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Thread: Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

  1. #1281
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Jeff, something's wrong. The springs are 8" long but at Summit all their 8" long are 3.5" OD and I measured 3.25" OD. As for the ID I measured 2.33-2.4" but at Summit they have 2.25" and 2.625". Maybe they are 2.25" but I'm still 0.25 off on the OD, maybe it's not that much?


    At the back they are Koni's 275lbs.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  2. #1282
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    You definitely need stiffer springs. I got 500# springs. I ordered 8"x2.5" ID, they fit a little loose on the collar. Try to find a 2.375" ID.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  3. #1283
    Moonlight Performance
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    Frank, generally springs are spec'd out as IDxLength. The FFR springs ID is 2.5" and the length is 8". Someone once told me the springs are 10" but all mine measured out at 8" so I'm pretty sure whoever said that was mistaken.

    Here you go (all Eibach springs from Summit that are 2.5x8):
    https://www.summitracing.com/search/...rder=Ascending

  4. #1284
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yeah the 2.5s at Summit are not listed in order, I read 2.25 and then it was going to 2.625 but on top of 2.25 there is 2.5, yes. DOH!

    Adam, they do fit a little loose but that's not a problem.

    Now it's a matter of which rates should I try... If I provide here my corner weights, would someone have a guess at which rates I should try first?


    I just want to provide again the procedure to adjust the YELLOW 8225 series shocks:
    Adjustment Procedure 76, 80, 82, 86, 87, 88, 90, 8040, 8240 Series



    Rebound Adjustment Procedures

    1. Remove the shock absorber from the vehicle and hold it vertically with the lower eye or pin attached in a vise. Use clamp plates to prevent damage.
    2. Fully collapse the shock absorber, at the same time turning the dust cap or piston rod slowly to the left (counterclockwise), until it is felt that the cams of the adjustment nut engage in the recesses of the foot valve assembly.
    3. Some shock absorbers include a bump rubber concealed under the dust cover and it must be removed prior to adjusting.
    4. The damper may have already been adjusted. Therefore check whether the shock absorber is in the adjustment position or not by keeping it collapsed and gently turning it further to the left counting at the same time the half turns until a stop is felt. Stop turning then and do not use force.
    5. Keeping the shock absorber collapsed, make 1 half turn (180 degrees) to the right (clockwise). In case of prior adjustment add the number of half the turns previously found. The total range is about 5 half turns.
    6. Pull the shock absorber out vertically without turning for at least 1 cm to disengage the adjusting mechanism. The dust cap or piston rod may now be turned freely.


    Rebound Adjustment Direction:
    Clockwise: Firmer
    Counter Clockwise: Softer
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 12:00 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  5. #1285
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    What % heavier is your VR6 setup vs the EJ setup, including all frame mods etc? You could add that much % to the stock spring specs and start with that.

    Alternately, we know that Chad ran 600# rear springs, and the R's normally run 500# rear springs. So at the very least, you could start there. I know that when I put my 500# rear springs on, I had to back WAY off on the height adjustment to get it to sit at the correct height (as expected). I'd probably just start off with 500# springs.

  6. #1286
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Well let's see...

    2017-02-14 15.06.56_1.jpg2017-02-14 15.07.31_1.jpg

    Those aren't the final numbers and some light parts have not been installed (splash guards and splitter+diffuser+headlights) or filled with water (AWIC hoses, although they run on both sides), but I have added a little more weight to compensate.


    (took 1286 posts to get here lolll)
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 05:07 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  7. #1287
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I haven't checked the numbers myself yet!! lolll

    Let me analyze... 62/38!! Yes! I thought I'd get 65/35 or worse. Not bad.

    990kgs!! Under 1000!! Yes sir!!

    Wow, left and right weights are the same! Now that's awesome. Except that I have 135lbs more on the LF and 130lbs more on the RR. I wonder how it'll pan (span?) out with me in it. I knew the RR would be heavier, manifold, turbo, exhaust...

