Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

!!MAJOR UPDATE!!

Ok today is a major update in this build.

We prepped the frame to test fit the engine/tranny. Had to cut the Subaru engine supports, made a huge mess cuz we used a torch and water to cool down. But the result is great, almost no damage to the powder coat:

2014-09-06 10.16.18.jpg2014-09-06 10.16.26.jpg2014-09-06 10.16.36.jpg2014-09-06 10.16.51.jpg


While the engine was out, I found a cracked bolt edge on the tranny casing, but there is still strength on it. Not much I can do for that!

2014-09-06 10.46.39.jpg


Then we started test fitting.

With a 6sp 02A tranny, the VR6 does NOT fit without major frame (and possibly body) modifications.

Then my heart stopped for a couple of seconds.

With a 5sp OEM tranny, might be extremely tight or would not fit. My guess is would not. My guess is any transversal engine/tranny setup have good chances not to fit. Car engines, for bike engines I don't know.

The culprit is the width of the block and tranny. The reason why we couldn't measure things up before we got the engine out is cuz everything was bolted on and extremely hard to get precise measurements, we had to get the engine out to measure. Besides, this width depends on where the axles will fit and that also was too hard to measure in place.

The block and tranny are 35" wide and fit a few inches in front of the axles. Since it fits at the same height as the axle, the distance between the bottom of the left frame to the right bottom frame is about 25". Impossible to get 10". The big cross bars that support the shocks from top to bottom of the chassis cannot be altered without altering seriously the design of the car. Therefore, the 6sp 02A tranny with VW VR6 engine is a NO GO.

2014-09-06 11.57.10.jpg2014-09-06 11.57.17.jpg2014-09-06 11.57.28.jpg


At that point I realized my budget is totally out of whack and there is probably no way I will build this car for a decent price. And now I know that it will probably not be over until Autumn 2015.

My next post will detail my next steps. Cuz no, this project is not dead.

[Frank818]

There are options. The one I chose may surprise many: mate a Porsche G50 to the VR6 using a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate. It's been done in a Porsche already.

0dbdc5b8.jpg745bc21b.jpg8f58e657.jpg5eca88a2.jpg

The G50 is 23" long, what's the length of the Subaru 5sp?

It seems to fit a few inches before the last bar of the tranny support on the frame, I think that's fine enough.
The axles will fit pretty much at the same place as the Subaru's. I think my mech measured the distance between the axles and engine block to be 7.5", which is more than enough to clear out the frame.

Plus, the VR6 will now fit longitudinally, which will give a lot of space on each side. But the length of the block with pulleys is about 19.5", we measured it would fit from under 0.5" from the rear FW, there is play but super tight.

Now I will have my turbo outlet on the right side, exactly the same as you guys. The engine will clear out the top cross bars under the humps. Might clear out the bolted on suspension brace, but that one is easily modifiable. The block will clear it, but not sure about my coil pack.

The sound of the VR6 has a lot of value to me, I am paying for it now. It's still worth moving on with it rather than using a Subaru H4 or H6, as my VR6 fits all of my engine needs, which is not the case with the H4 and H6. I don't care having a higher center of gravity for road purposes. So with a G50 tranny, I do not see real drawbacks. The main one of course is cost of all this turnaround. It's either I pay to move on with it or I throw out my Corrado with engine and the 818. That is not an option, the loss of those 2 will be way too much, I will have to find ways to finance the cost increase, period.

My mech already has a G50 tranny ready to use, so easy to find one for me. I will go back to 5sp then, but the 1st gear has about the same ratios as I have now, that is important. Also the reverse will be like you guys, in place of the 6sp on the shifter, so no need for me to build a reverse gear that would be left to the 1st on the k-tuned shifter that is not made for that.

I knew the risks. I decided to try even though I couldn't have all the precise measurements, I failed partly, but I won't stop there, as full failure has never been an option and never will be.

[Speedy G]

Crap! That's bad news. Yeah, the cross bar sucks... You're probably better off anyway, since that VW tranny is not the strongest, now you have options.

