Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

Yeah I thought of that one! That movie is often in my head with its one liners and catch phrases. And my neighbour is called Raymond, so I always thought of Raymond Colitry, however you write it.

[Frank818]

For the cool people watching this build, every month I challenge my estimated to-do list left, just to check about how long I still need to work on. Basic project management activity. Since Aug I'm working on the body. So easy... long but easy. In the last 3 months I've been working on every part of the body and today I re-challenged my to-do list based on the pace I've been putting in the last 3 months. Last spring or summer I said I would make it for spring/summer 2017.

Today, I listed my to-do list, so that I won't forget anything (that I'm thinking about) and also to re-estimate my time left. Turns out I seem to have another 275-300h to spend before all is done (wrap included), minus troubleshooting (alignment, leaks, tuning issues, desperate bumpsteer kit required, mechanical issues, breaks, etc.). That is 275-300h before I start the engine again and drive on a track (+ dyno).

275-300h at 15-20h/day shoots me up to... you guessed, March 2017. So in every way I estimate my time left, I always end up in spring 2017, even 3 months later the target still holds. I think it's a good target. Anyway before April I can't start the engine (weather-wise) and drive, so I should make it. Also at X-Mas I will spend probably 50h a week for 2 weeks, which will help as well.

I think I'm seeing the light at the end of that freakin long tunnel... or should I say "hearing the sound" at the end of the tunnel.


I'm waiting for a few things to complete to post videos and pix, they'll be cool I promise.


(Adam you might be interested in this for tuning)
Recently I viewed a youtube about people bench-testing a true American V8 (oh yeah! V8 rumble!! lolll) with 2.5" vs 3" exhaust. That video helped me understand why I was about 30-40% too lean when I first started my engine in June to Aug this year. Restriction... The more restriction you have, the less fuel the engine will burn cuz the less air comes in cuz less air go out due to restriction! (at least when the restriction comes from the exhaust). Since those guys were able to run the engine fine with both exhausts without changing the tune, that tells me my 30% off was huge (I had a part 2.5-3" exhaust before and now a full 3"). I believe I now have a very low restricted exhaust, compared to my Corrado one. Power and torque are probably going to be higher than I expected. I won't complain, for once.

[Scargo]

"For the rare people watching this build". Don't be self-deprecating. There are a lot that are interested in your build. I want to see it finished in the spring! I've enjoyed the build.

[Canadian818]

You definitely underestimate the interest. I for one follow almost every build, but only comment when I have something to add or a congratulations on a milestone. It's too bad there isn't a like button, I'd often like to applaud someone's work or effort but have nothing to contribute.

As for the tuning, I'm running richer than target, so that would imply my exhaust is much more restrictive. However my engine is soo far from a stock FD that there could be half a dozen other reasons.

[BN]

Did you say wrap do you know a good place in Quebec and will you take the car apart for it .

[Frank818]

You guys are absolutely right. Thinking about it I remember being surprised a few times at how many responses I was getting when I posting an issue. I'll retracted what I wrote in my post above.

Ben, I am wrapping myself, maybe with the help of 1-2 friends. Some panels will be wrapped on the car, some other apart.
If you want wrap, check out XPO at Vvivid on ebay or web site, they are located in Montreal and they build the wrap. Prices are good too and of course shipping for once is super cheap and 1-day (for me, could be 2-day for you).

[redfogo]

Its amazing how much you think your close to being done and then after you add up all the things your like wow I have a long ways to go! I don't know about you but some days I just go out into the garage and spend a few hours scratching my head trying to solve how to do something better there goes another 5 hours of nothing...

[Frank818]

Yeah and I just added a few hours to fix my seatbelts mounts and some more for Jeff's bump steer design fixing thing.

I used to be hours staring at something trying to figure out how to make it work (the fuel filler pipe is one!). That's the design part, very very time consuming. Now on the body the design has gone way down so it's a lot easier to estimate what I got left. But this morning I spent 3h trying to get one door to open fully (the front edge of the door was hitting everywhere, including on the fender inner lip). I can't make it 100% without hitting on something so I found an idea to put a stopper. Will have pix in a month or so once I get my chinese part. lolll

The worst "staring at" moment I had was on my transmission bell crank parts, the brackets to move the shaft. I was sitting behind the transmission and looked at it for 6h straight. Without doing anything! Just thinking, measuring, fitting parts,...


