Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Erik W. Treves]

if you are going to leave that ball joint that way, you need to tack weld it a couple times in my opinion. There is plenty of documentation on the other forum of the ball joints becoming loose. I freeze my ball joints for a day and heat the control arm before install and they have all bottomed out.

[Frank818]

Wow Erik, I never thought they could loosen up. Tnx for probably saving me a year salary given to all of you. Then I'll do 1-2 more turns and seat them in. Tack welding isn't a bad idea either.

[wleehendrick]

Funny that people are having issues with the ball joints. I followed the manual... put mine in a vice and used the UCA as a lever and had no trouble completely seating them. I have the original angled mounts, so maybe the new flat ones are toleranced tighter?

[metros]

I did the same and needed to use a 2 foot pipe to provide the necessary leverage to get the ballpoint on. That's with using grease on the threads initially. The paint/powder on the balljoint is what causes it to be so tight.

[RM1SepEx]

Funny that people are having issues with the ball joints. I followed the manual... put mine in a vice and used the UCA as a lever and had no trouble completely seating them. I have the original angled mounts, so maybe the new flat ones are toleranced tighter?

same here, spun in fully, no issues, I also have the angled arm set

[longislandwrx]

same here, spun in fully, no issues, I also have the angled arm set

+1 on this... must be the 24" pythons.

[Frank818]

Well I am happy, after what Dan explained to me, the solution I put in place is a 10mins install. I was expecting to lose hours, cutting, welding, drilling, etc., but no. 2 easy holes in the FW and I am up to something else.

I fixed the pedal directly on the FW, without FFR's bracket. The curvature of the pedal bracket (OEM, not FFR) allows to clear just the clutch cylinder support. The pedal is centered to my taste, high enough and almost flush with the other 2 pedals. It has pretty much the same distance between it and the brake than the brake and the clutch. I will anyway put on a reversed L-shaped aftermarket gas pedal so it will bring even closer. There is PLENTY of distance to the floor when floored. And the pedal travel is more than needed, it's about 3in travel and I know I need something like 2-2.25in. I have twice the travel like that than with FFR's bracket.

I just need to make it stronger in place, cuz if I let the springs go back, it wobbles on the rubber stopper, the pedal vibrates a bit and it sounds hollow a bit (alu panels). But I have a lot of ideas to make it stronger, I may even tack weld the top U-shape section of the pedal bracket to the top tube frame and some of the side bracket to the vertical tube frame. Who knows, but that is going to be easy.

The cable hole will be slightly offset compared to FFR's, but that doesn't change anything.

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After my short discussion with Dan, I think now, what a few people told me, is printed in my head. This is a kit car, you can do whatever you want the way you want it to be. And what's in the manual (or not!), doesn't mean it's "the" way to do it or doesn't mean there aren't mistakes.

[RM1SepEx]

I wish mine looked that good! I tried to use their bracket, it wobbled, the cable didn't fit (not enough free cable) and the pedal hit the floor

I modified my pedal to shorten it cut/weld etc and still wasn't happy

The I discussed with Wayne/Erik, mounted directly, had to recut and reweld pedal what a PITA

Wait until you hang the body and doors Frank! I'm enjoying a cold one... I think I have the doors figured out!

[AZPete]

Frank, I stumbled across the solution to your clutch reservoir hitting the frame. See SixStar build thread, post #33.

[metros]

Looks pretty good Frank. I may end up following suit.

[Frank818]

Frank, I stumbled across the solution to your clutch reservoir hitting the frame. See SixStar build thread, post #33.

And Pete does it again. That is exactly what I was searching for the other day, but never thought of looking for the word "resi" or "reservoir". Oh well, his solution is the same as what I've been told: buy a WRX reservoir. Which I did minutes before you posted this, Pete. And for once, that is a part that is cheap!

Looks pretty good Frank. I may end up following suit.

If you like the way it fits, look no further, bolt it and do something easy to make the installation stiffer. Plenty of solutions for that.
If I ever find the pedal is slightly too further away (towards the front) compared with the other 2, I can easily add something on the plastic pedal and on top of that I will install my pedal cover, so again easy solutions. I never thought it'd end up that way for the cable pedal installation. There are some good news during a build, sometimes.

[Frank818]

Finally succeeded to drill out that damn snapped off rotor bolt from the hat, so I replaced it with a BBS bolt we find around the cups.

And guess what, like all the others I have the same over hanging pads in the rear. My mech finds it's quite enough, it is a little more on the right side. I will mail Wilwood until they get it fixed.