Check out my thread regarding tranny length: Tranny length

Also I've been looking at alternative tansaxles. The G50 is an option and will most probably fit, but also take a look at boxter transaxles. The G50 was a rear engine, while the boxter is a mid-engine. There is a difference in lubrication that could be relevant at your power levels. I haven't decided what to do, but I may be looking at a PBS squential.

Good luck!

Speedy G

[Speedy G]

Btw, I've considered everything from powerglides with all sorts of rear ends with custom couplings (C5, Ford 9", Ford 8.8", etc), but definitely the easiest is a porsche transaxle or a subbie transaxle. In your case it might be easier for you to use the tranny from the donor, just rebuilt for torque. Subbie trannies are long, but if you have the frame, you're half way there. I'm including the schematics from the PBS so you get an idea of the dimensions of other transaxles. The PBS is shorter than the subbie and way stronger than the porsche transaxles. What sucks about porsche is the price f everything.or

PBSS4.jpg

You could consider a FWD passat longitudinal 6 speed. They'll probably bolt right up, and from the following pic, they'll probably fit, but you'll at least need a cryo treatment. Your current flywheel/clutch might even work.

IMG00642.jpg

Speedy G

[Speedy G]

Btw, if you go with a boxter tranny, it should be the G86.20, a 6 speed. I've seen them for 2500 on ebay and 5k new. If you do go with a G50, here's a relevant thread:http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech...-inverted.html

[Frank818]

This post may not be of interest to anyone who doesn't plan on fitting a different transaxle than the Subaru's.

Tnx Speedy for the suggestions. I did search a lot and checked many options. Unfortunately the PBS only has one with 5sp (others are 4sp) and the available gear ratios are way too short for road driving a very light car. More suited for offroad or electric. At least that's my opinion. Besides, according to the precise measurements above, some measurements are way off to make it fit with the VR6. And I don't have an adapter plate either.

The G86 has bad ratios as well and I couldn't find a gear set for this one. Also I do not know if anyone makes an adapter plate to mate it with the VR6, maybe KEP does but I didn't ask. The other thing is I do not know if it will fit. Because everything is EXTREMELY tight in the engine bay and transaxle sections, a quarter of an inch too many can throw out a solution. I could not find precise measurements of the G86 either.

Everyone installing a non-Subaru engine and/or a non-Subaru tranny should read this : FFR did not build a kit and dump in a Subaru transplant. They took the Subaru transplant and built a kit around it! Which means they didn't take into account any free space anywhere, which is ok of course, that was the plan. Anyone trying to fit something else will have a lot of headaches and will be very limited in terms of engine/tranny choices.

BTW, a Porsche H6 will not fit without important frame mods. It's 21.5" long and the Porsche gearboxes usually have a face of bell housing to axle center around 8" apart, which makes the whole transplant too long by about 2". Plus, the Porsche engine will hit the forward rear lateral link's supports. I checked with one engine at the shop.


So my solution was to land on a Porsche '89 G50/01. Easy measurements, as I have a tranny in my hands! The beauty of this gearbox is that it's very strong, versatile and scalable. First of, as you can see in the pix I have to fit it inverted (upside-down) for 2 reasons: this allows to drive the car forward when the engine is in front of the G50 and second it lowers the engine by about 1.5" to clear the top. The oil pan should arrive just above the belly pan. I will use NACA scoops to air cool the oil pan, as the VR6 is not designed to be in a closed engine bay (nor the Subaru's) and NACA scoops don't affect drag, or very negligible.

Then I can change any of the 5 gear ratios independently. The available ratios on the market are huge, I can get easily what I need. About $900 per gear. Sounds expensive, but on the Audi 01E FWD 6-sp tranny (same as Passat B5 or something, it's mostly a TDI tranny) in order to get a custom set of 6 ratios it's about $8-9k!!!! And that tranny would hold my engine higher. Good thing is it's 125lbs and the G50 is 150lbs. Heavy.

