Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[wleehendrick]

Not recommended but I have a lot more weight in the back, so relatively my front is too light and needs more downforce than the rear compared to the proportions FFR designed it for

Frank, be careful with that line of thinking; it's a dynamic issue. If you adjust the suspension's mechanical grip to be relatively neutral you will still get loose at higher speeds as the race splitter creates more front downforce with nothing to balance it in the rear. I'm no expert in this field, but in general, the best handling cars are those that are neutral to a little loose mechanically (slight over-steer at slow speeds where aero isn't a factor) and generate more down force in the rear than front as the speed increases.

What you don't want is the opposite, a car that pushes at low speed and gets looser the faster you go, which you may be creating. As an example, when the 1st Audi TT came out it had no spoiler, a dramatic retro bodystyle, and like an Audi, it's prone to mechanical understeer. After a few fatal high speed spins on the Autobahn, caused by the car's handling getting very loose at high speed, due to aero rear end lift, Audi recalled it and added a spoiler (as well as suspension tuning and ESP). The engineers predicted the aero issue, but were overruled by the designers who initially refused to add a spoiler because it ruined the retro look.

[Frank818]

Damn you're absolutely right!

Good news is I've got the World's easiest fix lying in front of me: cutting my race splitter to transform it into a street version, in 15mins, at no cost.
I'll test it carefully on the track first.

[Frank818]

Steve, are you ready? I got pix of my body install from the rear bumper up to the front of the side sails. The front end of the car is currently protected against gel coat and fiberglass dust so can't take pix yet.

On the following posts I will also expose some cooling solutions and Quebec regulations solutions.




This is for my NACA ducts. Mainly for looks but some air will enter and also cuz my filter is right in there, need a big opening.

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Craig's humps louvers. Will have a 7" fan running under the right one, perfectly just above the turbo, mainly part of my after shutdown cooling system, so that it will push hot hot hot air out when I shutdown the engine, for 5mins.

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One of my 2 NACA ducts on the under engine belly pan. The other one is not installed yet and location not cut. Obviously, the belly pan fits the other way around, I have it upside down for the photo.

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My first rear splash guard. Not completed cuz I need to cut to clear the brake line and maybe a little for the upper link. As of now both rear ones are done.

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[Frank818]

My rear bumper openings for VRaptor's 2 grills.

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Used 3M 8115 epoxy for the inserts on the headlight buckets. Those are the ones I had to get out. This is when I 1st epoxied them.

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Now the Steve part.

Read deck lid supports. Don't mind the bolts, I may use different styles, but I will use 1/4-20.

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Rear of side sails on shock tower brace. Used 2 holes per side.

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Front of engine cover supports. I use Quick Latches on all my covers. Surprisingly, this alu is very stiff as it is like that. The angle is intentional, cuz the latches fit at an angle on the cover.

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The holes for the side of the side sails. I wonder if one hole less would have been better, I feel there's too many. Those are 10-32.

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2x 10-32 holes at the top front of the side sails.

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3x 10-32 holes for the bottom rear of the front fenders. There is some force in that area, especially on that side, so I wanted 3 holes, not 2 like FFR does.

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My scoops. With a sharp triangle edge at the front. I will use Kurk's scoops.

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WTF is that? Yeah, another NACA duct. There is air in that area although it may not be that much efficient. It's mostly for looks cuz that bottom part of the side sail will be black and I will have the inner side of the duct blue.

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[Frank818]

Top of this pic is the back of the car, this is the tube at the bottom on the right side. 1/4-20 will be used to keep the side sail in place with Allstar's countersunk black bolts/washers kit that Tony also uses and maybe Chad on his old R. I will use those in many places under the car, diffuser, side sails, belly pan...

https://www.amazon.com/Allstar-Perfo...ar+countersunk

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Right side of the pic is the front of the car, the top tube on the pic is the same tube on the pic above. Again same fasteners.

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4 holes to attach the side sails to the bumper. Take a guess.... Yup, 1/4-20s!

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Under the bumper. Top of the pic is the rear of the car. 1/4-20s again, the diffuser uses the same 4 holes. The 2 holes without a bolt on each sides are the FFR holes for transit. I could not reuse them.

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End of Steve part for now.

[Frank818]

Time to respect regulations!

