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Thread: Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

  1. #641
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I understand that and try to feel that way. I know you are right Hindsight! Tnx.
    However I got a bunch of disappointments today.

    My brake master cylinder is leaking. Right in the middle at the bottom between the cylinder and FFR alu bracket. I have no picture. I clean it up, 2h later there's a leak. I don't know why my mech didn't see that before I got the car back. Will have to spend a lot of time fixing this.
    My clutch master cylinder is awfully leaking. I have to swap the cylinder with my old 2003 NA one and still use the WRX reservoir (the NA reservoir is too wide and hits on the frame tube).

    I am very frustrated. And this has nothing to do with the VR6. I can't accept non-VR6 issues (loll I'm dreaming), everything should go well so that I can waste my time fixing the VR6 issues, but no, it ain't going that way.

    Mike Everson's brake reservoir kit's lines don't seem to be good for brake fluid, they are leaking through.

    2015-09-13 08.01.04.jpg


    I spent 9h today on the car. 6h to get the ride height. 6. Not 6mins, 6hours. Then 2.5h to get the rear wheels aligned. Not fully aligned, just back and forth with the control arm so that they fit centered within the fender/bumper. It's gonna take me days to have a perfect ride height and alignment on this car, it's crazy. And how can I center the wheels if I don't fit the side sails in the right place? I need the whole body for that, so screw that, I won't spend 3 months doing that just to get measurements.

    0.5h finding about the damn brake cylinder (I already knew about the stupid damn clutch).

    These 9h (or 8.5) were a pre-requisite just to get the right measurement for my custom drive shafts. How cool.

    Really, since I got the car back home with the engine in, it's been the toughest part of the build yet. And far most frustrating.

    If I try to stay funny, here's how I set ride height.

    2015-09-13 13.40.40.jpg

    Of course it's a joke. Actually I found the fender to be quite high over the wheel, there's a lot of space. Not sure why. I have 2-2.5in of space at the top over the tire.

    And this is about the vertical angle my shafts will have. Bad, uh? Don't have the choice (yes, the car was at ride height on this picture, with added weight all around 4 corners to compensate for body, pass seat and other stuff).

    2015-09-13 14.59.53.jpg
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-13-2015 at 08:12 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  2. #642
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    what i've found is that 20-22* of angle is the most you want for the inner cv... looks like you're still within that.

  3. #643
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Phew, tnx for that man... should help not stress about that compromise. It seems to be a 10-15-deg angle, I'll see if I can measure one day once I get my shafts.

    Speaking of shafts... I mean drive shafts! Don't think of anything else. I placed my order today. DSS is working on it. I am shipping my spare rear hubs to them tomorrow.

    This is a picture of my leaking brake master.

    2015-09-14 05.41.28.jpg

    I think I'll use my Permatex sealant resistant to any fluid. It doesn't leak inside the car or pedal box, I'll take my chances. Worst case I have to remove the master, which I would if I do it now, so I'll give the sealant a chance.

    I am also reading stuff to prep myself for SS welding my intake and exhaust piping. I gotta buy some proper filler and proper mix of gases. 97.5% Ar and 2.5% CO2 seems the best I think, though some mentioned 90% He + 7.5% Ar + 2.5% CO2 for flatter weld beads and good fusion to base plate. But more expensive and since I'm a newb, I guess I won't see any difference. I am not sure yet if I will use carbon steel or SS piping for the exhaust, since steel is super cheap (1/3 of SS here) and I will wrap it anyway. But then it becomes a little more tricky when welding to SS flanges or SS muffler or any SS part. Also I am unsure about the long term capacity of carbon steel for high temps at the turbo outlet.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  4. #644
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    If your master is leaking, I wouldn't just seal the evidence of the leak with Permatex. The seal on the piston inside the cylinder is shot and you don't want to have brake power issues (which you will have soon if you don't immediately when you start driving it) because of that. I would suggest either rebuilding the master cylinder (if you can find replacement components) or getting a new one (~$89 from Rock Auto).