Having the right gear ratios is very important for me. You could have the best car in the world, if the gear ratios aren't suited for it, you will not have fun driving it. I am not investing all that crap load of money to have too short gears or something.

The VR6 engine, from the crank's bolt to the block edge where the bell housing bolts, has 19.5" long (wide, but in a longitudinal installation it becomes the length), + 0.665" for the adapter plate, + 8" for the axles distance from bell housing and as you can see on the pix it gets really pushed backwards. The axles will always be at an angle 2-ways: horizontal and vertical, cuz the axles sit quite high on the tranny once inverted. I calculated the axles will be 3-4" backwards than the hubs, which is a lot. It's ok but it's limit. Should be more like 1-2". Also the axles will be very close to the small V cross bar when the car will be at full suspension compression. They will push forward due to the angle but I am sure it will be limit. And for that, I have no solution!

Then the rear FW will need to be installed on the inside of the tank area to give more engine clearance. No that's not all, my fuel pressure regulator which is fitted on the far front of the engine (when longitudinal) MAY hit directly one of the big V cross bar of the rear FW. If not, it will go inside the tank area close to the bar. Cuz it protrudes by about 1-1.5" from the crank's bolt. I may need to relocate the FPR, no issue, but that's another task on the list. It never ends, just to fit a different engine and tranny. Careful if you go that route!

All is limit. Limit everywhere!

There is a build thread here the TDI 98mpg Obama 818. He fitted a VW TDI with Audi tranny. Unfortunately his build thread doesn't mention any trick and doesn't show clear pix of the transplant, nor his photobucket-like build. So I couldn't use any of this very valuable information and had to check everything from scratch. He's the closest I know of fitting a complete different transplant. But I think it's a 4-cyl, not a 6.

The thing with the Subaru gearbox is that the face of bell housing to axle center distance is 6.5"!!!

WRX tranny.jpg

That is very short. Many gearboxes have a distance of 7.5 to 8.5", so you are loosing a lot just there (or gaining, if you use Subaru). And that measure is of high importance. Unless you have a very compact engine. The VR6 is already quite compact, but there are shorter 4cyls around, but they are not a 6!

I will have a lot of weight in the back, but I have no choice. What s*cks is that I pay not to get better parts or performance, but just to fit the parts. I pay to get parts that fit, whether or not they are better parts is of no importance, otherwise I can't fit the engine in. That is a very hard pill to swallow, but in the end the G50 with perfect gear ratios will probably work excellent and once I get it on the road I will forget that I most probably am building the most expensive 818 yet and I won't get much more than what you guys get. But my gearbox won't blow up and I will be able to get the best gear ratios to maximize traction and fun, that is super important for me. I want to pursue, we know things will fit, now.

If anyone needs to know, the axle-to-axle distance on the G50 is 10". So 10" wide at the axles. We have 13.5" of space there on the kit. I do not know the width of the WRX tranny.


2014-09-12 13.58.24.jpg2014-09-12 14.03.15.jpg2014-09-12 14.04.29.jpg2014-09-12 14.19.34.jpg2014-09-12 14.24.54.jpg

[Aero STI]

I wish you luck as you continue this endeavor. The juice would not be worth the squeeze for me.

I'm wondering, did other builders misguide you on how much room was available for the motor and trans, or did you not ask for these measurements upfront?

[Frank818]

I'm wondering, did other builders misguide you on how much room was available for the motor and trans, or did you not ask for these measurements upfront?

I have asked for lots of measurements and I was guided very good by a few people here who posted pictures of the measurements. I believe I had all the measurements, it's the ones on my engine when installed in the Corrado that were imprecise. It was not possible to take all of the measurements with enough precision and I guessed that I had enough play around. I didn't. It was way too difficult to picture precisely where the engine/tranny would end up or if other parts would cuz a problem. All was a matter of 1" or less in my measurements. Maybe 2" for one or the measurement. So the error must be 0, but when the engine is installed and there is no place to take precise measurements, you have an error and I fell into it.

