818Rasmus E Modified

[Hindsight]

You are right, I had it backwards!

[Rasmus]

Removed the front sway bar mounts. Probably had to grind off an extra 20-30 grams of weld and plate that where still on the frame after cutting. So we'll call it 900 grams removed.


Blew a hole through the frame with the plasma cutter doing it. Had to weld it up and then grind that down.


Turned out nice.

[nuisance]

Looks much better without those brackets!

Independent suspension!

[Santiago]

Independent indeed!!

[Scargo]

Since your dieting...
I was moving my body panels around yesterday and thought, "holy sh*t" these are heavy. I am fairly sure I will be removing a lot of material where it is not required. Under the chassis, where the quarter-panel sides wrap around and under where the door sits. Door panels... reduced to not much more than an exterior skin.
Since it's a race car, why not glass the doors into the quarter-panels and eliminate a lot of the redundant surfaces? At least pare them down to just mounting points for the skin. Perhaps just aluminum mounting points glassed into the back-side or aluminum sandwiched between small patches left on the quarter-panel and door's turn-ins.

[Rasmus]

Since it's a race car, why not glass the doors into the quarter-panels and eliminate a lot of the redundant surfaces?

Good idea. To bad my rule set states:

17.2.J
Doors may be lightened and may be replaced by ones of alternate
materials. Doors may be pinned, but not bolted, to prevent their
opening in case of an accident. Quick release fasteners (e.g., Dzus
fasteners) are allowed. Standard door hinges and latch mechanisms
may be removed, but the doors shall be capable of being opened or
removed. Interior door panels may be removed or replaced and the
door window slots may be covered. Alternate attachment devices
may be added to hood and deck lid to supplement or replace the
latches. Hood and deck lid hinges may be removed.

&

18.1.B
Respecting Section 18.1.F: Aerodynamic Aids, bodywork may be
modified beyond the allowances of Section 17.2; however, the
shape of the body must remain recognizable as that of the ap-
proved make and model. The body must be made of a fire resis-
tant material. Doors, hoods, trunk lids, sunroofs, hatchbacks, etc.
need not function as originally designed. Bumpers, grilles, lights,
glass, and trim may be removed. Side mirrors and tail/stop lights
are not required.

And because it's the SCCA rule set "if it doesn't say you can, you can't". Unless a modification is specifically allowed by the rule set, it is disallowed. So I still have to have doors. Though they don't have to function and can be made from carbon fiber. But it still has to look like a door from the outside.

At least pare them down to just mounting points for the skin. Perhaps just aluminum mounting points glassed into the back-side or aluminum sandwiched between small patches left on the quarter-panel and door's turn-ins.

Good idea and totally allowed by my rule set.

[Frank818]

Finally you changed your thread's title.

Scargo, Rasmus is not dieting, he's anorexing.

[Rasmus]

I didn't know how to change it. I had to PM'd David Hodgkins, requesting him to change it.

Scargo, Rasmus is not dieting, he's anorexing.

I'll be so pretty and all the boys will like me when I finally get down to 95 lb.

[Hindsight]

If you make 95lbs, you'll be able to wrestle 5th graders and totally dominate!

[longislandwrx]

please remove battery tray and weigh. a lightweight battery should easily bolt direct to frame

[Rasmus]

please remove battery tray and weigh. a lightweight battery should easily bolt direct to frame

Based on the dimensions: 10" x 8.5" x 16gauge the steel battery tray should come in around 667 grams. Maybe 675 with welds.

[STiPWRD]

I didn't know how to change it. I had to PM'd David Hodgkins, requesting him to change it.


I'll be so pretty and all the boys will like me when I finally get down to 95 lb.

Rasmus always cracks me up but if there's anyone who can achieve the true 1800 lb vision of the 818, it's him

[Santiago]

Based on the dimensions: 10" x 8.5" x 16gauge the steel battery tray should come in around 667 grams. Maybe 675 with welds.

Crikey! A 10" x 8.5" tray! What battery are you using? You can cut that FFR one out if you don't have plans for it.