  5. #645
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    Frank - are you MIG welding all your exhaust components? I have read tri mix is probably the best but 98/2 is a decent alternative. I have done stainless welding with 100% AR and its gotten the job done but it isn't a nice bead and the welding is a bit fickle.

    I'd really like to pick up a Thermal Arc 95S with TIG torch kit for this kind of thin wall welding and use the MIG for tack welds and mild carbon steel only.

  6. #646
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I bought a new master from NewAutoPArts in CA on ebay for $60. + shipping. + Customs. + $CAD exchange rate.

    Also about the brake lines "perspiring", Mike and I came to the conclusion it's cuz of DOT5 brake fluid. For some reasons DOT5 does not work with these lines. I'll simply buy 3.8 and 1/2 oil/coolant lines to fix the issue, it's less expensive than changing the fluid.


    Choobs, yes I plan on welding all my components, from flanges, to bungs, pipes and hangers. Looks like I'll have to practice good before I weld the real parts, don't want to mess that up.
    98/2 that's 98 Ar or He?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  7. #647
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    98/2 is 98% Ar, 2% CO2. Here is a nice little chart showing different mixes and a description of how the shielding gas effects the weld. I'm pretty sure most MIG welders us garage engineers use would be of the pulsed arc variety.

    http://smt.sandvik.com/en/products/w...gases-for-mig/

  8. #648
    Senior Member DodgyTim's Avatar
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    Hi Frank
    DOT 5 is a silicon based fluid and is incompatible with other DOT fluids. DOT 5.1 has the same dry and wet boiling points, with less hassles.


    From wikipedia
    Minimal boiling points for these specifications are as follows (wet boiling point defined as 3.7% water by volume):
    Boiling point ranges
    DOT 3
    205 °C (401 °F)
    140 °C (284 °F)
    DOT 4
    230 °C (446 °F)
    155 °C (311 °F)
    DOT 5
    260 °C (500 °F)
    180 °C (356 °F)
    DOT 5.1
    260 °C (500 °F)
    180 °C (356 °F)

  9. #649
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    But nothing boiled yet, the brakes have not been used at all. I remember there is a DOT in the DOT5xx that is not good to use for street, I got the other one, so it might be the DOT5.1, my mech is on vacations so it will remain a surprise what he put in. lolll

    As for choobs' gases mix, that's the thing with gas, everywhere I look I see a different mix for the same metal. loll I guess it depends how you really want the bead to look or do. I'll see what the local shop can do for me (yes, one small thing I can find locally! loll).


    I forgot to mention this, but beware with the tool that adjusts spring pre-load/height. While I was using all my strength to turn the ring without turning the black sleeve, the tool slipped through my hand and it made me punch my face in the cheek. Hurt through up between the eyes for a few mins. Sorry no video of that, but I wish I had! lolll

    Koni's design for height adjustment is not flexible, in my opinion. The sleeve does not block, there is no notch to keep it in place. It blocks a little to a certain point, but if you need to put more force to turn the ring, the sleeve turns as well. The threads should be on the shock (like Bilstein) or at least a good notch for the sleeve. I guess it's to cut costs and re-use same parts on different shocks and I agree we shouldn't need to adjust height more than 1-2 times, but just beware when you do it.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  10. #650
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Well a few updates on how things go.

    Did I mention how much of a headache it is to fit a VR6 Turbo in a frame that has everything designed for it not to fit?

    I've spent the past uhm week and little bit more to design my exhaust. I mean just design, not order parts and not fit them. The problem is I have to find a bunch of measurements for the pipe, bends and try to magically mock them up in place. Everything causes me issues. The WG bolt, the V part of the frame on either side of the trans, the high drive axles, the huge trans taking all the space, the long muffler, the non-tight enough mandrel bends on the market, etc. It's just a WAG! I am WAGing the exhaust fitment. I have came up with a WAGed solution, I'll order parts, see how it does not fit and then try to cut off odd angles and solder a bunch of 1" bends to make it work.

    Based on my requirements, there is one way (again it's always one way) to fit the exhaust with this huge muffler. If I slack off the requirements, there would be 2 ways and maybe 3, but one would be less optimal.

