Adam's Canadian 13B Rotary 818-SR Build

[Canadian818]

Thanks guys. I need a little help. I did my first bit of fibreglass yesterday, and unfortunately it made my whole house smell like glue hours later. The resin I used was Bondo polyester. Is there a different brand or type that will off gas less offensive odours? It'll be 4 or 5 months before I can do it outside, and I was hoping to be done by then.

[Scargo]

Do it "outside" and use more Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide (MEKP). I cannot tell you how much. I'm sure you have experienced making too big a batch of resin or Bondo and it was too hot (too much MEKP) and set up too fast? The chemical reaction made it get hot and the more mass you have the faster the reaction. The cold will slow it down.

Also, be careful with MEKP. Don't get it on your skin and for sure not in your eyes! Breathing can be harmful, so you should have ventilation. See section 3.
Yes, it's stinky!

[Canadian818]

Do it "outside" and use more Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide (MEKP). I cannot tell you how much. I'm sure you have experienced making too big a batch of resin or Bondo and it was too hot (too much MEKP) and set up too fast? The chemical reaction made it get hot and the more mass you have the faster the reaction. The cold will slow it down.

Also, be careful with MEKP. Don't get it on your skin and for sure not in your eyes! Breathing can be harmful, so you should have ventilation. See section 3.
Yes, it's stinky!

Outside isn't an option as I'm not sure the resin would ever cure at -40 degrees, lol. I'm wondering if maybe epoxy or vinyl-ester resins would allow me to continue without stinking up the house.

[Hindsight]

I use West System Epoxy and while it does have an odor, it isn't that strong at all. I have read various things about epoxy binding properly to vinyl-ester resins.... can't remember if people said yay or nay. Search the forums here.... I believe the post was by mikeinatlanta.

[Frank818]

Outside isn't an option as I'm not sure the resin would ever cure at -40 degrees, lol. I'm wondering if maybe epoxy or vinyl-ester resins would allow me to continue without stinking up the house.

At 15C vinyl ester takes at least 3 times the time to cure than at 20-21C. And it's more picky on the hardener mix too, if off it may badly cure or not at all.
So at -40, hum, hell no. loll

[Canadian818]

I know I read it here somewhere, but I couldn't find it. From what I understand the FFR parts are viynl ester, right?

Google tells me epoxy is the best choice for odour, so I'll try some of that. I can get the garage to around 15c, so perhaps there's a resin designed for curing at colder temps. Time to visit the local fibreglass supply shop I guess.

[Frank818]

FFR panels are vinyl ester, yes. I used from Derakane vinyl ester and am freakin pleased of the results. If you control it correctly, it hardness a lot and it's very difficult to remove. Doesn't smell horrible, it smells a lot but it doesn't make you leave the 650sq-ft ventilated room.

Epoxy, at least the one I'm using for my CF splitter and diffuser, doesn't smell as much as vinyl ester. But on vinyl ester, I've been told to use vinyl ester to maximize bond. Epoxy is supposed to bond very good too, I don't know the differences, just that my vinyl ester works above my expectations, which weren't just average.

At 15C I figured I needed a little more MEKP to make the resin harden somewhere between 110 and 200% of it's normal time. It works though, past expiry date (by a month) vinyl ester resin at 15C still bonds extremely strong.

Just be careful not to put any on your fingers, this thing sticks and you need to rub a lot or some high end industrial soap (which I have) to remove it with more ease.

[Aero STI]

Vinylester stinks similar to polyester. Epoxy isn't so bad of a smell. Get a respirator. I have done a lot of fiberglass work over the years and didn't pay attention to what the underlying resin was and didn't have issues. Although, it's best not to mix different types for maximum bond strength. The difference in cost isn't that great and the last thing you want is delamination a few years down the line.

[Frank818]

Vinylester is quite cheap for what you get. Although you will need a lot more than I did for your cut side sails and fenders.

[Canadian818]

Finally got back at the car today. I swear I haven't been slacking, there's a built in bookshelf project I've been telling the wife I'd do once the car is finished. She finally snapped, lol, so I hoped to it. Figured three years of procrastinating was a good run, haha.

Did a little more trimming and tweaking, and tomorrow I'll start laying fibreglass. I just wanted to post some mock up pics for some constructive criticism, maybe I'm missing something or some line is way off.

[Scargo]

How will you handle the as*-end and the blending of the side fender (sail) and the rounded corner of the bumper fascia? I could see you cutting the bumper in half and spreading it out there, but to match it up between the two pieces at that corner, and especially at the bottom, will be interesting. Will they remain separate pieces or part of the sail combined with the rear?
24475C76-E593-4773-B43E-428CF82A8E88.jpg Lift off or tilt?
ferrari-330-p4-by-noble-c880505082013191441_1.jpg
I'm helpful, aren't I?
I do intend to do the side inlets much like you are doing, with it cut, bent in and opened up quite a bit.
Please, no mudflaps...

