SixStarCars' 818R - NASA ST3 - SCCA Solo X Prepared Build Thread

[C.Plavan]

As far as I know, there are only 2 versions - angled and straight. I have chassis #77 and got the angled upper control arms, even though others before got the straight ones, so people could have either. Or in your case, BOTH! LOL

The straight one can be flipped, so it works as is. The angled ones require some work when you flip it. You have to swap the long & short black turnbuckle adjusters, and in the process you have cut the longer threaded "bolt" they attach to (by an inch I think?). It's been documented elsewhere.

Proper assembly is (and this is straight from FFR):

If angled, angle points out at the top
Zerk fittings up
Shorter black turnbuckle adjuster toward the rear of the vehicle

So simply assemble accordingly, and cut the one threaded part that's too long (check for the proper measurement though - don't take my word on it).

I thought there was a discussion that if you had the newer angled UCA's you did not need to cut. Or am I smoking crack?

[Scargo]

I thought there was a discussion that if you had the newer angled UCA's you did not need to cut. Or am I smoking crack?

Only you know that... but I don't think you are delusional. If you read this thread "A little confused about front upper Control Arm..." you might feel like you have smoked crack. And I am not sure what the final answer is...

[Xusia]

I can only answer for my situation: Chassis #77, angled UCA's. I called was told to cut...

[SixStar]

The guys that make the arms and sell them to FFR were here the other day. They don't recommend cutting the mount. Instead they suggest that everyone just use the flat mounts. But yes if you have the angled ones you do have to flip and cut one.

[Xusia]

Did you ask them why they don't just make a left and a right?!?

[SixStar]

Did you ask them why they don't just make a left and a right?!?

The upper arms that are included with the kit aren't something they sell to the general public. All the complete arms they sell have equal length center sections (the black large twisty bit). So as they are off the shelf it's a non-issue. When you start to mix and match long and short "arms" is when you run into this left/right problem. So on the complete arms they sell you will have a bolt in front on one side and a weld in front on the other but since the middle of the arm is the same you don't have to cut it. I was never REALLY bothered by having a weld in front on one and a bolt on the other, the part I didn't like was having one arm that was cut, having less material in the center section and thus being potentially weaker on one side.

My suggestion is to just buy the flat ball joint mounts. They give a great angle on the joint and the boot fits WAY better. Now I do have two different flat ball joint mounts on the 818R as they came at different times, so we will just have to see what we can get and buy 3 more of those (for #80 and #85).

Also..... I'm NOT bashing FFR here, they saw an issue and presented a decent solution for the general public. I plan on racing this car VERY VERY hard and would just rather not have issues even though I honestly don't think there would ever be any. Just my $0.02 on the situation.

[Xusia]

To me, that really begs the question of what advantage there is going with different lengths on each side of the arm.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

To me, that really begs the question of what advantage there is going with different lengths on each side of the arm.

I suspect when FFR designed the car they started with equal length arms. Along the way the decide on more caster and the arms became uneven.
At sema 2012 they were the same length on the go kart. uca.jpg
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Bob

[SixStar]

Yep. I think they realized that they needed to tilt the top of the spindle back to get the caster they wanted. IMO there could have been many problems solved by just lengthening the LCA mounts (caster, tire clearance, etc.)

[Scargo]

With unequal arms I'm assuming there is an increase in caster with compression. I don't know what the lower arm is doing as it moves. Does anyone?
Let's assume that in compression, or bump, that for a street version, this increase in caster might be desirable. We also know that caster change has a big effect on bump steer. This might be dramatic if the geometry is fiddled with.

Of course everyone has their own goals for the car. An autocross setup would be quite custom.
Other factors might be that with equal lengths on top, and moving the bottom suspension forward to regain caster, it would give more room for a bigger wheel diameter but also increase the wheelbase and extend the front of the car and shift weight to the front.