    The exhaust will have a plumbing like headers. Ultra tight 90-deg bends, a 120-deg, 2-3 45s or 2-3 other 90s and a muffler fitted at a 30-45deg upward angle. I have no space for the bends! They take up too much space, for example a 45-deg with 4.5" radius, the total length takes up what almost 8" but I only got 5-6. A 90-deg with 4" radius, sorry but it will hit on the WG bolt (that's a drawback of the Kinetics manifold) or the rear bumper for that other 90. And 90-deg ultra tight radius (2.5") cost 80 bucks US each (w/shipping) for 304SS!

    My requirements are:

    - Muffler tip will be centered between the turn signals (that's half of my headaches and I need VRaptor to build me one mesh like FFRSpec72 otherwise my whole solution is scrap)
    - Engine sound needs to be as less loud as possible (inspection don't define "less loud", so I have to guess. And I know the VR can be very throaty on a 3" so I have to use the most efficient muffler for the available space)
    - As less as possible bends to maximize efficiency (screw that, now)
    - Use a flex bellow (the only one I can is the smallest on the market, a 4" long and it's already too long)
    - Fit aluminium sheets all around the exhaust (inspection). I need to find space for that!

    The muffler has a 16.5" long non-weldable area. It's about 10" wide and 3-4" high. It's a big box!


    I also have to re-design completely the shift linkage as it's way too far back and hits the bumper.
    I am finishing up welding brackets to solidify my mech's engine supports solution. I ran out of filler.

    I have finished designing the intake piping. I have added a very little bit of piping compared to original turbo installation. But at least there is space where the cooler will fit. Careful, if I bring the muffler over the trans, it's going to hit on the cooler!

    I have lost my Tial's bolts and GT35's oil return bolts. Ordered some, 25 bucks US with shipping. Nice.


    Finally the COSTS. If you do such a build, I mean a build no one else has done before and for which you know it's a tight fitment, don't count costs. It's totally useless. There are thousands of parts you need to order and you never know what you need to order until you do. So you waste a lot on shipping. Once you get too far into the build, you have the choice to pay 25 bucks for bolts or scrap your build. Then again 80 bucks US for an ultra-tight 90-deg bend or scrap your build. Will you scrap it?
    If you are too budget limited, either take 5 years to do the build or don't do it. Anyway it takes a 2+years just to design and fit the stuff.

    I have stopping counting, but I still maintain a precise costs sheet so in the end I will know how much. But where I stand now, if I need a part, I don't care if it's 1 buck or 1000, I need it or I lose 10s of thousands, period.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-22-2015 at 07:37 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  11. #651
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    Sorry about your pain! The 918 had the exhaust pointing up...

  12. #652
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yeah I thought of pointing it up, but one tip only will look ugly, unless done in the middle and that's as much trouble to design as between the turn signals. Also close to the spoiler we know there is positive pressure there, I don't know how that could prevent or not the exhaust gases from escaping the pipe. On the 818 I mean, the Porsche has been designed for such a look. And although Porsche stock has lost 17% today cuz of VW's scandal, they sure know how to design cars! Porsche, that is.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  13. #653
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    This is what I do at work now, instead of working (hopefully my bosses will not read this loll). Since I always have my 818 issues in mind, I decided to take a piece of paper and a pen and draw myself my exhaust solution. Spent a couple of days on that and what I came up with is the one on the left with the muffler pointing up. I did not draw the outlet cuz that's the easiest part and I don't think I will have a lot of issues there.

    The weird wavy lines is the 4" long flex bellow.

    2015-09-23 08.13.03.jpg


    With the engine sitting longitudinal, it totally changes the solutions of everything. If it had sit transverse, the exhaust would have exited right in the middle of the car at the perfect height with just one ultra-tight 90-deg on the line! Anyway, the longitudinal engine with longitudinal gearbox looks pretty damn cool, so I'll try not to complain.

