Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[nkw8181]

My . 02 into check and make sure your power source has enough amps (breaker) I had issues before I found low amperage to be the issue

[xatudor]

Just a suggestion, make sure the MIG's tip is clean and the correct size for the wire your using and make sure the parts are clean of oil and grease and practice alot.

[Frank818]

They called the gold stuff reflect-a-gold on the ebay ad, yeah. Don't know if DEI's better or not, but this one sticks pretty good and is easy to install. Can't comment on the heat protection yet of course.

I have enough amps on the breaker, I changed it when I bought the welder, to make sure I got enough.
Yes I do cut the wire tip every time I see a little ball or something not clean. I also use brake cleaner to ensure I remove any oil and grease and dry it off. With SS, what they say is true: the parts really need to be perfectly clean.


And I found my welding issue!!! The CTWD... my contact to weld distance was way too much! I followed the mild steel chart which says 1/2" long on the wire, but I actually need something more like 1/4". I re-read a Lincoln article and they say since SS conducts electricity less than mild steel, you have to reduce your distance from the weld. Now I get a nicer, crisper, higher tone pop-corn sound and I can weld as long as I want in one bead.

Of course if the metal has the same thickness. When I welded my BOV flange (a big bung), the flange is much thicker so I have more difficulties to keep the voltage going through. But it worked.

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On another note, anyone has an idea on how to connect 2 throttle cable (bicycle-like cables) ends that are cut like this?
I don't want to use big crimps or something cuz I don't want the crimps to hit on something and then my pedal will be stuck. I want something small enough and smooth enough so that it can move back and forth inside a tube (small or big, as long as it's protected from any outside situations that could block its movement).
This cable is made of SS. I tried to solder it, didn't work at all. I tried to weld it, blew off the cable even at the lowest voltage setting.

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[STiPWRD]

You may want to rebuild the throttle cable with an uninterrupted stretch of cable from end to end. Although I'm not sure who offers this service, maybe a local motorcycle shop? cccables.com? Maybe you can see where FFR got theirs made?

[Frank818]

Yeah thought about a custom made cable. Also thought it would be expensive for fixing a simple "cut" in the cable. Also I want to keep the OEM VW cable end as it fits perfectly of course in my cable bracket and it's not the same fitting as Subaru.

In the end I think I'll go will this:

http://www.prorig.com.au/stainless-s...-shade-sail-CP

One cable in each hole. Will probably use 2 swages inline so that it keeps cables together better. Doesn't take much space either.

[Frank818]

Cool I welded my more expensive parts!

But first I welded my 2 intake temp sensors, here's one. Oh no, that's my Synchronic's flange, sorry! loll I admit it didn't go super well on the IC sensors, I wonder if the metal was the cause, you'll see later why I say that. It went nice on the BOV flange, thought not perfect.

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This is my turbo outlet with a special v-band flange designed for the GT35 with a lip inside and the OD has an odd diameter cuz the turbo turbine's flange has an odd diameter (I also have the clamp with an odd diameter!). The flange fits perfect and tight so I decided to use it.
I am very happy of the tacks I made. That metal welds awesome, I don't know if it's more conductible but it's awesome it worked nicely. After 2 tacks the pipe moved inside the flange and I had to tap on the latter with a hammer to replace it snug. SS does expand.
As you can see, the pipe fits inside the flange and it's the same for the flex bellows (not shown) and the muffler! So actually I won't need to use gas inside the pipe to prevent rust on the bead, except if I weld a pipe-to-pipe, maybe I might do 1 or 2.

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And the final result. I am averagely happy of it. I had maybe 10% poping issues, otherwise it welded without any current cuts. I welded small sections at a time. Boy oh boy SS expands! lolll I wanted to test fit it on the turbo and it couldn't fit! My body temp increased, cuz I thought I blew it! Then I let it cooled off and I was able to fit it snug inside with a hammer, very small taps. Phewwww lolll Guys, you're looking at $USD100 worth of parts! 2 parts. lolll I had no choice to buy these specialities.

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Why on earth the pix don't show up again... oh well.

[Canadian818]

Do Not Use Brake Cleaner to prep weld area!!!!! 99% of brake cleaners react to the UV light from welding to create phosgene gas, which is brutal on your nervous system. It can also take your breath away (trust me), and cause brain damage which results in..............squirrel!

