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Thread: MRG MotorSports 818S Build

  1. #161
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I will be opening up the side vents fully and then some. Maybe something like this:
    Attachment 32913

    Also going to a AWIC. I have not decided on location of heat exchanger.
    Bob
    your side vents will be like my right side vent for my IC... I'm hoping to keep with my CF theme now that I got a CF street spoiler too
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  2. #162
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I will be opening up the side vents fully and then some. Maybe something like this:
    Attachment 32913
    That is not much more than FFR. Not easy to see on picture but it looks very similar.

    Interesting installation of the rad, I personally won't do it that way as air would be too hot moving through the rad, knowing my engine and turbo. I do not know for the Subaru engine/turbo combo, though. Can't wait to see results of this out-of-the-(blue)-box setup.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  3. #163
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Hey Metalmaker,
    I do plan on fully insulating the exhaust the best I can.

    I think you are talking about heat soaking the main radiator. I plan on bringing as much air as possible into the engine compartment. Enlarged side vents and possibly opening up the side pods right behind the front wheels.

    Metal, you are the main reason I went this direction. An engine under high load forms little bubbles, like the bottom of a pot about to boil. These bubbles all collect together some where and form an air lock in the cooling system. I think this is what happened to your engine. Possible in the top of your heads or in the front radiator. Were your blown head gaskets at the top of the engine?

    As far as heat soaking the IC. I will be going to AWIC.
    Thinking outside the box has been my career. I have fallen on my face many times. Note to self: Learn from my mistakes.

    Bob

    Interesting observation, I am thinking my motor may have had this issue and high iats which caused piston ringlands to crack. I like your idea, just not so sure how the heat will effect this setup. I went with the hard coolant line kit by Mike Everson. This should help with the bubble build up that the corrugated lines create. One cracked low and one higher. I also had a coolant leak which could have just shortened coolant and sucked in air through overflow
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 08-28-2014 at 09:24 PM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  4. #164
    Senior Member D Clary's Avatar
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    The cooling system should not form bubbles, that is what the thermostat and pressure cap prevent. The thermostat. is a restriction in the flow of coolant effectively raising the pressure in the block. the pressure cap keeps pressure on the entire system. if the system is full there will be no bubbles. Air can become trapped in the corrugated tubing but should bleed out fairly quickly.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Clary View Post
    The cooling system should not form bubbles, that is what the thermostat and pressure cap prevent. The thermostat. is a restriction in the flow of coolant effectively raising the pressure in the block. the pressure cap keeps pressure on the entire system. if the system is full there will be no bubbles. Air can become trapped in the corrugated tubing but should bleed out fairly quickly.
    Hi D Clary,
    If I recall correctly, water/glycol at 16 psi still boils and forms EDIT: STEAM bubbles at about 250F.
    I do agree that it is very important to get all the air out of the system.
    Even with no air in the system at start, it is still possible to boil over if you cooling isn't greater than the heat load. EDIT: What come out of the overflow is not air. It is just water in it's heated state (steam)
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-28-2014 at 09:51 PM.

  6. #166
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Nice build Bob, really like the wiring on the ECU panel, slick. I had a similar plan but not as compact as that! I want to use cannon plugs for bulkhead connections. The radiator plan should work, I had a friend that did something similar with a Fiero kit build and it cooled fine. This Subaru Rally car has it in the boot and all IC up front...

    http://bbs.scoobynet.com/projects-40...car-build.html

    Frank

  7. #167
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Hi D Clary,
    If I recall correctly, water/glycol at 16 psi still boils and forms EDIT: STEAM bubbles at about 250F.
    I do agree that it is very important to get all the air out of the system.
    Even with no air in the system at start, it is still possible to boil over if you cooling isn't greater than the heat load. EDIT: What come out of the overflow is not air. It is just water in it's heated state (steam)

    Bob
    Use Blue Honda coolant, does not form bubbles until the car would be cremated.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  8. #168
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Bob here is that Fiero kit rear rad I was talking about.

    http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/sh...tyle=printable

    He ducted the side vents into the radiator and also had ECU fan control...

    Frank

  9. #169
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianYank View Post
    Bob here is that Fiero kit rear rad I was talking about.

    http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/sh...tyle=printable

    He ducted the side vents into the radiator and also had ECU fan control...