I also found out that the bracket-to-back plate bolts are too close to the rotor. So close that with heat expansion who knows what may happen. So I use Wilwood's gold washers (2) on each bolt, between the bolt and back plate, in order to not change the caliper location. The washers are a little too big and rub on the caliper so they bend. I have to use a punch to push the washers away from the caliper as much as possible.

The grey bracket-to-caliper bolts ended up using 2 washers instead of the 3 Wilwood mentions in the manual.


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Time to send my pix to Wilwood and complain. I hope you guys will do the same.

[Frank818]

For those with Wilwood's 12/12.19 setup and in need for Flexlines without using the FFR adapters, 508 Stroker's build gave the parts to buy:

4 x -3AN to 3/8-24 male to female fittings
4 x -3AN to 1/8in pipe straight fittings
2 x 18in long -3AN 3/16" Brake Line with straight female ends
2 x 16in long -3AN 3/16" Brake Line with straight female ends

Unfortunately Capital Motorsports does not sell outside USA, so I looked around to find these parts elsewhere. I found an ebay seller who has everything, Race Basics http://stores.ebay.ca/Race-Basics?_t...p2047675.l2563

There certainly are other places but I didn't want to spend more time looking.

[Pearldrummer7]

Well I am happy, after what Dan explained to me, the solution I put in place is a 10mins install. I was expecting to lose hours, cutting, welding, drilling, etc., but no. 2 easy holes in the FW and I am up to something else.

I fixed the pedal directly on the FW, without FFR's bracket. The curvature of the pedal bracket (OEM, not FFR) allows to clear just the clutch cylinder support. The pedal is centered to my taste, high enough and almost flush with the other 2 pedals. It has pretty much the same distance between it and the brake than the brake and the clutch. I will anyway put on a reversed L-shaped aftermarket gas pedal so it will bring even closer. There is PLENTY of distance to the floor when floored. And the pedal travel is more than needed, it's about 3in travel and I know I need something like 2-2.25in. I have twice the travel like that than with FFR's bracket.

I just need to make it stronger in place, cuz if I let the springs go back, it wobbles on the rubber stopper, the pedal vibrates a bit and it sounds hollow a bit (alu panels). But I have a lot of ideas to make it stronger, I may even tack weld the top U-shape section of the pedal bracket to the top tube frame and some of the side bracket to the vertical tube frame. Who knows, but that is going to be easy.

The cable hole will be slightly offset compared to FFR's, but that doesn't change anything.

2014-07-02 14.08.08.jpg2014-07-02 14.08.20.jpg2014-07-02 14.08.35.jpg2014-07-02 14.08.45.jpg2014-07-02 14.09.35.jpg2014-07-02 14.09.51.jpg2014-07-02 14.09.59.jpg

After my short discussion with Dan, I think now, what a few people told me, is printed in my head. This is a kit car, you can do whatever you want the way you want it to be. And what's in the manual (or not!), doesn't mean it's "the" way to do it or doesn't mean there aren't mistakes.

I know I'm a few weeks late to this party, but I want to say that this is exactly what I thought I wanted to do (just from reading of everyone else's problems). Man, great pictures, Frank. This is perfect! Let us know if you come up with a cool solution for the stability issue.

[Frank818]

No worries for being late, man, I brought back some 8-10-months old info on a few other threads (I wasn't there yet before).

As for the increase stiffness of my preferred pedal (gas! ), I think I will wait until I am much further in the build, just to make sure I don't need to pass through, install something close to the pedals or re-arrange what's in there. I can't trust the manual. If I make it permanent now, who knows if I'll need to undo it later. I probably won't know until this Autumn. But metros already did something. I'm pretty sure I'll do different but he found something nice too.

[Pearldrummer7]

No worries for being late, man, I brought back some 8-10-months old info on a few other threads (I wasn't there yet before).

As for the increase stiffness of my preferred pedal (gas! ), I think I will wait until I am much further in the build, just to make sure I don't need to pass through, install something close to the pedals or re-arrange what's in there. I can't trust the manual. If I make it permanent now, who knows if I'll need to undo it later. I probably won't know until this Autumn. But metros already did something. I'm pretty sure I'll do different but he found something nice too.

I know that feeling! What a great pedal it is. Just did some measuring and checking out this stuff. My 2012 WRX's pedals are 58mm clutch-brake and 61mm brake to gas. The 818's pedals are 56mm clutch to brake and where I'm considering the gas pedal is about 59mm. Basically the same thing, just a touch closer together.