But the more I think about it, once I get my right gear ratios, this VR6/G50 setup should be very interesting and I should be very happy. But if I knew before hand about the fitting, I would have thought different or done different or not bought an 818 at all. Now it's too late, if I don't continue, I will lose everything and find myself without a summer fun car. Worst case I'll sell one of my bikes, but I think if I take a little more time I can continue financing. It's just that it won't be worth what it'll cost. On the other hand, I don't plan on upgrading the engine, I stopped a few years back, going any further and I have to change every internal, so it's a 10-20k upgrade just to get 50, 100, 200whp more. I know I won't dump 15k every year on upgrading something, once I build it, I will maintain it, but that's all.

[Aero STI]

You can still go with a Subaru drivetrain. I would suggest reading a bit about sunk costs.

[305mouse]

Could you move the fire wall forward and put the tank in the front? That will gain you some much needed space

[metalmaker12]

So are you going forward on this vw 818

[Rasmus]

That totally sucks.

On the plus-side, kids are crashing their WRX's everyday.

[Speedy G]

Well, it fits... At your power levels, it's probably best to invest in a tranny that can hold the power without problems anyway. That way you can drive it hard. The weight further back may mean better braking and maybe you'll be able to do powerslides which is something the 818 usually can't do. Can I ask what you're paying for the G50? A differential is probably a good idea too. I like wavetracs, they're like peloquins or quaifes but if a tire is off the ground it maintains torque to the other wheel.

Also, you talk about ratios, I totally agree, the proper ratios are totally worth it. May I ask what you're thinking? I'd think you'd need close ratios to get the best use of your turbo, but a low final ratio to make use of your massive torque, but not too low so that starting on a hill is difficult. When do you get full boost, 4000RPM? If so you'd probably want 2000RPM drops so as to stay in the boost zone on shifting?

Judging from what people are saying, 300 ft lbs of torque on a stock wrx tranny, 1st gear pretty much breaks loose, but it's manageable. You have probably 30% more torque than that. Although you have more weight in the back, and you'll hook up better than other 818s, your starting line ratio will have to be lower than the stock tranny. The stock tranny with 300 ft lbs of torque puts down around 3834ft lbs to the road in 1st. To keep the same torque to the road so you keep traction, you'll have to lower the SLR from (3.7*3.454) 12.78 down to around (3834 / 400) 9.58. That also means first gear is good to 50mph and your top ratio on the G50 (if you only change the final ratio) would give you a car a top speed of 205mph (328kph). That's with a 2.74 final ratio.

Btw with your engine, the numbers for this car are better than the lamborghini aventador but not quite at the Koennigsegg level. Just think about that when you pay the bill for the tranny. The stock wrx tranny would make you slip and slide like your corrado used to, and the same goes for the corrado tranny (3.3 first with a 3.6 final drive is 11.88 SLR, too much for your torque level).

Cheers!

Speedy G

[Frank818]

You can still go with a Subaru drivetrain. I would suggest reading a bit about sunk costs.

There are other problems of doing this. I will lose money on my VW engine and stand alone ECU (after selling them), adding that lost to the cost of a 400whp Subaru drivetrain and I am probably equal if not worst than now. It's still an option, but it will be my last to take if I encounter major issues later on. So far we test fitted the main parts and it's ok. Super close in some areas but nothing dangerous. Measured same things 3-4 times using 2-3 different angles and it ends up ok.

Could you move the fire wall forward and put the tank in the front? That will gain you some much needed space

Yes I thought that, but I am not sure rewelding the cross bars, currently between the tank and engine, at another location (forward) is good for the frame's structure. I'll ask FFR.
I could get a Boyd tank and install it in the normal location but forward, clearing up 3" in the back and moving forward 3" the rear cross bars, if FFR says it's ok. With that mod, than all would fit easily.

So are you going forward on this vw 818

Yes and no. I lost the gearbox, so half of it is not VW anymore.
I am now going forward with the VW/Porsche 818. Still interesting to me, though!