    How do I read the CROSS line again? Needs to be as close to 50%, right?
    43.8 is bad but a slight change in suspension height changes weights a lot.
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 05:09 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  8. #1288
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    What % heavier is your VR6 setup vs the EJ setup, including all frame mods etc?
    According to this:

    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post149771

    It's 100lbs heavier, with 8gals of gas less. I have no gas, forgot about that. 8 gals would bring it to 2233, so only 150lbs more than the EJ setup (guess is 50lbs on the gearbox, 105vs155, and 100lbs on the engine, 350vs450 or something similar). Although I got a SERIOUS cross problem.

    Interesting, I am 40lbs lighter up front although I have a 25pounds AWIC tank/pump. Not sure what Erik had up front, AC, radio, wheels, tires...
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 05:10 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  9. #1289
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    So Jeff, based on that I thought I could up from 275 to 350 in the rear but since I have 140lbs more in the back, let's add another 50lbs to the springs, so I could try with 400lbs?

    At the front, since I am lighter by more than 50lbs I could keep the 350. Yes there will be more weight trsf from the back than you but I start off lighter.

    F350, R400, does my reasoning makes sense?
    I could also buy a set of 500 with the 400 to save on ridiculous shipping costs and if the 400 are too soft, I put 500 in the back and 400 up front?
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 01:53 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  10. #1290
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    Yes that makes sense but the 275# rears are quite soft to begin with. I'd go straight to 500# rears. Leave the fronts as-is.

  11. #1291
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Yes that makes sense but the 275# rears are quite soft to begin with. I'd go straight to 500# rears. Leave the fronts as-is.
    They are soft? Even for street driving?

    Did you run your 500 on the street?
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 02:28 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  12. #1292
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Would putting on the old front end with the camry headlights work for passing registration? Then you could switch back to the new front end. Also, are all of these requirements solely for the initial registration or will you be expected to pass them every year? If so, have you checked with a local inspection station whether they actually inspect for all of these requirements?

    If all else fails you can just register in Montana like Aloha did.

  13. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    They are soft? Even for street driving?

    Did you run your 500 on the street?
    The 275# rears are soft, even for street driving. They work well on the 818 by being very cushy, and also allowing a lot of weight transfer to the back to help with traction under acceleration. I was shocked at how nice the ride was on the 275# rears. I now have 500# rears. It is definitely stiff, but not uncomfortably so (IMHO - others may find it too stiff). But you have to remember, you can't compare your setup to mine because a 500# rear spring on my 818 is going to feel different from a 500# spring on your 818 because you have extra weight. The extra weight will work with the stiffer springs in such a way that it will feel smoother on your car than on mine. That's my opinion anyway.

  14. #1294
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    STI, all this is for a ONE time inspection. I sold my entire front end to Frank (Pearldrummer) last Oct and both my camry headlights (FFR's and spyder double halos) a year ago after receiving the new nose. Otherwise YES that would have solved ALL of the front end issues (which are the most complex at the moment). I don't know if I can register in a different Country... will have to check.

    In the meantime Porsche called back and they cannot trace back the VIN based on any part serial number. Nice. All my money and 2500h of work now lay in the hands of the cop who will check my car for stolen parts. A by-the-book one and I'm dead. Not cuz I stole the gearbox, I didn't, but cuz I cannot prove I didn't. Then by default the part is considered stolen, so if I sell it back I by conscience sell a stolen part. Doesn't make sense.


    Jeff, I do need the *** to drop under accel, otherwise it will spin freely all the time. If for you 500s are stiff on your pool table's roads, then I'd rather try 450s first. We need smoother than normal springs on our roads here. There are stiff cars that can be driven smoothly in US but feel harsh around here. I also have to take that in the equation. I will order 450s.

    I have to update my corner weights, my jack was still SLIGHTLY jacking the front. DOH! I found out that about 1/4 of a turn on the OEM Subaru jack equals to 20lbs up front. That is huge. But in the end the difference is negligible for springs. I think I'm at 2182lbs.
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-14-2017 at 05:01 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  15. #1295
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Frank,
    I have run 275, 500, & 600 in the rear.