All jokes aside, just use a clean stainless steel wire brush. Glad to see your progressing with the welding.

[Frank818]

Tnx for that man, I'll not use brake cleaner any more before welding. Although for my defence I admit I let it dry completely, rubbed with a cloth, then a wire brush and I am using a breather mask. But I won't take any other chances.


My exhaust is half finished! But first, my intake. I welded an extension to one of my intake piping. I used the cheap canadian trick of injecting gas inside the pipe. Seems to have work well, check out in the inside, not rusted.

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And my intake finished!

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And this is my exhaust, 1/2 finished. See why I needed that ultra-tight 90-deg elbow on the turbo outlet? No space for a finger.
Now, should I start the engine like this without the muffler?

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[Hindsight]

Really starting to come together now Frank! Looking great. I want to hear that first start!

[Speedy G]

Getting close! Btw what are you doing with the wastegate exhaust? I wouldn't route it back into the main exhaust. On my skoda, the wastegate bolts always came loose and killed the gaskets. I know I was running the tune to the limit, but still. The issue is 200C - 950C - 200C in 2 seconds really does wonder to bolts and fasteners in general. I really prefer the more modern v-clamp wastegate exhaust, then a flex coupling to the main exhaust, if you must (esthetic reasons).

That's kind of a weird manifold with the wastegate on its side, I guess it's that way so it can fit between the block and the firewall on the original installation...

[Frank818]

It's funny you ask about WG, I spent a couple hours trying to design the route... and it's going to be a PITA to fit!

I needed to check where to weld my muffler on the exhaust pipe so I had to fit the rear bumper in order to check clearances and where the exhaust tip would stand. Turns out I have almost no clearance around the shift brackets and rod and that my huge muffler takes so much space it is very hard to fit it. That damn stupid cross bar supporting the gearbox's support is at a very damn bad angle as I can't flipped the muffler around or it will hit on the bar. I need to clear out my axles and gearbox, I need to push the muffler as front as possible but doing so I need to flip it, for which I am very limited. If not I will be very limited on the back and will need two 90-deg ultra tight bends (like the 80bucks one on the turbo outlet) to make it.

I have no pic of my old downpipe and WG but that one had 4 performance issues:

1- The WG was coming in the main pipe 10-12" after the turbo. That's bad for flow and performance, need a good 17-18" length to tame off turbulences.
2- The WG had TWO 45-deg STRAIGHT CUT elbows, bad for flow and performance.
3- The WG hole was welded at a 90-deg out of the main pipe, bad for flow and performance.
4- The downpipe was crushed in order to clear the WG's flange integrated on the manifold, bad for flow and performance.

I will be fixing all 4 issues. Although it will take countless hours. As I said, one my main goals for this build is to have everything as optimal as the limits allow me. And boy that frame has got a lot of limits for me.

I will weld the WG pipe into the main pipe just before the muffler (16-17", can't have longer!) at a 45-deg or less angle. The routing of that WG pipe is hard to design.

I have also mocked-up my oil cooler location. It will pull air through it and then the rear bottom opening, no need to cut other openings. I'll live with that setup!

I spend so much time designing since September I have little time to carefully watch other people's builds and learn from what you guys do (tips, hints, etc.). I have to choose my battles, if that French expression is the same in English.


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[Frank818]

Started working on the car in May 2014. Was at my friend's shop until end of Nov 2014.

Time spent (APPROX) during that time: 250h (not counting my friend's time)
Time spent since then: 600h+ in 47 weeks of work (not approx, that's precise. 610-615, would have to check my notes)

I will hit 2000h for sure.
Funny thing is that kit can be built in 250h, according to FFR. OEM FFR... not VR6 like mine.

[Speedy G]

Haha, yeah right, fitment issues...

[choobs]

Always good to see progress! You could have probably gone without the flex section of your exhaust since the engine is now mounted longitudinally vs transverse. Did you leak test the welds? I saw a few areas where I would drill back the weld and lay down a small puddle one heat setting up on the welder.

[Frank818]

I did leak test the welds, but not on the exhaust pipe yet. Got more to weld on there, I'll wait till the end and cover up any leaking area, if any. That awesome 90-deg ultra tight elbow welds very very nicely. I welded my O2 bung today and it was a lot easier than my IC bungs and BOV flange on the intake (slightly different SS).