    I also have drawn on Visio some diagrams of other things, I keep that for myself for now but once I'm ready I'll post them, I think I did a great job.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  14. #654
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    Wow, those are some extremely tight bends. Be ready to pay out the wazoo for mandrel tubing on a tight radius! Hell, even a 3" stainless U bend on a 4" radius is pricey.

  15. #655
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yup, that's the price to pay for when you do tight stuff not designed for.

    - 3" OD 120 Deg. 304 Stainless Steel Mandrel Bend, 16 Gauge - 3" Radius, 3" Leg x 6" Leg = USD$42+shipping
    - 3” Ultra Tight Radius Mandrel Bend 90 Degree 304 Stainless Steel 0.84D Exhaust (2.53" radius) = USD$60+shipping

    The parts are however high quality and 16ga, thank god.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    There are thousands of parts you need to order and you never know what you need to order until you do. So you waste a lot on shipping. Once you get too far into the build, you have the choice to pay 25 bucks for bolts or scrap your build. Then again 80 bucks US for an ultra-tight 90-deg bend or scrap your build.
    So true. I swore to myself I wouldn't fall into my usual pattern of trying to make everything perfect and paying $20 for the perfect grommet or wire or lug, or whatever, yet here I am doing just that. I guess it's different for everyone but once you pour enough time into the build, a $20 widget seems trivial, but those widgets and shipping costs add up. Still worth it, but someone is going to get one hell of a deal when and if I ever sell the car......

  17. #657
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Exactly, half of our build costs are shipping.
    The trick is not to sell the car. So we have to build it right!
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #658
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Finally completed welding reinforcements on the engine supports. It's not as much as I envisioned, but it's better than nothing! It was hell welding this while the engine and gearbox are in place! I couldn't weld all around but I think it's enough. Those are 3/16 flats.

    2015-09-26 12.22.24.jpg2015-09-26 12.22.45.jpg


    I did a few good welds, but I am particularly proud of this one:

    2015-09-26 12.21.21.jpg


    Now it's time to start working on the piping and also redesigning/moving around the shift brackets. I realized that when the shaft is all the way out, it over shoots the rear of the gaerbox frame's bar at the bottom by maybe 1/8, 1/4 max. If I recall there is 3/4" of play between the bumper and that bar. This is going to be so tight (pretty much like everything else loll) and I have no solution if it touches the bumper.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  19. #659
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I start to see some progress, it's encouraging.


    On redesigning the shift bracket, this is how it looked like before at full extension:

    2015-09-26 14.10.17.jpg


    Then after some good (not very good but good!) welds:

    2015-10-03 08.36.49.jpg2015-10-03 08.37.28.jpg

    It now looks like this (no extension on the shaft at all):

    2015-10-04 10.09.03.jpg

    And I finally made it through with the design of my intake! I got VERY lucky, as after cutting the 2.25" tube where my BOV flange is located (I don't have a torch), it left 2 pieces of tubes which fit ALMOST perfectly after I fitted the cooler in place! I was astonished, as some luck like this never happened yet on this build. I just needed a straight coupler and bingo. Overall, I add probably nothing in terms of tubing compared to the setup on the Corrado, as the length I cut on the 2.25" tube is about the one I added on the 3" tube. The setup you see here is 95% like it was on the Corrado. I could not find another practical way to fit the cooler. I got a double luck actually, the 3 small nipples on the right side tube are usable where they are! I thought I would have needed to cut them and weld them some other place but no it will work! That too was unexpected.

    2015-10-04 10.08.02.jpg2015-10-04 10.08.11.jpg

    I need to drill 2 holes on the 3" tube before the t-body, one for the BOV and one for the cooler outlet's temp sensor.
    I still need to design a bracket for the front left lower support on the cooler.

    I also have bought 308LSi filler to weld 304L. I just need some trimix with Helium and 2.5%CO2 and I'm ready. Those Verocious Motorsports 304L tubes are just awesome looking.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  20. #660
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    Nice work! That is one heck of an intercooler.... should keep up with the VR6T needs nicely.

  21. #661
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    That's funny... Something just fits and you're surprised... Tough build man, but lookin' good! Something to tell your grandchildren about... I can't wait to see this thing go.

