Alternatively, you could use an EFR 6258. In a twin scroll configuration with your motor it would spool super quick and hold power on the top end. Check out the bottom of this page to see relevant subaru info.

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-t...8-turbo-2.html

[Scargo]

The EFR 6258 may be at the top of my list for turbos right now. Check out this Matchbot tune using it on a 2.34L motor. There's tons of wastegating on the higher end. Not sure if that is problematic or not. It is a water-cooled turbo.

[Tamra]

We are pretty excited about our Borg Warner. However, they will require modification of the cross brace, whereas some of the VF series probably won't. We went with the externally wastegated, oil cooled, Airwerks series. It was quite a project since we custom built our up-pipe (Full Race will not split the header and up-pipe package [which is $$$$ too], and their up-pipe probably would not have fit anyway, as we have very tight clearance on everything to shove that 25lb monster turbo in there). We had to go rotated to make it work, and we bought the 51mm S200SX... one of the smallest available.

The VF37 twin scroll would be fun, and you can buy drop in Subaru kits. I think Metalmaker ran this turbo with out any fitment problems, but confirm with him to be sure.

[metalmaker12]

We are pretty excited about our Borg Warner. However, they will require modification of the cross brace, whereas some of the VF series probably won't. We went with the externally wastegated, oil cooled, Airwerks series. It was quite a project since we custom built our up-pipe (Full Race will not split the header and up-pipe package [which is $$$$ too], and their up-pipe probably would not have fit anyway, as we have very tight clearance on everything to shove that 25lb monster turbo in there). We had to go rotated to make it work, and we bought the 51mm S200SX... one of the smallest available.

The VF37 twin scroll would be fun, and you can buy drop in Subaru kits. I think Metalmaker ran this turbo with out any fitment problems, but confirm with him to be sure.

I did and still have it. It is not completely toasted either, would run pretty good but needs a rebuild. I would have still used it but there hard to find a place that does them anymore. If you find a place I will sell it cheap to ya bro. Than you just need a jdm twinscroll header and uppipe which are cheap money all over the place.

[Mitch Wright]

I posted a Want to Buy ad on NASIOC classifieds and had a number of responses for a JDM Twin Scroll Header and up-pipe. Bought one for $500.00 in really good shape.
I have been told by Wayne and others that the JDM header was hard to beat, now that I have it I can see why. It is a nice manifold.
I found a number of JDM Twin Scroll (VF37) turbos, Header/Up Pipe and intercooler plus hardware for around $1000-1500.00

[JeromeS13]

+1 for the VF37 twin scroll setup. If you like torque, slap it on an EJ25. :-D

My dyno chart for a reminder:

[Aero STI]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.

[metalmaker12]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.

I know all about it, I was only just making 300 whp with my v8 ej207 Vf37 twinscroll. I have tuned the car 0-60 in the 3.5-4.0 and 0-100 in the 7 second range

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=LL-...&v=aJhazON5PsE

[C.Plavan]

OK- This thread is not turbo talk..... I'm not going for all out power..... I have to fit HP/WT class.

[metalmaker12]

OK- This thread is not turbo talk..... I'm not going for all out power..... I have to fit HP/WT class.

Sorry, I was trying to say that 280- 300whp is a great number for any 818, so using a Vf twinscroll is a great cost effective solution.

[C.Plavan]

Sorry, I was trying to say that 280- 300whp is a great number for any 818, so using a Vf twinscroll is a great cost effective solution.

It's alright. I like the suggestions, I just didn't want it to turn into a turbo Pi$$ing match thread.

[Mitch Wright]

Agree the VF Twin Scroll is a great solution, I am in the same boat trying to fit in to ST2. I am running a stock 2.0L with TGV deleted so I am starting off with a less power potential. But I think the point is with this set up it will spool up quickly and can pull boost to control peak power.
The reality is you have a boat load of options that will get you where you want to be.

[C.Plavan]

Agree the VF Twin Scroll is a great solution, I am in the same boat trying to fit in to ST2. I am running a stock 2.0L with TGV deleted so I am starting off with a less power potential. But I think the point is with this set up it will spool up quickly and can pull boost to control peak power.
The reality is you have a boat load of options that will get you where you want to be.