Happy Election day. Remember all, if a candidate thinks it's possible to make America great "again", that candidate is totally wrong, cuz USA is already extraordinarily great, "again" is irrelevant at the present time.

[turbomacncheese]

You definitely underestimate the interest. I for one follow almost every build, but only comment when I have something to add or a congratulations on a milestone. It's too bad there isn't a like button, I'd often like to applaud someone's work or effort but have nothing to contribute.

This.

[svanlare]

I have many threads that send me updates and I don't post nearly as often as I should, but I read them all eagerly even when I'm on traveling. There are not too many people who think building your own car is a sane idea and most us are hanging out places like here. Also, I'm a sucker for a good engine swap as what seems simple conceptially (replace this engine for that one) involves what seems like a zillion deatails that all have to be sorted. Even just going to a newer engine on my team's race car ('86 Z to as '91 Z) took a surprising amount of work. BTW, my spreadsheet currently shows me finishing September 15 2017, so a good bit behind yours so I'm sure I'll be "borrowing" ideas from here on out too. I'll keep reading closely and clearing you on.

[AZPete]

Hey, Frank, why are you holding out on your door fasteners! You told svanlare you had some good fasteners but now you are keeping it a secret. Do I have to call Wikileaks?

[svanlare]

Maybe I need to broker a deal, photos of Pete's interior for door fasteners! I'm in Scottsdale next week and would bring by a beer to take some photos :-)

[Frank818]

Hey, Frank, why are you holding out on your door fasteners! You told svanlare you had some good fasteners but now you are keeping it a secret. Do I have to call Wikileaks?

Yeah, Trump prevents me from releasing my income tax returns. I mean my fasteners ideas.
No it's cuz I'm still working hard on the damn doors. I want to take great pix of the steps I did differently and I'm waiting for one last tool to arrive before I can assemble all the fasteners.
Damn doors, at least 75h per door. BUT, soooooooo much easier than everything else I had to do before the body...

[Frank818]

Surprise below!

I've got a lot of pix waiting... waiting for parts to complete and more pix to come.

But I have started and completed 3-4 things today, like my mirrors and the hood hinges. Ok the hinges are not on the hood yet cuz the hood is not installed, but they are on the frame and ready.

In the past few weeks I moved all of the remaining car parts from my home's floor to the garage, on the car. For the 1st time in 2.5 years I was stepping foot on untouched floor since april 2014. The feeling was weird walking at places I was walking around for that long. loll

Oh yeah I also cut the louvers' holes on the hood. Looks really great, was long to get it smooth but it looks cool, tnx to Craig (again).


These are the hinges (Steve, using Craig's fasteners here):

2016-11-11 15.48.21_1.jpg


I blocked off the lower nose insert opening to increase slightly the splitter's efficiency (Steve, no fasteners here, only vinylester and cloth):

2016-11-11 15.48.04_1.jpg

And my mirrors. I am so ****ing proud of the installation! I passed the wires through a hole (not on pix) so the wire will not be seen anywhere.
Some of you may guess which car I got my inspiration from. I'm sure Adam will guess. Ok they are not as high as on that car but the part onto which I installed the mirrors is the same.
I think no one on the forum did that yet.
I had to modify some 1/4-20 flat head bolts so they would fit inside the slots which were made for hex drives and bolting only the lock nut from the other side. Since I have blind side using rivnuts, I had to get creative here (again).
If you do that on your car, beware, the metal surround's frame will be in the way on the top rivnut if you don't drill the hole as high as possible. I got lucky cuz I didn't know until after the 25/64 hole was drilled.


Result, voilà!:

2016-11-11 11.23.36_1.jpg2016-11-11 11.23.54_1.jpg2016-11-11 11.30.57_1.jpg2016-11-11 11.31.08_1.jpg2016-11-11 11.31.48_1.jpg






I also test fitted my wiper. It requires 2-3mm more of clearance in some places, which I will get when I will install my hood "anti-wobling" support, it will raise the middle of the hood and a bit the sides, which should clear the wiper without the need to cut/trim the hood's edge.

[flynntuna]

Love those mirrors.
Did you get them from eBay ?