[D Clary]

If you extend the wheel base forward it shifts weight to the rear

[Xusia]

Bob, I suspect you are right. My thought was they could have achieved the same thing by moving the mount, instead of shortening one side of the UCA.

[metalmaker12]

Yep. I think they realized that they needed to tilt the top of the spindle back to get the caster they wanted. IMO there could have been many problems solved by just lengthening the LCA mounts (caster, tire clearance, etc.)

Agreed!

[SixStar]

Moving right along with the race car when we're not busy with customer's cars our the fleet of other race cars we build and maintain. Finally got the doors mounted up, not 100% done but the concept is there. Spent WAY too much time on the "wiper cowl" - three days is just silly, but it really really doesn't fit well with the extra chassis bars on the R. We have it close enough to start thinking about the windscreen and front end though.

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Starting to look like a car finally. More body mounting then we can tear it all down and send it to paint!

[Brando]

Spent WAY too much time on the "wiper cowl" - three days is just silly, but it really really doesn't fit well with the extra chassis bars on the R. We have it close enough to start thinking about the windscreen and front end though.
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I'm struggling on the wiper cowl & windscreen install. I was hoping someone might start an thread on the R sub forum. Since your leading the way any chance you have the time to show us the path you took?
How did you go about mounting your doors?

[SixStar]

I'm struggling on the wiper cowl & windscreen install. I was hoping someone might start an thread on the R sub forum. Since your leading the way any chance you have the time to show us the path you took?
How did you go about mounting your doors?

No problem. I'll do a quick write up on how I did the cowl in the R forum tomorrow. Doors I'll post here.

[SixStar]

Sorry for the delay. Got busy getting ready for the NASA race this weekend. I'll try and fit it in early next week.

[SixStar]

Finally found some spare time, so on the subject of "wiper cowl" mounting, cut, cut more, cut MORE. We spent 2 days on this and it's still not 100% how I'd like it to fit. We're going to mount the actual screen next and see if that helps with getting the right arc on the cowl. The underside aluminum will need a good deal of work to fit at well. In the end the screen, dash, cowl, under side aluminum and the doors will all come to the same point up front with the doors holding the edges down on our car.

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A word of caution.... read ahead.... my guy got lucky with the master cover, he cut a bit too much off the cowl but it was able to be covered up with just a slightly off center hood support. Lesson learned. We still have to rivet the Dzus fasteners on in a few spots and we will have the quick turn ones over the masters that don't need a tool. I should have all that done Monday along with a tow strap solution I hope.

Here's how I chose to mount the doors:
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So on the top I notched a Dzus plate to fit the roll bar structure, super simple. We will have something similar in the back and the front with some 1" strap being the supporting material. I'm waiting on finishing the rear panels before moving forward with all of that. I'm pretty damn proud of the bottom door mount, we reused the grommets from the shifter and just pushed them into the 1/4 panel/rocker. A pair of 3/8" hood pins bolt to the door skin and push into the grommets. Done, easy. The doors aren't heavy nor are they structural so only the bare minimum to keep them on is needed.

When I ordered the pins for the doors I also ordered aluminum 1/2" pins for the rest of the car, this equated to an almost 3lb weight savings over the entire car! We're not worried about weight, but every little bit helps, especially high up. It seems silly until you think about the % that is of the total wight of a sub 2k car!

[C.Plavan]

Where did you get the hardware with the big convex washers and allen head bolts? I have been looking all over for those.

[Scargo]

Where did you get the hardware with the big convex washers and allen head bolts? I have been looking all over for those.

Believe it or not, I found a lot on Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/aluminum-conical-washer

Probably what you are looking for. Allstar countersunk bolts/washers.

[SixStar]

Summit. They're from Allstar. Great for covering up sloppy drilling and securing large panels.

[SixStar]

Received some parts for the R today, it's been months since the car has been touched, plan on that changing soon.

Killer B Oil Pan, Windage, and Pickup and a EJ20SS to put it all on. The SS stands for Secret Sauce!