I used a Braille B14115 to crank over my Mustang's 4.6l engine for two years (track duty, not daily-driver duty). Shouldn't need more than that for the Subie mill.
5.8" L x 3.4" W x 5.8" H and only 11.5 lbs. I used a 22gauge tray I made, tracked it, slammed-it-into-a-wall with it, and never had trouble with it. But I did have it on a trickle charger most of the time.

Something to consider.

Best,
-j

[Frank818]

I used a Braille B14115 to crank over my Mustang's 4.6l engine for two years (track duty, not daily-driver duty). Shouldn't need more than that for the Subie mill.
5.8" L x 3.4" W x 5.8" H and only 11.5 lbs.

Too heavy for Raz. I believe on his race car he could go with the B106, at 6.9lbs and 527PCA. Or if money is not a problem, the $1300 micro-lithium at 4.9lbs.

I am looking in the middle, at the B129, 9.5lbs and 813PCA. Time will tell for me.

[Rasmus]

Re: Batteries

I'm not a fan of the Braille brand of batteries. 4 reasons:
1. They market heavily, all those marketing costs are passed down to the consumer;
2. they're rebranded Deka batteries with "Braille" stickers slapped on;
3. They overrate their battery specs. They get they're batteries from Deka. Deka sells the same batteries but Deka's specs are way lower (and more believable) than Braille's; and
4. They last about one year.

I've used and had success with Odyssey brand batteries. Specifically the:

PC545 - Pulse Cranking Amps 460 - 5.2 kg - $99 &


PC625 - Pulse Cranking Amps 530 - 6.0 kg - $110

The PC545 can have issues starting the EJ motor on colder days. And by cold, I mean Vegas cold, so ~40 Fahrenheit. The PC625 doesn't seem to have the same issue. With the longer distance to the starter on the 818 vs WRX I imagine the PC545 would struggle even more. Even if I installed the battery in the passenger foot well.

So I'm looking for a battery that's got over 500 PCA. Weighs less than 6.0 kg, and cost less than $200-300.

[Rasmus]

Think I might have found the battery:


The Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 or LFX18L1-BS12. The only difference between the two is the handedness of the terminals.

It's a LiFePO4 battery and they include a "Pb-Eq" rating for all their batteries so you can match theirs to your Pb (lead) battery. The LFX18's are rated at 18Ah PbEq 12V eq. The Odyssey PC625 has a rating of 18 Ah (20 hour) or 17 Ah (10 hour).

Might be the boy I ask to prom when I finally get down to 95 lb and can fit in my Size 00 prom dress.

Price on Amazon: $165
Length 5.83"
Width 2.63"
Height 4.13"
Weight: 1.05 kg. That's not a typo. 1.05 kilograms! 2.3 lb. Damn.

UPDATE: Might not be as good as I thought. See post #460 below.

[Scargo]

That's crazy! I might get one for my 818. I've been happy with the 11 pound Braille in my STi.

[Frank818]

I thought you knew about Shorai. I admit that being in the motorbikes world means I know about them. I am unsure how they perform on a car, though, but if the specs are right and knowing your car is not a car, but stripped off car, making it closer to a bike, might be worth it. Don't forget that you will probably need a special lithium-ion charger, adding 85 bucks. I don't think an AGM/Gel charger will work on a lithium battery.

[Boog]

I've been keeping an eye on the Stark Power 12V-36AH-US5:
http://store.starkpower.com/12V36Ah-...GER-_p_57.html

They have a large line of smaller/lighter versions as well. I have not looked for any reviews though.

[Rasmus]

Well looks like the Shorai might not be all it's cracked up to be. Based on actual load tests, it looks like Shora's PbEQ rating is a BS rating and wishful marketing. I hate it when I fall for that.

Video 1 Shorai LFX18 V Deka ETX14, Constant draw stress test
Video 2 Actual load tests, Shorai battery fail

And Frank818's correct. It looks like to maintain this battery in optimum condition you need Shorai's $85 charger. There are other brand's of LiFePO4 chargers but they're all about $60-$90.

A lot more to owning and running this battery than I thought.