    Btw, did you get your axles yet? I'll probably also be ordering full strengthened axles from the thedriveshaftshop.

  22. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    I also have bought 308LSi filler to weld 304L. I just need some trimix with Helium and 2.5%CO2 and I'm ready.
    Ooo, going trimix! I'll be curious to see your results using this. Glad to see you finally got some luck in this build too, intercooler looks great!
    Last edited by choobs; 10-08-2015 at 09:41 AM.

  23. #663
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Tnx all.

    Cooler used to work perfect on the Corrado and way too crowded engine bay. Less crowded in 818, but probably worse air flow (and enclosed bay), so I need to take note of Jim's latest wind tunnel tests and wrap up all I can with reflect-a-gold tape, which I bought. The cooler is located in what is probably the coolest spot of the engine bay (another surprise), so I think I should be ok.

    DSS is building my shafts since... Sept 15th-17th. I don't expect them until November, I really start to need them as I need to know where they will sit so that I can fit my coolant lines and exhaust in the right place with enough clearance. Yeah things are that tight in that area too.

    Can't wait to try the SS welding!!! Before I try I need ONE, just ONE part from Craig, a 4" long SS flex below. And my trimix gas.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #664
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Tadaaaaaaaaam!

    2015-10-10 10.22.40.jpg
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  25. #665
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Stop drooling and get cutting! ��
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  26. #666
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    ...Can't wait to try the SS welding!!! Before I try I need ONE, just ONE part from Craig, a 4" long SS flex below. And my trimix gas.
    Don't forget the back purge gas!

  27. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    Don't forget the back purge gas!
    Its not hard to do and worth doing IMO. Prevent that oxidation on the back of the weld!

    http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...Cheap-Way.aspx

  28. #668
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Purge gas? Oh I just learned something knew, it's true the welds inside the pipe will not be exposed to gas if I don't feed any in. Crap I didn't think about that.

    So choobs I need another tank? According to your link there is a second tank. Then I need hoses with that and some gauges too. I hope I can get all that quickly and not wait 1 month with ebay stuff.
    Tnx for the reminder, Scargo!! Still new to that...


    As for the build, some more designs. But first the custom driveshafts. Not shipped yet but ready to ship. I believe I'll get them next week.

    $USD1,300.

    Here's my breakdown:

    - DSS bigger/stronger WRX outer CVs: $500 (pair);
    - DSS chromoly as-strong-as-possible-for-that-diameter bars: $400 (pair);
    - Porsche G50 108mm inners: $200 (pair);
    - Broaching Subaru hubs to fit the bigger outers: $200 (pair).

    Now I got numbers. They have seen these bars and outers CVs on much heavier cars with 700whp+ and some work no problem, some failed. All parts can fail, there is no weak point a lot weaker than the other parts. Depends of all the variables, driving style, tires, weight, road condition, etc. They think with such light car (950-1000kg) there should be no problem to handle well enough 700+. Weight is helping here.


    I found out that my air filter piping, which was fitting perfect without modifications from my Corrado, needs to be quite modified. The location it fits to is in front of the side scoop, which is no good. I need to bend the 4" intake back and bend it again so it can come from behind the 3/4" cross bar. Oh well, I'm used to things not fitting.

    Speaking of which. lolll My oil cooler is too big to fit close to the side scoops. On the left side, the fuel filler takes the place, the wheel well also, can't fit. On the right side, I need space for my 4" filter, and with the 2.5" thick fan on the cooler, it's too close to the wheel well and won't get enough air flow. I thought of fitting it FLAT (horizontal) under the top 1.5" bars over the suspension, cuz we have a scoop on the deck lid. But again with the fan it's too thick.

    One location remains, which I never thought of: Bob's location. Which is by the rear bumper! I will fit it almost where Chad has his Amazon plastic louvers. Behind the wheel well, more on the left center of the bumper. I will have to find louvers or opening of some sort to let the air out. Will ask VRaptor, but he needs a bumper or mold of a bumper to design the part.
    I thought of something else, I will fab a box that will fit under the decklid scoop and will channel the air through a hose down to the cooler. (there better be airflow through those scoops!!) I will also put a NACA duct under the frame on the left side, right of where there is the tank filler hole (I have space since I don't have a boxer engine) and the duct will channel air through a hose back to the cooler. That should do it. Adding more build time... but it's mandatory.


