Aluminum Fuel Tank by Boyd Welding

[07FIREBLADE]

Would love to have them just make a full size tank instead of having to move the firewall back.

[philly15]

i have a question for those running the boyd tank, on the website, it says not intended for racing use, additional baffling maybe be required. Has anyone had any issues with their tank in a racing environment? also has anyone looked into the installation of baffling? does boyd offer it? i want to switch away from the factory five one, i hate not knowing how much fuel i actually have :/

[JeromeS13]

Just fill it up after each session, you'll be fine.

[Pearldrummer7]

i have a question for those running the boyd tank, on the website, it says not intended for racing use, additional baffling maybe be required. Has anyone had any issues with their tank in a racing environment? also has anyone looked into the installation of baffling? does boyd offer it? i want to switch away from the factory five one, i hate not knowing how much fuel i actually have :/

I agree with this sentiment^ I also am looking to switch from the hotrod tank I got from FFR. Anyone have experience on track with this tank?

[Aero STI]

After 500 miles of use, 400 miles on E85 my Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump that came with the boyd tank has failed. If you have any intention of running E85 I would strongly advise against running the aeromotive pump that comes with the tank.

Reading the FAQ for the pump they say it's not designed for e85, but Walbro says the same thing about their tried and true 255 pump and everyone has years of success on high ethanol fuel. I even followed the filtering instructions and haven't reached 10 hours of run time. I'm switching to a Walbro 450.

9.) Q: Can the 340 Stealth Pump be used safely in e85 and how much HP will it support?

A: E85 fuel has become a viable option for street performance enthusiasts in recent years. It has some very significant pros, and equally significant cons, to consider. It does provide higher octane, and lower charge air temperatures, and is especially popular in forced induction applications, permitting more aggressive combinations of boost, compression ratios and tuning. It is also less costly per-gallon than high-octane racing gasoline. That said, fuel usage increases 30-35% to support equal HP, somewhat offsetting the lower cost and requiring the HP rating of all fuel system components, including and especially the HP ratings of the fuel pump and fuel injectors, be reduced by 30-35%.

A crucial consideration regarding whether or not to run E85 is its tendency to rapidly and frequently contaminate and clog/block fuel filters, resulting in significant flow restrictions, which in turn may damage the engine and/or cause premature fuel pump failure. The reasons for filter contamination problems with E85 include:

E85 is an alcohol based fuel, and alcohols are hygroscopic (attract and absorb water from the atmosphere), which can accumulate in and clog fine filter elements.
E85 is an agriculturally produced fuel and, being a byproduct of plant material, there have been indications some of this “bio-mass” can accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
E85 has very strong solvent properties, like many alcohol based liquids, which will act to strip accumulated debris and residues from transport and storage containers, and the inside of fuel tanks and fuel lines, which in turn accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
Aeromotive has conducted extensive testing of the 340 Stealth Pump in E85 fuel, achieving 1,000 plus run hours of service life operating at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. In testing, it was found a filter service interval that gave good fuel pump service life required a new, down-stream filter be installed every 10 run-hours. It is vital to understand that a blocked filter creates severe flow restriction of pump output, building excessively high operating pressure between the pump and the contaminated element. If the Stealth 340 is allowed to run in this environment, operating pressures between pump and filter can exceed 90 PSI, creating extreme current draw and reduced cooling flow, resulting in rapid failure of the fuel pump motor assembly.

WARNING: If you plan to run E85 fuel you must be prepared to install proper filtration, and maintain it as frequently as every 10 run-hours. If not, Aeromotive does NOT recommend you the use of E85 with the 340 Stealth Fuel Pump. Aeromotive’s new product warranty assures the purchaser their 340 Stealth Pump will be free from defects in material and workmanship for one year from the date of purchase. Fuel pump failure caused by clogged/blocked fuel filters is not the result of any defect in the pump itself, and is not covered under this warranty.

For a detailed look at post-pump filter options and what a good one should be like, please see Aeromotive Tech Bulletin: Post-Pump Fuel Filtration TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/post-pump-fuel-filtration/

For a specific example of the issues related to a clogged post-pump filter, please take a moment to see the Case History File embedded in TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/wp-cont...-Case-File.pdf

- See more at: http://aeromotiveinc.com/frequently-....H8fhs8r7.dpuf

[JeromeS13]

After 500 miles of use, 400 miles on E85 my Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump that came with the boyd tank has failed. If you have any intention of running E85 I would strongly advise against running the aeromotive pump that comes with the tank.

Reading the FAQ for the pump they say it's not designed for e85, but Walbro says the same thing about their tried and true 255 pump and everyone has years of success on high ethanol fuel. I even followed the filtering instructions and haven't reached 10 hours of run time. I'm switching to a Walbro 450.

