H6-EZ30 engine in the 818----IT FITS

[craigfree]

DSR has the numbering right, odd cyl are right, even are left

Driver's side (left) is odd. Front cylinder is #1.

If I have these backwards I have no idea how my engine is running if the cylinders are backwards as that should royally screw up firing order.

[Wayne Presley]

Right side is #1. I'm 100% sure of that.

[craigfree]

According to Subaru yes it is... I just traced the wiring diagram and confirmed you're right.

Now why does this run? It's 360 degrees out of phase.

[Wayne Presley]

What engine management system are you running?

[craigfree]

Haltech elite 2500

[Wayne Presley]

Haltech elite 2500

Can you email me your tune file? [email protected]

[JB91710]

Right side is #1. I'm 100% sure of that.

Same on the EZ30R I guess Subaru just wanted to be different.

[DSR-3]

According to Subaru yes it is... I just traced the wiring diagram and confirmed you're right.

Now why does this run? It's 360 degrees out of phase.

That's quite a head scratcher!
What I really want to say though, is- congratulations on the start-up! Great to hear about it.
I too am using the Elite 2500 system, and I'm starting on wiring now. *where did you locate the electronics?

[craigfree]

My electronics are on the cabin side of front fire wall, passenger side.

Wayne figured it out. The haltech wiring guide has you put the home cam sensor on the left cam. Wayne said the home sensor should be on the cam for cylinder #1. Haltech probably assumed front left was #1 cylinder as most cars are, when they instruct you to put the home on the left head. Wayne wires too many cars and knows home goes on the cam for cylinder #1.

Chances are, I wired it how haltech thought it should be, Wayne wired it how haltech should have.

[JB91710]

Are these oil gallery plugs on the EZ30?

Attachment 60073

[RetroRacing]

I think those are the access to the wrist pins

[JB91710]

I have searched the internet for days to find what I thought would be a simple piece of information, to no avail. 2007 EZ30 oil pan drain plug thread size. I have found 12mm 1.25, 12mm 1.50, 14mm and 12 mm. I think that might cover everything there is. I ask for that car and up come Chevy LS1 plugs. Does anybody know for sure?

[Wayne Presley]

It's a 20x1.5

[JB91710]

It's a 20x1.5

And the water temp is M12x1.5 and the oil pressure is 1/8"BSPT.

[JB91710]

Hi Guys,

If anybody is interested, I just installed a 2005 Legacy Gt 5 speed (BABB) on my 2007 3.0R engine and it went right together with no issues. (Well, we'll see when I put my foot down on the clutch pedal and try to drive it!)

Jack

20170503_155509.jpg

20170503_155636.jpg

[maclonchas]

Wayne,

I realize this is an old thread, but am I having a heckuva time following the EZ thread with people going in multiple directions. I have a few basic questions for you.

1) EZ30D does mate directly to the manual transmission for (5 speed) for the 818 build. Correct?

2) The engine mounts and locations will work (either use EZ30 mounts or EJ mounts).

3) Using a newer wiring harness (CAN Bus) 08+ and your wt reduction method and programmable ECU will meet the 818 requirements. Will need a instrument cluster for same model/year main harness

4) Finally, what else am I missing here?

Thanks

Bill

[aquillen]

Trans goes on the motor just fine - may have a couple bolt holes empty but no big problem.

clutch by the way - I used this, 6000 miles so far no issue:
PSI STAGE 1 CLUTCH KIT+EXEDY FLYWHEEL BAJA FORESTER - IMPREZA LEGACY OUTBACK 2.5 N – (per ebay listing: Mfr part number: F55012R0 FWSBL01) – (per ebay listing: Interchange part number: 600185 600180 EXEDY KSB04 15-021 FIDANZA 110001)

Engine mounts are not the same, must modify the frame to use EZ30 mounts. Don't know that you can put the EJ mounts on the EZ30 - seems not but never saw them side by side.
mounts - look at post #40 here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...rt-s-818-build

My wiring was based on 2001 car and motor (Legacy Outback 3.0) - can't speak to CAN system. I have mine working fine with customized autotrans computer module fooling the ECU to think it has an automatic.

Legacy cluster is physically bigger than the Impreza, complicates just tossing it in the FFR supplied dashboard molding. I made a fully custom cluster - complicated way to go but looks cool... steering wheel covers a lot of info in my dash - I use a GPS in the dash to watch my speed.

Exhaust routing from the engine manifold will run right into the motor mounts - have to cut/weld to work around that.

Lot of stuff in my build scattered regarding this stuff, but I have an index on page 1 4 U.

[maclonchas]

Thanks for the info. I will spend some time reading your build.

[DSR-3]

At least a couple H6 installs have made adapters for the stock mounting points and Group-N EJ mounts.
Here's what I did;
EZ30_Mounts1.jpg

>3) Using a newer wiring harness (CAN Bus) 08+ ...
4) Finally, what else am I missing here?<

Consider the more costly (?) but proven solution of aftermarket ECU & wiring;
*No splicing, extending, tracing, "learning", etc.
*Locate all components wherever you want
*Total understanding and flexibility of the install, and simplified troubleshooting when needed
*Programming, tuning, mapping, upgrades, options, etc. that come with the aftermarket solutions

[maclonchas]

Art,

Did have some time to do some more digging in your thread and also some research on the internet. I know that can be dangerous. Let me run this by you or anyone else with experience or knowledge (I am blessed with neither in this are -- ignorance is bliss). Because I will not be using a donor car, I am not really doing a swap and need to retain the original wiring harness. I have located a 2004/5 Legacy ECU for EZ30 and M/T P/N: 22611AK141. I have verified this through various sources that this is the correct ECU. If I take ECU with a full JDM Legacy wiring harness (understand it is RHD) and use this wire loom throughout the build, do I bypass the issues of the TCU and having to a new wiring setup? I know I will have to lengthen wires in places, but this seems a lot more straightforward-forward and eliminates the fooling of the TCM/ALVS extra wiring. Will need a tune at the end for octane differences.