[AZPete]

Hey, Frank, great mirrors! And nicely installed with hidden wire, modified flat-heads.
It's the hundreds of small accomplishments like your mirror project that make building an FFR car so much fun.
And, it's also fun for the rest of us to see innovations like this.
And, maybe copy.

[Hindsight]

Looks great Frank - your build is really picking up speed I feel. You should have your first drive with the body on in no time, though I guess the winter is long and cold up there eh? I'm sure you get some blue sunny days though, even if it is cold.

Have you decided on a color to paint it?

[Frank818]

Love those mirrors.
Did you get them from eBay ?

Yeah, after FFR they are the biggest parts provider. And you found those exactly, not sure how you did.
I got them in Aug 2013!! For 7 bucks more expensive than your picture. But the exchange rate was at par or super close back then so it's still cheaper than now for me. Over 3 years and now in 1 day I have taken them off of their dust (fiberglass dust for most of it) and installed them within hours. I never thought I'd get to the point of installing mirrors but I made it.

They are cheap, light too, which is great for the windscreen. They seem durable enough, time will tell. Seems to be real glass and not plastic. The LEDs are working (at least 3 years ago).


@Adam, if you can't guess which car I got inspiration from, lemme know.

It's the hundreds of small accomplishments like your mirror project that make building an FFR car so much fun.

Well said man, those are the small things I really love doing. They make the car improve better and more than the bigger ones, I feel. Cuz when I look at those smaller ones, I am proud. Wel the big ones too, but they never stand out as much as the little ones. Hard to explain, but everyone expects an engine to be in a car. Everyone expects doors, hood, wheels, etc. But few expect mirrors on the windshield, different flashy colors in the cockpit, special switchback LEDs, a great paint design, kick-*** wheels, 21" brakes, super aggressive headlights, and a lot of little things.

though I guess the winter is long and cold up there eh?
Have you decided on a color to paint it?

Should be spring. Every week that passes still make spring possible.
Yeah I decided on the color 3 years ago and bought my wrap 3 years ago, but bought a new one 2 weeks ago! Same color, just a little different, the "little different" that I wanted 3 years ago but couldn't find it. Now I did and jumped on it. So I have a 50'x5' roll that will never be used. 300 bucks lost, but I wasn't totally happy of that color and I know every time I would look at the car I would say it. Now I found the exact color and I will smile every time.

Blue. A special matte blue... with some matte black accents, very much like RetroRacing on the black. He found the exact places where to cut colors and change the look of the car. I have to copy.

But I think plasti-dipping is better than wrapping. For various reasons. Only problem: the gaps. It adds thickness to the body parts and in some areas I am not ready for that, wrap it the only way. Maybe one day in 8-10 years (that new wrap is said to stay one 7-8 years indoors, where the car is all the time except when driving).

[Hindsight]

Cool - if you are going to apply the wrap yourself, search you tube for "no heat wrapping" or something like that. found a video a while back where a guy at a trade show showed how to apply the wrap with a minimum of stretching and using NO heat. The minimal stretching and no heat prevents the wrap from pulling back and also keeps the matte finish even. Basically he just explained how you look at what the wrap is doing when you lay it down and you then stretch it by hand, cold, in just the right areas to minimize the actual amount of stretch needed. It it somewhat counter-intuitive but when you see the video, it will make sense. Looking forward to seeing that thing wrapped and on the road. Really looking forward to hearing the audio on some wide open throttle runs!

[flynntuna]

"Yeah, after FFR they are the biggest parts provider. And you found those exactly, not sure how you did."

They weren't hard to find because they have been on my radar ever since someone mentioned motorcycle mirrors in another thread while ago.
I guess great minds think alike. Lol

[Frank818]

Cool - if you are going to apply the wrap yourself, search you tube for "no heat wrapping" or something like that. found a video a while back where a guy at a trade show showed how to apply the wrap with a minimum of stretching and using NO heat. The minimal stretching and no heat prevents the wrap from pulling back and also keeps the matte finish even. Basically he just explained how you look at what the wrap is doing when you lay it down and you then stretch it by hand, cold, in just the right areas to minimize the actual amount of stretch needed. It it somewhat counter-intuitive but when you see the video, it will make sense. Looking forward to seeing that thing wrapped and on the road. Really looking forward to hearing the audio on some wide open throttle runs!

