Brake routing suggestions- Post your pics

[Harley818]

Hindsight, I used a tubing bender I bought from Harbour Freight. works great. I also used a hint from AZPete to just bend it around a suitable sized socket. Both methods worked well.

[Harley818]

Hindsight, here is a picture of the tubing bender. I think it was about $10 or so. This provided really tight predictable bends. Bending around a socket helped for bends that were approximate or larger diameter.
DSCF4712.jpgDSCF4713.jpg

[Harley818]

Here's a better picture of my master cylinders and proportional valve set up.
my goal was to keep it out of the way as much as possible.
DSCF4727.jpg

[Samiam1017]

whats the best routing of the parking brake lines? and im sure this was asked before but I cant seem to find an explaination to why the proportioning valve is used on he front brakes

[wleehendrick]

Samiam,

Do you mean the rear brake lines or the parking/e brake cables? The prop valve goes on the front lines beacause on the 818, the weight distribution has been shifted rearward greatly. The stock brake setup was biased for a front heavy Subaru. The 818 needs more brakes on the rear. Ideally you would upsize the rear rotors to be balance mechanically, but the bpv will help the stock rear brakes do a little more.

[metros]

Wish I had used a smaller sized tubing bender. My bends are all much longer than what you've posted.

Working on finishing up the front end today.

[Samiam1017]

Ya I mean the brake cables not the hydraulic lines. I think I like Bob's idea of the legacy rear rotors. I got a pair of 5x100 still rear rotors to try something out but the parking brake hub size is quite a bit larger and I haven't had time to see what else is needed to make them work.

[wleehendrick]

I havn't run my brake cables yet, but there doesnt seem to be more than one way... From the handle, over the fuel tank, split them around the motor and along each trailing arm. Any other details?

[Samiam1017]

I built a rear firewall. so I guess im asking a general location where they would pass thru. woulda been smarter to figure that out before I put he firewall in and motor..

[metros]

^I also put up a firewall. I made cut outs dead center and on each side to allow pass through for wiring/lines/etc.

[Harley818]

I just ran the brake cables along the trailing link and through the firewall where the link connects.
I wanted to be able to remove the firewall in the future without taking out alot of connections, wires, etc.
The center insulated part of the firewall is removable, the outer portions will be rivetted and covered with insulation.........or I may leave the go-faster cleco's like Bob & Cincy.

Here's two pics, and there are more in my build thread.
DSCF4671.jpgDSCF4732.jpg

[Scargo]

Are there one or two radii that you commonly bend to? Like 1"R or 1-1/2"R? I want to buy cheap 3/16" diameter wire pulleys. 1-1/2" to 3-1/2" diameters are readily available or I might turn my own...

[Harley818]

Scargo, just use a 20, 21mm (or whatever larger size you want) socket. Mine bent really easily around those just holding them in my hand.
I also bought a tubing bender that worked just as well, but not as fast.

[Scargo]

Thanks Harley. With my 22 impact socket that works out to a 5/8" inside radius. Seems tight, but what do I know? I guess you don't want it sticking out too much and flopping in the breeze... vibrating. Does it have much spring-back?

[Harley818]

No not much springback, and the brake lines from FFR actually bend pretty easily.

[Scargo]

Thanks Harley. I've got some 2" aluminum I can make a bending mandrel from. As I said on my build thread I just bought a bunch of stuff... I ordered SS hard tubing for brake lines, 10 mm male inverted flare nuts (no bas*tard mix of SAE and Metric/Subaru fittings for me), SS braided, PTFE-lined hose for the Tilton reservoirs to Tilton master cylinders and adapters from -3 AN to female 10mm inverted flare. I guess I will use the Wilwood proportioning valve but I'll have to cut off a couple of SAE nuts from the provided FFR lines to adapt it.
Whew! Figuring all that out took a lot of time and investigating. Tilton didn't make it any easier. The Tilton reservoir to pedal box cylinders uses -4 AN fittings and exits on the pressure end with -3 AN female. Finding the transition fittings to metric took time. Terminology or naming also slowed me down. Just learned that JIC and AN are the same except for tighter thread tolerances for real AN. Seems most stuff called "AN" is really JIC grade.
10 x 1.0 MM is the normal Japanese brake thread size (can you say Subaru?) and also what's on my Stoptechs. I wished FFR would ditch the US standard/SAE adapters and fully base the kit on the Subaru compatible parts and Metric. They had to include a couple of metric bolts for the suspension. Why the mix and adapters?