[Canadian818]

How will you handle the as*-end and the blending of the side fender (sail) and the rounded corner of the bumper fascia? I could see you cutting the bumper in half and spreading it out there, but to match it up between the two pieces at that corner, and especially at the bottom, will be interesting. Will they remain separate pieces or part of the sail combined with the rear?
24475C76-E593-4773-B43E-428CF82A8E88.jpg Lift off or tilt?
ferrari-330-p4-by-noble-c880505082013191441_1.jpg
I'm helpful, aren't I?
I do intend to do the side inlets much like you are doing, with it cut, bent in and opened up quite a bit.
Please, no mudflaps...

My plan for the *** end is still up in the air. I have two main ideas, one involves reshaping the bumper, the other is creating a pretty wild diffuser.

I like the framing around the tail lights on this lambo concept, I would probably change the 818 lights.
lamborghini_estampida_6.jpg

I could widen the bumper and frame it to feature the tire like the P1.
mclarenp1gtrrear.jpg

I'm favouring the side pieces of the diffuser on this lambo. I've been thinking of making my own diffuser, opening up the back end more.
maxresdefault.jpg

[Scargo]

Some really great ideas and thanks for sharing. All along I have wanted an open rear. I look forward to seeing it develop.

[Frank818]

My plan for the *** end is still up in the air.

So the *** is up in the air. lolll

[Canadian818]

So the *** is up in the air. lolll

Yes Frank

Just got back from a local boat store, had a good chat with the guy there and I'm feeling confident I have a better product. Fingers crossed, progress pics coming soon.

[Canadian818]

Widebody progress.





Got a few layers of cloth laid out, and I'm fairly happy with how it all worked out. Next up is to remove it and glass from behind for strength, then reinstall and start shaping it with fairing compound. The scoop area will be a little reshaped to match the door line, but I want the intercooler reinstalled first so I can build the scoop inward for ducting.

I didn't want to cut any other parts yet as this was my first time working with fibreglass and I wasn't sure if I was up to the task. Now that I'm feeling more confident I'm going to begin widening the front and other side sail. Actually starting to feel like there's an end in sight now that I'm making headway on the body! Come one spring! (but not too fast, work to be done!)

[Frank818]

Man you'll fix those tinny fenders in no time!

What are you using to prevent the resin from dropping on the floor and along the fender so it retains its shape?

[Canadian818]

Man you'll fix those tinny fenders in no time!

What are you using to prevent the resin from dropping on the floor and along the fender so it retains its shape?

Wasn't too much of an issues, about 5 mins after I get everything wetted out I smoothed everything over with a spreader to get out the excess resin.

[Aero STI]

Looking good!

It looks like your top layer may have been woven. I've founded it best to use mat for a layer that will likely get sanded out. The mat is randomly oriented. The woven material is very structured and takes more effort to finish, sometimes requiring a thin layer of resin to be applied to smooth it out before going with filler and primer. Woven gets stronger when you criss cross the pattern. Some detail here: http://www.fibreglast.com/product/th...earning_Center

[Canadian818]

Thanks Andrew, very interesting read, which lead to google searches and more reading. Different opinions out there on using mat with epoxy. I just started building up the shape using glass beads mixed into epoxy like a filler, kinda neat.

I also started widening the front end, pretty sure I'm the first on this one too (why do I do this to myself?).







I'm not 100% sure how high to have the fender above the wheel to minimize rub. I want the outside edge to be flush looking down over the fender at the wheel. Any suggestions from those with finished cars?

[Frank818]

You've widen the WHOLE front too? Good looord...

About fender rub, you gotta test it. Depends on your wheel's diameter, splash guards, FFR frame welding variations, etc.

[Canadian818]

You've widen the WHOLE front too? Good looord...

About fender rub, you gotta test it. Depends on your wheel's diameter, splash guards, FFR frame welding variations, etc.

I understand that I'll need to test, but a starting point would help me temporarily locate everything before I mess with removing the coilover.

[jcpresto]

Hi Adam, what are you running upfront? I have a 285/30-18 on the front. 18x9.5 45 offset with 15mm spacer. We added 1.25 inches to the flare if that helps you from a starting point. No rub on compression.

[Canadian818]

245/40/18 on 18x8.5 +20

Do you mean 1.25" from the top of the tire to the bottom of the flare? Any pics?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm not 100% sure how high to have the fender above the wheel to minimize rub. I want the outside edge to be flush looking down over the fender at the wheel. Any suggestions from those with finished cars?