[Santiago]

Didn't know that Braille's were repackaged Deka's. Good to know, since the Braille replacement I just got is a Deka! =)

Funny, I've heard folks lodge the same complaints against the Odyssey batteries - they're only good for 2 years. Since I got that life out of my old Braille, I figure it's a wash. I think any way you look at it, you need to keep these small/light batteries on a trickle charger. A track buddy of mine also claims the Braille's are 1-year batteries. Then I asked him how frequently he keeps it on a charger. "All winter long while in storage! Then one time during three-to-four months of summer." Ok, YMMV. I was religious with mine.

Too bad about that Shorai...got me all excited. Guess the hunt for "the one" continues.

Best,
-j

[Rasmus]

Read even more about these LiFePO4 (Lithium iron phosphate) batteries, of which Shorai is one. They are super touchy:

WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER THE FOLLOWING ELECTRICAL ISSUES.
•Damage from direct “shorting” of the battery
•Damage occurring from V-Twin Motors that have a “jack shaft” get stuck and resulting in damaging of the battery
•Using a Battery Tender or similar product on the Battery (do not use trickle chargers)
•Use of Chargers intended for Lead/Acid batteries (do not use any charger for lead/acid batteries)
•Use of Chargers NOT intended specifically for Lifepo4 Lithium Motorsprot Batteries with a maximum charge voltage not over 14.4v
•Overcharging due to a defect with vehicle’s voltage regulator or defective charging system on the vehicle
•Over Charging battery above 14.6v
•Over Discharge of battery below 11v
•Allowing voltage to drop below 11v
•Excessive overcranking or using too small of a battery necessary for the application
•Parasitic drains that discharge the battery to below 11v (please check your electrical system for parasitic drains)
•Use in any non-standard electrical systems such as “total-loss systems, ”24-volt systems”, etc….(Only standard stock systems are warrantied)

Nope. I'm nixing all LiFePO4 batteries from consideration. I'm not looking after a $160+ battery like it's a toddler.

I'm back to the Odyssey PC625.

[Rasmus]

That stated, the LiFePO4 battery from EarthX


Model ETX36E comes with a built in battery management system. 680 Pulse Cranking Amps. 36 (Eq)Ah. I might not trust that. Weighs 1.8 kg. But costs $350.

[Frank818]

Ok costs 350 but how long may it last? If it's 10years, then I'd be down for it. If it's expected for less than 5, not that good.

Well,

Our batteries are an exceptional value given the fact they can last four times longer than a lead-acid battery, up to 8 years.

[Mechie3]

I bought a Deka ETX14.

[MrDude_1]

You just need a LiFePO4 battery.. If you're willing to learn a little about them, you can just get a RC hobby battery, and RC charger.. and you're done.. it would be smaller, lighter, MUCH CHEAPER, and work exactly the same.

[D Clary]

A battery is a great pace to save weight, but the location of the battery is a place where the weight could be beneficial in the balance of the car. It is low and within the wheelbase. I would take the battery money and apply it to an Improved shock package.

[longislandwrx]

I'll just leave this here.


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...hlight=odyssey


545 baby.

resurrection.jpg

[MrDude_1]

I'll just leave this here.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...hlight=odyssey

545 baby.

resurrection.jpg

A group of us bought one of the odyssey batteries.. I forget the model, but it looked like that pic... I used on my camaro to start an LS1 everyday... a couple of the guys swapped to them at the track.. they never had a hard time starting that V8, so i doubt they would have any issues cranking over the tiny 4banger...

[Frank818]

A group of us bought one of the odyssey batteries.. I forget the model, but it looked like that pic... I used on my camaro to start an LS1 everyday... a couple of the guys swapped to them at the track.. they never had a hard time starting that V8, so i doubt they would have any issues cranking over the tiny 4banger...

Which pic? The PC545 or PC625?

[longislandwrx]

Well looks like the Shorai might not be all it's cracked up to be. Based on actual load tests, it looks like Shora's PbEQ rating is a BS rating and wishful marketing. I hate it when I fall for that.