[Harley818]

I agree.
If they are building a world car, then it should be based on the same fasteners as the donor.
I bought a few 10mm x 3/16 brake line connectors to make it easy.
Using SS hard tubing i can see why you want to bend to a larger diameter.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

where ever I needed metric I used these.
http://store.fedhillusa.com/22nutpack.aspx

edit: Pack of 12 for 16.20 ($1.35 ea)

[Scargo]

I have been all over Fedhill's site and couldn't find a couple of things. I was buying stuff on Summit's site and found Dorman's for 1/3 less. I also found an Earl's adapter for my Tilton master cylinders. Still can't find the Tees, except in the UK.*
Harley, by "hard" I meant hard brake lines versus the flexible ones at the wheels or the flexible, high-pressure line that one of the guys here ran from front to back. Reviews of the SS line on Summit's site were interesting. A couple said it was difficult to use/hard to do a double flare while others said it was easy to use "with the right flaring tools". So, to be different and make life more difficult and take the road less traveled, I went for it.

* Yay! Perseverance! http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/universal-brake-line-tees.html Universal Brake Line Tees, Female 10mmx1.0 Inverted - Brass

[Scargo]

Received the T's from of all places, Low Range Off-Road. They seem well-made and have the mounting hole.

Plated brass, they get me closer to my goal of all Metric, double-flares like the Subaru has.

[JeffS]

_DSC0023.jpg

_DSC0019.jpg

_DSC0020.jpg


Plastic clips are from McMaster. The ABS mounting bracket was trimmed and formed from the donor bracket.

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

_DSC0023.jpg _DSC0019.jpg _DSC0020.jpg
Plastic clips are from McMaster. The ABS mounting bracket was trimmed and formed from the donor bracket.
Jeff

Jeff
Great NEAT job mounting all the abs lines.
Would you like to come over an redo mine.

I hate to ask this question.
Do you think the ABS will bleed properly with it mounted sideways?
I hope it will for your sake.
Bob

[JeffS]

Hi Bob:

I mounted the ABS module in the exact same orientation as it came out of my 2006 WRX donor. So hopefully I won't have too much trouble.

Jeff

[JeffS]

Bob:

I just went back and looked at the manual.... maybe I didn't mount it as it came out. I guess we will have to wait and see how bleeding goes.....

Thanks for the heads-up... Jeff

[Scargo]

Let me ask a newbie-like ABS brake system question:
It has been my understanding that with ABS a proportioning valve was not workable. Perhaps there IS a configuration where it will work in harmony with the ABS valve body and electronics. Perhaps it's just that I don't understand the fluid dynamics and how it all works. I thought the two braking systems (within ABS system) were cris-crossed. I guess you could plumb the ABS valve to be front and rear but how would the computer see this and how would it react?

I wanted to have bias adjustability on my '08 STi track car. I have a 14" BBK on the front and sometimes the rear wants to waggle a bit. Looking into it I deemed I could not add a biasing valve. Please educate me if I'm wrong.

That is the best looking brake line installation I have ever seen. Nice work. A high bar! Thanks for the tip on the McMaster-Carr clips.

[Hindsight]

It will work. You just need to use two prop valves instead of one. You use one valve for the front left and one for the front right.

[Scargo]

Please clarify where they go. Right after the master cylinder?
I am having trouble seeing all of Jeff's routing in the three photos. It appears Jeff is using only one. I need a schematic...

[Hindsight]

You put it between the ABS unit and the line that goes to the front wheel caliper. The ABS pump has 6 ports: Two in, and four out. The out ports provide one port per wheel. So for the two front wheels, you just splice a single valve into each line.

I think where you are getting confused is in the whole bit about the front left being "tied" to the right rear and front right being tied to the left rear. My understanding is that this is all handled internally in the ABS pump. So inside the pump, when the pump pulses one of the wheels, it actually has to pulse two of the wheels (front left + right rear, etc), even though it has a single brake line going to each.

At least, that is my understanding.

[Scargo]

Thanks. That makes sense. At the last opportunity you insert a proportioning valve into each front brake line and it just affects the front brakes, yet they are still acting in concert with the ABS modulation, but perhaps with a more damped effect. Of course!
I must get busy!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Scargo,
The oem Subaru has a non adjustable dual proportional valve in the back wheels.



