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Thread: Looking for advice on engine mounts

  1. #1
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Looking for advice on engine mounts

    My race motor showed up in its crate today.

    I'm debating on the Group N rubber mounts and trans mount, or should I go for the full Cusco engine mounts? I have never been a fan of solid mounts on our Porsche race motors because of harmonics. What is the thought out there with these motors? I'm leaning towards the Group N, but want to see if there are better examples out there for my 818R.
    Last edited by C.Plavan; 09-30-2013 at 09:30 PM.
    Thanks- Chad
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I have no answer sorry Porsche guy, but what about polyurethane bushings? That's what I run for the motor (very hard rubber on the tranny) and it's just awesome! And my motor, on my VW VR6, is front mounted and FWD, so vibrations would be much of an issue on the steering but it's just amazing.
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  3. #3
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    I can get the Cusco mounts for $312 for the motor mounts and trans mount.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    Frank, poly engine mount/inserts don't really apply to subarus, have them in my teg, but nothing like that is available for the suby. I would go with the group n engine and trans mount personally, they are plenty stiff IMO.
    Last edited by StatGSR; 10-01-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Thanks Wayne- I may be sending you another Paypal payment here soon. I just need to decide.
    Side note: The shifter is awesome- I may need some ideas on how you installed yours later.
    Thanks- Chad
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Plavan View Post
    Thanks Wayne- I may be sending you another Paypal payment here soon. I just need to decide.
    Side note: The shifter is awesome- I may need some ideas on how you installed yours later.
    Ok, the distributor has 18 in stock right now.
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  7. #7
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I have Cusco knockoff engine mounts. Had them in the subie before the 818. Really limited engine movement. Some nvh increase but not terrible.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    Frank, poly engine mount/inserts don't really apply to subarus, have them in my teg, but nothing like that is available for the suby.
    Design reasons that polyU don't apply?
    Frank
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  9. #9
    Senior Member fateo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    Frank, poly engine mount/inserts don't really apply to subarus, have them in my teg, but nothing like that is available for the suby. I would go with the group n engine and trans mount personally, they are plenty stiff IMO.
    I would go with Cusco mounts over Group N. If you have ever had the hood up on a suby and stepped on the gas enough to activate launch control you would see the motor literally moving 3 inches. The Group N mounts are a harder rubber but they are still the same poor design that allows excessive moment.
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  10. #10
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    You don't even need to hit launch control to watch it rock back and forth like a baby swing!
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  11. #11
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    I have the group N mounts and it has very decent engine control. I al also hesitant to run solid mounts.

    I used 3m window adhesive to fill in the top area to limit movement even further.

    sti_d1010fe110_2_lg.jpg
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  12. #12
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Design reasons that polyU don't apply?
    I guess when i hear "poly mounts" I typically think of Energy Suspension and or Prothane poly insert options (i use both in all 5 of the mounts for my integra) and yes, for design reasons these inserts do not exist for subarus. Perrin does offer an engine mount that is made with a poly material though, as expected they cost a small fortune.

    Quote Originally Posted by fateo66 View Post
    I would go with Cusco mounts over Group N. If you have ever had the hood up on a suby and stepped on the gas enough to activate launch control you would see the motor literally moving 3 inches. The Group N mounts are a harder rubber but they are still the same poor design that allows excessive moment.
    the cuscos just look like reworked rubber suspension bushings turned into motor mounts with a couple plates, doesn't really provide much confidence to me. The Group Ns have been used by many without issue, (many more units sold and installed than any other aftermarket option). I know the engine flops around with the stock mounts, but i have also held both an old factory one and the group n's in my hands and i can tell you that the group n doesn't even feel like it is made out of rubber, it is that stiff when you touch it, and i also know that the NVH isn't over the top with them. To top it off, the whole set with the two engine mounts and the tranny mount is the cheapest option at ~$230. only option that is cheaper is the megan racing ones that are a knock off of the group ns.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member fateo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    I guess when i hear "poly mounts" I typically think of Energy Suspension and or Prothane poly insert options (i use both in all 5 of the mounts for my integra) and yes, for design reasons these inserts do not exist for subarus. Perrin does offer an engine mount that is made with a poly material though, as expected they cost a small fortune.



    the cuscos just look like reworked rubber suspension bushings turned into motor mounts with a couple plates, doesn't really provide much confidence to me. The Group Ns have been used by many without issue, (many more units sold and installed than any other aftermarket option). I know the engine flops around with the stock mounts, but i have also held both an old factory one and the group n's in my hands and i can tell you that the group n doesn't even feel like it is made out of rubber, it is that stiff when you touch it, and i also know that the NVH isn't over the top with them. To top it off, the whole set with the two engine mounts and the tranny mount is the cheapest option at ~$230. only option that is cheaper is the megan racing ones that are a knock off of the group ns.

    Yes Cusco mounts have rubber in them (who knows perhaps its the same rubber as the group N mount) but its how they incorporate it that sells me.


    To each their own, I'll agree to disagree on this one.
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  14. #14
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    I'm planning on using some Subaru mounts ( same as Group-N I believe ) , part numbers STI D1010FE120 and STI D1010FE110 for the engine and STI D1010FE020 for the transmission. I saw somethere that the engine mounts use Subaru 902380007 nuts. I don't anticipate needing new nuts, but good info to have just in case.

    I was also looking into a transmission crossmember bushing kit ( Subaru STI B4100FG000 or Kartboy KAR KB-025 ) , but wasn't even sure if this is applicable on the 818. If anybody has any insight on this, let me know.

