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Thread: SixStarCars' 818R - NASA ST3 - SCCA Solo X Prepared Build Thread

  1. #81
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    I'm waiting to see what the price quotes come in at for a legal stock location tank, if its $1600 i'll pass and do what plavin is doing, passenger seat location.

    Step 1 remove passenger seat

    Step 2 bolt fuel cell to seat rails

    Step 3 pump fuel from main tank to cell, move line from stock tank/surge tank to cell


    an ed112 tank should be a good fit/cheap option.
    Yeah that's a good idea. Having some sort of quick change option for track days. I don't like the idea of giving up the passenger seat permanently, one of the best parts is that you can terrify someone else with these cars!
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  2. #82
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Yeah in my head I will bolt the inline pump right to the cell mount and have an additional electrical connector under the seat ready to go. I think the whole procedure will be doable in an hour, maybe 30 minutes once I get the hang of it.

    I'll need the passenger seat too sometimes. You never know who's going to want a ride
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  3. #83
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    I like the plumbing work. V-band flanges are so sexy a solution. I have one track that requires muffling. Grrr.
    I guess the intercooler stuff is aluminum? I don't understand why the SS is welded rather than bent? I know somebody's bending it since it can be purchased in bent segments. Learn me something!

  4. #84
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    I like the plumbing work. V-band flanges are so sexy a solution. I have one track that requires muffling. Grrr.
    I guess the intercooler stuff is aluminum? I don't understand why the SS is welded rather than bent? I know somebody's bending it since it can be purchased in bent segments. Learn me something!
    Yeah all aluminum on the IC stuff. Welding rather than bending is mostly because dies for the bender are $300-500 each and it faster and easier to just pie cut stainless U bends to get where you need. Plus tig is sexy.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  5. #85
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    We're back in 818 mode. Our S is being made a roller as we speak and there should be a second S showing up today or tomorrow.

    But, back to the 818R. We have the car back at the shop now after the rear wing mount, RMIC, and exhaust have been finished. Things left: plates for the wing, mounts for our fuel rails and Crawfor AOS, and a few other nick nacks. Then onto body mounting. I'm excited, it'll look like a car finally.

    Here are a few pictures of the wing mount and RMIC setup sans body panels.

    P3041391.JPG

    P3041392.JPG

    P3041393.JPG

    P3041394.JPG

    P3041395.JPG
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  6. #86
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    I follow your R build with rapt attention and take notes. You'll see bunches of your tweeks appear on my chassis.

  7. #87
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    I love the rear mounted intercooler but how are you planning on getting air flow back there? Some sort of scoop or wing to direct the air through it? Fans?

  8. #88
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Thanks Rasmus!!! The feeling is mutual!! I look forward to meeting you and your car on a course someday, trade cars for a run?

    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    I love the rear mounted intercooler but how are you planning on getting air flow back there? Some sort of scoop or wing to direct the air through it? Fans?
    The only opening in our roll pan (rear bumper) will be where the RMIC is located. The back of the car is basically a parachute which is why FFR has you cut openings in the back to let that air out. The air coming in will be supplied by the side vents and the two large pods behind the occupants. Our hope is that the amount of air being forced in by these four openings will be sufficient given the only exit provided flowing over the RMIC. Once the car is finished and running we will do a bunch of testing to make sure that it's operating at normal air-to-air efficiency. If it's not then we will look at using ducting first, think NASCAR style brake and/or fresh air ducting, then if that's not enough inline fans, then if that's not enough we can tin out the RMIC and force air through with the ducting and fans.

    Fingers crossed it works the way we think it will and we can run a very simple and basic system.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  9. #89
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    I wonder how this affects turbo lag? I don't have my kit yet so the perspectives of the images are giving me problems as I try and relate distances to my STi. In my R, I envision a rotated intake and an AWIC right in front of it. You are shifting weight rearward.
    Sorry for being so critical. I am backseat driving on everyone's build.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    Thanks Rasmus!!! The feeling is mutual!! I look forward to meeting you and your car on a course someday, trade cars for a run?
    Oh hell ya! And with the Utah Region right between us I'd love to meet up for some head-to-head 818, X-Prepared, Solo Shoot Out. It'd be nice to AutoX in Salt Lake during the summer and get out of the heat. Car-swap? I'm down. But I want feed back: too loose, too tight, too stiff, shocks set wrong, or "Really, you're sticking with white?".

