Adam's Canadian 13B Rotary 818-SR Build

[Hindsight]

Wow, two ports and two pipes! Should be very clean.

[Canadian818]

I got a PM about the adapter plate I used and realized I hadn't post any info yet. Now that I know it works there's no reason not to. I got it from Volks conversions out of Australia. It was expensive, $1200aud shipped, and IMO the quality was poor. It's not a nice CnC piece, I had it put on a lathe to clean up the outside edge. I also had to weld up a void in the poor material. Also the flywheel bolts are for JDM clutches, so I had to have it drilled, tapped and new dowels installed for USDM clutches. However, to their credit, it fit together perfectly. As of now with the transmission in gear I can turn the crank easily with a 3/8" ratchet and the hubs spin.

[lt1_fd3s]

Thanks Adam for the info!

[Frank818]

Pretty nice! Pretty nice! You're moving fast lately!

You engine sits higher than mine at the top.
I also have about 5/8" clearance between the pulleys and FW tubes.
I also had to shorten the pump hose, I also use a walbro-like.

[blkstig]

As I'm sure you know, be very cautious of heat. It sounds like you're on the right path with heat management. Are you planning on using heat shielding,turbo blankets, and ceramic coating? I would suggest it if at all possible. Rotary engines exhaust are are higher than their piston counterpart. I'm also not sure what your use is going to be, but if you plan on doing any track time, look into a huge dual pass radiator to help out.
Have you decided on what fuel you're going to run? e85 will help with heat management if it's close to you. Meth injection will also work wonders for IATs and keep carbon buildup down.
I am so excited to see this come together. Keep up the good work

[Canadian818]

Fuel will be premixed 94 octane, no e85 here. I'll start with water injection to help with temps, and only add meth if needed. There will be a few heat shields, specifically between the turbo and intake manifold and around the cat. The exhaust will be wrapped, and gold reflective insulation everywhere. I'm also going to put a naca duct directly below the turbo in the floor to promote airflow in that area. The back of the car will be vented more than anyone else's I've seen so far, which should help with getting the heat out. Keeping the stock rad for initial testing, startup, go karting, but will upgrade before hitting the track.

[lt1_fd3s]

Hey, I'm also wondering the reason for the intake spacer between the UIM and LIM?

[Canadian818]

Hey, I'm also wondering the reason for the intake spacer between the UIM and LIM?

Heat. The lower intake manifold is exposed to a lot of heat, unfortunately putting a spacer between it and the block is out of my skill set, because it's a tapered flow. So in an attempt to stop that heat from spreading I'm going to try the spacer. Not sure how much it'll help, and I've never seen it before on a rotary, so it might be moot.

[lt1_fd3s]

I know a few folks will put the gold foil on the underside of the intake to help battle heat. And I've seen intakes getting ceramic coatings as well.

Another thing I like to do with the REW is relocate the coils to off the block as well. Try to get as much air flow on the block as I can.

Any thoughts yet on location of oil coolers?

[Canadian818]

I'm going to use AEM smart coils mounted to the firewall. Not 100% set on oil cooler(s). Once the body is on I'll take some measurements, ideally it'll be one large one mounted behind the passenger rear wheel with air ducted from the side cut out. Hopefully Kurt does another run of scoops.

[lt1_fd3s]

awesome! like many others I'll be following your build, and ask the occasional rotary related question!

[blkstig]

I'm going to use AEM smart coils mounted to the firewall.

I really love these coils. Well, what I've read and seen on them so far. I run a LSx D585 coil setup for my rotary. The more I read about the AEM smart coils the more I think I'm going to make the switch here soon. I have slight ignition breakup on my current LSx coils at 17-18psi. Supposedly, the AEM coils will clear up this issue.

I just can't tell you how happy I am you're doing this build... Keep it up

[Frank818]

Adam when you say you are not 100% set on the coolers, do you mean not set on installing any cooler at all or not set as to where you would want it (them) but that you know you will want at least one?

BTW it's you and me tonight, may the best of tonight wins.

[Canadian818]

Adam when you say you are not 100% set on the coolers, do you mean not set on installing any cooler at all or not set as to where you would want it (them) but that you know you will want at least one?

BTW it's you and me tonight, may the best of tonight wins.

Definitely want one. Hopefully I can fit a large one on the opposite side of my intercooler and hopefully it's enough.

As for the game, I'm not an oilers fan. I'm a relocated Newfie and a born 'n raised habs fan, albeit not an active one as of late.

[Canadian818]

Started working 12hr days this week, and worked yesterday, so progressed has slowed more than I had hoped. I did manage to get my turbo manifold fabricated, still lots of welding to do on it. I test fitted it, lots of clearance, not that the engine will move much.








I've been trying for awhile now to get some enkei RPF1's. I wanted 18x9.5 rear, and 17x8 front. Turns out its no easy task to get those in the same color. The search, waiting for emails from dealers, ordering, finding out weeks later they're on permanent back order, have just exhausted me. So I'm going to go back to my original plan of XXR 535's. I'll wrap them with toyo 888's. While I might track them, I'll inevitably get some RPF1's with slicks for that one day.