  15. #15
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Dan

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  16. #16
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    The transmission cross member bushing goes between the two transmission support braces. Scoobymods install

    It looks like the transmission mounts directly to the chassis and will not need an additional bushing.
    TransMountPoint.jpg

  17. #17
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    <didn't realize how old this discussion was, oops. I'll leave this info here for future reference though>

    I will be using torque solutions engine mounts on my S:
    http://www.torquesolution.com/Subaru.../ts-su-200.htm

    Picked them up used -owner said they were pretty harsh, but I don't have hands on experience with them yet (sorry). They're definitely going to be stiffer than group N, probably harsher than Cusco also.
    Last edited by mikeb75; 04-26-2014 at 06:53 AM. Reason: old thread, oops

  18. #18
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    They're definitely going to be stiffer than group N, probably harsher than Cusco also.
    I'm seeing the Group-N engine mounts listed as having a durometer rating of 88A compared the Torque Solutions mounts at 75A. Everything is taken with a grain of salt, but I think the Group-N bushings will be stiffer.
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2233376

  19. #19
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    I am using the torquesolutions mounts on my 818s. As far as I can tell they are stiffer than group N. with the car running and moving around it vibrates less than my 06 mustang with poly engine mounts if that means anything to you. I even overtorqued and broke a stud on one of the mounts and torquesolutions replaced it for free.

  20. #20
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    I'm using stock mounts, don't see a need for anything else for road racing. I have been using the stock mounts in my Challenge car w/o any issues and it gets the tar beat out of it.
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  21. #21
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    Just buy MSI solid mounts and be done. LOL. Jk

    I like the gr.N mounts and have used them on many cars.

  22. #22
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    I believe there is a lot less bushing in the torque solution design, so even if the bushing is less hard there is less material to flex.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb75 View Post
    I believe there is a lot less bushing in the torque solution design, so even if the bushing is less hard there is less material to flex.
    Good point. It's probably the different design that causes it to be a stiffer mount than group-n.

  24. #24
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    Just wondering now that there may be more units on the road. has anyone had any issues using the stock mounts. everyone states the engine moves a lot with the stock mounts, does this pose problems with the exhaust holes in the body if I decide to run them there? there are a lot of tight clearances on this car, i guess i am trying to get some more input before i drop my motor in. any advice and opinions are welcome...thanks.

    Doug

  25. #25
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    I'd do some stiffer mounts myself
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  26. #26
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    MSI solid mounts. Also have the added benefit of lowering the engine about 8mm.

    Or for in between, there are the Beatrush mounts, which I ran on my spec C. Considerably stiffer than the group N or cusco, but still a bit more give than the solids.

  27. #27
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    read some more articles on nasioc..... i think i will go with the group N's
    Thanks for the input.

  28. #28
    Senior Member D Clary's Avatar
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    I am going with stock mounts unless I have problems. I don't like solid or overly stiff mounts bolted to aluminum, tends to break stuff. I would rather change a mount than weld up a block or trans. Just my 2 cents.

  29. #29
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Just an FYI- This post from me was back last Sept. I went Group N, but I'm sure others still need this info.
    Thanks- Chad
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Brando's Avatar
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    I went Cusco. Motor still seems to shift a decent amount, no broken aluminum thus far, only rod bearings

  31. #31
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    As long as they are torqued properly, you aren't going to break a block with solid aluminum motor mounts. The bolts will sheer before the block cracks.

    If you over torque them it can cause stress fracture issues. But you are more likely to crack the mount than the block.

    However, since boxers don't have harmonic dampeners, if your rotating assembly isn't very well balanced, solid motor mounts will shake a filling or two loose on the street.

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  32. #32
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    anyone know of actual differences between the torque solutions, cusco, and beatrush motor mounts?

    they all look like the same design...

  33. #33
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    Does anyone know the torque specs. from the engine and transmission mount to the frame? I am seeing a lot higher numbers than the FFR manual.

    70 for engine and 103 for transmission.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaw777 View Post
    Does anyone know the torque specs. from the engine and transmission mount to the frame? I am seeing a lot higher numbers than the FFR manual.

    70 for engine and 103 for transmission.
    trq.jpg

    trq2.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-31-2014 at 02:15 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaw777 View Post

    70 for engine and 103 for transmission.
    Those numbers sound high. They sound more like the torque for the bolts that go from the mount to the engine or trans. I know if you try to tighten the trans mount to frame bolts that tight you will likely strip the nut or bolt. I know because I did on my donor mount. Didn't tighten my new Group N mounts as much.

    Larry

  36. #36
    Senior Member philly15's Avatar
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    just looked it up in the manual, engine mount is 62.7 ft lbs. transmission is only like 26 ft lbs. the cross member bolts for the trans are 51.6. i went by this for the engine, and for the trans i felt like 26 was kinda light so i just did the 51.6. seems legit to me.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    We went with the Group N mounts. $209 shipped for the engine and transmission mounts from Subarugenuineparts.com.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Watch the engine movement when the clutch is pushed in.
    This is forth gear. The torque on the axle is 3 times greater in 1st gear.
    We definitely need stronger mounts and/or a pitch stop.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member D Clary's Avatar
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    818 rear mount 001.JPGI added this mount to the rear of the transaxle. It is a torque strut off of an 03 Impala. You could probably use a subie one but this one was 12 bucks.

  40. #40
    Director of R&D, FFR Jim Schenck's Avatar
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    Perrin makes both Poly engine and trans mounts, they are expensive but very nice parts. Our blue car has group N mounts and red car has the Perrins, less engine movement in the red car but not excessive in the blue one.
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