    Now I'm stressing out cuz of that purge tank for welding , which I know nothing about, needs to read stuff, then probably pay to get a workable setup, which I don't know yet what parts I need.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  29. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Purge gas? Oh I just learned something knew, it's true the welds inside the pipe will not be exposed to gas if I don't feed any in. Crap I didn't think about that.

    So choobs I need another tank? According to your link there is a second tank. Then I need hoses with that and some gauges too. I hope I can get all that quickly and not wait 1 month with ebay stuff.
    Tnx for the reminder, Scargo!! Still new to that...
    Yeah unfortunately stainless it is a good idea to back purge if you want a long life from the weld. However, you should be able to pick up a set of gauges at a lowes/home depot or the Canadian equivalent store (I don't think Canadian tire carries welding supplies). But its easy to do and the 2nd bottle should last a good while. I also think you need pure argon for your back purge gas and not trimix.

  30. #670
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    No need for a second bottle frank. I've welded stainless for 10 years and never used one. Back purging is important though. The best option is a dual flow meter, so you can control each more accurately. Second best, and all I've ever used professionally, is a "Y" after the flow meter with two hoses and a knob on the purge line. You only just crack the purge line open. Cheapest option, and works in a pinch, is to fill the pipe with shielding gas using your tig torch or mig gun (disconnect wire drive rolls) just before welding. The most important thing is sealing the pipe. Remember that argon is heavier than air, and you need the air out. No matter what end you purge through, leave a small opening on the high side for the air to escape.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
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    Arrived 01/02/2014
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  31. #671
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Test your back purge setup and see what you can get away with. Use Argon, as was suggested.
    I bought this $53 Uniweld regulator for the back purging and for filling my shocks. Be careful or you can go through the gas fairly fast. those gloves on the end are a great idea.
    Other suggestions are good. I blue tape up everything I'm not welding. The paint-on flux products and fiberglass backing tape would be fine for post turbo use. I have had fears that the flux could come off and go into the turbo and that for some welds I wouldn't be able to get to the tape to remove it. If anyone knows how to deal with those issues I would love to hear it.
    I am considering making a steel header for my build because of the ease of welding and the cost. Not that SS is that bad to weld, but steel TIGs so easily with no fuss.

  32. #672
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Nice stuff here. I read more on purging.

    Choobs, Canadian Tire has welding parts (bought my Lincoln there), but no gauges.

    Adam good idea on the Y so I can control both outlets. Since I will get a big tank (they don't have my trimix in small ones) and don't plan on welding SS other than exhaust and maybe some intake (though I don't really need at the moment), there will be plenty of gas to breath from the tank loll BTW, My trimix gas will be quite lighter than air, 90% He, 7.5% Ar and 2.5% CO2. But the idea of filling the pipe with the gun is interesting. It may not be perfect but if I do it right enough (I'll practice) the welds, even if slightly rusted, should last. I don't look for perfection here.

    Scargo, the flux paste I read on that today and found this http://www.superiorflux.com/stainles...ckup_flux.html and on ebay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUPERIOR-9-BA...item43c8192f7c
    They say it's water soluble, so no flux should remain after you soak the pipe in water, or hot water.