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The fit is 98% perfect!!!!!! Curvature almost perfect, a couple of hours on gel coat and I could probably fix it, although I am unsure I will do it. Now the hard part will be to secure these markers in place! It was also quite long to fit like this, a lot of careful and precise sanding on the edges and along the lines until the marker fit in and stopped at a very tiny edge all around the lense. 4h.

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The result when lit up is pretty good too. I believe this is one of the mods I did I am the most proud of. The look of those markers is just perfect with the look of the car. Can anyone guess what car they are from?

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[Frank818]

What have you guys done with your old nose style Craig fender louvers? The top of the new nose fenders is different than the old one so the louvers don't fit at the same place and look a bit different. Is it ok like that or should I fit them super close to the headlights? Or should Craig fab some louvers for the new nose?

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[RM1SepEx]

You have it backwards, lip it around so the wider part is in the front...

[Frank818]

You have it backwards, lip it around so the wider part is in the front...

Ha that would make better sense! Tnx a lot!

[Canadian818]

Wow Frank, that all looks great! I might have to copy you on the side sail naca ducts, they look great. And those front marker lights are slick! Good work! As for the louver, could you turn it around 180 degrees? Or more like 160 degrees?

[Frank818]

Tnx man!
Adam, you never work now? lolll It's cool you're on the forum everyday to update your thread or others, much better than a few months before.

The rear side markers are a ****ing challenge man... More on that in a couple of weeks.

Uh flipping 160-deg, you mean horizontally? I was thinking of flipping vertically 180-deg, the widest section up front with the straight edge along the top edge of the fender. But you mean the widest section up front with the angled edge alongside the top edge of the fender?
I'll try both tomorrow and will take pix. I guess in the end it's however anyone feels it looks good, those are kit cars anyway. lolll

[Frank818]

Hey Mr Rotary, do you need side markers, front and/or rear, in AB?

[Canadian818]

Mr Rotary eh? I believe I at least need rear side markers, I'm not sure if there's anything built into the headlights or not.

[mikeb75]

Frank, very nice work on the body!

[Frank818]

The work wasn't as nice for the rear side markers. There are many limitations with FFR's bumper, it's super short and has a wide curvature with almost no straight section. That's bad for side markers unless you know exactly which ones to get. I think I'm the first again on that.


This is the difference between FFR's front markers and mine. Which are from which car again?
I don't like the too bright yellow color of FFR's. Also the look is neutral on the car. But, they are ****ING easy to install, I could do it in less than 30mins per marker, compared to 4-6h for my markers. + I have to spend another 5-6h designing brackets allowing to remove the markers from the OUTSIDE. That's a pain to design. Hey I just got an idea!! lolll

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Ok so which one's the best for the louvers?

1
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2
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3
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4
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I think #3.


Rear side markers. FFR isn't providing any. Extremely challenging. I thought of using 97 Honda CRV's and fit them in the triangle at the top of the bumper but that would be quite high compared to my front and the style is completely different. I couldn't know the size either so maybe they wouldn't fit well, risky.
Well with these it's that the damn bumper is curved everywhere. I found the flattest spot and used it. Couldn't keep the marker level to the ground, so I decided to follow the line of the bumper to side sail seam, at least it's following something but it doesn't look very good.
I admit on picture it's worse. And on white it's even worse. Once the bottom of the bumper will be black, the rest blue, the marker will look a bit better. Oh well, I spent hours and hours and hours looking for DOT/SAE approved markers that would look good on the car and still fit, gotta live with compromises. At least it fits 95% flush!

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[Hindsight]

For the louvers, I like all the way forward or all the way rear, personally.

[AZPete]

I vote for #3 position of the louvers.

[Frank818]

Do we know if there is a lower pressure just behind the headlights compared to close to the windshield? The louvers would probably work best where the pressure is the lowest above the fender.

I'll try to review FFR's wind tunnel video, hopefully I can find it.

Damn that was easy http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ht=wind+tunnel
But it doesn't show much on the fenders.

[Frank818]

I've asked Chad to see if he'd locate them at the same place if he had to do it again.

dCzrKGGl.jpgC2RW7ZYl.jpgKhu5b8dl.jpg

[Frank818]

Just found a way to reduce weight on the 818.

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/vide...duction-174mph

[svanlare]

Been off racing for the weekend, and you posted quite a bit to catch up on this morning. Thanks for the great shots, that is extremely helpful!