    When I ran the 275 I got a lot of body roll.
    When I ran 600 it was stiffer. No preload was needed. Problem was that the spring comes out of the top perch when the inside wheel on a high g turn gets unloaded. I added tender springs to prevent this.
    I am now running 4.5 RH with occupants and 500 w/tender springs. with 1' shock extensions.
    Below is a picture of my rear shocks. I am not running the dark blue bump stops shown in the drawing.
    Bob

    2d shock cad.jpg P1050539s.jpg P1050540s.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 02-14-2017 at 08:19 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  16. #1296
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Frank,
    I have run 275, 500, & 600 in the rear.

    When I ran the 275 I got a lot of body roll.
    When I ran 600 it was stiffer. No preload was needed. Problem was that the spring comes out of the top perch when the inside wheel on a high g turn gets unloaded. I added tender springs to prevent this.
    I am now running 4.5 RH with occupants and 500 w/tender springs. with 1' shock extensions.
    Below is a picture of my rear shocks. I am not running the dark blue bump stops shown in the drawing.
    Bob

    2d shock cad.jpg P1050539s.jpg P1050540s.jpg
    Why the extensions Bob? The tender springs are a good idea, I noticed when adjusting ride height that the wheel doesn't need much weight off it for the spring to be loose.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  17. #1297
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    Why the extensions Bob? The tender springs are a good idea, I noticed when adjusting ride height that the wheel doesn't need much weight off it for the spring to be loose.
    At 4.5 RH in a hard turn, inside shocks would be full extension. I add the extension so they are at mid travel at RH.

    It was a self inflected problem. My wider track width in the front cause the need for longer shocks.
    In the rear I am only running 25" diameter tires, so a little longer was necessary.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 02-15-2017 at 12:50 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  18. #1298
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    At 4.5 RH in a hard turn, inside shocks would be full extension. I add the extension so they are at mid travel at RH.

    It was a self inflected problem. My wider track width in the front cause the need for longer shocks.
    In the rear I am only running 25" diameter tires, so a little longer was necessary.
    Bob
    Interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on this. I'm running quite a bit wider track width up front and 25" tall tires, rears are 26".
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  19. #1299
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    Interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on this. I'm running quite a bit wider track width up front and 25" tall tires, rears are 26".
    How did you widen your track width? I move my LCA to the wagon holes. Which was 20mm per side on early frames. FFR changed it to only 10 mm per side on 2nd gen frames.
    Bob
    Sorry for the hijack frank.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  20. #1300
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    That is interesting. I can achieve 4.5 or 4.75" RH up front without getting the spring loose. Any 1/8s lower and the spring gets off when I jack the front. I might get off without tender springs there but I'll keep the idea hell yeah! Cuz I got no pre-load up front right now and I'm not sure that's good.

    As for the back, with 150lbs more than Subaru I am hoping the 450s will not get off at full jack extension. That's another reason why I went with 450s now and not 500. Now if I do need tender springs that's ok, I'll get some. Where did you buy yours?


    I also emailed Montana's DMV to see if they can register cars from outside USA (I'd be VERY surprised, but it only cost me 2mins of my life for asking).
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #1301
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I was thinking a different part of Canada?
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  22. #1302
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Frank, are there any builders in your area with the old front end that would let you borrow it for inspection? Regarding the gearbox, does the car need to drive when the inspector comes? You could just buy a blown gearbox (with a serial number of coarse) for cheap and install it to get through the inspection, then just sell it. You could also do this with a new gear box and sell it afterwards since this is only a one time inspection.

  23. #1303
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    A lot of posts here lately, I appreciate your time investment guys, it helps me a lot trying something out to solve this registration issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I was thinking a different part of Canada?
    Sorry about what? Montana? Different part of Canada has the problem of living more than 6 months per year every year in that other part. Aloha has not step foot in Montana and seems able to keep its plate anyway, so I'm trying it out. Of course if it works then would QC allow it and what happens with the insurances, but one step at a time.