Note taken. Someone else who did a lot of wrapping said the only way he made it correctly was by applying a lot of heat. Since I have a huge mega roll of other kind of matte blue that I won't be using (anyone wants to buy it?), I could practice myself with that and try out those 2 techniques.
However I just got hit by a detail this morning, since I know the wrap is not a lifetime application and that I will have to remove it at some point, I cannot glue in place my louvers (and I got a lot of them on the car), cuz it will make the next wrap very hard to apply in these areas and hey! When I'll remove the wrap I will plastidip using an electric paint hand gun, I will not use wrap again. Maybe I'm ok to epoxy the louvers... but what if I wrap again. You might say ''get those bolts on a ring with holes, like those with the hood hinges kit and epoxy them''. Yeah but there are areas where the fibreglass is at an angle and it won't work to bolt the louvers in place. Will think a bit longer.

"Yeah, after FFR they are the biggest parts provider. And you found those exactly, not sure how you did."

They weren't hard to find because they have been on my radar ever since someone mentioned motorcycle mirrors in another thread while ago.
I guess great minds think alike. Lol

Might have been me but that was at least 2-3years ago. I wanted bike's mirrors cuz I wanted small legal mirrors with turn signals on. So damn cheap anyway.

[BN]

Can you show the wraps color

[Frank818]

Yes, the old color is post #96 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post134202
I think it would look like RetroRacing:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post246338
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post242655

The new color, not yet, I want to keep it a surprise. So probably not until Spring.

[BN]

Very good research thanks

[redfogo]

Hey frank, in case your asking not sure if you are, but my experience with plastidip over the years is it's great when you put it on. Once it gets dirty though that's were is sucks the dirt is hard to clean it never seems to come 100% off. Touch-ups on plasti dip are also a little hard depending on the color. Strength wise plastidip holds up well in the elements just make sure to get the edges real good to prevent peeling.

[Hindsight]

Frank, RE louvers, I mounted them on the underside of the panels. Used #10 bonding studs epoxied to the fiberglass, then drilled holes in the louver flanges and secured with locks nuts. Fully removable.

[Frank818]

Hey frank, in case your asking not sure if you are, but my experience with plastidip over the years is it's great when you put it on. Once it gets dirty though that's were is sucks the dirt is hard to clean it never seems to come 100% off. Touch-ups on plasti dip are also a little hard depending on the color. Strength wise plastidip holds up well in the elements just make sure to get the edges real good to prevent peeling.

Yeah with the wrap touch-ups are a no go, unless you unwrap all the panel and re-wrap, just cuz of one chip. Expensive. If the only prob of plasti-dip is how to clean it, I'm sure I'd find a way or if it just takes more time, so be it. I'll see how the wrap holds up against chip. I might wrap a clear matte wrap over some portions of the panels, to give it more durability.

Frank, RE louvers, I mounted them on the underside of the panels. Used #10 bonding studs epoxied to the fiberglass, then drilled holes in the louver flanges and secured with locks nuts. Fully removable.

I am mounting them all on the inside, yes. Bonding studs! That's the word I was looking for. But I'm concerned about the... which ones again. I think the humps louvers. The inner side of the panel is at an angle but I guess I can easily bend the edges of the louvers and anyway they don't need great force. Ok I'll do that. Will order those studs. Maybe 6 per louvers, say.

[Hindsight]

I think the flanges on the louvers wont hit the curved part of the humps. Also, you can cut the bonding studs down a bit, to help them fit.

[Frank818]

Is there another word for the bonding studs?

http://www.jetpress.com/Products.asp...38MmRoundBase/

I tried searching Bonding studs, Bonding fasteners and Welding studs/fasteners and I can't find them at Fastenal, eBay, Amazon and Acklands Grainger. McMaster does not ship to Canada.

[Frank818]

Nope, I'm out of words...

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-t...-rods/=151c8fy

Bonding studs, Perforated Base Studs, Bonding fasteners, binding studs, Anchor bolt, can't find anything that would ship low quantities to a home address. This is again when I'm unhappy to not be in US... surprisingly I couldn't find anything on eBay and amazon.

[Pearldrummer7]

Nope, I'm out of words...

https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-t...-rods/=151c8fy

Bonding studs, Perforated Base Studs, Bonding fasteners, binding studs, Anchor bolt, can't find anything that would ship low quantities to a home address. This is again when I'm unhappy to not be in US... surprisingly I couldn't find anything on eBay and amazon.

