Honolulu 818S Hana (work/build) Thread

[WIS89]

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy!

Now that's funny stuff!!

If I could build as well as Wayne, I don't think I would sand either!

Regards,

Steve

[metalmaker12]

Technically you don't sand you don't really build the whole car you none sanders.

[Aloha818]

yes just in time to put some more filler on...

"Will the sanding ever end?????" ... nope! See ya next month...

You want to know who has two thumbs and doesn't sand? This guy!

This guy too!

Well the body filler, sanding, sanding, sanding, more filler, more sanding is a real pain. Those that have the resources, both to a quality shop and financially able to pay, I applaud. But on some level there is a certain satisfaction in making every detail your own.

My backs not happy though!

[Aloha818]

Technically you don't sand you don't really build the whole car you none sanders.

You tell'm Metal! Those bad non sanders!

[Wayne Presley]

You tell'm Metal! Those bad non sanders!

I really don't like to sand and on top of it I suck at it. On the Car Warrior build I was sanding the hard top and Tony told me to quit helping him.
"A man's gotta know his limits"

[metalmaker12]

Lol, true true

[Aloha818]

Since I'm trying for an OEM look, the wide rolled off edges of the panels have to go. I'm using a paint stick as a guide during prep that will close slightly after primer, paint, clear coat.

I was able to get my body panels oriented on the frame pretty well with even gaps. Most of the panels fit tight on the paint stick at the bottom of the gaps. But the gaps really open up toward the top. So I'm roughing up all the edges with 80 grit and straightening up these edges with filler.
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I'm using the bottom edge of the panels as the rough guide then marking with a pencil a sand to line. After I complete the truck lid/engine cover section I will go back and round off the edges, closer to OEM look. Filler should be 1/8" or less after rounding off.
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While waiting on filler to dry I've been sanding the rest of the panels. Started sanding with 320 grit but areas of the panels are low and were taking too long, so I switched to 180 grit and then will go back over again with 320 grit. Since the gelcoat sands pretty good and doesn't clog up the sandpaper too much, I'm trying to get the body as close as possible now before primer. Hopefully have minimal areas that will have to be reprimed again. So I used some guide coat to help see the dips.
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Getting pretty close on the trunk lid
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And then out to dinner at Michelle's for my sons birthday, fantastic, if not best meal I've ever had. (Or maybe it was the champagne and 4 bottles of wine) Sunset wasn't bad either
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[Aloha818]

I'm not sure how FFR planned to support the rear of the engine cover/front of the trunk lid connection, maybe it's the aluminum ducting for the intercooler. Since I have water to air I haven't even looked at the ducting material. But the engine cover is a pretty good sized panel and a little heavy due to the "humps" . Couple this with the possible load I could have with my spoiler and you can see I'm in need of a solution.

As I have prepped 4 previous cars for paint, I know I need to space my sanding time out. After a week of sanding gelcoat and body filler my fingers are loosing feeling/skin. So today was the day to find a solution.

I've read what others have done, mostly a tube/bar spanning side to side over the engine. So good enough, it provides the support the panel needs. I would also like to get rid of some hood pins. So last night I was trying to think of a way to eliminate the engine cover, rear side, hood pins, and provide support also, without a heavy major structure.

So what you think of my solution? I started with thin wall 1" tube steel, cut and welded 3 bends to match the shape of the rear of the engine cover, made 4ea clips from 1" angle, cut one side down to 1/2", and tack welded about 3/32" larger gap to the lip to capture the rear of the panel. Then out of 16 ga 2" strip I made a bolting plate (7 3/4") and attached to the crossmember with 6 ea 1/4-20 rivnuts, 3 each side. With the engine cover properly supported, in the correct position, I leveled across from the bottom of the 1" tube to the mounting plates and scribed a line. I also measured from the mounting plate to the outside edge of the 1" tube for the length of the next piece of steel (5 1/4")

So I cut 2 pcs of 3/4" tube steel, squared it up on the mounting plate (now off the car) tacked it square, then cut 2 pieces of 1/8" x 2" steel on an angle each side for a brace. Then tacked it all together.

Then bolted the mounting plate/angle/3/4" tube back to the crossmember, positioned the engine cover back in its correct position, slid the 1" tube back in place over the lip, and tacked the 1" tube to the supports.