[Speedy G]

Frank, although you have the G50 in your hand, maybe the G86/20 could be a better fit even if it's more expensive, not as strong as the G50, and the ratios may not be as available. Check out this thread:

http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/te...l-install.html

Although that's not a G86/20, I can't imagine the dimension would be that different since they fit in the same car (S vs regular). I'd give California Motorsports a call, just in case. I'd hate for your axles to hit the frame with the G50. The price for a rebuilt one sounds about the same as a rebuilt G50 .

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Can I ask what you're paying for the G50?

$CAD5K. We checked the oil and it's awesome, my mech will open it this week (before I pay) and check inside, but it looks in excellent condition and the guy he got it from, he knows him.
On ebay you can get such trannies for 4 to 6k, USD, not rebuilt. Maybe some rebuilt for 6k, though. Add the shipping and taxes and that would be a huge amount! My mech's G50 is cheap, no taxes and no shipping, I can hardly find any better. I will have the option to change my ratios to what I need, if I need to. Though my current VW gearbox has awesome ratios, I realized that was on a front engine, front wheel drive, 50% heavier car. Might be quite different on the 818, I don't know, but what I know is that 02A cannot have different ratios (unless I get 5-6th only) than the ones it got. The G50 has full scalability and that has value to my eyes.

A differential is probably a good idea too. I like wavetracs

I am buying Wavetrac. That's what I got in the 02A too.

they're like peloquins or quaifes but if a tire is off the ground it maintains torque to the other wheel.

Exactly! Wavetrac doesn't.

Also, you talk about ratios, I totally agree, the proper ratios are totally worth it. May I ask what you're thinking?

Too early to tell, I have to drive the car and feel it. I have some goals though: I want to maximize traction, so I need a ratio that would allow say 5% spin. Of course I will never find one, unless I try many! I have one chance to get my ratios, I won't buy a bunch and sell the ones I don't like. If it spins way too much in 2nd or 3rd, I will get taller ones.
I also like a lot a 1st gear that is tall. Say going up to 90-95km/h. I'll see what this one does (I know it's 70), but I may not like it (too short).

I'd think you'd need close ratios to get the best use of your turbo, but a low final ratio to make use of your massive torque

The FD is 3.44, I don't plan on changing that one. It's relatively low. But I could, yeah.

When do you get full boost, 4000RPM?

3200 or so. But I control it to smooth out the boost and kick back. So now it may be a little higher, 3500, say.
Yup I plan on staying within the boost curve. But all this will be in a year. As I will need to drive it many times to get the hang of it. So far all this is just speculation, I have to finish my build first.

Judging from what people are saying, 300 ft lbs of torque on a stock wrx tranny, 1st gear pretty much breaks loose, but it's manageable.

Well I'm impressed, cuz with the Corrado 2nd gear was not easy to manage and if I recall I never used to go over 4500 with it, it was more powerful to shift in 3rd and floor it. I had the right amount of spin, or none at all (when on hotter days), in 3rd. Was my favorite gear!

But this is a totally different game. I don't want to compare cuz if we recall my first few posts, I am pretty sure I have a problem with my t-body, it's too big for the smaller intake tubing and I have no ramp inside to control air flow. A touch of the pedal and I believe too much air flows inside. When flooring, from 67% to 100% opening it never made a difference on power. So if I am at 100% and I lift off at 75%, the car continued to accelerate like if I was at full WOT. That power issue only happened under boost. Under vacuum, 80% was 80, 95 was 95, etc. I have a matching t-body now and will install after I get the car registered. And re-do all my fuel tuning. But by then all the build will be complete.

That also means first gear is good to 50mph and your top ratio on the G50 (if you only change the final ratio) would give you a car a top speed of 205mph (328kph). That's with a 2.74 final ratio.

1st gear is already 70km/h with a 3.5 ratio 1st and 3.44 FD.

Btw with your engine, the numbers for this car are better than the lamborghini aventador but not quite at the Koennigsegg level.

