Looking for advice on engine mounts

[Drew P]

I have the Group N mounts on my WRX. There was definitely a noticeable difference over stock. The recommendation from my local Subaru shop was to go with those over the Cusco mounts since it is mainly driven on the street. For an 818R, that probably isn't going to be a big concern so I would go with the Cusco mounts or solid mounts.

[Turn In Concepts]

With what I have seen so far a trans mount far stiffer than a group n would be good. Group N will work for the engine, but I would do a Cusco mount or similar for the trans due to the torque multiplication.

Let us know if you guys need anything. We have been selling these mounts and making our own for 10 years now for Subarus.

Tony

[Hindsight]

While we are on the subject of engine mounts, is it just me or does $350 for a pair of engine mounts seem insane? That's what the Perrin ones cost.

[Turn In Concepts]

Get the group N for the engine mounts. They are $145 and more than stiff enough for handling movements of the motor.

Tony

[Turn In Concepts]

Get the group N for the engine mounts. They are $145 and more than stiff enough for handling movements of the motor.

http://turninconcepts.com/group-n-engine-mount-set.html

Tony

[Hindsight]

Are they capable of handling 400 WHP and a lot of abuse?

[Turn In Concepts]

Yes. The only time they are really stressed is under heavy launching. I have seen a few fail under this condition, but that is all.

Tony

[RM1SepEx]

you have a group N transaxle mount???

I'm installing my Cusco engine and transaxle mounts right now along with my STI pan, windage tray and pickup, they are orders of magnatude stiffer. I'm worried about engine movement and exhaust going through the bodywork

[ewingate]

Here is a gopro video I made while doing initial go kart testing. It's a short cruise and I don't think I went past second gear but it shows all the engine movement on stock 2002 motor and tranny mounts.

[JeromeS13]

That AWIC looks familiar! Haha

[billjr212]

1 thing that was mentioned very early on in the 818 forums was developing a way to re-use of the pitch stop. I'm surprised in all the discussions here, the pitch stop seems to be ignored and forgotten. I'm sure there must be a way to develop a small bracket that mounts to the strut tower brace to re-use the OEM pitch stop, which should ultimately limit movement in all directions. I am going to be using Group N motor and trans mounts but also plan to look into using the pitch stop and welding up a small bracket as necessary.

[wleehendrick]

Here is a gopro video I made while doing initial go kart testing.

Cool... is that a Flowmaster Super 10? I have one, but haven't completed my exhaust yet. Exhaust doesn't seem too loud, it looks like you have a cat in there too? Also, what BOV/BPV do you have? Doesn't sound like anything else I've heard.

1 thing that was mentioned very early on in the 818 forums was developing a way to re-use of the pitch stop. I'm surprised in all the discussions here, the pitch stop seems to be ignored and forgotten. I'm sure there must be a way to develop a small bracket that mounts to the strut tower brace to re-use the OEM pitch stop, which should ultimately limit movement in all directions. I am going to be using Group N motor and trans mounts but also plan to look into using the pitch stop and welding up a small bracket as necessary.

I also have Group N mounts, but would love to utilize the pitch-stop for additional stability. With all the creativity on the forums, I'm hoping someone will step up to sell a kit! (Craig, are you listening?)

[Rasmus]

1 thing that was mentioned very early on in the 818 forums was developing a way to re-use of the pitch stop.

Seeing ewingate's video I have to agree. While the power train wasn't bouncing all around there's a lot more movement there than I thought. My first thought was, "Need to find a way to install the pitch stop mount".

[ewingate]

Cool... is that a Flowmaster Super 10? I have one, but haven't completed my exhaust yet. Exhaust doesn't seem too loud, it looks like you have a cat in there too? Also, what BOV/BPV do you have? Doesn't sound like anything else I've heard.

Yep I am using the Flowmaster cat and Super 10 muffler. It's a bit loud but I come from a loud Evo/Sti background so it sounds amazing to me! The BOV is the Turbosmart Race Port from JeromeS along with the AWIC setup

[RM1SepEx]

1 thing that was mentioned very early on in the 818 forums was developing a way to re-use of the pitch stop. I'm surprised in all the discussions here, the pitch stop seems to be ignored and forgotten. I'm sure there must be a way to develop a small bracket that mounts to the strut tower brace to re-use the OEM pitch stop, which should ultimately limit movement in all directions. I am going to be using Group N motor and trans mounts but also plan to look into using the pitch stop and welding up a small bracket as necessary.

I've played with it, just no bolt on solution yet...

