FFRSpec72 818R Build Seattle WA

[RetroRacing]

We did.....the bottom of the seat is touching the steel bars on the floor, and I only have 3/4" clear of the broomstick. Going to modify the floor to dump the seat down to the aluminum undertray just in case we have a taller driver.

[FFRSpec72]

Remember it was only to 5K rpm. That is just cruising in a race car. I would hold out until he really winds it up.

Tony will you be installing a Dry Sump soon?

I have ordered a dry sump package from element tuning not sure when I will install, I really really hated to do this.

[FFRSpec72]

Thanks again Tony for letting us borrow your alternator, we WILL return the favour some day!
We had to both remove the sliders and lower the seat by an inch to the floor, just to barely pass the broom stick test! Now, we are cutting and welding yet again to insure we have no further issues, but why did they not test this prior to building a RACECAR cage?

anyway, we installed caps in our frame ends, we at least that was ok. now we are concerned about shoulder belt angle with the seat so low.

please make it stop.

Glad to help out, thanks for meeting me on your way home. I hope to be out at the ridge for test & tune in Sept and the enduro in Oct if all goes well

[Sgt.Gator]

Thanks again Tony for letting us borrow your alternator, we WILL return the favour some day!
We had to both remove the sliders and lower the seat by an inch to the floor, just to barely pass the broom stick test! Now, we are cutting and welding yet again to insure we have no further issues, but why did they not test this prior to building a RACECAR cage?

anyway, we installed caps in our frame ends, we at least that was ok. now we are concerned about shoulder belt angle with the seat so low.

please make it stop.

It is strange since FFR designed the Challenge series car with a much higher roll bar.

SCCA has specific cage rules for open top cars. NASA doesn't seem to have the same rules, or any special rules, for open top and formula cars. In fact their front hoop requirement only says to match the front windshield A pillar angle and top. There seems to be no rule if you don't have a front windshield or any A pillars.

NASA doesn't even have the 2" rule between the top of the rear hoop and the top of the helmet on an open car (SCCA Rule). In fact I can't find a NASA rule that says the top of your helmet has to be below the top of the rear hoop at all. The only requirement is that the cage be padded where your helmet could touch it. I suppose technically your head could be ABOVE the roll bar in an open car! It appears that since the rule is written for closed cars that wasn't taken into consideration because your helmet can't be thru the roof.. Although you'd be crazy not to have at least 2" of roll bar above your helmet. . I'm sure if you roll an 818 it's not hard to imagine that with no roof the roll bar could easily dig a couple of inches into the ground taking your head/neck/spine with it.

Maybe somebody here who is a NASA tech inspector can clarify the rule. I checked the NASA driver forum and there were some posts about the same thing with no real answer from anyone with authority.

I did note that NASA Thunder Roadsters have full halo cages:
34683449-316-Race-Winning-Thunder-Roadster.jpg....39614565-816-2008-Thunder-Roadster-Gen-2-Hayabusa.jpg..37063861-174.jpg

Personally I'll build to exceed SCCA rules. They have a lot of experience with open top - formula cars and the bad things that can happen.

[FFRSpec72]

It is strange since FFR designed the Challenge series car with a much higher roll bar.

SCCA has specific cage rules for open top cars. NASA doesn't seem to have the same rules, or any special rules, for open top and formula cars. In fact their front hoop requirement only says to match the front windshield A pillar angle and top. There seems to be no rule if you don't have a front windshield or any A pillars.

NASA doesn't even have the 2" rule between the top of the rear hoop and the top of the helmet on an open car (SCCA Rule). In fact I can't find a NASA rule that says the top of your helmet has to be below the top of the rear hoop at all. The only requirement is that the cage be padded where your helmet could touch it. I suppose technically your head could be ABOVE the roll bar in an open car! It appears that since the rule is written for closed cars that wasn't taken into consideration because your helmet can't be thru the roof.. Although you'd be crazy not to have at least 2" of roll bar above your helmet. . I'm sure if you roll an 818 it's not hard to imagine that with no roof the roll bar could easily dig a couple of inches into the ground taking your head/neck/spine with it.

Maybe somebody here who is a NASA tech inspector can clarify the rule. I checked the NASA driver forum and there were some posts about the same thing with no real answer from anyone with authority.

I did note that NASA Thunder Roadsters have full halo cages:
34683449-316-Race-Winning-Thunder-Roadster.jpg....39614565-816-2008-Thunder-Roadster-Gen-2-Hayabusa.jpg..37063861-174.jpg

Personally I'll build to exceed SCCA rules. They have a lot of experience with open top - formula cars and the bad things that can happen.