Why did you let your's hit the pedal assembly? I think it can be mounted under that and clear both, but perhaps there's enough travel with it just hitting the pedal assembly.(http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attac...3&d=1404328069 for reference)

Maybe I'm just overthinking all of this.

[Frank818]

How can you have a different distance from clutch to brake between OEM and 818? My pedals are totally fixed on the pedal box so the distance remains the same. But since I am using pedal covers (not installed), I can play a little with clearances so if it's not perfect already a few mms here and there will make it perfect for me.

The cable travel as it is now (hitting the pedal box still) is more than what I need for the VW T-body. The VW t-body needs about 60mm of travel (if I recall, I think I posted the info on my thread) and the pedal installed on the FW gives more than that, even though it's still hitting the tube. The travel will not get reduced once I install my sound deadening and carpet on the FW, cuz when it hits the tube, it's not even yet parallel with the frame, so there is plenty of space for deadening and carpet.

[Pearldrummer7]

How can you have a different distance from clutch to brake between OEM and 818? My pedals are totally fixed on the pedal box so the distance remains the same. But since I am using pedal covers (not installed), I can play a little with clearances so if it's not perfect already a few mms here and there will make it perfect for me.

The cable travel as it is now (hitting the pedal box still) is more than what I need for the VW T-body. The VW t-body needs about 60mm of travel (if I recall, I think I posted the info on my thread) and the pedal installed on the FW gives more than that, even though it's still hitting the tube. The travel will not get reduced once I install my sound deadening and carpet on the FW, cuz when it hits the tube, it's not even yet parallel with the frame, so there is plenty of space for deadening and carpet.

I guess between 2002 and 2012 they changed the pedal distance slightly. I measured like 4 times and got my roommate to do it too (with my Horrible Freight calipers) and we got the same stuff.

I wonder how much travel I need for the Subaru throttle. Good call. I think I'll install mine there because I like the go-pedal a little higher up than it was when it cleared the pedal. You should have a ton of room for sound deadening.

Awesome info. Thanks as always, Frank!

[Frank818]

Oh ok I thought you measured the donor's box pedal distances when on the donor and then after installed on your 818 but still on the same pedal box. Ok makes sense now about the 2002 vs 2012 comparison. loll

The other reason I didn't want the pedal too low is cuz again I will put some deadening on the floor, but I don't know yet how thick that deadening will be. If the pedal is 2mm off the floor, that doesn't give much play for deadening and carpet.

[Brando]

I fixed the pedal directly on the FW, without FFR's bracket.

I also mounted my pedal to the FW. After a few knee jerk stomps on the pedal I noticed the FW rivets were popping off and the FW was removing itself from the chassis. I ended up laying a 1" x 3" L-Bracket aluminum and used 3/16" rivets to mount the 1" side to the chassis and used silicon on the 3" backside up against the FW. I mounted the pedal on the 3" side of the aluminum. It's super solid and the pedal sits in the same position.
I don't have my car currently so i can't snap a pic for you so I hope that makes sense. It was a PITA to get in there with seats, dash and console installed

[Frank818]

Tnx for sharing Brandon.

You found out after the fact (everything else installed and in the way) that the FW wasn't stiff enough?
That's why I fear of making some permanent changes too early, just in case I need to do something that I won't know until later and if I do the wrong thing now I'll be stuck later. loll

I do not know yet how I will stiffen it, but yes there is no way I will leave it wobbling on the FW. However I think I'll find an easier way than riveting or drilling in hard to access areas.

[Pearldrummer7]

I also mounted my pedal to the FW. After a few knee jerk stomps on the pedal I noticed the FW rivets were popping off and the FW was removing itself from the chassis. I ended up laying a 1" x 3" L-Bracket aluminum and used 3/16" rivets to mount the 1" side to the chassis and used silicon on the 3" backside up against the FW. I mounted the pedal on the 3" side of the aluminum. It's super solid and the pedal sits in the same position.
I don't have my car currently so i can't snap a pic for you so I hope that makes sense. It was a PITA to get in there with seats, dash and console installed

Brando,
Can we get a pic of this? That sounds like a good idea to me

Thanks,
Frank

EDIT: Just saw that you don't have the car now. Whoops! Whenever you get it back!

[nuisance]

I also made a new bracket to mount the gas pedal. It is 1/8" aluminum, bolted to the backside of the tube there. I (luckily, thanks to discussion here) did it before I riveted that piece of firewall.

pedals.jpg

John

[Brando]

pedals.jpg

Frank (Pearldrummer), I won't have my car for over a month so I would say it's just like Johns above except the aluminum i used had a 90 degree bend with a 1" lip. I drilled that lip into the right side of the tube instead of the backside like John did. I had already installed my panels so I had to go this route but either will work.