[Drew P]

It is definitely shocking how much the stock mounts are letting everything move around in that video. I would have thought everything would have been a lot more stable. Maybe those '02 mounts were worn out? If not, I think it is safe to say that Group N should be the minimum and you should go with something stiffer if you are doing anything with a higher HP output than a stock motor.

[biknman]

I got these coming; http://www.allspeedinnovations.com/a...-engine-mounts



http://www.iwsti.com/forums/vendor-a...novations.html

[longislandwrx]

MSI dropped the price on theirs. they are only $195 now

MSIsub05-00-003

http://www.mooresport.com/indexe.php...-engine-mounts

[matteo92065]

Here is my pitch stop mount...
IMG_9189 (1).JPG

[D Clary]

I mounted mine at the rear, seemed like better leverage.

[MrDude_1]

I guess when i hear "poly mounts" I typically think of Energy Suspension and or Prothane poly insert options (i use both in all 5 of the mounts for my integra) and yes, for design reasons these inserts do not exist for subarus. Perrin does offer an engine mount that is made with a poly material though, as expected they cost a small fortune.

Perrin makes both Poly engine and trans mounts, they are expensive but very nice parts. Our blue car has group N mounts and red car has the Perrins, less engine movement in the red car but not excessive in the blue one.

While we are on the subject of engine mounts, is it just me or does $350 for a pair of engine mounts seem insane? That's what the Perrin ones cost.

Just so you guys know, the Perrin engine mounts are nothing more than Energy Suspension GM Transmission mounts. part 3.1108 About $23 each. Used to be $12, I guess the cost went up.
They're good mounts, Ive used them on 800+hp 3000lb drag cars and street cars. The 818 will never break them. Perrin makes an angled plate to bolt the trans mount to, and the plate on the otherside is flat.
Anyone with a small manual mill could make a set for the cost of the mounts($46) and some scrap plate.

[longislandwrx]

http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...04-15-sti.html

that's some pretty fancy machining to do on a manual mill, granted it wouldn't need to look as pretty.

[MrDude_1]

http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...04-15-sti.html

that's some pretty fancy machining to do on a manual mill, granted it wouldn't need to look as pretty.

Its a flat plate with one angle cut on it. Anything else you do is just for weight/looks.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I posted my transmission movement on my thread post 276

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...260#post176260

[wleehendrick]

I got my new motor/tranny mounts (Group N for all) installed this past weekend.

The motor mounts look somewhat beefier than stock, but the transmission mount is built MUCH more solid. where the stock mount has just a few square inches of rubber connecting the metal plates, the Group N must have 4x the material, and harder. Here's a photo I found that shows the difference:

SP_A0091.jpg

While it may not be as solid as some of the pricier aftermarket mounts, I have to think it'll be a big improvement. I can't verify this until I go-cart, but seeing how anemic the stock tranny mount is built, I'm not surprised at all the movement people are seeing in a 2WD 818 with no pitch-stop.

Unfortunately, I think I misplaced my mounting hardware, so I need to source a few new flange nuts to install; can someone confirm that they're M10-1.25?

[Jaime]

I got STi transmission mounts from NASIOC for like $20. They have as much rubber as the Group N mounts in your picture, but the rubber isn't as solid. I haven't looked at my engine while the car is running, but I haven't seen any indication that it's moving that much. My coolant fill tank is pretty close to my wastegate actuator and I've not seen any signs of contact yet. My fill tank is bolted to the frame, not the engine.

[tmoretta]

The Impala strut is not a bad idea, but it will not keep the front of the engine from lifting 2-3 inches in first gear. Something must be fashioned (engine torque brace) to control engine movement. I am building a torque brace using a GM trans. mount above the alternator. Pictures will follow soon.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The Impala strut is not a bad idea, but it will not keep the front of the engine from lifting 2-3 inches in first gear. Something must be fashioned (engine torque brace) to control engine movement. I am building a torque brace using a GM trans. mount above the alternator. Pictures will follow soon.

I just ordered some harder rubber trans and motor mounts. I was thinking of putting the dog bone from the air conditioner compressor bracket to the firewall. I'm going to hold off until I see what you do with the gm trans mount.
Bob

[metalmaker12]

I have group n mounts all around. I am going to make a custom solid tranny mount from my wrx tranny mount to see if it lessions the movement even more. I have to say the groupe n mounts are ideal because there wicked soild and not harsh like solid mounts. I am also making a pitch mount on the cross brace and tranny case.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I have group n mounts all around. I am going to make a custom solid tranny mount from my wrx tranny mount to see if it lessions the movement even more. I have to say the groupe n mounts are ideal because there wicked soild and not harsh like solid mounts. I am also making a pitch mount on the cross brace and tranny case.