    In the end I'm interested in 2 options, the cheap gun option, filling with the gun and the SS flux paste. Not sure which of the 2 would do the best job. The paste is easier than filling with the gun, cuz you can't really get it wrong with the paste, unless you put it outside of the joints. Maybe I should test the cheap option and see if it works, on my pipe scrap parts...
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  33. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    No need for a second bottle frank. I've welded stainless for 10 years and never used one. Back purging is important though. The best option is a dual flow meter, so you can control each more accurately. Second best, and all I've ever used professionally, is a "Y" after the flow meter with two hoses and a knob on the purge line. You only just crack the purge line open. Cheapest option, and works in a pinch, is to fill the pipe with shielding gas using your tig torch or mig gun (disconnect wire drive rolls) just before welding. The most important thing is sealing the pipe. Remember that argon is heavier than air, and you need the air out. No matter what end you purge through, leave a small opening on the high side for the air to escape.
    I actually tried that recently when fabricating my aluminum intake pipes and I couldn't get it to work. I was getting argon into the purge line (valve was just cracked enough to get the flow I needed), but I wasn't getting the flow I set my regulator to for the TIG welder. Actually what I did was a bit different. I put the Y on the tank, then ran one side of the Y to the purge line and the other side to the regulator. If you put the regulator BEFORE the Y, it seems you wouldn't have accurate flow to your welder.

  34. #674
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    I actually tried that recently when fabricating my aluminum intake pipes and I couldn't get it to work. I was getting argon into the purge line (valve was just cracked enough to get the flow I needed), but I wasn't getting the flow I set my regulator to for the TIG welder. Actually what I did was a bit different. I put the Y on the tank, then ran one side of the Y to the purge line and the other side to the regulator. If you put the regulator BEFORE the Y, it seems you wouldn't have accurate flow to your welder.
    You can run a little more cfm through the flow meter to compensate. I wouldn't recommend running a Y off the bottle unless you have two regulators or flow meters.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
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    Arrived 01/02/2014
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  35. #675
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Scargo, the flux paste I read on that today and found this http://www.superiorflux.com/stainles...ckup_flux.html and on ebay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUPERIOR-9-BA...item43c8192f7c
    They say it's water soluble, so no flux should remain after you soak the pipe in water, or hot water.
    Again, it all depends where you're using it, and whether flakes of the crystalized flux going into the turbo could hurt it or not. They talk about it flaking off or needing to be removed.
    I'm not sure where you got your information. Perhaps it was pertaining to a different flux. #9 must be thinned with alcohol.

    I wrote Superior and this is how they replied:
    Our backup flux Superior No. 9H does a very good job protecting the backside of stainless steel welded seams. Oxidation is diminished as are voids. However, the residues are hard and must be removed by abrasion. If inaccessible they will remain. Sorry about that.

    Best regards,
    Dr. Y. Baskin
    Last edited by Scargo; 10-15-2015 at 03:31 PM.

  36. #676
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Actually it's the #9, as #9H is for non-SS metals. But it's probably the same result and what I read was probably for other paste. I don't plan on welding intake piping with opened backsides, so I guess I don't care about the flux paste's residues. But, I'll practice with the cheap Smith Built's option and if I see it doesn't really rust, I'll try doing my exhaust that way. Otherwise I know I can get some paste.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
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  37. #677
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    My custom axles!!
    And a few other things...
    Including a SS welding question...


    On the 20th I received my DSS full custom axles and bored hubs.

    2015-10-20 16.12.53.jpg2015-10-20 16.13.08.jpg

    Can't fit them yet as I need to remove the old hubs and fit these. I need to fit the axles soon as I need them in place to make sure I clear them out from the exhaust.


    Next, I got my trimix tank. Damn, that thing was only available in the huge tanks, 5-feet high, over 200lbs. That thing cost me $CAD480 with taxes + I need to pay 48 cents a day for rent. Damn damn... Fits barely in my tray!

    2015-10-20 16.36.54.jpg2015-10-20 16.51.55.jpg


    Speaking of welding. I tried on mild steel using my 308LSi filler. Works pretty good. The bead is SO damn smooth! And clean. I was impressed. Also it makes a green/turquoise arc (looking through the mask of course), pretty impressive. However, it was not that easy to make a continuous bead. Then I tried on SS. It was worse. You know when you weld it should do like pop-corn and the TICs should be at equal intervals. In my case I had trouble to get the arc sparking. It was like TIC TIC TIC..... TIC TIC.... TOC.... TIC TIC TIC TOC TIC.... TIC TOC TIC TOC TIC TIC..... TOC TIC.... Very erratic spark! I tried more gas, less gas, more voltage, less (only one notch), didn't change much in the end. I don't understand. Couldn't find why on the web.