    I'm even down for ride-alongs with driving critiques. The only way I got any better at driving Solo was: 1, practice and 2, having someone that knew how to drive ride along and tell me just one thing I could do better or one thing I was doing wrong. Helps to be humble in Solo. Even when I was the Solo Events Chair of the Las Vegas Region, I'd ask for people to ride with me and tell me how to improve.

  11. #91
    Member Slatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
    The only way I got any better at driving Solo was: 1, practice and 2, having someone that knew how to drive ride along and tell me just one thing I could do better or one thing I was doing wrong. Helps to be humble in Solo.
    Absolutely. And you need to pay attention to details, too. Good luck with the knee thing.

  12. #92
    Senior Member Goldwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    I wonder how this affects turbo lag?
    I doubt lag will be an issue. Turbo VW piping is longer usually having the turbos in the back of the engine, running to an intercooler in front of the right wheel, then up to the from of the engine to the intake. Those are comparable to Six Star's if not longer, and the VW's do pretty well. Spool away.

  13. #93
    Senior Member Goldwing's Avatar
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    Question. Maybe I didn't read back far enough. That rear hoop extending around the back from the shock tower brace. Is that part of the R cage, or your addition? Looks like a good frame for a drop in trunk tray. As well as adding a little protection to the transmission shift linkage.

  14. #94
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    They added that.

  15. #95
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwing View Post
    Question. Maybe I didn't read back far enough. That rear hoop extending around the back from the shock tower brace. Is that part of the R cage, or your addition? Looks like a good frame for a drop in trunk tray. As well as adding a little protection to the transmission shift linkage.
    Yeah that's our addition. I'm going to test fit it on our S later today to make sure that it will work with multiple vehicles. It's just for the wing and the RMIC, not designed for any protection.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  16. #96
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    I will say that in my case I like it as a potential trunk frame.

  17. #97
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    It would work VERY well for that. Some fiberglass and you could make a useful and rather large trunk space.

    Ran into a strange issue yesterday and I'm not sure how the eff it's been overlooked for so long, I must be overworked!

    IF2ljzq.jpg

    FFR is sending us another flat ball joint mount so no issue there. Still not sure what the solution to the S will be though since we have what appear to be two lefts and they can't be flipped to match. I vaguely remember this being a huge deal for the early S owners but searching the piles of threads has yielded me very little in the way of an answer, and since it appears there are now 3 versions of the upper arms it only adds to the confusion.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  18. #98
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Get back to you on this

  19. #99
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    As far as I know, there are only 2 versions - angled and straight. I have chassis #77 and got the angled upper control arms, even though others before got the straight ones, so people could have either. Or in your case, BOTH! LOL

    The straight one can be flipped, so it works as is. The angled ones require some work when you flip it. You have to swap the long & short black turnbuckle adjusters, and in the process you have cut the longer threaded "bolt" they attach to (by an inch I think?). It's been documented elsewhere.

    Proper assembly is (and this is straight from FFR):
    If angled, angle points out at the top
    Zerk fittings up
    Shorter black turnbuckle adjuster toward the rear of the vehicle

    So simply assemble accordingly, and cut the one threaded part that's too long (check for the proper measurement though - don't take my word on it).
    Last edited by Xusia; 03-06-2014 at 12:51 PM.

  20. #100
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    fate066 had the best measurements on cutting the threaded section.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  21. #101
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Referring to the gold ball joint mount, you'll have one with the weld in front and one with it in back. So they will basically never match? That stinks. I'm going to rock the flat ones and see if I can get something from SPC that will match on the S cars.


    Side notes. There has been some discussion of weight that we've been adding to the rear. So far here's what we have:

    Exhaust - 5.25lbs
    RMIC and piping - 19.75lbs
    RMIC/Wing mount - 13lbs

    So ~33lbs added to the back of the car, I can live with that given it allows me to run the GTC300 wing and have that downforce that we need.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  22. #102
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    Referring to the gold ball joint mount, you'll have one with the weld in front and one with it in back. So they will basically never match?
    Correct if you use the angled ones.

  23. #103
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    My kit also came with one of each, I sent back the angled one and they've sent a strait. Did you consider making the RMIC and wing mount from aluminum?
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  24. #104
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    My kit also came with one of each, I sent back the angled one and they've sent a strait. Did you consider making the RMIC and wing mount from aluminum?
    We could. There are two issues there, attaching it to the steel strut tower bar will require a slip fit and hose clamps or bolts adding fabrication time and cost, and I'm not certain the aluminum would be able to support a wing.