Now you can slightly lift the front of the engine cover up and out of the rear support, and slid it right back in, no more hood pins requires there and you can stand on the brace if you wanted to. All removable with 6 screws. I still need to clean everything up and paint etc, but you can get an idea what I'm talking about;

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Now back to sanding and glassing in two unneeded hood pin holes!

[Xusia]

Nice!

[AZPete]

Nice!

X2
Watching, and probably copying.

[Aloha818]

Nice!

X2
Watching, and probably copying.

Thanks guys for commenting.

I have spent some more time fine tuning the fitment of the steel brace and have it dialed in now. For a reference, what worked for me was to have the center of the engine cover about 1 1/4" higher than the top outer edge of the fender as measured at the engine cover/trunk joint. At this height the trunk lid is almost perfectly curved to match the rear bumper. The driver rear corner of the trunk, lid has been high, but now almost flat with no alteration to it.

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Now that I am getting the fitment dialed it and the joints closer and tighter, this car is a sexy beast!

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So now that the rear of the engine cover is locked in and supported, time for the front of it.

Since I had slid the engine cover rearward about a 1/4" to tighten up the trunk gaps I needed to glass in the front of it to close the gap to the doors, too much for just filler. I had already placed two layers of mat. So this area is now pretty solid, with two more layers of mat to go. So I cut a couple pieces of 1/8" steel the shape of the inside of the forward section of the engine cover, cleaned up the glass, spread a layer of 20 min epoxy, and secured it with 3/16" rivets.

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Then from 1" angle I started fabricating the receiver bracket that will mount to the body. I cut about halfway through the angle to make it easier to increase the angle from 90* to an angle that matches the slope of the front of the engine cover, and then placed a couple welds to hold the new angle. I ran out of time today to actually mount and complete, but the plan is to use two 1/4"-20 screws per bracket to hold to the body, and then one 1/4"-20 screw going through the fiberglass and imbedded steel plate into the angle that I will tap.

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I know this will require me to keep an allen wrench in the car to be able to check coolant, oil, etc. but I think will look better than the FFR stock hood pins, as the screw will not be visible unless the door is open.

[metalmaker12]

Nice, looking good.

[Oppenheimer]

Any way to fit dzus fasteners instead of the button head allens for those cover mounts? That way no tool or time needed to remove the cover.

Or better yet, some sort of hidden catch mechanism, where you can have a cable pull level pop them open. Kinda like mini hood releases, etc. Maybe something available at McMaster-Carr?

[Scargo]

+1 for Oppenheimer ideas.

[Aloha818]

Nice, looking good.

Thanks!

Any way to fit dzus fasteners instead of the button head allens for those cover mounts? That way no tool or time needed to remove the cover.

Or better yet, some sort of hidden catch mechanism, where you can have a cable pull level pop them open. Kinda like mini hood releases, etc. Maybe something available at McMaster-Carr?

+1 for Oppenheimer ideas.

Thanks for commenting!

Absolutely, there are lots of options. For me I'm going to be happy with a screw in the door jamb area. There are already 3 exposed screws holding the latch and 2 screws holding the catch. I will probably use a tapered head that flushes with the body and paint to match the car, and since this portion of the engine cover is slanted it will be hard to see. Obviously less visible than the hood pins it replaces, with little fab time.

I was able to finish it up this morning. Turned out great! I positioned the bracket on the body in such a way that the locking screw puts a little pressure rearward and helps hold the panel tight to the clips in the rear.

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[RM1SepEx]

I'm going to do something similar but to the inside as I'm concerned about door clearance and I haven't even attempted bolting them up yet!

(too much time getting equipment ready for summer! Working on the John Deere tractor just ain't the same!)

[Aloha818]

I'm going to do something similar but to the inside as I'm concerned about door clearance and I haven't even attempted bolting them up yet!

(too much time getting equipment ready for summer! Working on the John Deere tractor just ain't the same!)

Bummer you have to share time with John Deere! My Hula Girl is much too jealous for me to share time. (Well that and the benefit of living in a high rise)

The great thing about this kit and this forum, so interesting to find opportunities for a better outcome and how as a group, the many solutions. When I came to the resolution that I needed to spend the time to eliminate the hood pins I saw Wayne's solution with the locking screw to the inside. I couldn't figure out how to transfer the holding strength from the inside to the outside without making the bracket more complicated. So simple me, simple solution.

