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Thread: FFRSpec72 818R Build Seattle WA

  1. #881
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Jeff and Tony check out this MR2 Spyder that Tucker Sheppy has built to race against us in ICSCC ST/SPU:



    At this point he's running NA and 175 WHP, about 2200 lbs (including driver). I can't wait to see what kind of times he runs. It might inspire me to get on with building an NA 818R at 2,000 lbs and 175 WHP!

    50 more build images at: https://www.facebook.com/DDPerforman...type=3&theater
    Last edited by Sgt.Gator; 05-31-2017 at 06:41 PM.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  2. #882
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    Too much metal in the dry sump tank oil when I drained it, so out comes engine as I want to keep the block. So don't know if I will get a replacement EJ207v7 and drop it in and rebuild the current one or just rebuild the current one. F*&^ !
    Sorry too, to hear about engine problems. A new SB is a quick fix but I wouldn't run the pistons (they are fairly heavy) and you still are working with sloppy factory tolerances. You might luck out and you might not.
    I've built a few Subaru racing engines now. I've done a lot of research and have talked to a number of engine builders with good reputations. I work with Kenny at Larry's in Groton, CT. They have an international reputation for machining of and building Subaru race engines. Kenny has a lot of years of experience specifically with Subaru engines and does work for many New England performance shops. I've also worked with Micah McMahan, an engineer for Roush-Yates, who designed the Badger and Honey Badger engines for TIC. I have one of his destroker engines.
    I guess I am building up a methodology, or approach to building engines. This, based on everything that has come before and the fact that I have yet to spin a rod bearing nor have had an oil-related failure.
    Of most recent note is that I am building an engine for a DD play car and something that could hit the track in a pinch. I was going through several cases I have on hand. I had to decide on a path for the build. One case came to me from the west coast and was a worked-over case and had once been a race engine. This case may have been line-honed at some point. IDK... but I am not going to have to do anything funny with it, like shuffling bearings. It only needs boring while the other, which started life as a 2011 factory SB, could not be used the way it was! It came out of my car after about 65 race hours and looked like it could get by with a hone and new coated pistons. What surprised me was how bad the mains were out! I tried shuffling bearings to no avail. I had read that cases could be warped and mains out of line and that torque plates change readings on cylinders, but I had been skeptical. On a previous build all I had to do was have the crank polished a bit on a few journals to get to the clearances I wanted. On this upcoming 500 CHP build, with this "seasoned case", I will get it line-honed and pinned. All surfaced must be shaved for parallelism and flatness prior to the work on the mains and torque plates will be in place during the honing process.
    I guess the short of it is that, for a race engine, I would never trust the main journals to be OK and just slap in bearings. Nor would I shuffle standard and +.001 bearings. The time and energy to verify that all this is perfect and pairing the right pump, etc. is critical to longevity. The second main feeds two rod bearings and if you blow that clearance, or the the next two mains, then you can expect rod bearing problems under extreme conditions.
    I was contributing to this thread on NASIOC recently and thought of you and others who have had bad luck with their 818 engines. Perhaps this thread and others like it could be enlightening. You could start with my first post and go from there. BTW, Chris Bergeron of KillerB is a pretty sharp guy and is a frequent contributor.

  3. #883
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    Well, that answers my question before I even open the case. I have an option on a broken in closed deck racing short block, I think we will go that way for our spare.....
    Yes, our shop is line honing, he too said it's the only safe option for a race block.

  4. #884
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    That is a blown diffuser? Wonder what the under tray looks like.

  5. #885
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRacing View Post
    That is a blown diffuser? Wonder what the under tray looks like.
    See the Facebook link! The undercarriage is gorgeous. Looks like 3/8" Alumilite for the middle area. I would like to know the exact materials and thicknesses. I need to get around to putting one on my STi. I was going to go with 4 or 5mm.

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    I would agree that Chris from KB is a sharp guy and willing to share his ideas and opinions based on experiences KB has had developing EJ parts.