I also thought about the pitch stop going to the crossbar. During 1G acceleration there is about 2000 ft-lbs of torque going to the wheels. So you have the same reactive torque on the engine/trans assembly. I don't know split on how much force goes to each mounting point. I was worried that the crossbar (shock tower bar) would bend. Maybe I'll fire off an email to Jim for his advice.
Bob

[Jaime]

If you ignore roll along the fore/aft axis, the engine and transmission mounts will see the same load. Since the engine doesn't float away or drop out the bottom of the car, the torque induced downwards force on the transmission mount must be equal to the torque induced upwards force on the engine mounts. Since the two are about 30 inches apart, that force would be about 800 pounds each. That's 800 on the pair of engine mounts, or 400 each.

If you add a pitch stop, the force on the pitch stop will depend on its effectiveness. If it holds the engine perfectly fixed, then nearly all the reaction torque will be going through the pitch stop. If it does almost nothing, then it will have very little force on it. The ideal place for it would be high and forward on the engine connecting to a lower point on the chassis, like the bar at the top rear of the tank.

If you connect a pitch stop to the middle of the shock tower brace, expect about a ton of force to be developed there. That force is in the center of a four foot beam. This page tells me that the brace will bend almost an inch under that load. The 1.5" tube in front of the engine should only deflect about 0.02".

[Jaime]

Keep in mind that adding a pitch stop changes the dynamics of the system. Connecting to the shock tower brace will change the forces on the rubber mounts. Instead of down force in back and up force in front, there will be a large forward component induced in both to counter the pitch stop load. Connecting the pitch stop in front of the engine will almost completely unload the engine mounts and double the downward load on the transmission mounts.

[metalmaker12]

I also thought about the pitch stop going to the crossbar. During 1G acceleration there is about 2000 ft-lbs of torque going to the wheels. So you have the same reactive torque on the engine/trans assembly. I don't know split on how much force goes to each mounting point. I was worried that the crossbar (shock tower bar) would bend. Maybe I'll fire off an email to Jim for his advice.
Bob

I doubt it would bend, it's much stronger then the stock mount

[Scargo]

In the picture matteo92065 posted of his installation of a pitch stop, I believe if the pitch stop were shorter and reversed in the bracket that hangs from the shock tower crossbar so that it faces forward and attaches to the hole in the top of the transaxle that it would then function better for the intended purpose. In my STi the pitch stop looks to tilt down slightly towards the engine from the firewall. What I'm proposing would more closely mimic the stock configuration.
As far as strength of the crossbar goes, I was surprised at the light gauge of some of the tubing in the frame.
However, the pitch stop brackets in my STi are all thin sheetmetal but their plane, as a thin sheet, is in the direction of compression, but mounted against a sheetmetal firewall. I don't know about how the firewall is reinforced internally. Anecdotally, I can say that my firewall buckled when I careened off the Armco at Watkins Glen at 100.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I asked Jim Schenck @ FRR his advice in motor mounts and pitch stop.
Below is his answer.

Bob,
We cut down the movement by a large amount using the group N mounts so I would try just using those first and see if you still feel the need to add anything. If you still need it I think going forward from the engine to the rear bulkhead would be much stronger than hitting the shock tower cross-brace. If that is to hard to package then putting it down near the trans mount would be my next choice. (because of the length of the lever at the transmission it doesn't need to be as heavy duty down there)
Jim

[Harley818]

Unfortunately, I think I misplaced my mounting hardware, so I need to source a few new flange nuts to install; can someone confirm that they're M10-1.25?[/QUOTE]

Hi wleehendrix, yes I checked last night..... they are M10-1.25


Also, I installed my group N trans mount a couple days ago. It is very much improved and stiffer than stock. Full rubber rather than 3 smaller sections as shown in your picture. I'm hoping it will stiffen up the movement quite a bit. I also have type N motor mounts.

[Samiam1017]

I set my motor in a few days ago(not bolted in) and I just noticed the trans is spaced up 1/2in the motor mounts are setting flat?? The motor mounts are a aftermarket mount that was on a donor car I parted and the trans is a groupn. Any body else have there's set in like this? I'm gonna try and lift the motor with the hoist to see if settles into place better. I don't know how to post pictures but if somebody want them I can text to them and they can post? Thx.

[Scargo]

I see this set of Cusco mounts for the engine and tranny for just over $300. These are legit?

[Wayne Presley]

Or you could get them from me for the same price

[RM1SepEx]

I see this set of Cusco mounts for the engine and tranny for just over $300. These are legit?

When I changed to my STI pan etc I also added these Cusco mounts, restart soon, must prep for winter storm tomorrow first!