You just need to put 2 adjustable Prop-valves in the front wheels and remove the oem unit from the back wheels.

If you are upgrading the rear brakes. You may not want the valves in the front.
I am running no proportional valves righty now with my double size rear calipers. I like it.
Bob

[bbjones121]

Scargo,
The oem Subaru has a non adjustable dual proportional valve in the back wheels.



You just need to put 2 adjustable Prop-valves in the front wheels and remove the oem unit from the back wheels.

If you are upgrading the rear brakes. You may not want the valves in the front.
I am running no proportional valves righty now with my double size rear calipers. I like it.
Bob

Isnt it adjustable? I think it is just an allen wrench. I hope it is, i was just going to use that instead of purchasing another wilwood.

[Scargo]

I'd like to know who's put proportioning valves on each of the front brakes? While this discussion seems to be getting off topic I don't know what to do about it.
In my research I see that we have discussed this before and I don't know if there was resolution with any certainty. I posted this Stoptech link about proportioning valves in that discussion. In it, it says don't do proportioning valves in series and to not put them on the front!
And a different discussion about retaining/using ABS in the 818.

[bbjones121]

_DSC0023.jpg

_DSC0019.jpg

_DSC0020.jpg


Plastic clips are from McMaster. The ABS mounting bracket was trimmed and formed from the donor bracket.

Jeff

Nice job Jeff! I kept a bunch of those plastic OEM clips also to use like you did, now i just need to find them.

I was going to mount it in the same location that you have, but I am trying to figure out how the vintage air heater/AC unit is going to route. I hope it doesn't get in the way.

[bbjones121]

I'd like to know who's put proportioning valves on each of the front brakes? While this discussion seems to be getting off topic I don't know what to do about it.
In my research I see that we have discussed this before and I don't know if there was resolution with any certainty. I posted this Stoptech link about proportioning valves in that discussion. In it, it says don't do proportioning valves in series and to not put them on the front!
And a different discussion about retaining/using ABS in the 818.

No discussions outside of these forums on manufacturers websites will have much that relates to an 1800lb mid engine car. And factory five has confirmed the proportional valve for the front. They obviously must have taken the car in a parking lot and went through a bunch of tires. I am guessing without it, there is little to no braking being done by the rear and it severely unbalanced

[TouchStone]

The problem I see with using 2 proportioning valves, one for each of the front brakes, is how do you expect to keep the left and right braking power exactly the same? Subaru routed the ABS brake lines FL/RR and FR/RL as safety so if you lost brake pressure in one of your brake lines (primary or secondary) you would still have braking power to one front and one right wheel. As this is not critical we do not need to follow the markings on the abs module exactly.

You can use a single prop valve on one of the ABS inlets and routing the 2 outlets for that inlet to the front brakes. You will have to change the abs sensor wires accordingly. This way you can use a single prop valve for the front and maintain full functionality of the abs module.

So inside the pump, when the pump pulses one of the wheels, it actually has to pulse two of the wheels (front left + right rear, etc), even though it has a single brake line going to each. .

Not true, each outlet has its own control solenoid.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi touchstone,
I agree with your diagram above. One of my cars is plumbed that way, but no PV.
Do you think the abs algorithms are the same for front vs rear wheels?
Bob

[TouchStone]

Hi touchstone,
I agree with your diagram above. One of my cars is plumbed that way, but no PV.
Do you think the abs algorithms are the same for front vs rear wheels?
Bob

I don't really know, if its different that diagram may not be 100% effective. This statement from the manual has given me some doubts:

abs.JPG​<--Picture (click to zoom)

[bbjones121]

You go to a parking lot with crappy tires a lock them up with abs off. You should be able to dial in the two adjustments, Subaru is able to do it with the rear. That is why I believe the OEM rear proportional valve is adjustable.

[JeffS]

My system is plumbed exactly as TouchStone's diagram in post #75 with swapped ports and swapped sensor inputs to match.

I had a long conversation with Wayne Prestley at last year's open house about this very subject and he assured me that one prop valve (in the front) and swapped ports works fine and is the way to go. My brakes are 2006 WRX donor front and back so they definitely need proportioning to keep the fronts from premature lock-up.

Wayne is a strong proponent of ABS, and has way more practical experience building cars with ABS than anyone else I could find, so that's what I went with.

[bbjones121]

oem is definitely not adjustable.