The challenge car cage is about 1" higher than the 818R cage, somewhere in my build I compare the 2 cages. When I was getting my cage stamp ICSCC did comment on the fact that this cage was built to exceed SCCA rules the way the front and rear hoops were built. The only complaint was the ends and the one diagonal bar. I have just shy of 2" under the top of the roll cage, I can make 2" if I squish myself, I'm 6' tall

[FFRSpec72]

Remember it was only to 5K rpm. That is just cruising in a race car. I would hold out until he really winds it up.

Tony will you be installing a Dry Sump soon?

My challenge car is screaming at 5K and at 6K it is ready to blow

[C.Plavan]

My challenge car is screaming at 5K and at 6K it is ready to blow

You should hear 8k in a Porsche

[FFRSpec72]

Off to test & tune tomorrow at The Ridge Raceway, hopefully have most of my previous issues resolved.

[Hindsight]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Tony. Get some video!

[Rotorcraft]

Have fun!

[Sgt.Gator]

That's great news. Have fun!

[Mitch Wright]

Have fun, looking forward to your report

[longislandwrx]

good luck today

[FFRSpec72]

Care ran flawlessly through 5 sessions, on the 6th and last session the car crapped out, seems the alternator was not charging the battery, and died, had to be towed in. The was up to 125mph, water temps were at or below 180, oil temps were 190, IAT was 95, constant oil pressure, not flux in any of the turns. I had a small water leak, one of the hose clamps was not tight. Ran 22 lbs in front and 21 lbs in rear (R7 Tires). I did not push it past 7.5K since I did not have a dry sump yet. There is some rubbing of the front tires on one of the turns down hill.

The car needs a bump steer kit as it was twitchy on the straight away going 125, need to do this before I go out again.

[Hindsight]

Congrats Tony! That is awesome. Very glad you got basically a full day out of it without any issues.

Remind me what you are doing for oil cooling again? And do you have ducting in place for the radiator?

I had the exact same issue at high-speeds (about 115-120 for me was where I would lift). I'm hoping a front splitter will help that.

[FFRSpec72]

Congrats Tony! That is awesome. Very glad you got basically a full day out of it without any issues.

Remind me what you are doing for oil cooling again? And do you have ducting in place for the radiator?

I had the exact same issue at high-speeds (about 115-120 for me was where I would lift). I'm hoping a front splitter will help that.

No fans, but front tunnel for radiator and I have a Saeetrab cooler with fan. I had no lift as I'm running full aero

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Care ran flawlessly through 5 sessions, on the 6th and last session the car crapped out, seems the alternator was not charging the battery, and died, had to be towed in. The was up to 125mph, water temps were at or below 180, oil temps were 190, IAT was 95, constant oil pressure, not flux in any of the turns. I had a small water leak, one of the hose clamps was not tight. Ran 22 lbs in front and 21 lbs in rear (R7 Tires). I did not push it past 7.5K since I did not have a dry sump yet. There is some rubbing of the front tires on one of the turns down hill.

The car needs a bump steer kit as it was twitchy on the straight away going 125, need to do this before I go out again.

Hi Tony
Nice to hear that you had a good day without any major issues.
We've had a lot of the same issues.
"small water leak" we changed to all spring clamps.
"some rubbing" We raised ride height to 4.5"
"twitchy" We added Baer bump steer kit.
"dry sump" adding this week

On your alternator, do you have the wire installed the coms from the dash cluster?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

On your alternator, do you have the wire installed the coms from the dash cluster?
Bob

not sure as iWire did the harness

[Mitch Wright]

Congrats Tony.
Once you bump steer the car front and rear it will make a world of difference.

[Sgt.Gator]

That's great Tony!

[Hindsight]

Where did you mount the oil cooler? I have the same setup (setrab with fan) but was getting 240-250 oil temps.

[FFRSpec72]

Where did you mount the oil cooler? I have the same setup (setrab with fan) but was getting 240-250 oil temps.