    The maximum potential downforce you can get with a GTC300 wing is just over 1500lbs. running at 120mph. Now we all know that WON'T happen with our cars, but we did build our mount out of chromoly and "tested" it with about 700lbs of humans standing on the back, it was cozy

    If all you wanted was a trunk it would be perfect for that. I have a fiberglass guy coming by Monday to help brainstorm some trunk options.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  25. #105
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Trunk=good! But, as long as it's there, why not make it strong enough to provide some crash protection? Personally, I'm a bit worried about larger trucks & SUVs sliding up and over the transmission & engine in a rear end collision...

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    The maximum potential downforce you can get with a GTC300 wing is just over 1500lbs. running at 120mph.
    Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here.
    "Weight transfer is the enemy."

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  27. #107
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
    Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here.
    he is stacking 3 wings.

  28. #108
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
    Not sure where you got that figure, but APR's own CFD data shows a maximum downforce for the GTC-300 of 2,049.43 N, which converts to approx. 460 lbs at 120mph (12AOA). They published the data here.
    2049 Newton Meters is 1512 Ft/Lbs according to the calculator I used.

    I'm missing something here.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  29. #109
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    I think you are confusing force and torque. Downforce is measured in pounds or newtons, not in foot-pounds or newton-meters. Put this into Google:

    convert 2049.43 newtons to pounds

  30. #110
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    I'm missing something here.
    you're missing 'g'.

    You're not converting torque, your converting Force (N) to mass (lbs); the conversion (4.4 N to a pound) assumes standard gravitational constant.

    edit: yes, lbs is force too, kg is mass
    Last edited by wleehendrick; 03-06-2014 at 06:46 PM.

  31. #111
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Ah ha. Well then, cough, cough, we clearly OVER tested our wing mount as was our intention!!!
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  32. #112
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStar View Post
    Ah ha. Well then, cough, cough, we clearly OVER tested our wing mount as was our intention!!!
    I like your recovery.
    In engineering I always say.
    "if you can't fix it, feature it."

  33. #113
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Ha ha, thanks.

    I just build them and race them. I leave the hardcore math to others.
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  34. #114
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    After falling down a flight of stairs and busting himself up pretty bad, our master fabricator is back at it. Focus is back on the 818R and it will get the majority of our attention from now on until it runs. Today is body mounting, we're going with a bolt on setup for the 1/4 panels so they can be removed when needed.

    Pilot holes were drilled at intervals on the bottom of the car, we're using 5 fasteners per side on the bottom. Those holes are then countersunk and hogged out a bit giving the flange nuts a place to tuck up and a bit more surface area for the weld.

    Holes aren't pretty, but that's the point actually:


    Here's the nut after it's been welded into the frame (bolt is for holding nut):


    After welding:


    After grinding flat (just needs to be close so the body will sit flush):



    Also, here are some 1/4"ish spacers we made to solve the radiator mounting issue:


    Mounted, much more better:
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  35. #115
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Yeah that's about the size spacer I needed. nice work.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  36. #116
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Got the 1/4s and diffuser mounted up today. I must say I'm very happy with how it turned out. The roll pan uses 6 boltes, 3 more for the diffuser, 11 per 1/4 and it's all off.

    The bottom of the 1/4s - 5 used
    27tNthv.jpg

    Diffuser:
    pZPKTPP.jpg
    LXtrUac.jpg
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  37. #117
    Senior Member Rasmus's Avatar
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    Looking good.

  38. #118
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    I know you said you will get the frame painted so this will all get stripped down at some point. I was hoping to see some documentation of how you gusseted and strengthened the frame.

  39. #119
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    I know you said you will get the frame painted so this will all get stripped down at some point. I was hoping to see some documentation of how you gusseted and strengthened the frame.
    Page 1 of this thread - http://imgur.com/a/ASBPB

    Easy to miss, I had to search for it and it's MY thread!
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

  40. #120
    Senior Member SixStar's Avatar
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    Didn't have my camera yesterday so this will skip ahead quite a ways. We have a solution for the wing finally! Fender liners are mounted to the 1/4's. Rear bumper comes off as a unit as does the wing and intercooler mount. Working on mounting the decklid and engine cover next. Taking our time and making sure it all goes on and more importantly comes off fast and easy. Our PnP intake and TGV deletes came from Grimmspeed yesterday too! Yay!

    Album of pictures - http://imgur.com/a/GzOqI#0
    Owner/builder - AEM Intakes 818R #85

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