9.) Q: Can the 340 Stealth Pump be used safely in e85 and how much HP will it support?

A: E85 fuel has become a viable option for street performance enthusiasts in recent years. It has some very significant pros, and equally significant cons, to consider. It does provide higher octane, and lower charge air temperatures, and is especially popular in forced induction applications, permitting more aggressive combinations of boost, compression ratios and tuning. It is also less costly per-gallon than high-octane racing gasoline. That said, fuel usage increases 30-35% to support equal HP, somewhat offsetting the lower cost and requiring the HP rating of all fuel system components, including and especially the HP ratings of the fuel pump and fuel injectors, be reduced by 30-35%.

A crucial consideration regarding whether or not to run E85 is its tendency to rapidly and frequently contaminate and clog/block fuel filters, resulting in significant flow restrictions, which in turn may damage the engine and/or cause premature fuel pump failure. The reasons for filter contamination problems with E85 include:

E85 is an alcohol based fuel, and alcohols are hygroscopic (attract and absorb water from the atmosphere), which can accumulate in and clog fine filter elements.
E85 is an agriculturally produced fuel and, being a byproduct of plant material, there have been indications some of this “bio-mass” can accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
E85 has very strong solvent properties, like many alcohol based liquids, which will act to strip accumulated debris and residues from transport and storage containers, and the inside of fuel tanks and fuel lines, which in turn accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
Aeromotive has conducted extensive testing of the 340 Stealth Pump in E85 fuel, achieving 1,000 plus run hours of service life operating at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. In testing, it was found a filter service interval that gave good fuel pump service life required a new, down-stream filter be installed every 10 run-hours. It is vital to understand that a blocked filter creates severe flow restriction of pump output, building excessively high operating pressure between the pump and the contaminated element. If the Stealth 340 is allowed to run in this environment, operating pressures between pump and filter can exceed 90 PSI, creating extreme current draw and reduced cooling flow, resulting in rapid failure of the fuel pump motor assembly.

WARNING: If you plan to run E85 fuel you must be prepared to install proper filtration, and maintain it as frequently as every 10 run-hours. If not, Aeromotive does NOT recommend you the use of E85 with the 340 Stealth Fuel Pump. Aeromotive’s new product warranty assures the purchaser their 340 Stealth Pump will be free from defects in material and workmanship for one year from the date of purchase. Fuel pump failure caused by clogged/blocked fuel filters is not the result of any defect in the pump itself, and is not covered under this warranty.

For a detailed look at post-pump filter options and what a good one should be like, please see Aeromotive Tech Bulletin: Post-Pump Fuel Filtration TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/post-pump-fuel-filtration/

For a specific example of the issues related to a clogged post-pump filter, please take a moment to see the Case History File embedded in TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/wp-cont...-Case-File.pdf

- See more at: http://aeromotiveinc.com/frequently-....H8fhs8r7.dpuf

I must be super lucky then... I have nearly 3,000 miles on my setup with 90% of that being e85...

[longislandwrx]

I mentioned this a while back.. Run the DW300 pump, they are the only company that will stand behind their product when it comes to e85... the service life on the others is laughable.

I will try and find my post, but yeah I posted the same thing... 10hrs lol.


here it is...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post145013

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post145335

[Aero STI]

Boyd should not include the aeromotive pump with the tank because there are numerous better options.

Walbro 450 is the pump for me. Fully E85 compatible, OEM quality, and outperforms all other in-tank pumps.

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-f9...-fuel-pump-e85

[wallace18]

I am sure they would delete the pump if you asked them to.

[Mechie3]

Any pics of the filler neck attached? Removed my pump to add a vent on the tank and the inside is rusty. Awesome. Considering the Boyd tank now.

[Mechie3]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post224321

Found that. Is everyone else doing the same? Wiring the same as well minus needing to mod the level sender potentially?

[longislandwrx]

Any pics of the filler neck attached? Removed my pump to add a vent on the tank and the inside is rusty. Awesome. Considering the Boyd tank now.

well this is fun to hear. scared to check now.

If it is, I will probably pull it and do a POR coating.

[Mechie3]

I should've gone this route a long time ago really.

1: FFR tank didn't even fit in the car. FFR suggested to "just pound it in with a hammer". I did this and the tank folded, creased, and cracked. I had to cut off the corner and reweld it.
2: Fuel pump barely fit inside
3: Lots of stories of leaky seals
4: Fuel fill port is right in the way of the coolant lines coming off the motor
5: Now the inside is rusty

Awesome. :unamused:

[Frank818]

1: FFR tank didn't even fit in the car. FFR suggested to "just pound it in with a hammer". I did this and the tank folded, creased, and cracked. I had to cut off the corner and reweld it.
2: Fuel pump barely fit inside
3: Lots of stories of leaky seals
4: Fuel fill port is right in the way of the coolant lines coming off the motor
5: Now the inside is rusty

I have none/fixed all these issues but I am interested in #5. Is it cuz you did #1 so the consequence was a rusty tank in #5?