  7. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRacing View Post
    That is a blown diffuser?
    Yes, looks like a blown over the top diffuser. High energy exhaust flow increases the flow velocity through the diffuser and under the car, increasing downforce.
    F1 cars used them for years, banned in 2012. The scary thing about them is when you lift off the throttle the extra downforce goes away, likely when you need it most.
    Interesting article: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/diffuser_blown.html
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  8. #888
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielsDM View Post
    Yes, looks like a blown over the top diffuser. High energy exhaust flow increases the flow velocity through the diffuser and under the car, increasing downforce.
    F1 cars used them for years, banned in 2012. The scary thing about them is when you lift off the throttle the extra downforce goes away, likely when you need it most.
    Interesting article: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/diffuser_blown.html

    It's neat how F1 engineers used some tricky engine mapping to prevent this from happening, keeping exhaust flow up on throttle lift.
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  9. #889
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    I think they also mentioned flow through. I think that's what it's called. If you have a racing ECM then you can program it to keep the turbo spooling on lifts/braking and you get those neat big flames and bangs!

  10. #890
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    I did the engine swap over the weekend with a friends help, engine went in fine with the headers on, but life would be so much easier if the diagonal 1" bars in the engine bay were either heim joins to removable (bolt in). I have not started the engine yet as I still have to double check everything again to make sure everything is hooked up correctly. All the hoses and coolers were flushed to make sure no metal was in lines, etc.

    IMG_1855.jpg DAC9B529-1AE4-45AC-897E-D482B1826CA5.jpg
    Tony Nadalin
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  11. #891
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    Congrats Tony, fingers crossed.

  12. #892
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    Boy I know that new start on a re-built engine feeling!

    I found that pouring an offering of Sake over the engine helps appease the spirits inhabiting Subarus....



    One for you and one for the spirits.

    Good Luck Tony!
    Last edited by Sgt.Gator; 06-12-2017 at 03:51 PM.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  13. #893
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    Good luck!!!

  14. #894
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    Hope that pool of brown liquid on the floor was not critical......
    I'm not racing my 818, but I have my fingers crossed about the engine.
    Too many on here having trouble..... mainly racing applications.
    Good luck Tony.
    Harley
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  15. #895
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    Tony I really hope you bring it to Spokane next weekend!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  16. #896
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Your engine... I did not see sandwich plate or provisions for your external oil cooler. You are going back with it, aren't you?

  17. #897
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    Your engine... I did not see sandwich plate or provisions for your external oil cooler. You are going back with it, aren't you?
    Yes it is there, so sandwich plate to remote oil filter to oil cooler and back, I have left the stock oil cooler/heater on also.
    Tony Nadalin
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  18. #898
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    Tony are you bringing the 818R to Spokane this weekend? I'll be there racing Friday and Saturday, skipping the races on Sunday.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  19. #899
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    Tony are you bringing the 818R to Spokane this weekend? I'll be there racing Friday and Saturday, skipping the races on Sunday.
    Unfortunately no, but it will be at the Rose Cup Races in Portland 2 weeks later as I still have a few things to do ...
    Tony Nadalin
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  20. #900
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Car is back running again, off to the tuner next week

    http://vid521.photobucket.com/albums...e/IMG_1981.mp4
    Last edited by FFRSpec72; 06-23-2017 at 03:00 PM.
    Tony Nadalin
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    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
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  21. #901
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  22. #902
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    works fine for me

  23. #903
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    I'm registered for the Rose Cup in RC2 with my STI. Hope you'll make it!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
    Owner: Colonel Red Racing
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  24. #904
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    I'm registered for the Rose Cup in RC2 with my STI. Hope you'll make it!
    We are signed up in RC2 I believe also as Tom Ryon put in the entry for the 818R, we will run 1/2 day test and tune on Thursday to see if it will make the race.
    Tony Nadalin
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  25. #905
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Car back from tuners with a very conservative rich tune ... Heading down to the track for test and tune tomorrow

    C430CC09-8E85-4F6E-98A7-264E52AC7D9D.jpg 298055F7-042F-4DEA-93FC-287875E2B7F3.jpg
    Tony Nadalin
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  26. #906
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    Good luck Tony.
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  27. #907
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    Nice Tony. That's almost exactly the same numbers I make. Have a great time and please post some pics and video!

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    Good Luck!!! Great numbers!

  29. #909
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    We broke the front splitter mount today, too much down force, we are also getting an issue of the rear stepping out when shifting, not sure what this is yet
    Tony Nadalin
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  30. #910
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    Sorry to hear about the splitter Tony. Where did it break? I supported the entire rear span of my splitter with an aluminum angle bracket. I can post pics if it would help give you some ideas.

    RE the rear stepping out, is it when you are lifting or when you are applying power? Remind me again if you have an LSD in your trans?