Am I missing something in my logic?

Thanks

Bill

[aquillen]

Sorry, all I have is cold water for you -

In 2001-2002 the EZ30 electrical was simpler. Not simple, just simpler. The 2003 - 2005 were somewhat similar between those 3 years, but not sure if that is 100% or just somewhat. And, every year you can figure the electronics got more complex.

1) If you read enough of the threads on the EZ30 motors here, you will catch the drift that no one considers the H6 to be amenable to being installed in the 818 except by using an aftermarket ECU. As far as I remember I'm probably the only one that did put an 01-02 style motor in this car using the original ECU (not really true, I worked with another builder who did this, but with the automatic trans - he used my electrical plans). But I did have to do a lot of research and in particular setup some circuits to let the automatic trans computer (TCM) stay in the car but work with a manual trans. And, the 01-02 are not CAN, don't use the immobilizer, and can be fiddled with to make it all work, without doing a tune. To keep the ECU happy and not live with "check engine" I had to make 100% of the emissions systems fully functional - also not a simple game.

2) The 01-02 is not CAN bus but it looks to me like the 03 and up do have CAN bus. At least the 04 wiring I looked at has CAN scattered around it it. Right off this changes the complexity for you a lot, and I don't have any experience with the CAN electronics. It's not magic (CAN) but it does make things more complex by a scale of probably 10X over earlier electronics. I do know, more or less of the following -

....a) It is drive by wire,not by mechanical cable. The throttle and accelerator info is also fed into the TCM and with CAN between the systems you aren't going to get this stuff divorced without some serious electronics technical know how, beyond me unless I were to put many hours into it and probably not even then. Now if the RomRaider guys figured out how you might solve this via RomRaider, which I (think) did have some programming worked out on the engines AFTER the 01-02.(they never published anything usable that I could find for the 01-02). But to be realistic I think what was tackled by the RR guys was to disable emissions warnings type stuff and how to "tune" the injection/ignition timing - probably nothing on actually chopping out CAN functionality and cross checks that go on between TCM, ECU, throttle control and (?) else.

...b) You'll have the anti-theft control system in there (immobilizer) (doesn't turn up on some - maybe even all - of the 01-02 even though wiring diagrams mention such stuff here and there). You will need donor wiring, donor body integrated unit and other electronics to be all working, and those systems need other items to make them happy as well, not sure how deep the nesting goes. If you don't do your own donor, you have to at least make sure you get the ECU, body control module (probably), and for certain the immobilizer from a single donor - unless you have good friends at a Subaru registered shop that can reprogram these for you.

So to me, bottom line is after the 01-02 you will really have a time of it trying to get the engine running with the Subaru systems - you would need to think hard on that and like everyone has written here before, you'll can expect to end up going with aftermarket ECU like Hobby and others have done. I'm pretty adventurous but I'd not go after the newer motors with Subaru electronics in the mix.

[maclonchas]

Art,

Thanks. After I read my message and did some more research, I have come to the same conclusion. I will continue to look at options, but I understand that this path is a non-starter and probable end up as a build not finished.

Thanks

Bill

[maclonchas]

Art,

I have been poking around the web when I can find spare time, as the bug for an H6 motor still has my interest. I did come across this website and thought I would throw this out for comments by all. AGT Engineering (Australia), https://www.agtengineering.com.au/pr...-interface-box, offers a unit that appears to meet two of the criteria I have been searching for in using a more modern update to the 818. There Subaru stand-alone box provides a method to depopulate the wiring harness and have the relays and other fuses placed in a single unit. It additionally allows for the Body interface control unit to be used and run either style cluster (pre CANBUS- with CANBUS emulator or CANBUS). Additionally, it appears to show that the OBDII connection has been solved to allow for use in US market. It allows the ECU/engine wire harness to be used for either pre CANBUS or CANBUS.

Having lived in Australia in the past, I have always been impressed with there engineering talent for niche products. Let me know your thoughts?

Thanks

Bill

[Hobby Racer]

That is a really nice piece of hardware they put together. If it were around when I was doing mine I might have tried it! But when your all in it costs just as much as going with a standalone so I'm not sure your coming out a head. Plus you still need to run the automatic TCM to make the ECU happy unless you get an ECU and harness from a JDM car that came with a manual trans.

PS - way to revive an old thread

[maclonchas]

Hobby Racer,

Thanks for the feedback. I am looking at that side of the JDM engine or I need to pull back who had done a work-around for the TCM to fool it.

Thanks

Bill

[maclonchas]

Hobby Racer,

Here is the article from the RS25 site on how they fooled the TCM:


https://www.rs25.com/threads/how-to-...l-swap.225751/

Hope this is right?

Thanks

Bill

[Hobby Racer]

Hobby Racer,

Here is the article from the RS25 site on how they fooled the TCM:

It is possible that that could work on vehicles that do not use CAN bus connecting the modules, but as Art has pointed out the newer engines like the EZ30 2nd gen and the EZ36 are way more complicated and the amount of effort to work around the TCM is going to outweigh the cost / effort of installing a standalone ECU IMHO.