Hm, surprising. Sucks that McMaster doesn't ship there; they definitely have bonding studs. Hell, I might even have some at work lol

I know a guy in Oswego who would be willing to re-send the order if you want you know how to reach me!

[Frank818]

I even found 1-2 other expressions, but all I get are studs from the UK. Studs as in bolts, of course. The cheapest I found was 55GBP for a pack of 100 + shipping. Expensive. I need 42 or so (pack of 50 would certainly work).

I'm taking your offer hands down, will double check that I need less than 50 and yeah I'll let you know by tonight.
P.S.: don't forget to keep us posted on your car improvements.

[redfogo]

Yeah with the wrap touch-ups are a no go, unless you unwrap all the panel and re-wrap, just cuz of one chip. Expensive. If the only prob of plasti-dip is how to clean it, I'm sure I'd find a way or if it just takes more time, so be it. I'll see how the wrap holds up against chip. I might wrap a clear matte wrap over some portions of .

Both will hold up well as long as you get the prep right I have done both on my rally car both held up really awesome! So both should work out nice . Even if you want to take your 818 off road in gravel and mud hahahaha!

I also am willing to ship you anything you need just let me know!

[Frank818]

Both will hold up well as long as you get the prep right

I also am willing to ship you anything you need just let me know!

Prep? Now that you mention it, I'm a bit confused as to what really needs to be done here. Some say (no I'm not the Stig) I would need 3M 94 Primer for the sharper edges. Others say for the whole car. More others say no need for a primer on any surface of the car. Almost all agree that removing grease and stuff like that with soap or alcohol propilyc stuff is a good way to go.
How would you prep the body surface for maximum hold?

Tnx for the shipping, Red, I'll keep in mind if need be.

[Frank818]

Cool - if you are going to apply the wrap yourself, search you tube for "no heat wrapping" or something like that. found a video a while back where a guy at a trade show showed how to apply the wrap with a minimum of stretching and using NO heat. The minimal stretching and no heat prevents the wrap from pulling back and also keeps the matte finish even. Basically he just explained how you look at what the wrap is doing when you lay it down and you then stretch it by hand, cold, in just the right areas to minimize the actual amount of stretch needed. It it somewhat counter-intuitive but when you see the video, it will make sense

Jeff, I couldn't find that video looking at various words for searching (seems like today is a bad day for me to search for something ), but I found other stuff that seem to explain what that guy does.
I found out 2-3 important things:

1- Apply with minimal stretching and if in need to conform or stretch, do #2
2- Apply heat with a heat gun and LET IT COOL, then apply the wrap by stretching
3- Post-heat! I learned that vinyl wraps (for the most of em) loose its memory at 90-95C (180F). Its memory is what makes it want to come back to its original form, which is bad when on the car. To completely remove that moving force out of the way, post-heating any surface that has been stretched over 10% will make it keep the countours of that surface.

These 3 tips probably come back to the same stuff your no heat guy was talking about. Tnx for pointing it out!

[Hindsight]

https://youtu.be/aU8f8pi06Hs

[Pearldrummer7]

I even found 1-2 other expressions, but all I get are studs from the UK. Studs as in bolts, of course. The cheapest I found was 55GBP for a pack of 100 + shipping. Expensive. I need 42 or so (pack of 50 would certainly work).

I'm taking your offer hands down, will double check that I need less than 50 and yeah I'll let you know by tonight.
P.S.: don't forget to keep us posted on your car improvements.

Awesome Let me know and we can talk in PM. No big updates on car yet, but they're coming really soon I think!

[Frank818]

No wonder why I didn't find the tube vid. Tnx Jeff.

Right so the bonding studs will need to be cut in half (half-moon) in most places and bent in a few places, mostly the humps louvers. Easy. Unless I find a better shape than ooctagonal at McMaster.
10-32x1/2. Just looking at the right shape and I'll shoot you a PM, Frank. I mean Frank being your name, not me signing.

[Frank818]

Immortalized something we don't see often around here, yesterday at dawn.
He's got a James Bond plate.

2016-11-13 16.23.28_1.jpg

[AZPete]

Frank, when you get your 818 on the road he will be taking a pic of you. And drooling.