[Frank818]

Installed my rear parking brakes. Not easy with 2 hands, but I managed to do it. I had to re-use my old rusted Forester 2000 springs (3 on each side) cuz the springs kit I got had the wrong springs for half of them.


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And the clutch master cylinder from an NA is really not supported, the one from the WRX fits MUCH MUCH better. Interestingly I got a black cap. Who cares...


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[Frank818]

For full torque specs of the rear suspension, visit here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l-torque-specs

[Frank818]

FFR upper trailing link freakin close to the rim. This will not pass inspection (and I would be too afraid to leave it that way), so I had to move the 2 washers on the same side, which cleared about 0.25 or 0.32". Some others had to do that as well. I am a bit concerned about the fact the ball joint has much less play twisting side to side with the 2 washers on the same side, but my mech seems to think it's enough.

2014-07-22 11.33.24.jpg


OEM trailing arm poly bushing crushed. Apparently it's ok to leave it that way and won't cause any harm. The arm is not angled like I'd like, the U bracket that goes on the spindle/bushing seems to be angled the wrong way. Not sure if it's acceptable or not, for the moment I leave it that way.

2014-07-22 11.58.16.jpg


Installed one rear wheel. I know, it's backwards, it was for eye adjustment of the camber, toe and clearance. There are a lot of adjustments possible.

2014-07-22 13.29.15.jpg

[Frank818]

Installed the pedal covers. Took a long time for the gas, had to drill in the end. Also I had to fit it lower otherwise it was way too complex to install. That should be ok as it may help heel-toe.

2014-07-23 12.09.58.jpg


Test fitted my Corrado Recaro seat (passenger at the driver's place), seems tight, but the seat will sit higher and a little forward. Clearance all around is not huge, though. I may need to crush the steering column (Rori's idea) in order to push forward about 2" the steering. But before I do that I want to fit the seat and my other s/w. Plenty of space for the legs, but the rest it's tight, I understand the 6'4" guys...

The Recaro seats are bolted from underneath towards the top, so no way I will use FFR's seat mounts which bolts from side to side. I plan on using a simple slider for the driver's and fixed for passenger. Also plan on keeping the small cross bar in front, might be helpful a lot in case of a side impact on the door!

Yes, the wiring for electric adjustment and heating will be kept. I will lose height adjustment, cuz the mechanism is embedded in its frame support which I had to remove cuz the track system slides within tracks that are part of the Corrado's chassis and installed facing horizontally one to each other. Too complex to build something with enough strength. I will use an aftermarket slider system (tracks facing upwards) that has the strength and will bolt from underneath using custom brackets.

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[Frank818]

Found a solution for the seats. I will NOT use the sliding rails. The seat barely moves 2 to 3 inches back and forth, limited by the small crossbar in front and the tank's firewall in the back. I will rather use a C channel rail into which I will drill oval holes at the bottom, allowing me to manually move the seat if I ever need to. Unbolt, slide on the X bars on the floor, re-bolt. I have never touched my seat in my Corrado for years!! No one but me and my mech drives it. So I won't in this one. The C channel rail will have 4" high at the back and 6" at the front, to give the seat about the same tilt I have now. The seat will be high causing the head rest to be very close to the top of the roll bar when it's fully extended/raised (head rest). I will lower the head rest a little.

I think I will sit high compared to others. 4" in the back of the seat is quite a lot I think. What's your seat height?

VR6 Fuel pumps: No issue to fit the OEM pump in. FFR provided all the hardware, including level sender. The OEM VR6 pump is very similar to the OEM Impreza pump, so we also believe even the pump bracket will fit! Then I will fit my inline aftermarket pump outside the tank, just like now. We believe all this should be 95% straight forward.

VR6 Engine: my mech is late, very very late. He's waiting for Porsche parts to complete 3 engines, the cars are using lifts and my lift is in use. Some parts are BOed so I wait. We need a lift to strip down the Corrado. So I am doing very little on the car, as everything else depends on the engine installation, now. I am finishing some interior alu panels, getting my seat C channels custom made but that's pretty much it. I guess the engine won't be in until September.

I have also slowed down cuz my gf and I have just split, hence affecting my concentration on everything.

I hope to be able to catch up that lost time before the first snow, usually in November (stupid Canada), when I plan on towing back the car in my personal garage for wiring, body and finishing details.