I already checked with a lot of supercars and motorbikes, yes.
But some people on this forum are building WRX engines with more power. And less weight. So I am not the most powerful, nor the lightest.

the same goes for the corrado tranny (3.3 first with a 3.6 final drive is 11.88 SLR, too much for your torque level).

2.7 1st gear and 3.66 FD on the EuroSpecSport tranny.
My old 02A 1st gear was 3.78 if I recall, on a 3.64 FD.

[Frank818]

Frank, although you have the G50 in your hand, maybe the G86/20 could be a better fit even if it's more expensive, not as strong as the G50, and the ratios may not be as available. Check out this thread:

http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/te...l-install.html

Although that's not a G86/20, I can't imagine the dimension would be that different since they fit in the same car (S vs regular). I'd give California Motorsports a call, just in case.

I'll take a look tnx. I have to remember that the G86 does not have a speedo. I need a speedo since I am using the VW cluster.
I also don't think this one can be run inverted, which would put the engine higher and might cause other fitment issues.

So you think the G86/20 is smaller than the G50?

[Speedy G]

Man that's crazy low RPM for full boost, awesome!

It's not that it's smaller, but the axles are lower since it's already meant for a mid-engine setup (you don't have to flip it). Also, it looks like it's only 7.8" flange-axle centers. Rebuilt I've seen them for USD4400.

http://www.vertexauto.com/showitem.a...0%241%2C500.00

The speedo... Yeah, that's a downer. Although there are GPS speedos, like Eric's. Also, the one bad thing about the G86/20 is that the gears are pressed so you're stuck with the gearing, although there are gearing kits (oops that's a 5 speed kit):

http://www.gboxweb.com/boxchart.html

I've seen people mention Albins making final ratios, but I think it's numerically higher (4:1), not lower.

Btw no wonder you're pissed about the tranny, you already had one that could take the abuse

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Tnx Speedy.

G86 for USD4400, that's CAD$4900 not shipped and without taxes. So more expensive to begin with than my mech's G50 (which is a 1988 G50/01, not 03). Then the speedo thing. Then the gearing, which even with your 4 choices I can't find anything close to what I believe I will like. And like I said, I'd rather pay 10k for a full tranny with LSD and 5 gears exactly like I want than any other tranny I can't gear to my likings. The G86 may save myself 1" (or 0.13"? And the Audi 012 1", not sure) and would be ok for shafts, but no one knows what other hassles I may encounter. That's the problem when you don't have the tranny handy or can't get a good enough mock-up. I am not sure I would risk that. If the G86 or 012 is better than the G50 only cuz it gives 1" more, knowing the other risks, I wouldn't give it a try.

The 012, well after googling I couldn't find any custom gear sets. It may exist but maybe not shown much on internet, I would have to spend maybe hours looking for something I don't know if it exists. If it does, than still same issues, I have to mock-up somehow the 012 with precise measurements, knowing exactly where it'll couple on the engine and for that I need to find someone who builds an adapter plate. Maybe KEP. But then what? Gear ratios, speedo, etc. GPS speedo is nice if I weren't using the VW cluster.

This is the problem with fitting something other than Subaru. If you change one thing, you may have to change others. Fixing one issue may cause you 3 other issues.

At 7.87", that's virtually the same as 8" that I have on the G50.

The only thing about the G50 is the tight fit of the shafts with the cross bars supporting the rear transaxle's support. Since the transaxle sits a little higher cuz it's inverted, the shafts are also pointing down and will probably never go high enough to hit the bars, but I don't know the suspension travel, so I can't check it out.

What I just did now is sent an email to FFR techs asking about these bars, what if I modify them, besides supporting the transaxle's support and small upper lateral link bracket, do they do any other task? We'll see. If they say no, then the hell with that I will modify them most probably, as long as they still support the transaxle's support.

RearTransaxleBars.jpeg

[Speedy G]

Well it sounds like you made a decision. One of the difficult things about G50s is finding a good one. It sounds like you already did that, so that's one less thing on your plate.