Those Flukes Though!

[Rasmus]

Those Flukes Though!

Sorry man. I don't follow. I'm not getting the joke or something.

I've switched batteries again!


The Deka ETX15 or ETX15L looks awfully good.

??? Pulse Cranking Amps -14Ah - 5.0kg - $73

Lighter and cheaper than the two Odyssey batteries I've used, but more Ah than the PC545 (14Ah vs 12Ah) that gave me intermittent starting issues.

[Frank818]

So the battery should have a minimum of 14Ah to prevent starting issues on a car without radio, blower and electrical gizmos? (like yours and like mine. My headlights will even be turned off when I'll crank, just like now)

[Rasmus]

So the battery should have a minimum of 14Ah to prevent starting issues on a car without radio, blower and electrical gizmos? (like yours and like mine. My headlights will even be turned off when I'll crank, just like now)

In my experience, I could get the WRX to start with the 12Ah PC545 Odyssey throughout Spring, Summer, and Fall. As it started to dip below 40F or so in the winter it would still start the WRX but it was struggling. But then in the Spring it'd start the WRX, no issue. By the fourth winter it was time to get a new battery. I'd always park at the high side of the parking lot, nose out. I was constantly push starting the WRX, the little woman was none to happy when we had do to that.

With the 17Ah PC625 Odyssey, I can consistently start the WRX in all four seasons for Vegas temps. Once or twice it dips to 20F or so and then the battery will struggle, but still start, the WRX. Going on my third year with this battery.

With the Deka ETX15 being a 14Ah and knowing what I might be getting into. I'm willing to chance it for the weight savings, and price. Plus, I'll put it on one of those smart trickle chargers. So when I get the urge to go to Cars & Coffee in January, in a topless, windshield-less, no heater car, I could do so.

[Frank818]

Well that is very interesting. Looking at my habits, a 12Ah would be well sufficient. But what's interesting is that you seem to put more weight on the Ah rating than any other, like PCA or CA. I thought Ah was a measure of juice reserve, not necessarily how powerful that juice can be delivered on one crank attempt. Why then Ah seems that important for you?

[Rasmus]

But what's interesting is that you seem to put more weight on the Ah rating than any other, like PCA or CA. I thought Ah was a measure of juice reserve, not necessarily how powerful that juice can be delivered on one crank attempt. Why then Ah seems that important for you?

Mainly because I can't find a Pulse Cranking Amp rating for any of the Deka batteries. And I don't trust a single datum from Braille's website of lies.

But going by the Cold Cranking Amps

Odyssey PC545 - 150CCA - 460PCA
Odyssey PC625 - 200CCA - 530PCA
Deka ETX15 - 220CCA - ???PCA

So assuming that PCA ratings could be somewhat inferred from the the CCA ratings the Deka ETX15 would seem to be able to start a 8.5:1 compression, 4 cylinder, 4 stroke engine.

[Rasmus]

Designed, made and installed...


"anti-intrusion" side panels. I installed them on the outside of the bars, so you could still see the bars from inside the cabin. Otherwise, it'd look like a shiny aluminum box you were riding in.

[RM1SepEx]

Those AGM batteries can deliver quite a few amps for short periods though the voltage will sag quite a bit. I autocrossed my electric kart with seven 12v, 20 AH AGM batteries and could pull over 400 max amps during a run. I ran this kart for over 80 autocross runs plus testing and still use several of these batteries after 5 years, one in my 4 wheeler.

You should consider a 12V 20AH AGM, they run about 13 lbs and are avail with several post types for around $40-50 ea. The Deka is a std powersonic AGM battery

Here is an example, with the 3 year squaretrade warrantee less than $50.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-20AH-T6-...item3f3726e744

Check out their store, these same batteries are used for ATVs and motorcycles with different pole types.

[Frank818]

Crap, that ebay guy does not ship to Canada.

[longislandwrx]

Do you have some extra metal to make new seatbelt block-off pieces? Or are you keeping that slot for your gum wrappers?

Joke was that that battery was weak but that guy's Fluke 289 and 867B were the hotness.