Canadian,
I like your widen body. I would go ahead and widen the frame.
I have about 1.5" between front tire and fender. I originally had rub.
To cure it, I'm running 500 springs in the rear to prevent body roll.
I also switched to taller upper ball joints in the front to give me more camber gain. This tucks the tire in during compression. My rear tires could stick out a 1/2" to 3/4" wider
Bob

[Canadian818]

Thanks bob! That's about the only thing left to widen, haha. I have 500lb springs out back and 350lb up front. I really want to get the fender as low as possible, but I'll start with around 1.25-1.5" and test fit. I know most remove the spring and go to the bump stop to check clearance, but is it fair to say that if I'm hitting the stops when driving that I need more spring?

[Aero STI]

The front gap you have now looks pretty similar to mine with the old nose. I think you'll be alright.

[jcpresto]

245/40/18 on 18x8.5 +20

Do you mean 1.25" from the top of the tire to the bottom of the flare? Any pics?

I don't have a pic of it finished. Should be in the next 2 months. I got distracted with building a house. The total flare is additional 1.25 wider. I cut the old flare completely off and started from scratch with a new curve and wider stance on the fender for both front and rear. I can fit about 2 fingers between tire and fender and have -1.6 camber in front. Here is a pic before cut the flares, but it doesn't help to much without drawing the lines in your head. image.jpeg

[Canadian818]

Thanks guys! jcpresto, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Another question, for anyone who did a single wiper. How much clearance between the windshield and hood did you need?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks guys! jcpresto, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Another question, for anyone who did a single wiper. How much clearance between the windshield and hood did you need?

I only have about a 1/4" of clearance. I did not trim my hood at all. I do not have any support lifting the hood in the middle.
I need to add some support because my hood flutters a bit at speed. You can see the end of my wiper travel where the windshield isn't clean.
Bob

wiper.jpg wipwr2.jpg wiprer3.jpg

[Canadian818]

Thanks as always Bob! 1/4" clearance to the wiper, but at the centre of the hood what's the distance from the hood to the windshield? Looks like around 2"? I don't want to get distracted with a wiper install right now, so I just to to make sure I leave enough room. Thanks

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks as always Bob! 1/4" clearance to the wiper, but at the centre of the hood what's the distance from the hood to the windshield? Looks like around 2"? I don't want to get distracted with a wiper install right now, so I just to to make sure I leave enough room. Thanks

I'll have to take a measurement. But I do know the windshield is all the back in its top slots. Maybe not all the way back in the bottom slots, as I was going for a little more rake in the windshield.
Bob

[AZPete]

Adam, 1 3/4 inch on mine which is a modified donor mechanism with a single donor wiper arm. I have an adjustable center hood brace.
Pete

[Canadian818]

Thanks Pete. There's quite a bit of edge I can trim down on the hood so I can stuff a 2x4 (1.5") in there and forget about it for now.

I've been working on the car lots. Unfortunately with bodywork, most of the work can't be relayed with pics. Today I finished structurally widening the front bumper, still need to weld up the modified bumper mounts. I glued and glassed over some studs to support the headlight buckets.



And now I'm working on reshaping the drivers side scoop to match the body line on the door.

[Aero STI]

The progress looks excellent!

I haven't followed the GTM closely to know if it's the same story, but thinking out loud it seems like quite a few people aren't quite satisfied with the body design of the 818. I wonder if Factory Five looks at a few of the threads currently working on or proposing extensive body mods and takes notice. I think that the design could use additional tweaking.

[Frank818]

I never thought you'd spend so much time on the body for so many mods. Seems like all the time I spent converting to VR6 Turbo you are spending converting to massive 600 tires front and rear (ok, "just" 305s but that's like 600 loll).

Since this is your 1st attempt on fiberglass, you are doing it like a pro!! I couldn't do that good, always amazed to see when people modify a panel.

[flynntuna]

Looking good. It's probably for the best that FFR decided to go with fiberglass panels rather than the thermoformed panels that were originally planned. So much creativity can be unleashed using fiberglass. Looking foward to your next update.

[Hindsight]

Wow, some very big changes! Can't wait to see it done.

[Canadian818]

Thanks guys! I'm fairly happy with how it's going. I'm sure FFR keeps an eye on what we're doing, after seeing all the struggle with the headlights they came out with the new nose. I'm not a huge fan of the front of the car, but I do prefer it to the new nose. IMO the back looks the worst, those tail lights just don't do it for me. I have plans to change those too, but I'm not sure if I'll get to it before spring.

I wanted to post this pic in hopes that it helps someone. I first put my bumper on a 1/2" thick board and screwed it down. Then I clamped two 2x6's to the bottom of the frame sticking out. Lay your bumper on this instead of on blocks and it insures your bumper is both inline with your frame and exactly 1/2" up. Also in this pic is my modified upper bumper brackets and the bottom brackets I made.

[flynntuna]

I totally agree with you on the front end. I've been considering changing it using the gt40 and Lexus as inspiration.