I added two more layers of mat to the front edge, burying the rivets and filling the gap to the door. I will probably use a tapered, flush faced screw, but even the FFR supplied washer headed screw works

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With each little move and a bit a time, I have been able to get the fitment of the body panels pretty good. I would also suspect that as I add supports and leave the panels in place they are "conforming" to the body shape some. Where when I started the panels seemed a little twisted they are now fitting. Glassing in the opening tighter around the hoop support, with the panel jigged up to the opening width, has also made a big difference

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My steel buddy is planning on welding in the new double hoops this weekend (certified welder, I don't trust my welding capabilities), can't wait to see how it fits! I will probably glass in around those openings also as I suspect that since this area is cut so close to the edge that the glass might try and crack here also.

Well, back to sanding, and filling, and sanding.....

[Aloha818]

I spent over 8 hours filling and sanding and glassing in 4 now unneeded hood pin holes in the engine cover today. I have about finished filling/straitening the gaps. All this time and not much to show, but if you've gotten to the point of setting body panels then you know how much space needs to be filled.

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I'm hoping another day and I will have the engine cover, trunk, rear quarters and bumper ready for primer, but will probably run into two.

[metalmaker12]

Good work, I hope to get some time over the next couple months to do the same. Your gaps look better than FFR cars. They left more of a gap between bonnets. I am going to do what your doing and fill rear section and try to make the gaps more even.

[ruckus racing]

Coming along fantastic

[Mechie3]

I like how yours looks, just not sure I have the patience or time to do it myself now.

[Aloha818]

Good work, I hope to get some time over the next couple months to do the same. Your gaps look better than FFR cars. They left more of a gap between bonnets. I am going to do what your doing and fill rear section and try to make the gaps more even.

Coming along fantastic

I like how yours looks, just not sure I have the patience or time to do it myself now.

Thanks Metal, Ruckus, and Mechie!

Yes, it is going to take too many man hours to do all this gap filling. But I want to be like Wayne's car at SEMA, people looking at his 818 with a Lamborghini parked next to it!

I'm not done yet, so let's see how it turns out!

[Aloha818]

My steel friend came through and fabricated the hoops and came by today and we finished grinding the FFT mounting points to fit and welded them in!

I am super excited on how they look and how it changes the overall design of the car. I ran over the the finished welds with a sanding disk and a quick shot of semi-gloss black. I will detail the steel with filler as needed to smooth out some of the deflection created by the bending, but very minor, then prep the same as the rest of the body, 2K primer and paint with the same black body paint.

The seats are sitting on the floor pan, might end up raising them a touch. No notching of the pocket in the humps required. I will be glassing the notches tighter to the hoops as I did to the brace.

FYI, the top of the hoops are the same height as the FFR bar it replaced, and weld in all the same bracing points. The outside legs were moved in about a half an inch to better clear the notch in the engine cover humps, and then centered on the humps. The center of the seats and the center of the hoops are about 3/4" off from each other. I had to pick once to center with, and the hoops actually touch the humps so it makes sense to pick the humps.

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[Canadian818]

Wow! looks amazing, seriously kudos dude. Anyone not planning to track their cars will be deeply considering copying you. I'm not sure why FFR didn't consider this an option, just completes the twin rear humps look. Brilliant...

[thestigwins]

Everything looks great. I have to admit that every night I load up the forum hoping you have posted some sort of update. I love the idea of the hoops. Are you planning to get rid of the hood mount pins as well like wayne did?

[Santiago]

Very cool! I don't doubt this will be a much-desired modification for street cars. The look really fits the car.

Best,
-j

[flynntuna]

+1 the dual hoops look real good. Me thinks your understating your rookie status.

[Aloha818]

Wow! looks amazing, seriously kudos dude. Anyone not planning to track their cars will be deeply considering copying you. I'm not sure why FFR didn't consider this an option, just completes the twin rear humps look. Brilliant...

Everything looks great. I have to admit that every night I load up the forum hoping you have posted some sort of update. I love the idea of the hoops. Are you planning to get rid of the hood mount pins as well like wayne did?

Very cool! I don't doubt this will be a much-desired modification for street cars. The look really fits the car.

Best,
-j

+1 the dual hoops look real good. Me thinks your understating your rookie status.

Thanks all for following my build and I'm glad you like the double hoops also.

Canadian818, I imagine that if FFR started having many options to the base kit that the overall price would have to go up. Negative for many of us. Plus, this lets us get creative in our own way!