[Speedy G]

Nice Manifold! Any chance you can ceramic coat it? At least put a stainless heat shield above the exhaust mani, that way you don't heat up the intake that's right above it. Also, you don't want to lose heat before it gets into the turbine or the air will decompress and you'll lose power going into the turbo so it's best to wrap it or ceramic coat it. You might also want to think about de-stressing the manifold by making a turbo stand. At least something that will hold up the turbo to relieve the mani screws from stress during the heat-up cool-down cycles (200C-950C-200C). It's obviously not your first rodeo, but just in case. Copper lock nuts are also helpful. I had huge issues with my last turbo setup so I have some experience with what I'm talking about. My last suggestion would be to install an EGT sensor. There's nothing more helpful than an EGT sensor when tuning. It's really the one measurement that tells you where the line is.

Cheers!

Speedy G

[Canadian818]

Thanks Speedy G! It's always nice to have helpful input. I wasn't going to coat the manifold but I was going to wrap it, and the rest of my exhaust too. I'm also going to do a heat shield protecting the intake manifold. Instead of stainless I'm going to be modifying a "air bake" cookie sheet and wrapping it in DEI gold tape. The cookie pan has a neat design which is ideal for insulating with an air gap between two thin sheets of steel. I have two Egt bungs to weld in each runner, and I'll have a dual Egt gauge.

This actually is my first rodeo, so I welcome questions and suggestions. I'm just figuring things out as I go. For a turbo brace, what do you mean exactly? I often see braces from the header flange to the turbo flange, but do you mean a brace to the turbo itself? Also, what grade should I be looking at for some studs and nuts for the turbo to manifold connection? The Egt's on rotary's is extremely high, so whatever's the best. The studs for the block to manifold from Mazda hold up better than anything available aftermarket, I might see if they're long enough.

[Speedy G]

Regarding the brace, usually people brace larger turbos, but your turbo is only resting on 2 header runners, so the vibration and dynamic stress will all be taken up by those 2 runners. Those runners will probably also be at their operational limit if you tune aggressively (950C). What I've seen from welded manifolds is that the welds tend to develop pin holes form all that stress (or cracks). You may be able to improve reliability if you brace the turbo with something that's not running that hot, and can hold the turbo in place. You could weld something parallel to the runners from the header flange to the turbo flange.

Also regarding your EGT sensors, try not to weld them if possible. Welding renders steel brittle and can crack from dynamic stress (like the welds). I tapped the runner direcly but I had a cast iron manifold. In your case, maybe tapping the header flange directly would work, but I'm not sure if anything else will interfere.

[Canadian818]

Not much option on the Egt bungs, going to weld them at the halfway point of the runners. The runners are 1/8" thick 304, and the welds inside the pipe have been honed smooth, so I don't expect pinholes. I probably will add a brace from flange to flange like I had in mock up. The vibration of the engine is considerably less than a piston engine, so that's also in my favour.

Nothing new to report this week, working 12hr days and almost a 2hr round trip commute is really killing my garage time. Might have Sunday off, going to try to finish modifying my rear brakes. Ordered some stoptech pads, so I can actually finish installing the brakes soon. Whoop!

[Speedy G]

Regarding fasteners, on my jeep I had a good experience with these:

http://www.stage8.com/perfauto.html

I got them from summit. If you can't find the right size, I used split-lock header bolts on my wastegte and they worked like charm (but it looks like they're discontinued):

http://www.summitracing.com/int/sear...illocation=int

Here's a good discussion on header bolts (but it applies to wastegate and turbo bolts as well):

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...d.php?t=235025

If you don't feel like changing the studs you already have, at least use copper plated steel lock nuts. Copper just acts like an anti-seize, and they lock as well as a regular steel lock-nut.

Speedy G

[Kurk818]

Whats your plan for fitting the 295s or 305s in the wheel well? What size are you going with for front tires?

[Canadian818]

Whats your plan for fitting the 295s or 305s in the wheel well? What size are you going with for front tires?

I already have some frp flares from eBay. My plan is to epoxy them to the side sail. At some point I'd like to blend them, make a mold, and new side sails, but I'm not interested in spending too much time on that this winter. Once I get my wheels and tires I'm going to jump on the body install and I'll have pics up right away. I just posted in the wheel/tire thread, the 295's I ordered are discontinued and my supplier can only get one. Not sure if I should try to find one myself, try to get the 305's, or wait for the R888R's to be released to North America.

[Kurk818]

Do you have a pic of the frp flares? I have over 1500 miles with my 295. At max height, theres no rub of the original wheel well edge. I used hard rubber molded flares designed for 4x4 rigs.

What size were you thinking for fronts?

Is your main goal with the tire width aesthetics or to maximize surface area for power transfer?

[Canadian818]

I'll take some pics of the flares tomorrow, or Thursday. Going to be -25c tomorrow, might not want to go in the garage after working outside all day. 255's up front on 18x8.75. Both 255's and 295's are 25.1" diameter, the 305 is over 26".

