MRG MotorSports 818S Build

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Andrew used to work at Brammo. Electric motorcycles are so cool! I enjoyed riding with him on the Empulse. The sound of revving the electric motor is something I'll never forget, and the looks we would get from Harley riders were priceless!

Tamra, Is there anything you don't ride or drive.
From one pony to 500 ponies.
Bob

[Frank818]

Back to my real job that pays for my 818 hobby.
Black or Blue?

Attachment 42315

Attachment 42316

Blue. You can ship it to me right now.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Subarugears is making a shorten tail housing fro our MT5 transmission.
This will give you an extra 4 or 5 inches behind the transmission.
Pricing has not been announced yet.

To late fore me as my side shifter is working great.


https://youtu.be/bYi_lvrWQCQ

Bob

[Mechie3]

That's not specific for the 818 right, but for Vanagon conversions? They run the trans backwards and use a solid shift linkage. For our application they machined off the mounting points for the cables/pivots/etc. Very cool though. I can't compete with 5 axis.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

That's not specific for the 818 right, but for Vanagon conversions? They run the trans backwards and use a solid shift linkage. For our application they machined off the mounting points for the cables/pivots/etc. Very cool though. I can't compete with 5 axis.

This is not specific for an 818.
Looks like they added some feet on the side for mounting.
You can cut the shaft down to your desired length.

10405420_965563293495665_8484676088941374484_n.jpg

11391472_965563330162328_6263385116079181682_n.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Mike and I have been down in South Carolina for family vacation. So no progress on the car for the last 2 weeks.
We got home tonight to find some goodies that arrived.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Very nice. Where are you going to plumb the accusump?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Very nice. Where are you going to plumb the accusump?

The short answer: To one of the oil galley plugs. I just don't know which one.
Someone posted this picture.
OilGalley.jpg

I am not going to use a oil filter sandwich plate as I plan on using a (air/coolant/oil) type oil cooler.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Question about doors and side sails.
Can you take off the side sails without removing the doors?
What is the distance you should the striker from the side of the car?
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

I don't think so...

I found that by putting the strikers as far towards the center of the car you could cut only the slot for it in the door. As it moves outward you lose clearance and you have to cut out an entire rectangle. It's basic geometry as your door goes past parallel there is increased space. The striker is thicker than a paint stick. Details are in my thread, Aloha and I figured it out last fall.

[Mechie3]

I currently have no body panels on except doors.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thank Guys
Michael and I are having trouble deciding what is more important.
Working on performance improvements or just getting street legal.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

Bob, I'm in the same dilemma, do I get it ready to debug thru autocross or just do it all and get it on the street... no right answer. I am also currently at the bare frame level

Awesome to work with the son tho isn't it! Ian and I are back to solar panel mounts this AM, then a seat mod for autocross on DD2 #2 for this weekend.

[Frank818]

I don't think so...

I found that by putting the strikers as far towards the center of the car you could cut only the slot for it in the door. As it moves outward you lose clearance and you have to cut out an entire rectangle. It's basic geometry as your door goes past parallel there is increased space. The striker is thicker than a paint stick. Details are in my thread, Aloha and I figured it out last fall.

I will check, but I believe you have pictures of that on your thread?
I think you pictured every single square inch of the body.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is a picture of my latest version of the side shifter.
The shifting rod now goes in where the neutral sensor was.
We have done 3 autocross and it's working great.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is the plumbing on my AWIC filler tank. No bleeding necessary.
Fill it,
Run it for 1 minute,
fill to 1/2 way point.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

818 got new shoes.
I copied Chad on wheels and tire size. Thanks Chad

P1050471s.jpg

P1050475s.jpg

P1050487s.jpg

P1050492s.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a picture of my Frunk area

P1050485s.jpg

[Mechie3]

Is your bell crank 1/4" thick? No issues with oil leaking out the side?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Is your bell crank 1/4" thick? No issues with oil leaking out the side?

Hi Craig,
My bell crank is 1/4" alum.
The way the shift shaft is lubricated on the original transmission is by a ~3/8 hole on the inside of the transmission.
The center diff would sling oil into this hole. Since we don't have a center diff. I just greased the bearings.
The grease is picking up some dirt, so I should try and figure on some kind of boot.