Thestigwins, I will be deleting the 4 front hood pins also. Still working out exactly what I'm going to do, but the rough idea is that I will glass in a 1 1/2" wide strip of metal across the rear of the hood, in line with the deleted rear hood pin location. I will arch the strip to match the profile that will be jigged up to the width I need to keep even gaps to the fenders. I will make up some receiving brackets (similar to what I used on the engine cover) that will be welded to the embedded metal strip. Then weld up a bracket that attaches to the frame that will hold into the receiver. These will be located out of the way if the future wiper, and oriented so that after you remove the locking screws in the front, you push the hood rearward about a 1/4" to disengage.

On the front of the hood I will glass in two pieces of metal U shaped metal, glass in supporting steel in the front bumper, that will have 2 screws going up into the hood steel that will be out of sight.

Still a concept at this time, after I finish the rear and sides a I'll start on the front and update.

Santiago, in the spirit of me going after an OEM fit and finish I didn't have a choice not to change. Never seen a production car with a straight across roll bar, only double hoops.

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!

[wleehendrick]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!

You were a rookie when you took on the Cherokee... you're an official gear-head now!

[Oppenheimer]

Wow. That one single mod, dual hoops, by far shakes off more 'kit' from this car than anything else. Its obvious many will be copying this. I'm sure some also thought of it on their own too, but you are the first to do it, and it came out fantastic.

I imagine FFR is seeing how great that looks, and I would expect this to be one of the future refinements they very seriously consider for the 818S MkII. If there is any feasible way to do it, without affecting the cost too much, I imagine they will make it part of the S chassis. It looks that good.

[Xusia]

The double hoops look sick, man!

[flynntuna]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide![/QUOTE]


Whether your a rookie or not is really beside the point. From what I see from your build thread is that you have a real talent in both vision and the execution of that vision. The mods that you have done on your project are trend setting and I'm sure will be copied by a lot of builders in the future.

[Aloha818]

You were a rookie when you took on the Cherokee... you're an official gear-head now!

Thanks! I have always loved cars. I've had Z's, BMW's, Porsche's, etc, and usually had performance mods added (by others of course). I even had a supercharger installed on my H2. But every time I work on my own stuff I learn how much I don't know! Then back for more research.

Wow. That one single mod, dual hoops, by far shakes off more 'kit' from this car than anything else. Its obvious many will be copying this. I'm sure some also thought of it on their own too, but you are the first to do it, and it came out fantastic.

I imagine FFR is seeing how great that looks, and I would expect this to be one of the future refinements they very seriously consider for the 818S MkII. If there is any feasible way to do it, without affecting the cost too much, I imagine they will make it part of the S chassis. It looks that good.

Thanks very much for your comments and I'm glad this mod is meeting with positive feedback. FFR obviously has some talent on board, so I would assume they had to of weighed the pro's and con's of dual/single hoops in the final shipping version. It would seem to me to be a really easy option to add to their list though.

The double hoops look sick, man!

Thank you, thank you. (One for each hoop)

[Aloha818]

Flynntuna, I'm in my early fifties, before 2006 I never changed my own oil. Then watching an episode of Trucks (I think), they rebuilt a 1979 Jeep Cherokee, I thought it look fun, found one cheap, and went for it. Rebuilt the engine, put a 6" lift, paint and body work, you name it. Fun except for the rust! To me I'm a rookie, you decide!

Whether your a rookie or not is really beside the point. From what I see from your build thread is that you have a real talent in both vision and the execution of that vision. The mods that you have done on your project are trend setting and I'm sure will be copied by a lot of builders in the future. [/QUOTE]

My Hula Girl is blushing with pride! Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. All this extra work was not part of my original plan. But since I realized I was going to have to paint the car, coupled with the fact that the more time I spend working on it the more I appreciate the FFR design, made me want to try even harder to build it up to the best of my ability. The car responds well to improvements. The double hoops for me add just a little more to the OEM look I'm going for.

[Aloha818]

For those interested here are a couple more pics of the hoops that show better how they are welded in

Drivers side
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Passenger side
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[Aloha818]

I have just about finished setting the gaps on the trunk and engine cover.