    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    Frank, are there any builders in your area with the old front end that would let you borrow it for inspection? Regarding the gearbox, does the car need to drive when the inspector comes? You could just buy a blown gearbox (with a serial number of coarse) for cheap and install it to get through the inspection, then just sell it. You could also do this with a new gear box and sell it afterwards since this is only a one time inspection.
    I know one builder with the old front end, I'm trying to reach him out for the past year and recently again (1-2 weeks ago) but no answer. It's also risky, cuz the inspection takes pix of the car and creates a case with that. Once approved, they send me the case with pix and I need to keep that with me all the time, if a policeman pulls me over I have to show him the case. If the front end is totally different, it's possible he will put the car on the towing right away. I do not know the rules enough here.

    No the car doesn't need to drive when the police comes to check the parts. I am trying to find a G50 with a VIN. Already hard to find a G50, one with a VIN will be harder and a blown one with VIN even harder, but yes all that is on the way. I will not even swap gearboxes, unless the police asks me to prove the link between the VIN and gearbox. Then I just get the Certificate of Authenticity from Porsche for that say blown G50 and I'll try not to swap again. If the policeman really checks on the serial number on the gearbox, now yeah I have to swap. But I doubt it will go that far, unless the guy is really suspicious. Most builders don't get asked for invoices. If I show my huge pile of invoices, showing that I did my job of keeping trace of my parts, he may just want a proof where the engine comes from without looking at the VIN, like most builders. So I could get away for the gearbox too, but I need plan B, C and D just in case, cuz I CANNOT FAIL. Which is why I appreciate a lot all the ideas thrown here!

    STI definately my last plan is to find whatever G50 SHORT casing (long doesn't fit, unless plan F I use my short casing with internals and only swap on the middle casing which carries the serial number) with a VIN, blown or not. This plan will work. Much more money, maybe a lot more efforts if I need to swap gearboxes, a lot of time elapsed, but it will work. The worst part is not money or efforts, it's elapsed time finding that one of a kind gearbox. I could wait a year, who knows...
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-15-2017 at 09:00 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #1304
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    That whole 6 month rule isn't true Frank, that just applies to where you do your taxes. Let's say you have a sister in Ontario that you visit quite often, or you have a sencond home there because 20% of your work is there, or you have a cabin by the lake in BC. If you left a vehicle there for when your visiting, you wouldn't have to register it in Quebec. It's all about where the car spends most of its time, and how are they going to prove otherwise? Say you brought it back to Quebec to do some work on it if you get pulled over. Just a thought.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  25. #1305
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Good if it's not true, but it's quite similar to "spends most of its time", which means over half of the time (6 months). lolll I know what you mean, don't worry.
    All in all I'd need an address outside QC that I could rely on for the rest of my car's life. I have no relatives outside QC to base a valid story on.


    Just got some answers from the DMV, he will answer most tomorrow, but one thing he told me out of nowhere as an example, is that I need door lockers. I'm screwed again. This was not written in the documentation. Not sure I kept the donor's locking system and even if I did, door lockers are totally useless on such a car, I'm curious to see his valid reason for that. In the end I'll probably have to find something that locks the doors. I have only received one answer from the DMV so far and I already have to add a few months to my build (G50 and SAE things). I don't think it's going to get plated in 2017 if it continues like this. I need to be realistic.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  26. #1306
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    Did you think about elec. pop up door

  27. #1307
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Oui j'y ai oups, sorry, yeah I did, today. I did not search for any of this yet but those are on the list if I can't re-use the OEM lock mechanism. I don't think anyone here uses it.
    You have a brand or model in mind or just the idea of the electric locking doors?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  28. #1308

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    3rd tail light

    I have a new 3rd tail light off my 2014 Dodge Charger, was on the car for about a week. I upgraded to a factory backup camera, which has the lens in the light, so ended up with this "spare".

    Your objection may be it has a push button switch built in - used to unlock the electric trunk. But if you could come up with a reason to use it, switch and all you are welcome to it.