The ECU does need the neutral switch for AVCS control. I added a clutch switch to perform this function.
Works perfect.

In the future, I may cut down the housing similar to what you did.
Bob

[Tamra]

Looking good! The wheels look very nice.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looking good! The wheels look very nice.

Thanks Tamra,
I just hope we don't twist off the axles the way we have been launching with the little tires.
I was on vacation for 2 weeks, you should be ahead of me.
I'm going with the 350f/600r springs this weekend. I'll let you know how it works out.
What car are you taking to Toledo?
Bob

[Tamra]

Thanks Tamra,
I just hope we don't twist off the axles the way we have been launching with the little tires.
I was on vacation for 2 weeks, you should be ahead of me.
I'm going with the 350f/600r springs this weekend. I'll let you know how it works out.
What car are you taking to Toledo?
Bob

I'm driving an STR prep Miata in L3 (the same one I won the Devens Tour with in STRL). Andrew's driving an S2000 CR in AS.

I hope the springs work out! I'm not sure if we are much ahead of you. We had to take a week to work on the van (fix our new water pump that was leaking), and we've had 2 day autocrosses every weekend in June. I'm surprised we've made as much progress on the 818 as we have!

We are going to be running Hoosiers on our 818 for autocross, so I'm sure we'll be the bigger guinea pigs for axle testing. I imagine you'll be fine with street tires - just try to avoid getting wheel hop (spin the tires up or not at all - no middle ground).

Good luck at autocross this weekend!

[508wrx]

This is the plumbing on my AWIC filler tank. No bleeding necessary.
Fill it,
Run it for 1 minute,
fill to 1/2 way point.

What size did you tap the for the fitting on the intercooler? I like this idea.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What size did you tap the for the fitting on the intercooler? I like this idea.

they are 1/8" NPT using this fitting.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#5346k15/=xrk0yh

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This week we spent a lot of time changing to rod end lateral links.
It was not a quick bolt in upgrade. Pretty difficult modification. It was difficult to drill out inner rod end holes.

Today we went to an autocross to try our new tires. This was a bad idea without test driving the car first.
Our big front tires (235/40-17) were rubbing the fenders on turn-in. We decide to call it a day and not risk damage.
This week we will be messing with front tire/suspension to eliminate this problem.

Below is a picture I took that shows my rear suspension geometry.
Bob

[Flamshackle]

This is a picture of my latest version of the side shifter.
The shifting rod now goes in where the neutral sensor was.
We have done 3 autocross and it's working great.
Bob

Have you got any more information or pics of your side shift? I want to go this route also and would appreciate any tips.

Your leverage looks short on the twist shift motion. How does it feel?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Have you got any more information or pics of your side shift? I want to go this route also and would appreciate any tips. Your leverage looks short on the twist shift motion. How does it feel?

I don't have any more pictures at this time.
I did this video on my first design.
https://youtu.be/NLPjJnvYMAM
The big change was moving the rod entering the transmission.
My first design, I had trouble sealing the transmission.
I moved the neutral switch to an extra clutch switch.
The fell is great. I can feel it click into gear with my hand.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yesterday, Michael and I work on our shocks.
We plan on using the 818 for street, autocross and track days.
We decided on the street ride height to eliminate tire rub..

Our design goals were:
1. race performance suspension with less body roll. (we copied Chad's spring Rates)
2. No lose of spring contact a full extension. (added tender springs to the rears)
3. Equal distance in the bump and rebound direction. (Extended top spring mount by 1")
4. Wanted bump stop to come into play before rubbing. ( added spacer to shock rod)

Below are some pictures.
Bob And Mike

P1050539s.jpg

2d shock cad.jpg

3d shock cad.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Working on the doors today,
Does anyone know the size of the screws that mounts the latch mechanism to the door frame?
Thanks
Bob

[Tamra]

Working on the doors today,
Does anyone know the size of the screws that mounts the latch mechanism to the door frame?
Thanks
Bob

These ones?