You have to ask yourself though with the quicker spooling (I should say lower RPM spooling), Do you really need that with a road racing car? I do not think I will be below 3.5K RPM's on the track with the 5 speed with 4.11 FD.
I understand the twin scroll, but with HP limits, some of the benefit would be diminished. The quicker spooling over 3.5K rpm would be great, but what is the real benefit on a HP limited road racing car? I guess that is what testing is for.

[Mitch Wright]

We road raced Eagle Talons both FWD and AWD back in the day in the World Challenge and Escort Series. I can say especially the FWD cars were much easier to drive and produced faster laps with very little lag and early spool up.
That has been my experience, I will say technology/electronics have come a long way since the early-mid 90's when we ran those cars. But we had more than adequate budgets and did a lot of dyno and track testing for validation.

[Evan78]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.

Is this on a 2.5L or JDM 2L engine? What muffler? Sounds fantastic.

[Aero STI]

Sorry if there is too much turbo talk, I was just trying to add insight into the suggestion offered by your tuner. I would not get an 18g turbo for your application. Agreed that on track the revs will be up, but twin scroll is not just about initial boost onset (spool), it's about transient response, or quicker transitions from negative to positive manifold pressure. Ball bearings and low inertia wheels also help both.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Chad
Is there a reason you run the Martini colors?
I want to see a picture of an 818 levitating like this picture.
Bob
2014_Porsche_918_Spyder_Martini_Racing_supercar___gf_2048x1536.jpg

[C.Plavan]

I'm currently testing at the track. So far so good. I'm probably going to need a bigger oil cooler. Oil is getting to 240ish, my AWIC alarm went off for a second (set for 140 degrees). Concerning since its 61 degrees outside. It's usally in the 130 range.
3 sessions down on the slow tires with a crazy 30mph headwind. Got to a 1:32, but my goal is to get to 1:28. I hope the wind dies down.

I bled the AWIC from the bleeder screw, is there anything I'm missing?

[Mechie3]

Do you have sensors for the water? It would be help to know water temps before/after the HE and the AWIC.

[D Clary]

Are you cooling fans on? I usually turn mine on at the start of a session so I don't have to think about it. If you wait until they come on with the thermostatic control they sometimes have a hard time catching up. Also the intercooler may need the cooling before the engine. I noticed mine just running in the shop the oil temp climbs much faster than my Mustang. I am thinking that the design of the engine lets more heat into the oil. 240 is right at the top of my comfort zone. Does the fan on the oil cooler come on thermostatically also? Might start with it on as well. The only other thing that I thought of was closing off the area beside the HE and radiator forcing the air to go through and not around. Good luck and have fun. DC

[C.Plavan]

The only sensor I have is right before the intake that I tapped into the AWIC core. I'll try taping off the HE gap to the radiator.
Oil fan has temp switch at 180 degrees and is working.
First radiator fan comes on at 192 I believe. I'm going 100mph plus, so fans don't matter really.

[Hindsight]

Aside from bleeding the AWIC, I agree with D Clary on blocking airflow around the outer edges of the heat exchanger (basically sealing it to the radiator).

I'm wondering how much flow the radiator and HE are getting...... IE are the hood vents and gill vents enough to cause sufficient low pressure behind the radiator? Also, do you have all the aluminum panels in the radiator area installed and if so, how well are they sealing the radiator? Should be pretty air tight in there.... air should only have one place to go and that's through the rad.

I think adding more sensors is going to be warranted. Pre and Post AWIC for air temps, and the same for water temps. The pump may also not be delivering enough flow for your purpose. There are better pumps available but they aren't cheap. If interested I can dig up a link to a comparison of AWIC pumps. I have it saved somewhere.

[Wayne Presley]

Make sure you do not have any kinked hoses restricting flow. What sensor are you using for measuring the temp and did you check the calibration?

[metalmaker12]

I can't wait till it gets warmer so I to can fully test the vcp awic. So far it's run pretty good, but it was in the 50's ambient and I did not get the iat temp past 90 after staying in boost for long pulls. I am suspect it will perform ok in most cases, hopefully in all. But think more boost will result in more problems.