[Frank818]

Speedy, probably yes. Everything I check brings me back to that G50, so it must be an interesting option. Once I get the answer from the techies I'll see if I can modify the transaxle supporting bars.

Sure, I'd really love to get the gearbox heard here http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/v...ing-2014-09-12, but I'll pass!
Of course, who on Earth would want a 544bhp 1.6 inline 4 engine getting to 60mph under 2sec? I just want the gearbox.

[Speedy G]

Hi Frank, in my case the motor will be much shorter then even the wrx motor (about 15 inches and no gas tank), I'm wondering if a PBS tranny will fit. The PBS has something like 12 inches from flange to axel. That means moving the tranny forward about 6 inches. Do you see anything that could hinder the tranny moving forward 6 inches and keep the same axel positions?

[Frank818]

Hi Frank, in my case the motor will be much shorter then even the wrx motor (about 15 inches and no gas tank), I'm wondering if a PBS tranny will fit. The PBS has something like 12 inches from flange to axel. That means moving the tranny forward about 6 inches. Do you see anything that could hinder the tranny moving forward 6 inches and keep the same axel positions?

None that I can think of, no red flag but a yellow flag for sure. It will probably be almost as tight as me, but should fit. Take very precise measurements to make sure.

Currently I know that a 19.5" long engine with a 8" bell housing to axle center will fit, though very tight on the rear tranny support tubes (vertical tubes) and a bit too much offset on the axles (from hub centers). Ideally you don't want that.

Overall that's 27.5". I can hardly see anyone fitting a drivetrain from front of engine to transaxle's axle centers more than 27.5" (without frame mods). You have to make precise measurements and if you think you come too close to that, quadruple your measurements and reduce your margin until you are spot on with the reality. You have to make sure. Besides, my 27.5" might be off by 0.5", it depends how much clearance can be achieved between the rear FW tubes (gas tank) and engine or if one wants to risk pushing back the axle centers more.

In your case, 12+15=27, so to me it's fine and you will probably have an axle offset around 2.5-3.5". Make sure of your 15"! I have seen the 12" on the PBS drawing, so I guess that one is right.

What are the other e818 installing? They don't have that length issue?

[svanlare]

That totally sucks I was hoping that this would go together smooth for you.

Given the dimensions, seems like if you start by lining up the axels (pushing the engine forward, the big issue is what to do with the gas tank. Your idea of the boyd tank (ordered mine today) and using it in the reverse way from the rest of us seems like a good idea to get yourself some more room.

[Frank818]

Tnx Steve, I was hoping the same! loll But I was also realistic knowing the worst could happen, since I am doing all the R&D on that stuff. So far I am in between, which isn't that bad.

I have a few options for the axles, I just don't know what trouble I would enter into if I modify all the tubes behind the gas tank, those are big and certainly very important. Boyd tank forward or front gas tank would be the only 2 options if I mod those big tubes. Time will tell, I believe I should know before the end of the first week of Nov. The custom G50 flywheel takes 3 weeks lead time.

[Frank818]

For USD80 bucks I got my windshield installed and this is the small caps "h" trim Wayne was talking about.

On this side the h is reversed but on the driver's side it's like an h on the correct side.

2014-10-01 17.16.51.jpg

[Frank818]

While I am waiting for my adapter plate to couple the gearbox with the engine, I found what appeared to be a new goal, smoking that go-kart. But after looking at the video, it's pointless, I think the guy has had enough of smoke already.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/w...fun-2014-10-07

[Frank818]

GSS341 (Walbro-like) pump drops right in. Had to use a Porsche clamp in order to get rid of the thick screw on standard clamps which causes fitting issues. Had to cut the clamp slightly and now it's super easy to get in and out.

2014-10-11 08.27.53.jpg2014-10-11 08.30.26.jpg

[Frank818]

My seat brackets solution. Will be welded on the frame. Fixed, no adjustment once installed. Only the back of the seat can tilt (electrically) to give the best angle for driving position.