    I use 30-40 sCFH, 50% wire and I think 75% voltage (Lincoln MidPak140 on 120volts) to weld 14ga or 16ga (1.6 or 2mm) SS metal.

    Many times when I try to initiate the spark it doesn't work, lags, then 1-2sec later it sparks. Often, it sparks as an explosion and my wire gets cuts and welds as is on the metal.
    I think I can also push back the wire inside the gun hose with my finger and when I press on metal. If I recall with flux core when I was pressing the wire on the metal it was not backing in the hose!

    I admit my small wheel that guides the wire inside the welder is meant for .025 and .035 wires. I have .030 and tried both notches.

    When the spark is continuous, never long, the bead is awesome, I was impressed. But I can't find my problem, so the end result is never very good and full of beads and balls all over the place on the metal.



    I also installed my canister, much smaller than Subaru's.

    2015-10-20 17.28.02.jpg


    Found a place for my idle valve. It's going to be at 90-deg, just that the hose is not in place to support the other end.

    2015-10-22 06.38.50.jpg

    Started gold wrapping some hoses. I'm going to need to stuff! My exhaust will be very very close my coolant lines and some other stuff.

    2015-10-22 07.01.50.jpg2015-10-26 16.59.36_1.jpg
    Last edited by Frank818; 10-26-2015 at 05:26 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  38. #678
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Axles look sweet, and I need some info on that gold wrap. Is that loom or just tape?

    As for your stainless, hmmm, where to begin. We need to sort out your wire tension first. I doubt very much that you'll be able to use the .035 slot, so try the .025. Make sure both drive wheels match. To set your tension, loosen your tension off first. Hold your gun tip 2-3" off the floor and pull the trigger. Slowly apply tension. Your goal is for the wire to curl against the floor, and not slip on the rolls. Watch your wheel of wire to make sure it's spinning consistently. I'm not sure if I'm describing that well, if you need a picture let me know.

    As for settings, use the chart inside to get you started. If it only lists mild steel and in .025 and .035 you'll have to split the two and then back about 10%. Stainless has a lower thermal conductivity than mild steel, I usually use 80-90% less amperage tig welding stainless, it's been awhile since I did stainless mig. Also, IMO it'll be really tricky to weld that thin stainless with that thick wire in a continuous bead. It's best to do a little and let it cool. Also switch sides to even the heat so it doesn't warp on you.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
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  39. #679
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Gold stuff. Ebay stuff, but looks nicely made with same material as the conventional wraps (forgot the name of it) inside and gold foil outside. It is tape, not loom.
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/291527787483
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/301408853559

    SS welding. Maybe I should have gone with .025 wire on that 16ga SS. But I think it'll work anyway, it won't look that pretty, but it'll work.
    My voltage settings are 25% increments, A to D. Found out on the chart settings it varies a lot depending on the gas used (for mild steel). Tried many other settings and I think 4.5-C is good. Sometimes I was making a perfect pop-corn, sometimes less, but still quite overall better than before. 35CFH. Wire tension is not as tight as 0.035 flux wire, although I turned up the knob to its max, but it does not back up in the hose any more, not more than 1/4".

    Found out the settings are very sensitive. Too little wire and you're off. Too much and it protrudes through the metal and makes a too big/thick bead. Too little voltage and I get 2 sparks out of 10 (sort of misfiring loll), too much and it seems to dissipate heat in a wider area inside the pipe, making it probably more prone to warping.

    Tried your trick and I believe welding 3/4 to 1" at a time is as much as I'll do. This metal gets orange very quickly and the color lasts for longer than mild steel.

    But gas welding gives much much much much nicer beads than flux core. I've got 0 porosity. Tnx to the trimix of He too.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  40. #680
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    The gold stuff looks a lot like DEI Reflect-A-Gold.

    Sorry I can't offer any advice on the SS welding. I can do it with TIG but am lost when it comes to MIG (never even tried it). When TIG welding, SS is actually easier than mild steel.

    I'm jealous of those axles!!!

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