[Mechie3]

No idea. Indy tends to have humid summers (though last summer was great). The welding could have done something but was on the far side of the tank. The walbro fuel pump rusted as well and looks like a barnacle covered cylinder. All I know is that given the odds I'd rather not roll.

[THE FURNACE]

You've got me thinking...

[07FIREBLADE]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[07FIREBLADE]

Nvm found it its 15* according to metros thread that mechie linked too

[longislandwrx]

I wish the boyd tank wasn't so small... I don't think anyone ever confirmed or not if the std 33 tank fit the 818.

Mechie you up for it?

[Wayne Presley]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Just cut the horizontal step to 1"on each side then stack the top overlapping and bolt or weld together

[Mechie3]

I wish the boyd tank wasn't so small... I don't think anyone ever confirmed or not if the std 33 tank fit the 818.

Mechie you up for it?

I'm pretty sure that RM1Sepex got a 33 tank by acccident to begin with from FFR and it didn't fit because the filler was on the wrong side and flipping it made it hit the firewall? He (and I) have the original slanted firewall as well, not FFR's new thinner firewall with the horizontal step in it.

I'll email Boyd and see if he'll give me dimensions so I can make a cardboard mockup to test fit. I was planning to ask for a 33 tank with the filler moved to the same location as their existing 818 tank.

edit: I'd also like to see what it costs to add an internal baffle to make it a two compartment tank with a small tank on one side with fittings to work like a surge tank.

[idf]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I bent the top section of mine 15 degrees and the bottom section so it was straight. In retrospect a few more degrees of bend would have been better, but 15 degrees worked. I cut about 1 1/4 inches off the bottom edge of the top section.

As have others, I had to reverse the float on the sending unit then turn the unit 180 degrees to make it read correctly and not contact the tank wall.

For the filler I used an RV filler elbow (Gates 24717) off the tank and cut the FFR filler tube for the top section.Fuel filler.jpg

[RM1SepEx]

The 33 tank fit in place however the fill wasn't in the right location, it came out of the top of the tank IIRC, I sent it to someone for shipping cost, don't remember who

My new tank "fit" because Tony Z pre hammered the corners. Craig's newest findings have me very concerned. I'm sick and tired of having to redo stuff on this car! I may just bite the bullet and go to a front mounted tank with baffling. Maybe even do two tanks with one in my now empty due to iWire harness center console area.

I'm working on detailing the interior and might need to pull out a rusting fuel tank? Really? BTW the fuel gauge is pretty much useless due to the tank design too.

[wleehendrick]

I bent the top section of mine 15 degrees and the bottom section so it was straight. In retrospect a few more degrees of bend would have been better, but 15 degrees worked. I cut about 1 1/4 inches off the bottom edge of the top section.

So glad I decided to go for the Boyd tank when I started my build (a long time ago)! 15deg will still leave a bit of a gap from the tank to firewall; I brought my firewall to a friend-of-a-friend's shop that has a nice big press brake and bent it closer to 20deg; 18-19deg, IIRC.

[Ethan818]

Would love to have them just make a full size tank instead of having to move the firewall back.

I am also interested in this. Will take some measurements tonight and see how much more a larger tank would be for those of us that don't need the extra inches of leg room.

[matteo92065]

Before you install your new tank, put in some baffle or some other way of managing fuel when less than 1/3 tank. I was very surprised to run out of fuel on an easy 90 degree right hand turn.
To drive hard I have to carry no less than 5 gallons, which is a lot on a 10 gallon tank.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am also interested in this. Will take some measurements tonight and see how much more a larger tank would be for those of us that don't need the extra inches of leg room.

Boyd will make any custom tank you want.
My 13 gallon tank is stuffed with foam to the top. I have had it down to 2 gallons and have had no starvation on an autocross course.

[longislandwrx]

I'd also like to see what it costs to add an internal baffle to make it a two compartment tank with a small tank on one side with fittings to work like a surge tank.

I thought about this myself, you could use your lift pump to fill up the smaller compartment, and the return to the larger portion of the tank tank could just be a small hole at the top, remarkably simple.

2016_03_16_15_26_280001.jpg

[billjr212]

I'm working on detailing the interior and might need to pull out a rusting fuel tank? Really? BTW the fuel gauge is pretty much useless due to the tank design too.

I feel weird posting this in Boyd's thread, but here goes anyway.