    It is clearly printed SAE.

    The visible part is about 23 x 3.5 cm.

    You could probably fab trim ring to cover the switch and same amount on the other side, etc.

    Here is a picture, then just look up the part for more info.chargerLight.JPG

  29. #1309
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I'll keep your charger light on my list. Once I get clear info of what I need to do I'll see which solution will suits best.

    In the meantime I am seriously working my way around the Montana loop-hole registration. Since I am in Canada, I have to validate a few more things, don't want to get lawsuits or being sued cuz I'm a foreigner and different rules would apply to me.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  30. #1310
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    I did not search for any of this yet but those are on the list if I can't re-use the OEM lock mechanism. I don't think anyone here uses it.
    Frank, I am using the OEM power locks. I thought I had posted something but after a search I guess I forgot. Now I've started a thread in the Body section called Power Door Locks.
    Cheap and easy if you have the donor actuators.
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...wer-door-locks
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  31. #1311
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Got more info on the Montana legal loop-hole. Adam it might interest you about a TC rule (although you don't care cuz you can plate yours easy in AB).

    The LLC thing seems to be a very great plan for people in the US and it's really cheap. FFR's "VIN" is used, no inspection whatsoever (can plate it before completion like Indiana) and you get your plate through Fedex. Yearly renewal is even easier.

    For Canadians however there are other things to take into account. I do not know the legal risks of that thing yet, I do not know about insurances but let's say all this is perfect as it is in US. Then what's the future?

    Well the car would be plated in Montana and in Canada you cannot import a kit-car at all. IF the car is less than 15yo. If the kit-car is 15yo+, you can!
    So my 818 would be plated in Montana for 15years (2029) or forever if I can't fix the DMV rules. Once I fix the DMV things after 15years, I can import the car and it needs to go through the same inspection it would right now. Plus of course there are other rules to comply to to get the car imported in the first place. Forms, paperwork and stuff like that.

    So that's a huge decision here. If I jump into the Montana twist, I am forced to stay in for 15 years. That'd give me 15 years to fix the DMV but rules change with time and I may be forced to comply to more rules or stricker rules in 15 years. Or worse, within 15years they could change the import rule and say that all kit-cars no matter its age cannot be imported. What a rip off.

    For a Canadian, it's really a huge decision to think about.


    As you can see guys, here in QC everything is built to prevent kit-cars from rolling onto the roads, even tough our kits are 100s of time safer than a Tercel with rust holes through the chassis, broken wipers, opaque headlight lenses, worn out tires and a fallen muffler. Those are allowed to roll and police doesn't anything about them.
    I built my kit to be safe, I do not want anything to happen to it. A single man in his garage needs to comply to many of the same rules as manufacturers investing 100s of millions a year into it. That is way unfair. But I understand they want to maximize safety. The expense for us is high, that's all.
    Last edited by Frank818; 08-11-2017 at 09:47 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  32. #1312
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Ok got the introductory letter from the legal firm in Montana, they specialize in registering vehicles. It's a very promising approach, I think many US citizens could benefit from it.

    I also did a search through the QC rules and here's what I found:


    Vehicles registered outside QC by non-residents (would be in Montana, owned by an LLC corporation in Montana, therefore non-QC resident, yes I fall into that)
    For a passenger vehicle (yes that's the 818), the non-resident (LLC) has a.... SIX months exemption!

    If the car is in QC for longer than 6 months, that non-resident is required to register the car in QC!! And because a kit-car cannot be imported to Canada if it's less than 15yo, I'd be stuck with the car in my garage for 14.5years! (or forever if they change rules)

    I have NO choice but to go through the extensive QC DMV inspection. If I need to cut and heavily modify the front end in order to make place for some SAE lights, I have no choice but to do so, even if it costs me 30k to fit those 4 lights (2 parking/drl and 2 TS). It's hard to find anything positive here and keep up to the pace.
    Last edited by Frank818; 08-11-2017 at 10:53 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  33. #1313
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Notes for self that I'll trsf to the Registration sub-forum once all is clear:

    Only for lights
    - 15 different lights required
    - 9 different SAE rules
    - 3 different minimum heights required to follow: 15" for reflectors and lights, 22" for SAE HR Hella projectors and 34" for 3rd brake light
    - 818 front end not designed for SAE lights (plus nose insert is under 15" can't fit lights there)
    - 818 rear end can be worked out and re-configured
    - All 4 side markes can fit if proper ones are bought
    - 3rd brake light only gives 2 options due to the 34" height
    - FFR respects out of the box 5 of the 15 lights
    - 1 is extremely complicated to find (front SAE I turn signals. After almost 10h of search I found none)
    - 1 is very hard to find (front SAE P DRLs. Found 2 or 3 potential ones, although how much reconfiguration of the front end is required to fit them is yet unknown)


    FFR is advised of the issue as of Feb 17 2017. Got a reply, discussion on the way.
    Last edited by Frank818; 02-17-2017 at 11:50 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  34. #1314
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    How about retrofitting some pop ups?
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  35. #1315
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Come again?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  36. #1316
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Pop up headlights, like Miata, rx7, 240sx, etc. Isn't headlight height an issue for you?
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  37. #1317
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    I have NO choice but to go through the extensive QC DMV inspection. If I need to cut and heavily modify the front end in order to make place for some SAE lights, I have no choice but to do so, even if it costs me 30k to fit those 4 lights (2 parking/drl and 2 TS). It's hard to find anything positive here and keep up to the pace.
    Frank, before you start heavily modifying things, I'd suggest contacting a few inspection stations and seeing if they actually require compliance with all of these same regulations. If all of these requirements are for a one time (initial) inspection, you could make most of these modifications temporary.

  38. #1318
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Pop ups would be quite a modification to do and would trash entirely the awesome FFR headlights, but if I come to that then yes, as long as they have TS in them, otherwise I'm in the same issue as of now. I'd have DRLs but I think for those there is a less heavy way of doing it. Besides lights from the 90s won't work cuz back then the low beams were used as DRLs, but now the rule uses less powerful lights as DRLs and the low beams aren't on. I'll keep the pop-ups as an option.

    I have seen the checklist the inspection stations use and in annex there are the 9 SAE rules associated with the 15 types of lights. They have to check them all and report the result to the DMV. I have sent pix of the car to the DMV guy, he asked for some, so he now knows my headlights. If I pass inspection with my headlights, he'll see the pix of the FFR headlights and since I am the only one with an 818, if he sees the inspection pix are the same as those I sent him but that the inspector said they are SAE compliant, I'm screwed.
    The inspection takes pix of about 20 items on the car, some I don't even know where they are (like the engine's serial number).
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  39. #1319
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Inspection stations in QC actually take pictures of the car when they do the inspections? I've never heard of anything like that. I can understand the initial inspection taking some photos but a typical yearly inspection at a neighborhood gas station would just have a check list and if you pass, you get a sticker, right? I guess the temporary lights could be used for that as well. But I think you mentioned something about keeping a binder of photos in the car at all times if you got pulled over? Is that right? That just seems overly strict.

  40. #1320
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    You don't want to know the checklist, my friend. Just for pix, seat mounts, interior, exterior, engine serial (I don't find mine), gearbox serial, all lights, fuel tank (good luck!!), wheels, tires, seat belts, braking system, axles, steering rack/column, etc...

    We do not have yearly inspection. We have no emission tests, no air bag rules, and some bumper rules that I'm not yet aware of. Everything else is basically the same rules as the multi-bilionnaire manufacturers.

    Yes that binder of photos is the case document the DMV will send me back and it will state that the car that is shown in the pix is what they approved, with serial numbers of parts for tracing. If my car is pulled over and say my headlights aren't matching the pix, the cop can impound the car right away.

    It is hell I tell ya. I don't think there is stricker in north america and if there is elsewhere in the world, I would like to know.
    Last edited by Frank818; 08-11-2017 at 09:48 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

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