I like the idea of the tender springs in the rear! I don't care for your addition of a spacer with the bump stop. Hopefully with your stiffer spring rate, you won't hit the bump stop and it won't be an issue, but if you do, the sudden infinite spring rate from the spacer could cause severe handling issues at the limit. Be careful.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

These ones?
I like the idea of the tender springs in the rear! I don't care for your addition of a spacer with the bump stop. Hopefully with your stiffer spring rate, you won't hit the bump stop and it won't be an issue, but if you do, the sudden infinite spring rate from the spacer could cause severe handling issues at the limit. Be careful.

Thanks Tamra,
A note on the latch mechanism. I had to remove about an 1/8" from the latch mechanism to make it sit flush in the door frame.

I don't expect the spacer to come in to play with the harder springs.
The Bump stops and spacers will prevent me from killing my fenders. The bump stops do prevent me from going to infinite spring rate. See chart below. I believe from my testing the 70 34 54 000 0 is the curve that best matches our bump stops. It is pretty soft for the first inch of travel.
Bob

bumpgralarge.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

In the coil-over shock locking ring there is a set screw to lock it in place.
I am worried that this will bugger up the thread on the sleeve.
Does everyone tighten the set screw?
Does it hurt the threaded sleeve?
Bob

[C.Plavan]

In the coil-over shock locking ring there is a set screw to lock it in place.
I am worried that this will bugger up the thread on the sleeve.
Does everyone tighten the set screw?
Does it hurt the threaded sleeve?
Bob

You have to tighten down the set screw. Ask me how I know..... Mine worked their way out of where I set them- by a lot. Don't overly tighten it as it can strip. It will make a dimple on the sleeve, but won't bugger it up that bad.

Then buy this. It really helps when you need to mess with the coil-overs and you just can't hang on to the sleeve anymore to crank down with the coil over wrench. My sleeves started spinning when using the coil over wrench, these rubber strap wrenches solved the problem.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00006...r+strap+wrench

[Bob_n_Cincy]

First, Thanks Chad for the locking ring set screw tip.

My engineering mind is turning some gears.

I have a basic suspension set up question.
If your CG, RC, spring rates, and suspension point caused 2 degrees of body roll at 1.5 G.
2 Degrees of body roll is the outside of the car down an inch and the inside up an inch.
I would think best camber gain setting is.
Zero at base ride height.
-2 degrees at 1" of bump.
+2 degrees at 1" of rebound.
This would keep all four tires flat on the ground at during a corner.
Does this make sense?
Bob

[Tamra]

I'm not an engineer, but I would think the best thing you could do would be to get a tire probe and check temps, and then adjust the camber as required to get fairly even temps across the tires.

I would think 0 camber at base ride height would NOT be a good idea. We have -2 front and -3 rear (with different springs than you though, so yours could be different) and we got fairly even temps all the way across our Hoosiers after ~60 second autocross runs.

[RM1SepEx]

Read Carroll Smith's books and perhaps Herb Adams books on suspension design. Tamra is correct in that the true test is even tire heating however it also assume equal loading of the course and that is course design dependent. Different tire "like" different setups and Hoosier's in particular are very camber sensitive.

It takes a ton of development to get it just right and a road course and an autocross a very different "fast" setup

http://www.amazon.com/Chassis-Engine...rds=herb+adams

http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Win-scien...=carroll+smith

http://www.amazon.com/Prepare-Win-Bo...=carroll+smith

http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Win-C...=carroll+smith

Bob, when Ian (now 23 and right now in a face to face interview in Boston for his first BioMed Eng job) and I were autocrossing the kart we made it a problem solving exercise using the available ref materials. I suggest you do the same, your son seems very engaged! It really helped when we did the electric reverse trike and we just installed my 31 solar panels working together. Makes for an excellent bonding experience.

[Frank818]

You have to tighten down the set screw. Ask me how I know.....

With some blue loctite?

[C.Plavan]

With some blue loctite?

No loctite.... Just remember to tighten them down unlike me the first time.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

You have to tighten down the set screw. Ask me how I know..... Mine worked their way out of where I set them- by a lot. Don't overly tighten it as it can strip. It will make a dimple on the sleeve, but won't bugger it up that bad.

I set my corner weights tonight, then tighten the set screws, 2 were missing as I did not have them tighten before.
I stole 2 from my other car.
Here is a McMaster Carr part number.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#set-screws/=ya9eb4
Bob