I think the rusting may *partially* be a one-off issue given Craig's build timeline. I recently opened my tank up after a year on the road to replace the o-rings and there was no sign of rusting inside. Perhaps the extent of rusting is related to the fact that his car isn't on the road, meaning those walls haven't had any consistent film of fuel covering them from sloshing/emptying/refilling the tank.

Also, on the fuel guage, if you bend the arm a bit, it keeps the float from dragging on the front of the tank. The bend that is already in the arm actually makes it fairly accurate once you keep it from dragging.

All that said, if I ever had to pull the interior apart again, I would most likely go ahead and swap to a Boyd tank. I almost pulled the trigger this winter, but decided to give the new o-rings a chance instead. I would consider pulling it apart just to do the Boyd tank if they come out with a design that is full size instead of narrow. I have no need to push the firewall back and hesitate to give up a portion of the already limited fuel capacity.

[Mechie3]

Very possible My car won't get that much use normally either. I can only drive on days that are nice and where I don't have to drop off or pick up from daycare. Some weeks that is 2-3 days, other weeks that is 0 days.

Longisland, I like that idea. I was thinking AN fittings on the top, but the hole is 2 less fittings, 2 less hose ends, and 1 less hose to worry about leaking (or worse).

[billjr212]

Very possible My car won't get that much use normally either. I can only drive on days that are nice and where I don't have to drop off or pick up from daycare. Some weeks that is 2-3 days, other weeks that is 0 days.

Hope the tone of my response didn't come off wrong. I agree it is a ridiculous problem to have given there will be plenty of these cars that sit for months at a time. Just some of the responses seemed to be building a tide of fear that this must be happening to everyone. Just highlighting that my car sat nearly all winter with about a half tank (though I did get to drive it once or twice when we were treated to 40-50 degree days) and there was no sign of rust a few weeks ago when I opened it up and peaked inside.

I like Boyd's solution and I like that it puts pressure on FFR to improve its own offering, just thought I would offer up my own experience as another reference point.

[Mechie3]

Hope the tone of my response didn't come off wrong.


I like Boyd's solution and I like that it puts pressure on FFR to improve its own offering, just thought I would offer up my own experience as another reference point.

Not at all.


I think people who have had cars sitting for a while should certainly take a peek and those currently building should weigh alternatives such as coating the inside or (as mentioned previously) seeing if you can get a savings from FFR for not using their tank that can be spent on a tank from boyd. Say the tank costs FFR (making up numbers) $100 and they sell it for an effective price of $200, they can give a $150 credit. They still make money (more profit actually, assuming they didn't stockpile tanks) and the end user can save on an alternative solution.

[JAubin]

Mechie/Longisland I really like that idea...I have a surge tank on my long-term wish list, and since those aren't cheap anyway if Boyd comes back with a reasonable price I'd certainly consider swapping the whole thing. My car will be sitting without moving all winter typically...so I either need to pull the tank and coat the entire inside of it, or get a new tank I'm thinking....

[longislandwrx]

Longisland, I like that idea. I was thinking AN fittings on the top, but the hole is 2 less fittings, 2 less hose ends, and 1 less hose to worry about leaking (or worse).

yeah sorry for the crude sketch, but you get the idea, bottom connection for the lift pump would just be a hose barb welded to the baffle, it wouldn't see pressure so it should never come off.

if boyd could do something like this in a 13 gallon capacity, minus a gallon or so for the surge tank I think people would be all over it.

Mechie/Longisland I really like that idea...I have a surge tank on my long-term wish list, and since those aren't cheap anyway if Boyd comes back with a reasonable price I'd certainly consider swapping the whole thing. My car will be sitting without moving all winter typically...so I either need to pull the tank and coat the entire inside of it, or get a new tank I'm thinking....

agreed, the radium tank I've been ogling isn't cheap.

[FFRSpec72]

Get a real fuel cell and be done with this talk !

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Get a real fuel cell and be done with this talk !

Tony,
What was the final installed price of your custom fuel cell?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Tony,
What was the final installed price of your custom fuel cell?
Bob

A little over the price of a set of Hoosier R series tires, $1700, 2 pumps 12 gals

[Mechie3]

I can do $500. $1700 is a bit much for me at this point.

[flynntuna]

Before you install your new tank, put in some baffle or some other way of managing fuel when less than 1/3 tank. I was very surprised to run out of fuel on an easy 90 degree right hand turn.
To drive hard I have to carry no less than 5 gallons, which is a lot on a 10 gallon tank.

Or you could use Holly's HydraMat.

https://holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/s

[FFR-ADV]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I left the original shelf in the same place and was able to re-bend it to 13 degrees with the kind help of some generous friends with a large sheet metal brake. The Boyd tank is very nice. Sorry for your gas tank woes Mechie3.