I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame, so the engine will move left-right, very slightly (my polyU engine mounts don't allow for much movement although they suppress vibrations extremely nicely).

The WG pipe is a pain to design and fab.

This week I hit a wall on my throttle cable. I never thought about that but since I cut 2 cables I had to attach them together, the thing is, if you cut the cable sleeve, which is made of metal inside, you lose all the tension of the cable. This means when I press on the pedal it actually twists the cable and move it around, instead of pulling the inner metal cable which opens up the T-body. Damn, that was a low hit on me, never thought of that one coming.

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So I found a way around, you have to attach tight both ends, like this:

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Now the cable doesn't move and when I press it pulls right away. The 2 alu swages seem to be very tight in place, should last.
Not a good looking solution, I'll have to better attach both sleeve ends and hopefully find a plastic or metal tubing I can place around the bare metal so it's not exposed. I think it won't harm if it is, though.

One thing to note, Tamra mentioned that already and fixed the issue, FFR badly designed the angle on the pedal side, right where the cable goes through the alu panel at the front. The angle of the cable is too much downwards, which means the cable grinds on the metal fitting, it's more annoying than problematic, but I'll see if there's anything quick and dirty I can do about it. Craig doesn't have any CNC part for this and I don't want to spend time designing something. I already design too much around! lolll Might leave it as a winter project in 2017.

[Scargo]

"I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame..." I would not have any of it solid. Something will crack. It all needs to float/have flexibility.

[Frank818]

"I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame..." I would not have any of it solid. Something will crack. It all needs to float/have flexibility.

That really is a no go for me. I don't have the clearance. If the muffler moves, it will hit the gearbox on one side and the frame on the other. Besides, Porsche fix solid their mufflers to the frame, as I've been told.

However, I will still use these hangers in order to remove vibrations:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...Rubber-Grommet

These are the ones that came with the FFR kit as well.


Welded back the crossbar I cut to fit the engine. Of course it's almost of no use now in terms of torsion but it's gonna be used to support some components, like overflow tank, for example.
On that same pic you can see where I welded the O2 bung. As close to the turbo outlet as possible.

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Here's a weld on the crossbar. Was not easy with the engine in place, especially on the left side (pictured).

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I don't understand what changed on the website, I can't have the pictures to show in thumbnails anymore.

[Hindsight]

Frank, I think the pics are too big to show inline. There is some filter on the site where up to a certain point, it shows them inline but go beyond that and it automatically shows them as links. You can shrink the pictures before posting or you can upload to imgur and then embed the imgur link from here. I do that, and when I do, I paste the link to the "huge thumbnail" version of my pics which is the perfect size for inline display here. Also prevents me from having to manually resize everything.

Build is looking good! I can't wait to get to the exhaust on mine.

[Scargo]

That really is a no go for me. I don't have the clearance. If the muffler moves, it will hit the gearbox on one side and the frame on the other. Besides, Porsche fix solid their mufflers to the frame, as I've been told.

However, I will still use these hangers in order to remove vibrations:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...Rubber-Grommet

Then, it's not solid. Cool beans. Good luck!

[Canadian818]

Hey frank, where did you source the hose for your remote reservoir?

[svanlare]

I can't comment much on the welding, other than to think I should have bought a welder for this project as I would have found many excuses to use it!

But there was a thread recently on how to get images to look the way you want them too in the general section (I was looking for the dates for Huntington Beach next year, normally I only look at the 818 board).

[Frank818]

Frank, I think the pics are too big to show inline. There is some filter on the site where up to a certain point, it shows them inline but go beyond that and it automatically shows them as links. You can shrink the pictures before posting or you can upload to imgur and then embed the imgur link from here. I do that, and when I do, I paste the link to the "huge thumbnail" version of my pics which is the perfect size for inline display here. Also prevents me from having to manually resize everything.

Build is looking good! I can't wait to get to the exhaust on mine.

That's probably it!! I'll test it next time, tnx for reminding!
You'll see that the exhaust is somewhat bigger to work with than wires. loll

Then, it's not solid. Cool beans. Good luck!