I like the ducts that you have added, putting air exactly where you want it. The front markers lights look very good, the rear look like a complete pain to fit something in there.

As for front louvers, I like the first shot.

[Frank818]

Do you need more shots of those areas?
Or the next ones you're waiting for are front end shots?

Tell me about it on the rear markers. I really hope I'm right that with the 2-color wrap it'll look better. But regulation is respected, so that's done. For this side of the car...

[svanlare]

I still have to get my engine bay finished before I move onto the body, but the photo's all look VERY helpful. Thank you. I'm using the original nose on the car, so I'll have some different challenges there.

It looks like very wide pan head screws that you are using on the bottom. Something like this? mcmaster/Extra-Large Diameter Head Machine Screws with Internal Hex

What did you do under the car on the side sills? I just have one held on with clamps and it seems the edge extends in past the rail and the rivnuts would end up in the floor pan vs. the side rails unless you put the holes well inbound of the edge.

[Frank818]

It looks like very wide pan head screws that you are using on the bottom. Something like this? mcmaster/Extra-Large Diameter Head Machine Screws with Internal Hex

Well I will use large washers (either the Allstar or large fender washers) for everything on the body, apart maybe from a few exceptions where I don't want the washers to be seen, like the shock tower brace. The screws you see on the pix are all FFR's at the moment cuz nothing is secured yet and I don't bolt very tight until I get the car out.

What did you do under the car on the side sills? I just have one held on with clamps and it seems the edge extends in past the rail and the rivnuts would end up in the floor pan vs. the side rails unless you put the holes well inbound of the edge.

1/4-20s with Allstar or fender washers on the rail so yes not on the edge of the sail but more inbound to meet the rail. It's actually a tricky part, cuz I also have my underfloor alu panel bolted to that same rail and because I use many 10-32s, I didn't want to use them all for the sail. I'm not sure yet if I will squeeze the sail on those bolts' heads and use some rubber protection or drill holes to let the heads through. This last one means it's just like if I were using them to bolt the sail into place, I have to think about it.


About the Cooper side markers, the Fiat 500's are nicer, the problem with these is they fit on a flat fender lip. The 818 doesn't have any, it's too curvy. The Fiat 500's were my 1st choice hands down but when I tried to picture how bad they would fit on a curvy lip, I dump them. They would also have been at an up angle which I'm not sure regulation would let me do it. I'm not even 100% confident on my rear marker cuz it's angled rearwards.



So no one guesses my side markers, eh... couple of hints: it's from a legendary car near everyone in the US, I believe most people respect the car and it's engine maybe even more and Hennessey does its magic to it.

[Hindsight]

Disco-vette

If I ever raced a vette, I'd totally wear this:
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[Frank818]

Nice helmet and nice guess too, but although the vette matches perfectly all the hints I gave, it ain't it.
Ok the car was gone for a few decades and came back recently.

[flynntuna]

You'll need a racing suit to complete the ensemble...

[Frank818]

Some updates on the Eagle Eyes to replace the FFR lights. Anyone using them should read this.


https://www.amazon.com/Everbright-8-...ight+eagle+eye

Since they don't have a switchback driver, if you want the switchback feature you have to do something. Finding a control box alone that switches the positive side led me nowhere.
Using a relay is freakin crap! Cuz when the turn signal is on, between the flashes the white chips would turn on, obviously. Therefore is flashes yellow, white, yellow, white, yellow... crap! There is no time delay control in a simple relay. Doh!

So what I'm thinking now is buying as crap parts these things:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/45cm-1x-Car-...FXqU4i&vxp=mtr

They have an integrated switchback driver, I have 2 pieces of 85cm to use elsewhere and they work perfect. Since it's cheap I can cut the wires off of the driver and connect it to the Eagle Eyes.

The only thing is that those wires are the smallest possible in a car (even my electrical alligator clips can hardly pinch them) and since the Eagle Eyes are 9w each, I highly doubt one switchback driver is sufficient for 4 Eagle Eyes (36w). So I have to buy 8 of those tubes... 28 bucks.

Or I could unsold the wires on the driver circuit and sold back on bigger ones to use 1 driver per side for 4 lights. I already checked, it's feasible. What I don't know is the total capacity of a driver... doh again! So I will buy 8 tubes. Besides the advantages are that I can't make a mistake while soldering back wires on and most of it they come with a plug, so I don't need to make my own plug.


