Adam's Canadian 13B Rotary 818-SR Build

[Canadian818]

You fab'ed this?

I did. First time experimenting with pie cutting pipe, and to be honest, I may never buy a bend again.

Looking good

Thank you sir!


Hope to have it finished tomorrow...

[svanlare]

Thats a lot of welding, but turned out good.

[Scargo]

Adam, That's pretty! Is that steel or stainless? If SS, are you back-purging or using something like Weldcote Metals Solar Flux Type B ?

[Canadian818]

It's all SS, and I'm back purging. I've never tried that flux, maybe next time.

[Scargo]

It works really well. It's great if you don't have to worry about it flaking off and going downstream and causing problems or if you can remove it as you go. it becomes glass-like and chips off fairly easily.

[Canadian818]

It works really well. It's great if you don't have to worry about it flaking off and going downstream and causing problems or if you can remove it as you go. it becomes glass-like and chips off fairly easily.

I'll have to try it next time, probably cheaper than argon too. This weekend is thanksgiving in Canada, so unfortunately turkey is going to keep me from getting all the welding done, but here's what I've come up with.





Once it's all welded up I'll make a bracket to the transmission, but this it. There's a lot of welds in there, so I'm going to wait until it's been properly heat cycled a few times before wrapping it just in case there a crack somewhere. It's definitely more restrictive than my first design, however as far as heat management goes it should keep the heat away from the intake and fuel lines. Also the cat wouldn't have lasted long in the other location with all the heat the rotary generates. Now the cat is almost 3' downstream. As an added bonus, the two 180* bends should quiet it down a bit, which was always going to be a problem.

Next up is hacking up my drivers side sail to clear my 305's. I'm still far from ready to do bodywork, but I want a rough fitment of where my side sail will be so I can mount my intercooler and get started on plumbing my IC piping.

[longislandwrx]

brap brap.

[Frank818]

Wow, you've got nothing behind that shock tower brace! Empty space, not even air!
I admit it's a pretty unusual exhaust setup but you've got to be creative, it's not an H4.

[Canadian818]

Wow, you've got nothing behind that shock tower brace! Empty space, not even air!
I admit it's a pretty unusual exhaust setup but you've got to be creative, it's not an H4.

I can see someone thinking it looks odd, however I have plans for that "empty space" so the packaging might make more sense later.

[Canadian818]

To those running oil coolers up front, like Chad or Wayne, is there any reason I shouldn't mount my inline thermostat up front?

[Wayne Presley]

I used a Mishmoto block mounted sandwich plate with a thermostat built in.

[Scargo]

I used a Mishimoto block mounted sandwich plate with a thermostat built in.

Wayne,
Is it this one?
MMOP-SPTR_3.png
I just saw this, for the BRZ, which would space the fittings farther away from the timing covers.
subaru-brz-scion-fr-s-oil-cooler-kit-2013-21.jpg
My Canton setup:
ctr-22-595_w_ml.jpgCanton adapter compressed.jpgDSC01457 (2).JPGoil routing low res.jpg
The Canton sits taller than any other products I know of, hence it allows fittings to hug the timing cover and be routed up the front, away from the exhaust.
I was just helping a friend build a motor and he has a two-way sandwich plate (that retains the filter mounting position). Two-way in that fittings can be on the side or on the top (as shown). I realized he could not run his oil lines like I do. He ran his fittings and hoses off the top, as shown. Either way you have to go over the exhaust at some point to get to a place for the oil cooler, etc. This spring he had one of his wrapped hoses burst, spin him out and cause an oil fire. His setup is like this:
sandwich plate_hoses_steve.PNG
Now I see that it is possible to buy a spacer and use the Mishimoto part you are suggesting, with the internal thermostat. This spacer may not be available separately as it is part of a Mishimoto kit.
mishimoto_spacer.PNG
However, the spacing of the Canton unit is near perfect in that fittings barely clear the covers and stay as far away from the headers as possible. Further spacing would move the hoses closer to the exhaust. The Canton part I use does not have an internal thermostatic bypass valve and they do not offer one with an internal thermostatic bypass valve!
Mocal makes a bunch of adapters with internal thermostats, that I'm guessing you sell, but I don't know if they stand any taller.

[Wayne Presley]

Wayne,
Is it this one?
MMOP-SPTR_3.png

Yes it is

[Hindsight]

Adam, here is my setup. The fittings easily clear the timing belt cover and the fittings aren't at-all close to the exhaust manifold heat shield. I'm using the mocal thermostatic sandwich plate with a BRZ spacer.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post198495
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post201822

[Frank818]

Adam at what degree your switch will open? Or what are you aiming for.
On my VW I open it at 80C, a little on the cold side, I believe, but temps always stayed between 90-100 on hot days when not pushing it for too long. I expect these values to change (but not the 80C) with the 818 due to the very very different cooler mount location.

[mikeb75]

Question about your cat positioning: is it too far from the exit of the turbo? Are you going to wrap the long straight pipe? I'm pretty sure the exhaust temp needs to be pretty high through the cat to get it to work correctly.

Those curves are awesome, very nice job there!