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[SixStar]

Did some quick and dirty mock up of the front end and splitter for the open house on Sunday. She looks angry!

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[nkw8181]

Looking good looking good!

[Frank818]

Wow I never thought gold wheels would look that good. Just don't drive with that wheel adjustment.

You put the IC directly in the back or the rear bumper?

[longislandwrx]

Wow I never thought gold wheels would look that good.

agreed, they look really good with the white.


gold powdercoat for the frame? bad ***.

[SixStar]

I had to rob the lateral links from this car for #80 so it only has one RS link on each side and a ratchet strap, ha ha ha.

[C.Plavan]

I bet its hard to get those doors on with the fenders right? I was looking to mount my doors like you did, but I think with the fenders it would be very difficult. I need to slide my doors into the front pocket to get them in, I dont think with the pins I would be able to. I'll look more closely soon.

[SixStar]

You know I never thought about it until just the other day and you're right. Honestly I don't see a reason they would need to come off but I'm going to revisit my mounting solution next week.

[metros]

Details on that front tow strap?

[SixStar]

Details on that front tow strap?

It's for looks. That one wasn't long enough. From the front bumper to any real structure is 32" My main concern with using a soft strap would be if there was ever an extreme angle when towing it could destroy the bumper and splitter. I'm looking at a few other options, for now the car can be towed with the roll bar, it's how we do the dragsters and works very well if you have a driver in the car to hold up the strap.

[SixStar]

With the whole SEMA/AEM build things have taken a different path than I envisioned. No longer concerned with rules we're going all out on this car.

The majority of the bolt ons will still be Grimmspeed (ported intake, TGV deletes, PnP exhaust manifolds, crossover, EWG up pipe, phenolics, and EBCS), Killer B pickup, pan and windage on a 257 block, 2.0L heads that have been combustion matched to the 2.5 with BC springs, retainers and Stage 2 272 cams, .5mm over valves, Perrin fuel rails, ID 1000 injectors, AEM E85 fuel pump, Crawford AOS, Exedy twin disc clutch, GT Modena TBD, RalliSpec RA gears, COBB V3 AP, and of course the CORaceFab custom RMIC. New to the mix is a Garrett GTX3071R turbo, pretty excited about that! new goal for the car is a safe 350whp on E85. Should be EASY to reach, might be harder to not push past to be honest. Worst case it makes 400 and we see how long the stock pistons last before the lands crack, then it'll be onto the Weisco setup we run in all our customers cars. It would be nice to do it all at once but this build has already exceeded budget by a bit and there are a few things left to source still.

[Rasmus]

No longer concerned with rules we're going all out on this car.

Darn. I was looking forward to seeing how well it'd do in X Prepared.

[SixStar]

Have they even allowed it in XP yet? From what I know 2015 will be E-mod.

[Scargo]

Seems foolish that you would even start off with stock pistons. If the boost is below 22 and everything else is perfect then roll the dice.

[SixStar]

The good news is, I have LOTS of 257 blocks and even more brand new pistons to put in those blocks. Also I'm not greedy. The car will be tuned to 15-18psi and will be fine. There's no point in turning it up to 22-24psi just to make a number to impress someone and break things.

[JeromeS13]

The good news is, I have LOTS of 257 blocks and even more brand new pistons to put in those blocks. Also I'm not greedy. The car will be tuned to 15-18psi and will be fine. There's no point in turning it up to 22-24psi just to make a number to impress someone and break things.

But, why gamble? I've seen the OEM pistons fail at stock boost levels...

[SixStar]

About 3,000 reasons.

We're using a brand new zero mile short block. If it will make you feel better I'll gladly let you buy us a built short block.

Checks can be made payable to:

Six Star Cars
ATTN: SEMA Donations
423 25th St
Greeley CO 80631

[Rasmus]

Have they even allowed it in XP yet? From what I know 2015 will be E-mod.

You're correct. The SCCA classified the 818 into E Modified and moved the GTM out of XP and into EM.

[iWire]

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