[Hindsight]

Sorry to hear of your split I hope it works out for the best. I dealt with the same thing last year and it worked out well in the end for me.

Any reason the brackets for the seat are going to be so high? If you are currently planning on 4 back and 6 front to get the right angle, when not 1 in the back and 3 in the front - if they can be made that low to fit?

[AZPete]

Like Hindsight, I like the Recaro seats but would need them much lower. Can you post a photo of the seat bottom? I hope the seat mount and/or frame can be cut down.

[Frank818]

Hind and AZ, tnx for that, a couple of weeks and it will work out for the best for me.

Good questions on the seats, when I test fitted them with me sitting in I realized if the seat is too low the SW is too high even at it's lowest setting. One thing you have to know, I am only 5'6".
Now I think I'd have to try say 2 in the back and 4 in the front. I tried 0 in the back and 4 in the back, but nothing in between. Maybe I should give it a try before I commit on 4/6.

The Recaro's bottom is totally flat once you remove the 6 Hex bolts that keep in place the tubing, height adj motor, electric controls and rails. And that removes probably 15-20lbs of weight as well, I was impressed.

I do have a pic, let's see oh I never posted it, that's why.

2014-07-23 08.57.18.jpg

[AZPete]

Thanks for the photo of Recaro bottom but it looks like it's not easily cut down lower. Thanks.

[Frank818]

Maybe I'm being slow, what is not easily cut down?

[AZPete]

The Recaro seat looks like it would not be easy to cut down shorter. I've hacked the steel frame of the Subaru seats to get them real low and they will work for me without getting bugs on my forehead but I was thinking of possibly doing the same with Recaros.

[Frank818]

Cutting down the seat itself? I have not thought about that yet. I guess to see what's inside I'd have to get all the cloth removed. And there is the heating system there (to warm up your butt) which I have no idea how it's fitted inside, so yes, it's probably not easy to cut down. But it's quite possible my 4inch high in the back is too high.

Other possibility, I could increase the spacer size for the steering column. I have slightly already, but maybe I could add another half and then lower my seat. Being too tall is not good on that car as I've seen, but being too short has its challenges too.

[AZPete]

Frank, as you shorten the steering column the wheel gets lower.

[Frank818]

Makes sense, cuz the column is angled up. But so far I don't need to shorten it, the distance is fine for me. If I shorten it, I need to bring my seat further up front which then hits the small cross bar, unless I raise the seat a lot to go over the bar. Like I said, tall guys have issues, very small ones too. lolll But I think it won't be complicated to find the good balance with what's in place.

[Frank818]

Couple of updates and some questions on the rad installation.

First of, the Corrado will be stripped starting on Aug 16th, which is very late but my mech will work 100% of the time for a while to catch up. So I guess the engine fitting will start a bit after mid-Aug.

Second, I have an earlier version of the rad (same as Mike Everson and a few others) with the inlet on top right corner instead of top middle. I am not sure which side is the top and bottom, I think it's like this, can anyone confirm?

2014-08-04 12.15.29.jpg

Then, since the lower rad mount bushings have a hole in the middle, I guess the 2 pins on the rad slide in the bushing's hole, right?
Ok, now how do I install the top mounts? I have no pins there.

2014-08-04 12.15.51.jpg

Then, in the manual when you install the FFR rad support they say to use 6 bolts of one type and 2 of another. I can't seem to understand on the drawing where are the 2 bolts/nuts of #7/#8 going. Anyone knows?

RadBolt.jpeg

I am not sure I know which bolts these are as well (7 and 8 from previous pic).

2014-08-04 10.30.26.jpg


During my install of the support, when I fitted one of the 6 bolts, the passenger side top forward bolt didn't fit. I mean the nut doesn't. I had to grind the triangle support a little.

2014-08-04 09.05.02.jpg

Are we installing 3/8-16 x 1 bolts or 0.3125-18 x 1.25 here?

2014-08-04 10.30.17.jpg

On another note, dropped the car to see how it'd look like.
Kick a** wheels, hey? I am talking about the front. loll

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This is the worst place for such a defect, it's on the roll bar, the bottom section and DRIVER's side, the place where I'll see my fix all the time. Oh well.

2014-08-04 08.27.08.jpg

[jayguy]

I am not building an 818, nor do I own a Subaru.

However, I believe you have the radiator oriented properly in the first picture, based on the drain valve (petcock) in the lower right. Pretty sure that would be towards the bottom, not the top, like it would be if you turned it around.

Also, I love the front wheels! You need to roll it round on 4 like that! :P