Another proof this is a kit car. But it's fun to find solutions that work! So proud afterwards, eh...

[Mechie3]

What's the issue exactly? You're using eagle eyes that are white and yellow? I'm using eagle eyes that are white OR yellow and they work fine (ie, just replaced what FFR has, 3 white and 1 yellow per headlight).

[Frank818]

Well, both. loll

I have white OR yellow but if I connect both wires (1x 12v+ for white and 1x 12v+ for yellow, they use common ground) to 12v+, they get white AND yellow when the turn signal flashes, cuz there is no switchback driver included.

[Mechie3]

Are you using an iwire harness? I guess I don't know what a switchback driver is.

[Canadian818]

Are you using an iwire harness? I guess I don't know what a switchback driver is.

So I'm not the only one confused, lol.

[Frank818]

Nope, I'm using Frank818's harness. However my harness ECUs (not engine ECU) and many wires are from InfinityBox (like Redfogo) and yes I could do it without a driver, relay or anything, with just 2 wires and programming the InfinityBox cell. The problem is I need 1 more output wire that is not in use right now and I have to ask the guys in Chicago to change the code. When there's a code change I need to update it with a hardware they sell and accept return for (15% stocking fees). I already did that once when I changed all my stuff to match my devices and rules. I'd need to do it again for the Eagle Eyes if I want to.

The result for that solution is I have no unused output left. I'd have to buy a complete 10-output cell (515 bucks), have the code changed (free), buy the code uploader hdw (330 bucks), find space for the added cell, wire up, etc. and get a 85% refund back on the uploader I'd ship back. Cost: 515 + 85% of 330 + shippping say 30 + taxes 125 = 720 bucks. I think I can find cheaper ways. I'd rather invest 720 in a Boyd/Craig fuel tank.

Even if I'd knew 2 years ago about those Eagle Eyes, I wouldn't be able to use my harness cuz I need the outputs where they are now and I'd still be missing 1.
It'll work fine with the drivers I'll cut off of those tube lights. These drivers should support 1amp minimum, the Eagle Eyes are 750mA each, at 12v when engine not running.

[Frank818]

The switchback driver is used to control power to the lights based off a time delay and turn signal trigger.

Mainly when you power the white DRLs, all is good. Then when the turn signal's signal is sent to the driver, it shuts off power on the white leds and intermittently give it to the yellows, but encapsulated within a time frame, meaning while keeping the white leds off. In other words once the turn signal's signal is received, it shuts off the white leds for a period of time. Even if you just ON-OFF quickly the turn signal, the driver will wait 1-2sec before giving back the power to the white leds. That's cuz the turn signals are intermittent and not constant power.

I need that time delay for capturing a 2nd signal and keeping the white leds off between the 2 signals.

[Mechie3]

Ohhhhh...You're trying to do what Audi does. DRL are on but switch off when the blinker is going vs just leaving them on while the blinker is on. Right?

[Frank818]

Yeah absolutely!

The tubes work perfect, but the Eagle Eyes aren't meant for that although they all sell them as "switchbacks".

It's now not just Audi but many others do that too. Many also shut off the low beam of the headlight, I'm not going to go that far, though.

[STiPWRD]

Frank, why not just use a relay? It just seems way simpler. I bought the same switch back LEDs btw.
switchback.jpg

[Frank818]

Not sure what your diagram does. Those are diodes?
What happens when the blinker is off? Does the relay immediately (in milliseconds) switches back to the DRLs? If yes then it will also flash the DRLs in between the yellows.

[STiPWRD]

Yes, those are diodes (as in light emitting diodes - LED). When the blinker is off, the DRL 12V power lights up the white LEDs (resting position of the relay), when the blinker is switched on, it energizes the relay to divert that DRL voltage to power the yellow LEDs. The switchback is immediate.

[Frank818]

Sorry I meant if they were diodes like 1N4001 and others or those that revert current, etc.

Cuz you need something for the time delay here. A plain simple 5-pin relay without a delay feature will work very odd. I tried it and when the blinker LIGHT is off, but the Subaru blinker arm is still ON, the DRLs turn on and blink when the blinkers don't and vice versa, cuz the power to the blinker lights is off, but it's not really off cuz your arm lever is still on. The relay switches power based on the current received for the blinker light, which is not the same as from your steering column arm lever.

Maybe I should take a video?