  31. #911
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Sorry to hear about the splitter Tony. Where did it break? I supported the entire rear span of my splitter with an aluminum angle bracket. I can post pics if it would help give you some ideas.

    RE the rear stepping out, is it when you are lifting or when you are applying power? Remind me again if you have an LSD in your trans?
    So the rear had toe out, gave it a 1/8 toe in an it's a different car. The oil tem is 210, water temp 185, all seems to be good now, had qualifying today and race tomorrow and Sunday
    Tony Nadalin
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    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
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  32. #912
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    Awesome! I am running a lot more toe-in in the rear than that, and I think Wayne is too, so you might experiment with it. Are you confident you have no bump-out in the rear? That will really cause instability and sketchy handling.

    Those temps are very nice!! Good luck this weekend. Video and pics!!!!

  33. #913
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Awesome! I am running a lot more toe-in in the rear than that, and I think Wayne is too, so you might experiment with it. Are you confident you have no bump-out in the rear? That will really cause instability and sketchy handling.

    Those temps are very nice!! Good luck this weekend. Video and pics!!!!
    Bad day, got flagged for no active transponder and came into hot pits and just as Tom (Tom Ryon was driving as I had my other car there) coming in, brakes failed so good thing Tom went out w/o a transponder on. Fixed brakes and then had a electrical fire on board, so I need to talk to iWire and see what is happening . So car I dead for this weekend
    Last edited by FFRSpec72; 07-09-2017 at 08:43 PM.
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  34. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFRSpec72 View Post
    Bad day, got flagged for no active transponder and came into hot pits and just as I was coming in, brakes failed so good thing I went out w/o a transponder on. Fixed brakes and then had a electrical fire on board, so I need to talk to iWire and see what is happening . So car I dead for this weekend
    Tony, sorry to hear about your bad day.
    Actually a good day, brakes and fire could have ended a lot worse.
    Tell us some more details so others won't have the same thing happen.
    Bob
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  35. #915
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    Ouch sorry Tony. What caused the brake failure? Hope the fire damage was very minor.

  36. #916
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    I had my STI in the same race. The 818R and my STI were running almost identical lap times and we were looking forward to 3 great races (two on Saturday and the Feature Rose Cup Race on Sunday). It was just not to be. Tony mentioned his brake failure which ya'll are right, thank the Lord it happened as his car was coasting into the hot pits to install the transponder. 1 minute sooner and it could have been tragic. Then I did something to my engine which has yet to be determined what actually failed, but it involved enough smoke to put a WWII destroyer trying to screen the US fleet to shame.

    Then I'm sitting in the stands watching "our" race when the 818R came in with what looked like a radiator leak or blown coolant hose, but was actually having an electrical fire!

    All in all a bad day for the only two Subaru powered cars out of 145 entrants. I took a little solace in knowing I had the only 4 door car and the one of three 4 cylinder cars in the actual Rose Cup race. By Saturday afternoon there was only one 4 cyl car left to race on Sunday.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  37. #917
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    Ouch, sorry to hear you had issues too

  38. #918
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    So a recap

    1. We were running a 265hp tune on engine, temps were 210-215 oil and 180-190 water temps so all good there, I will have to download data to get IAT and other values.
    2. Had issues with stability, we had to adjust rear toe to get the car from jumping around under shifting/braking
    3. Front splitter had to have center support to keep it from being sucked to ground
    4. So the brake issue was that the brake clevis backed out of the U shaped bracket and thus fell out, this could have been very serious.
    5. Electrical issue, this was a wire harness issue, seems the hot wire from alternator to ing switch/kill switch and hot wire to second kill switch were all burned. Before I say more I need to talk to iWire and find out some more things, this could have also been much worse
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

  39. #919
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    WOW, you are a lucky guy! both issues could have been much worse, hope you had at least some time on track to sort through things. keep us informed.

  40. #920
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRacing View Post
    WOW, you are a lucky guy! both issues could have been much worse, hope you had at least some time on track to sort through things. keep us informed.
    yes we got enough time in to say the car with the 265 hp tune will be in low 1:20s at PIR, we have to play with tire pressure as we are running 28 in rear and 26 in front and may take those up a pound or 2 as we were getting front end hop in turn 4/5 and Tom made the mistake of taking pressure out because of track was slippery,

    we were running a max of 16psi on the boost and rev limiter is set to 8K
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

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