    Frank
    Hey Frank, thanks for sharing.
    Wow, That corvette v8 was really stuffed in there.
    I'm not going to duct air to the radiator. I just going to bring a lot of air into the whole engine compartment and exhaust it all out through the radiator. I will use the 2 donor fans to push out the air.
    Bob
    Bob

  10. #170
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    This picture reminds me of my son.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #171
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Under Dash wiring

    I usually don't like to post pictures until I have something done.
    I just spent 7 hours wiring the underside of my dash. I'm about 70% done, before I clean up the wiring with split loom.
    Included under the dash:
    Battery disconnect switch
    Main fuse box, I deleted the small fuse box.
    Fuel Pump controller,
    starter interlock relay.
    Fuel pump relay
    Gauge cluster.
    Switch panel for Ignition, start, horn, headlights and fan override,
    I deleted all steering column mounted controls.
    It looks like a mess now, but it should clean up nicely.
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #172
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    You should see how mine looks right now! Your's is neat as a pin compared to mine (minimal diet)
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  13. #173
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    You should see how mine looks right now! Your's is neat as a pin compared to mine (minimal diet)
    I did a full diet.
    every unneeded wire is gone.
    Every needed wire is shortened or extend as necessary.
    We will find out in a couple of day if it still runs.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-13-2014 at 10:32 PM.

  14. #174
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Bob, I really like the color. That blue is electric for sure!

    Frank

  15. #175
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Got to look at the kit today! "Triathletedave" invited me over to see his 818s build and nope I'm not fitting in a stock configuration... So my tank is going in the front like yours. Dave also pointed out many fitment issues with the radiator and piping up front so I think your on target with the radiator in the rear as well.

    After seeing Dave's I think I would have enough room to lay the radiator on its side over the transmission and duct some air from the lid deck. I'm running NA so I shouldn't have any fitment issues.

    Frank
    The most important things in the world have been accomplished by people who don't give up and have just kept on trying...

  16. #176
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianYank View Post
    Got to look at the kit today! "Triathletedave" invited me over to see his 818s build and nope I'm not fitting in a stock configuration... So my tank is going in the front like yours. Dave also pointed out many fitment issues with the radiator and piping up front so I think your on target with the radiator in the rear as well.

    After seeing Dave's I think I would have enough room to lay the radiator on its side over the transmission and duct some air from the lid deck. I'm running NA so I shouldn't have any fitment issues.

    Frank

    Hi Frank
    I am going to open up the side vents to about double the size of the 818 standard.
    Bob

  17. #177
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I am going to open up the side vents to about double the size of the 818 standard.
    Hey Bob, how will do you it? Will you enlarge the exterior part of it or will you just cut a little forward on the inner side of the vent? Or other means... I also want bigger vents, so I am curious at your solution.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #178
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Frank, it is easy to open them up all the way to the edge of the opening, don't use that aluminum "trim" ring, you will double the open area...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  19. #179
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Hey Bob, how will do you it? Will you enlarge the exterior part of it or will you just cut a little forward on the inner side of the vent? Or other means... I also want bigger vents, so I am curious at your solution.
    Hi Frank,
    Not only am I going to eliminate the trim ring, I am going to add a couple of cuts and push the vent open further. See picture.
    Kind of like the new vents for the R only backwards.
    BobP1040661cut.jpg

  20. #180
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Tnx Dan.

    Bob you mean you going to stretch inwards the section between your 2 red lines? I thought of that. And fill the voids with fiberglass. Well I can't wait to see your results, very interested.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #181
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I cut out 2/3 of that...

    P1120117.JPG

    once I have an external "scoop" it should capture a ton of air for my IC
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  22. #182
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I cut out 2/3 of that...

    P1120117.JPG
    True, I forgot about that. I would need louvers to cover that hole, though. I wouldn't want to leave it wide open like that.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  23. #183
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Hi Frank,
    Not only am I going to eliminate the trim ring, I am going to add a couple of cuts and push the vent open further. See picture.
    Kind of like the new vents for the R only backwards.
    BobP1040661cut.jpg

    Bob, something like this?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #184
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    Bob, something like this?
    Yes, something like the Audi, but I wasn't going to go forward of the door seam.
    Bob

  25. #185
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Minor Milestone tonight.

    My car went through a major wire dissection.
    Every signal wire was spliced to proper length.
    Under dash fuse box was eliminated from the system.
    Remove EVERY unnecessary wire.
    Converted from Auto to manual transmission.
    P1050101s.jpg ggt.jpg

    My method for first power up is to put a 3 ohm resistor in the main battery lead. (limits current to 4 amps if there is a short)
    All was good except on connector that was not plugged in all the way.
    Best of all ZERO ECU FAULT CODES.
    Planning on first start tomorrow.