The gap between the engine cover and the trunk I set to about 3/16" and followed the curve of the humps as a guide.
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Setting the gaps is not all about just adding filler. On my kit most of the panels are tight at the bottom of the gap, but really open and rounded at the top. In this pic of the trunk lid you can see that on the bottom of the trunk lid I sanded into the fiberglass, then a thin line of gelcoat, then filler. The edge of the panel is plumb and this much variance in less than 5/8"
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There are variances from side to side of the actual body panels. The height of the engine cover to the fender on the drivers side is really close. In this pic you can see that filer was only required to fill the large radius.
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As apposed to the passenger side which required filler in about 7-8" and about 1/8" thick at the fender side to level out. On both side the lip of the engine cover is notched to be level with the fenders so that the bottom of the trunk would be flat.
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I pretty much finished the sides of the engine cover also today, but was running late and didn't get to take any pics.

[Aloha818]

Ok, so I know that bodywork, body filler, and sanding is boring boring boring. But it has to be done, hopefully by others! But, since I'm a cheapskate and I want it how I want I want it, it's all up to me. It's more fun to read about engine tweaking, performance parts, etc. Before I started I looked at all the previous builds, but not much info on body lines, time frames, products etc. So, right or wrong, here is what I'm doing.

First off, really check your gelcoat for air pockets! Here is a just a couple that I have found so far
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When I find one I try to keep digging around it to make sure I have all the loose material out, and then some.

I also found a couple weird spots on the rear number when I was sanding. One by the drivers taillight and one about in the center of the bumper on the ledge area under my license plate mod. I didn't see them until I was sanding, but it looks like the gelcoat spider cracked from an impact, but there is not any damage and no way to use that logic for the area in the middle of the bumper. So what I did to repair was use my Dremel and cut out the gelcoat, but did not dig into the fiberglass, then just filled with body filler.

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I swear that two different people designed the back and the front. The front gaps are too tight and rear gaps are way too loose. The rear bumper can only attach the the quarter one way and the trunk lid and the engine cover together are almost 1/2" too short to cover the distance. I have added about 1/8" of filler on the back bumper to trunk edge, and between the trunk lid and engine cover about 1/8" of filler, and on the front of the engine cover I have added a good 1/4" of fiberglass with another almost 1/8" of filler.

Another issue is the quarter panel recess to contain the engine cover. The passenger side was rough but close in form and height, the drivers side was way short and very rough. Both sides required building up with filler to get the detail to look right.

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So the way I shaped the top of the quarters was to keep the FFR body line and level across to the engine cover and trunk lid. You can see in the pics that to do so required filler toward the gap. Then coming forward I slowly started letting the flat spot on top of the quarter fad into the body side.

The other area that has kind if had me stumped was how the top of the rear bumper, the top of the quarters, and the side of the quarters all came together. The only close up pic I have seen is Wayne's. Obviously Wayne's car looks great and the extra stripping and paint colors really make it pop. But you can see in his pic that they built up the leading edge of the bumper/trunk gap with filler and how they made all the body lines come together. I tried to shape all the points to flow through each other and keep the body lines going in both directions. This required sanding deep into the gelcoat on the top of the rear bumper. It's hard to see in pics but I think it's coming out as I hoped it would.

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Stay tuned, tomorrow I will show pics with the trunk lid and engine cover in place. All with the edges rounded etc.

As a rough idea of time I have about 40 hours so far in sanding, filling and shaping just the rear area so far. All sanding before and after filler is with 80 grit, then after filler with 180 grit then down to 320 grit to be ready for filler.

[Boog]

Very impressive.

First off, really check your gelcoat for air pockets! Here is a just a couple that I have found so far

What method are you using to check for air pockets? I've seen people use back-lighting but since you coated the back side of the panels that probably doesn't work anymore.

All sanding before and after filler is with 80 grit, then after filler with 180 grit then down to 320 grit to be ready for filler.

So 80, 180, 320, apply filler and repeat ad nauseam?

[carbon fiber]

Glad you found those voids! Two thumbs up for covering the bodywork process in your thread, it'll help a lot of builders that didn't know about voids/fg repairs/bodywork. In my opinion, it should be part of the ffr build manual.

[Brando]

the gelcoat spider cracked from an impact, but there is not any damage and no way to use that logic for the area in the middle of the bumper. So what I did to repair was use my Dremel and cut out the gelcoat, but did not dig into the fiberglass, then just filled with body filler.

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I have a spider crack that matches yours in shape and location. I'm just leaving mine because I fall on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as attention to detail on fit and finish. You are an ANIMAL. Your reveals are looking nearly perfect. I bet your pretty excited to paint this after all your hard work. What color are you going with?