2014-10-18 11.58.08.jpg2014-10-18 11.58.14.jpg2014-10-18 11.58.20.jpg

[RM1SepEx]

Frank, you need to practice more on your welding, penetration looks marginal, weld is "puddled" vs nice fish scale appearance of a good weld. Using a mig? Increase your power setting and adjust wire feed rate

[Frank818]

Hey Dan, actually my mech did it with its welder, which looks like a mig according to the pix I've seen on google. I know f*ck all about welding. There is a very small needle and it makes a bright blue spot when he welds. I think I heard it was arc welding or something. It uses a huge cylinder tank, probably oxygen.

Are you saying the welds may break off?

[Scargo]

Ouch. Except for diplomacy, he's correct. Those don't look particularly good. Looks like cold MIG. Poor penetration.
I don't like to show my welding. I have TIG. I am getting better after a 35 year hiatus. Steel should be relatively easy.

[Frank818]

So, are we saying the welds may break off or it's just bad cuz it looks bad in a place where no one will see? Cuz looks doesn't mean bad quality. That's what I'm trying to understand here.
I don't think we will re-do the welds so they would look better to the eyes, but I will sure shout at my mech and force him to re-do them if there is a risk the welds may break off.

[RM1SepEx]

I'd worry about it for a seat mounting in an accident. The only way to tell is to destruct a weld and see how it breaks. That's how my welding instructor did it in college

Big diff in strength with little penetration

[Frank818]

Ok tnx guys, like I said you know what I know about welding, so if you are worried then I am too!
I'll take a hammer and hit hard on the brackets to see if they hold up. I guess if they do then it means I can trust the welds.

Or I buy my own mig, practice and weld them myself. I'll see how much that thing cost.

EDIT: Forget about the O2 tank, that's for the torch and has nothing to do with the welder. I thought they were connected together but no.

EDIT2: Do you think a 120v 130-150amps is enough for that type of bracket and for welding the same metal as the FFR frame?

EDIT3: Actually my question is more like what welder specs is ok for welding such metal? Voltage, amps, duty cycle, with regulator or not, etc. The good news is, the welders are on good sale at my local place!

[RM1SepEx]

I've been using my Daytona mig 140 for 30 years, more than enough power for most work, heavy frame work I go to the tried and true Lincoln AC225 arc welder. Eastman has some nicely priced MIGs http://www.eastwood.com/mig135-welde...UEoxoClT7w_wcB just pick up a gas tank for the gas locally. Don't do flux wire, go with cover gas

MIG welding is easy, practice makes perfect.

[Frank818]

Tnx Dan, I'll look around. Hopefully I can grind off my mech's welds and re-do them myself after some practice.
This kit car will definitely make me learn all the skills I've always been lacking.

[Scargo]

What Dan said. There's one weld in particular that I can see that looks like poop. Like metal was pooped onto the surface. It should be ground back and redone, and any others like it.
MIG is easy to learn. You can MIG aluminum, too.
No 220v. handy? I can get 150 amps with 120v. and 200 amps with 240v. with my Miller DX 200 TIG. With that power I am supposed to be able to do 1/4" steel and aluminum. Agreed that 130~150 can do most anything steel on the car.

[RM1SepEx]

My mig is 120 volts, 140 amp with limited duty cycle at that output. You need a special 20 amp 120 volt outlet. The std metal used by FFR on brackets and up to 3/16 I'd use the top power setting. The .063 or .065 tubing I'd do at position 3 around 110 amps

don't scrimp on cover gas turn it up to ensure coverage and get a smooth weld. Joint prep is essential to getting a good weld. Practice on scraps you will get a handle on it pretty quickly

[Frank818]

Ok so reading this a 65amp or 80amp welder will not be sufficient? They can weld 1/8 or 20ga but you mention the FFR frame metal is 3/16?

EDIT: The 80amp welder at 50% rebate has 0.035" tubing for the biggest. Looks like that ain't gonna work?
Actually, even the one at 140amp doesn't have a tubing bigger than 0.035". So I guess these are crap? The 140amp is a Lincoln MIG-PAK 140. I thought Lincoln was a good one.