Ok good, tnx for confirming! It's true with some rubber it's not really metal to metal. Overall I can't allow much than 1/4" of movement. Unless I find a kick a-ss solution while installing the muffler.

Hey frank, where did you source the hose for your remote reservoir?

My remote reservoir? Which pic is that? The red hose on some pix?

I can't comment much on the welding, other than to think I should have bought a welder for this project as I would have found many excuses to use it!

But there was a thread recently on how to get images to look the way you want them too in the general section (I was looking for the dates for Huntington Beach next year, normally I only look at the 818 board).

Yes you should have, my project would have been halted or cost me a lot of money more just to get someone do the welding and having someone come home to do it, which is even more complicated. Besides I can weld at 3 or 4h in the morning (which I do), I don't think too many people would do it for me! The welder is as useful as my ratchets, screwdrivers, hammers, vice and other mandatory tools.

Yeah I totally forgot about the size limitation, I'm sure that's the problem.

tnx guys!

[Frank818]

Oh Adam! The brake remote reservoir? I can't recall taking a picture of that yet as I haven't reinstalled the master (was leaking), but those hoses are black, if it's what you referred to?

[Canadian818]

Oh Adam! The brake remote reservoir? I can't recall taking a picture of that yet as I haven't reinstalled the master (was leaking), but those hoses are black, if it's what you referred to?

Yes that's what I was referring to. I'm not going to bother with what was in my kit from Mike after hearing your experience. So I was wondering if you had sourced some as a replacement. And if so, where from?

[choobs]

I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame, so the engine will move left-right, very slightly (my polyU engine mounts don't allow for much movement although they suppress vibrations extremely nicely)..

Yeah you need SOME flexibility in the system so the flex section and rubber grommets should be just fine.

[Frank818]

Adam I just used some fuel lines. Similar to those provided by FFR. If it supports fuel, it can support any other car fluid. I got them from Car Quest.

[Hindsight]

Frank, Fuel hose won't last long with brake fluid. You want EPDM or butyl rubber. Mcmaster has it.

[Canadian818]

Adam I just used some fuel lines. Similar to those provided by FFR. If it supports fuel, it can support any other car fluid. I got them from Car Quest.

And it's holding up fine? A quick Google search had me thinking fuel lines were no good for brake fluid.

[Frank818]

EPDM hoses are used for both oily liquids (glycol, brake fluid, etc.), and volatile liquids (gasoline, kerosene, etc.).
Been almost 2 months with the hoses on and they look absolutely perfect. I've manipulated them a lot today and no issues at all.
Don't use the softer lines, you need the harder ones. Not the full hard but those just before.

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The brake fluid I use is Racing DOT4, thought it was DOT5.1 but no, DOT 4.

But maybe 2 months is not enough. You got me thinking... I'll try to remove them and see inside if they decompose.

Yes you got thinking a lot. Actually I cannot determine 100% if the hoses are EPDM. The short 1/2" ones on the reservoir are, cuz they are heater hoses and heater hoses are EPDM. But the longer ones, 3/8 I think, I cannot tell for sure. Damn. If I have to remove ONE more time that stupid brake system, I ditch the remote reservoir and go back to OEM. I installed/removed the system 5 times, 5 times with the windshield on (I am alone) and lemme tell ya, it is a freakin PITAAAAA that makes you swear a lot. I won't do it 2 more times, so one more and I convert back to OEM. If I can't determine if my 3/8 lines are EPDM, I remove and convert to OEM.

[Canadian818]

That's what my googling confirmed that it needs to be EPDM. Now to source some.

[Frank818]

Took a decision. I'm freakin sick and tired of playing around with the remote reservoir, all the time lost on that thing is equal to probably 20 times the time of removing the dash and underdash alu panel if I had my OEM reservoir in place. Since I will change fluid about once per 10 years, that's enough. I'm removing all that setup and going back to OEM reservoir.


In the meantime, I installed the body!!
Ok, just half of the engine covers. I could see the clearances and it will fit everywhere without needing to support the cover higher. I will still do it to give more clearance. The best part is that the front section of the cover with the lip facing down fits in FRONT of the engine! That's the one I thought would hit on top of the cam cover, but not at all.

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I am also changing my throttle cable solution, I made a huge mistake. Stay tuned for a picture pretty soon.