    Do you think they would let me SCCA autocross in go kart mode Sunday?
    Bob

  26. #186
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Can one of you Subaru guys out there tell me about my engine.
    My donor was a 2004 FXT automatic. AVCS on intake valves and DBW. Some have told me the engine has STI internal components.
    What exactly does this mean?
    If I put a bigger turbo and IC with a tune. Will I be at 300hp/300ft-lbs and good to go?
    Bob

  27. #187
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Bob, just review the AMod class rules, meet them, good to go. You will need a harness for example...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  28. #188
    Moonlight Performance
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    Nice, very clean looking wiring on that panel! Can you recommend a good de-pinning tool? I have one for VWs but I'm guessing it won't work on Subie connectors.

  29. #189
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Nice, very clean looking wiring on that panel! Can you recommend a good de-pinning tool? I have one for VWs but I'm guessing it won't work on Subie connectors.
    For the ecu connector. I tried a GM tool and ground it down very small. But still didn't work. I just spliced, did not remove any pins.
    Bob

  30. #190
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Bob and Mike's first start Video

    Bob and Mikes first start Video.
    Plan to be go karting this week.



    Michael and I were surprised at how quiet it was without a muffler.
    How much is the CAT quieting it down. Will it be a lot louder without a cat?
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-20-2014 at 11:30 PM.

  31. #191
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    The car Idled today for 45 minutes before the fans kicked on. Is this normal?
    Bob

  32. #192
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    What were the temps?
    818S - #67 (SOLD IT!)
    Delivered: 18 November 2013
    Go Karted: 29 December 2013
    Titled/Registered: 28 March 2014
    Finished: NEVER!
    341 hp @ 4844 RPM / 389 tq @ 3717 RPM

  33. #193
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeS13 View Post
    What were the temps?
    In about 10 min the engine block got to 185F and the exhaust manifold 335F turbo 350F.
    At start the radiator was at 92. The top starting getting hot to 180 in about 15 minutes.
    The bottom of the radiator took about 40 minutes to get to about 170F.
    At 45 minutes the fans came on low and ran to about 5 minutes. At this point the bottom of the radiator dropped to 130F.
    The more I think about it, this all sounds good.

    Other info.
    Fuel system all good. No leaks. Put 2 gallon in tank and gauge just a hair over empty.
    Cooling system, all good. It sucked in about 8oz after engine cooled off.
    Electrical system, no shorts or opens found yet. headlight and tail lights not wired yet.
    ECU had 4 fault codes.
    1. no serial communication with missing automatic transmission.
    2. Rear O2 sensor not heating. it was not mounted yet.
    3. & 4. evap system problems. We don't have an evap system.
    So all codes were explainable.
    All dash gauges seem to work ok.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-22-2014 at 10:31 AM.

  34. #194
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    Congrats on the start! Very satisfying with the harness diet! However I am bit jealous as I don't have my engine installed yet.

  35. #195
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC7492 View Post
    Congrats on the start! Very satisfying with the harness diet! However I am bit jealous as I don't have my engine installed yet.
    Thanks
    I figure I made about 400-500 wire cuts and 200-250 splices.
    No mistakes found yet.
    As Hannibal from the A Team always said: "I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER"
    Bob

  36. #196
    Senior Member matteo92065's Avatar
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    very nice. I like the out-of-box thinking on the cooling system.

  37. #197
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Thanks
    I figure I made about 400-500 wire cuts and 200-250 splices.
    No mistakes found yet.
    As Hannibal from the A Team always said: "I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER"
    Bob
    I've been debating many of those cuts vs covering it with wire loom and dropping them into the tunnel...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  38. #198
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I've been debating many of those cuts vs covering it with wire loom and dropping them into the tunnel...
    Most of my cuts were in this panel.
    ggt.jpg
    Then I made all the wire that go to the front about 10 ft long.
    Once I had all the components where I wanted them, I started cutting and splicing again.
    Bob

  39. #199
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Mounted my G-tuned Shifter tonight.

    Mounted my G-tuned Shifter tonight.
    I know it doesn't have the bling of a the k-tuned shifter. Our goal is to autocross next week.
    The bling is on the back burner.
    No Duct Tape, but a lot of 200 mph zip ties.
    Bob

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-24-2014 at 09:21 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  40. #200
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Bob how does that seat feel with the cross brace against your left leg? I would think I would remove it. Is it bothersome? I plan on Kirkeys as well...

    Frank
    The most important things in the world have been accomplished by people who don't give up and have just kept on trying...

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