[Kurk818]

I have 255s as well with the overall diameter matching. I went with Hankook Ventus v12 tires.

[Canadian818]

I have 255s as well with the overall diameter matching. I went with Hankook Ventus v12 tires.

Do you need flares up front? The fronts I ordered are +20 offset, what are yours? I have four flares, two bigger than the other two, not sure if I'll need all four, or maybe just the smaller ones in the back.

[Canadian818]

Also, how do you like your tires? How's the grip on the street? Any track days or autox?

[Kurk818]

I went with MiRo 398 18x10.5 Flat Black 5-114.3 [+20mm] for the front. I ended up adding 10mm spacers to clear the brembo brakes.

Here is a pic of the flares. You can kind of see the front wheel.



Very happy with grip. Almost impossible to loss traction at take off even with 380hp/tq to the wheels. I have not done any autox or track days.

[Kurk818]

[Canadian818]

I went with MiRo 398 18x10.5 Flat Black 5-114.3 [+20mm] for the front. I ended up adding 10mm spacers to clear the brembo brakes.

Here is a pic of the flares. You can kind of see the front wheel.



Very happy with grip. Almost impossible to loss traction at take off even with 380hp/tq to the wheels. I have not done any autox or track days.

Your front wheels are not 10.5, that must be the rear. My rotors are from an STI but my calipers are smaller than the brembo's so I might be good. I expect transmission and axle upgrades in my future before breaking loose. I remember when you first posted that second pic, epic! Bob's post on my R888R thread has got me thinking I might wait a few months for tires. I'll go ahead and get the rims though, itching to get something.

[Kurk818]

You are correct. The fronts are MiRo 398 18x8.5 Flat Black 5-114.3 [+35mm].

I did have to dish into the sheet metal to avoid rubbing on the inside at full lock on both sides.

[Frank818]

Hey Adam, where are you at on the build now?

[Canadian818]

Hey Adam, where are you at on the build now?

Not far enough to post pics, haha

[Canadian818]

Do you have a pic of the frp flares? I have over 1500 miles with my 295. At max height, theres no rub of the original wheel well edge. I used hard rubber molded flares designed for 4x4 rigs.

What size were you thinking for fronts?

Is your main goal with the tire width aesthetics or to maximize surface area for power transfer?

Sorry KurK, I forgot I said I'd post pics of the flares. Also, regarding your last question, it's a little of both. So many have mentioned traction being an issue, and while traction control is an option, IMO its not really "solving" the problem, although effective. I'm not going to lie though, the look is just....drool. I'm one of those guys that thinks that almost every sports car looks better with a widened body. I do plan to make 400+ hp, thus my turbo choice, so why not plan ahead for traction. Obviously I will need to address transmission and axles before attempting to put much power down.

Better late than never





I don't want to separate them just yet, but you get the idea. I gave up on KXwheels.com and ordered some wheels from NLmotoring.com on black friday. They've already shipped and should be here on wednesday. I've priced NT01's locally, I'm going to inquire about some R888 locally this week. I'd like to start mounting the body after christmas, at which point I'll start playing with the flares.

Oh and look what showed up!



I did get a chance to weld up my manifold this weekend. Needs some porting to clean up the inside, pics coming soon.

[Mechie3]

Oh and look what showed up!

I've shipped three or four similar boxes to Canada and they've all made it so far. Glad they showed up!

[Kurk818]

Does the radius of the flare match the openings of the car? That and not being able to adjust for perfect offset fitment is whats keeping me from buying off the shelf pieces.

Which set of wheels did you go with?

[Canadian818]

Does the radius of the flare match the openings of the car? That and not being able to adjust for perfect offset fitment is whats keeping me from buying off the shelf pieces.

Which set of wheels did you go with?

These are the flares I bought

There's some flex to them, I'm hopeful that I can get them to work. My thinking is that they will completely cover the flare already on the car. My side sails are wrapped and strapped to my ceiling, so I won't know for at least a few weeks.

I went with xxr 531's 18x11 +20 and 18x8.5 +20. They're the widest I can get, and while many hate dual bolt pattern wheels, it makes it much easier if I end up going with a 6spd or STI hubs.

[RetroRacing]

Wheel nuts, get the titanium ones, NOT the alum!
http://www.imageinmotion.com/

[Canadian818]

Wheel nuts, get the titanium ones, NOT the alum!
http://www.imageinmotion.com/

I actually ordered my steel ones from here. I didn't realize they had titanium ones, oh well. Thanks though!

[Canadian818]

Wheel Day!!!



It touches, but barely. I might have to change the shims on that bar a little to offset it inside. None of the suspension is tightened or aligned, so its hard to say if it'll be a problem requiring wheel spacers.



Whoa thats wide!



Clears the caliper no problem, but I wasn't worried with my low offset.




Slight mishap with ordering wheels, only got one front wheel. No big deal, another will be on its way soon. Obviously tires will have to wait.