[C.Plavan]

Just went out for another session, it got to 132- but it was sub 130 for 15min.
No kinks.

I'm using the GM sensor in the AWIC. I used the voltage diagram I found on the internet for my data logger. Wayne, do you have the voltage specs (calibration) so I can double check?

Btw- don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood. I almost lost the hood after a huge gust of wind going down the front straight. I taped the front good all the way down. I'll come up with a better solution later.

[D Clary]

Even at speed the fans will help direct the air through the radiator. At 100 plus you are also creating a lot more heat, particularly in the turbo which intern heats up everything else.

[Scargo]

I'm envious of you having track time in the car. What are your feelings about the handling?
I hope everyone knows about turbo blankets. They are a must have in an STi if you track it. I am going to ventilate the rear a lot and I will wrap everything that gets hot back there.
You might look at Jerome's build. He worked a lot with pumps for the AWIC.

I'm not going to use them but I curious exactly what happened with the Qwik Latch. I am probably going to use an Aerocatch on each rear corner of the hood.

[Mechie3]

He has a blanket and my heat shield.

I saw some independent testing of the bosch and meziere pumps and it showed under no load the meziere did best but drops off quickly under load and does the same or worse than the bosch.

[Hindsight]

I'm envious of you having track time in the car.

Yeah, pics or it didn't happen!

[D Clary]

I am going with the hood pins on the hood. Probably some reinforcement like I did on the trunk. There is a lot of force on it and not much structure.

[Wayne Presley]

Chad, the easiest way to check the calibration is to see if all your sensors read the same temp first thing in the morning.

[Wayne Presley]

I made a hood hinge on the front and QuikLatches on the back of the hood for just that reason.

[Santiago]

Chad, when you say "don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood" can you explain how exactly they failed or approached failure? I'm thinking there are at least three modes of failure that might have different resolutions:

1. The locking mechanism failed
2. The mounting method of Quik Latch to chassis failed or was incorrect
3. The area covered by the Quik Latch (esp. mini) was too small and damaged the fiberglass hood

[EDIT] Now that I think of it, there's a 4th mode of failure: The number of latches were insufficient for the size of the hood, making the span between fixed points too broad, leading the panel to flex excessively.

I'd be surprised if it was #1, since they report and rate the mini at 150 lbs pulling force - that's each. How many did you use for the hood? I really like their profile (and price) so I was thinking of using 6 for the hood.

For #2 & #3 have you inspected the hood to see if it is damaged or the latch itself is mounted and adjusted properly? Let us know - hell, let me know; I was really looking forward to using these.

Best,
-j

[C.Plavan]

Ill answer that stuff when I have more time. But the the pin grab is what popped off. Must of been more than 150pounds of pull. Tape solved it for now.

I'm overboosting again. But I'm able to manage it mostly. Throttle will cut. After the first practice, I'm mid pack with a bunch of Corvettes. They pull me in the straights when I'm trying to manage the overboost. Hopefully it won't be that bad when it warms up a bit.

[D Clary]

Was thinking about your oil temp. I don't know about your turbo, I have Turbonetics ceramic bearing turbo in my Mustang. they require very little oil. There is an .050 orifice going into the turbo. If you have un restricted oil flow the turbo could be overheating the oil. That could easily raise the temp 10 to 15 degrees.Just a thought. You may check with your turbo guy. What is your boost set to? maybe you should let it creep another pound. It is possible it wont go any higher.

[Scargo]

I'd say that two seconds off the lead time is not bad for a new car you are sorting out.

[metalmaker12]

Just went out for another session, it got to 132- but it was sub 130 for 15min.
No kinks.

I'm using the GM sensor in the AWIC. I used the voltage diagram I found on the internet for my data logger. Wayne, do you have the voltage specs (calibration) so I can double check?

Btw- don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood. I almost lost the hood after a huge gust of wind going down the front straight. I taped the front good all the way down. I'll come up with a better solution later.

130 in 60 degree weather is not great, we want like 90-100 max in those temps and 140-150 max in any temp. Obviously the colder the better.