[Frank818]

Attachment 27199

You can see the shape of the spindle, that's where the bubbles and dirt come up to the surface.

And here's the rear spindle (Forester 2000, that is) after a few hours in the bucket:

Attachment 27200


This is how the spindles, taken from a Forester 2000, looked before:

Attachment 27201Attachment 27202Attachment 27203Attachment 27204Attachment 27205

Hey Frank, you are really a stupid damn a**hole, Forester 2000-2001's spindles are NOT compatible with 2002-2007 WRX/NA. Forester 2002+ yes.
They will all bolt in fine! Hubs, back plates, FFR IFS bracket, bearings, seals, everything. Even the OEM WRX CVs will seem to work ok! But... they don't. They will interfere on the center hole which is 2.65" and WRX's is around 2.9".

I will have confirmation of that tomorrow morning and if I am right, be prepared to get your a** kicked by me.

[Canadian818]

Hey Frank, you are really a stupid damn a**hole, Forester 2000-2001's spindles are NOT compatible with 2002-2007 WRX/NA. Forester 2002+ yes.
They will all bolt in fine! Hubs, back plates, FFR IFS bracket, bearings, seals, everything. Even the OEM WRX CVs will seem to work ok! But... they don't. They will interfere on the center hole which is 2.65" and WRX's is around 2.9".

I will have confirmation of that tomorrow morning and if I am right, be prepared to get your a** kicked by me.

Watch out for this guy frank, he's mean!

[Mechie3]

It's funny, I started to read and thought "man...who is this guy?". Then I saw it was Frank. lol.

[AZPete]

I enjoy your thread Frank, especially "Alter-Frank". I need that guy in my garage to kick me into action to finish a few things and get legal!

[Frank818]

Watch out for this guy frank, he's mean!

It's funny, I started to read and thought "man...who is this guy?". Then I saw it was Frank. lol.

I enjoy your thread Frank, especially "Alter-Frank". I need that guy in my garage to kick me into action to finish a few things and get legal!

Yeah I have to do something to keep laughing, otherwise I would be so depressed.

In the end it turned out my other set (03 NA) has 2.6" center hole as well. I just don't understand. I will have to shop for some other spindles.
So if my other set doesn't have 3", it means I won't kick my bott? lolll

In the meantime, here's how angled the shafts will look at full compression:

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The good news is I have enough clearance between the small tube and the shaft, as per my fingers (I have 1.5 fingers thick of play or so).

The axles' angle is my biggest compromise on this kit. There is nothing I could do to make it better.

[Frank818]

FIXED!!!!!!!

I knew something was fishy when my mech measured the center hole when I called him yesterday. It just didn't make any sense.

Well I went to the shop, measured myself and tested the shaft in. Actually as soon as I grabbed the 03 NA spindle I knew it was right!

Look at the 2 center holes! Ok the spindles are not in the same orientation but you can clearly see the rusted on has a larger top center hole and it leaves less metal on the edges.



So I'm good, any Impreza, but the STI, from 02 to 07 will have correct spindles.

@AZPETE, according to post 712 it means I need to kick my bott! loll

The only thing is I have to grind the bottom where the long lateral bolt slides in, cuz the CV clip hits on the spindle (kind of odd, but it's an easy fix).



Now I need to buy more bearings, seals, reinstate my Bucket-o-Doom to derust the spindles, clean, paint, remove backplates, hubs, install on 03s, etc. At least I found it and it's fixed, just need to reinstall parts. Car won't run until Spring 16 for sure.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Frank,
How much axial movement does your inner CV joint Have?
I'm not familiar with that type.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Be really careful with the rear backing plates. As I'm sure you know, they locate the rear brake calipers and when pressing old bearings out and new bearings into the spindles, it's real tricky to do it without bending that backing plate. The plate has to be on before you press the hubs in. I bent my backing plates a bit doing it; not enough to be a major problem but until I replace those plates (which requires replacing the bearings as well), I'll never get full use out of a set of rear brake pads because the inside will wear out before the outside one. The spindle is just an awkward shape and there isn't a good way to make it sit flat in a press.

[svanlare]

Nice to get it figured out, even if it means a new trip to the BOD. Mine is still on the side of the house, in case I'm not done with part cleaning.