Right behind the side scoop, was going to feed the oil cooler with air from the vent but used vent air for IC, but seems the oil cools fine as there is lots of air space around the cooler

[FFRSpec72]

Some take-aways

1. Bump steer kit
2. more camber
3. Shifter if for shi*
4. used mainly 3, 4, and 5th, and 4th is rally hard to find for some reason
5. need side mirrors, only had center mirror
6. need AFR gauge , maybe boost
7. raise ride height or make for more tire clearance
8. running 5 degrees on wing, may need more but need to fix bump steer to get more speed
9. exhaust seems OK as I was around 95 db

[RetroRacing]

WHOOOOHOOOO!!!! THat's great Tony, sorry we couldn't make it. We mad our own bump steer kit, but go with what you know will bolt right on. Wish you could use our shifter, it is way cool but takes allot of work to make and runs about $1k just in parts and cables (it is waaaayyy cool though). We decided to go stiffer in the front rather than raise front height, in fact, we are looking at going 15" wheels in front to lower the car to where it needs to be without giving up mechanical grip of a narrower tire. If you were pushing it in the corners, and not experiencing any oversteer, I would leave your wing where it is. 5 degrees for us bent the rear frame down and pushed the rear of the car down so much that we are basically popping a wheeley down the straight!

Soooo happy for you!

[Hindsight]

5 degrees for us bent the rear frame down and pushed the rear of the car down so much that we are basically popping a wheeley down the straight!

That's terrifying!!!

[FFRSpec72]

Here are 2 test and tune laps at The Ridge in Shelton WA

[Frank818]

That's pretty cool, image-wise. The only thing is we just hear the wind noise, I wanna hear the engine.
And plz, stop getting overtaken by BMWs.

[Hindsight]

Tony, the vids arent showing up for me. Odd that Frank seems to be able to see them but I can't.

[FFRSpec72]

That's pretty cool, image-wise. The only thing is we just hear the wind noise, I wanna hear the engine.
And plz, stop getting overtaken by BMWs.

Was only a test and tune and wanted to make sure nothing fell off or broke, I won't push it until I get the dry sump installed in a few weeks and get the bump steer fixed.

[RetroRacing]

We are installing a remote mic over to the muffler, just got it in the mail!

[Mechie3]

Are you running the stock plastic shifter?

[Mitch Wright]

Great news Tony, would love to see your data logs.
What shifter are you using?? Never mind, I see looking back in your build thread your using Wayne's Shifter set up, wonder if it needs a little tweaking. I haven't driven one but played with one in a display car, sitting still it felt pretty good.
The bump steer recommendation from FFR will get you close on the front, only took a few shim changes on each side to get it done. The rear is easy to adjust the bump steer and found with my first baseline set up I was in left field before I put the bumpsteer gauge on the car.
The last time Bob and Michael were here I did a few laps in their car, it was spooky. Getting the bumpsteer done was the first suggestion I made to them. I know that Bob has posted it is a new car since they have got the bumpsteer corrected and made some other alignment changes.

[Sgt.Gator]

Tony, how did you resolve the issues you were having at PIR that made it work fine at the The Ridge?

[Hindsight]

The bump steer recommendation from FFR will get you close on the front, only took a few shim changes on each side to get it done. The rear is easy to adjust the bump steer and found with my first baseline set up I was in left field before I put the bumpsteer gauge on the car.
The last time Bob and Michael were here I did a few laps in their car, it was spooky. Getting the bumpsteer done was the first suggestion I made to them. I know that Bob has posted it is a new car since they have got the bumpsteer corrected and made some other alignment changes.

That is very encouraging to hear. I hope that I can use the Baer kit with the tapered bolt that comes with it, since I am at "S" ride height, instead of having to drill out the spindle and using a bolt like they do on the R.

[tmoretta]

What is the Baer kit?

[Mitch Wright]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/b...ew/make/subaru
Baer is one of the bumpsteer kits available.

[RetroRacing]

We drilled the arm out to 5/8 and used a pinto kit with a few shims (washers) to get it perfect. Had to make the alum adapter though, so probably more expensive and labor intensive our way, but also probably stronger by a large magnitude.
bump steer done.JPG

[FFRSpec72]

Does anyone know the max spacer length on the Baer bump steer kit as it is 1-3/4 on the SPL bump steer kit ( http://www.splparts.com/products/spl...s-brz-wrx.html ) and when I measured the bump steer I would need a tad over 2"

[RetroRacing]

THat's the other reason we went with our pinto set up, it's 2" alone, with three washers it's perfect

[FFRSpec72]

We drilled the arm out to 5/8 and used a pinto kit with a few shims (washers) to get it perfect. Had to make the alum adapter though, so probably more expensive and labor intensive our way, but also probably stronger by a large magnitude.
bump steer done.JPG

Are you at the S or R ride height holes for frontend ?