[Canadian818]

Thanks for sharing your setups guys, but I'm using a remote thermostat. If I mount it up front then I'd be adding the 12-15ft loop of -10 to my "cold" flow. I can't see that making much difference, and it's one less thing to cram in on the left side of the engine.

Adam at what degree your switch will open? Or what are you aiming for.
On my VW I open it at 80C, a little on the cold side, I believe, but temps always stayed between 90-100 on hot days when not pushing it for too long. I expect these values to change (but not the 80C) with the 818 due to the very very different cooler mount location.

The thermostat will open between 180*-190*F (80*-88*C).

Question about your cat positioning: is it too far from the exit of the turbo? Are you going to wrap the long straight pipe? I'm pretty sure the exhaust temp needs to be pretty high through the cat to get it to work correctly.

The exhaust temps are a lot higher on rotaries, so I was a little worried it wouldn't last with my initial design. This also allows me to put the wideband 18" after the turbo instead of 10", which should save me a few of those. The entire exhaust will be wrapped, except maybe the muffler, so the cat should be plenty warm.

Those curves are awesome, very nice job there!

Thanks, I'd be worried about flow, but the tight 180's work for the Porsche guys...

[Hindsight]

Damn! That rotary really transforms the look of the back of the 818!

[mikeb75]

A note about your thermostat (if it's a Perma-Cool like mine), it doesn't totally close under 180*F, it's just mostly closed.

...The valve is open when cold, to allow oil/fluid in the cooler circuit to be pre-warmed or to avoid air pockets. When the valve is closed, it has a slight relief to make up for restrictions elsewhere in the system...

[Canadian818]

A note about your thermostat (if it's a Perma-Cool like mine), it doesn't totally close under 180*F, it's just mostly closed.

It is the Perma-Cool, and yeah I noticed that too. But since the rotary relies on oil for 50% of its cooling, I'm not worried that it'll be a problem. It will probably be open most of the time.

Finished mocking up my intercooler plumbing. It's tight everywhere, but not so much that I'm concerned. If the engine moves more then expected, I'll have to support the tubes in the middle somewhere.



So now I have A LOT of welding to do, between the intercooler brackets, piping, and exhaust, I have my work cut out for me. The only thing left to fab before startup is the oil cooler mounts, and all my oil lines. My goal is startup before heading to Austin, Texas for the race next week. If the weather warms up like it's supposed to be, I might even get to drive it! But first, this all needs to melt....

[Frank818]

Excuse my words but that looks like a big white poop in the middle, there.

[Canadian818]

Excuse my words but that looks like a big white poop in the middle, there.

Haha, it used to be a snow man.

[Hindsight]

Wow, I can't even imagine having that much snow this early in the year! Well, nothing better than garage time when the weather is bad!

I apologize if you mentioned this previously and I missed it, but are you planning on building a shroud for the intercooler that will completely seal it up to the side sail so 100% of the air and pressure that comes in through the side scoop will be forced through the intercooler and if so, what material do you plan on using? I am planning on doing that for my oil cooler and have not decided on material but am thinking aluminum with bulb seal. I will use a contour gauge tool to get the curves and angles right for a perfect seal. Going to be a lot of work though....

[Canadian818]

Wow, I can't even imagine having that much snow this early in the year!

Yeah me either, it's depressing. Especially when I'm still hopeful to go kart. It's fairly common to get a cold blast for a week in October, and then warm up a little.

I apologize if you mentioned this previously and I missed it, but are you planning on building a shroud for the intercooler that will completely seal it up to the side sail so 100% of the air and pressure that comes in through the side scoop will be forced through the intercooler and if so, what material do you plan on using? I am planning on doing that for my oil cooler and have not decided on material but am thinking aluminum with bulb seal. I will use a contour gauge tool to get the curves and angles right for a perfect seal. Going to be a lot of work though....

Aluminum and bulb seal is my plan as well. I usually make the shapes/contours/bends with cardboard and tape first so I don't have to keep trimming the aluminum. I watch a lot of Netflix in the garage, so that's also a quieter method. Hopefully Kurk doesn't give up on a carbon fibre version of his scoops, which will be crucial in forcing air through my intercooler. I really hope to prove I can keep my intake temps down on track with this setup. For the weight obsessed in our group, the intercooler weights 20lbs, all piping, silicone, and clamps add another 4lbs. That's 28lbs lighter than an A2W cooler setup including water.

[carrera1984]

Pretty sick welding skills. I can't believe you have the patients for that. I've just started tig welding. Became a grand master in tungsten grinding on the exhaust I just finished. I'm a pretty experienced Arc and mig hobby welder so I was able to pick up the torch, but it was interesting. lol. Started with the thumb switch and moved to the pedal. Pedal and back purge was key.

Keep up the good work!

[Lumpyguy]

I can't wait to come to Edmonton tomorrow to That snow. What dates are you gone out of town? Oh I will take an XL gas monkey t shirt as well

[Hindsight]

Awesome keep us posted. If I do my ducting before you, I will be sure to share pics.

[Canadian818]

Pretty sick welding skills. I can't believe you have the patients for that. I've just started tig welding. Became a grand master in tungsten grinding on the exhaust I just finished. I'm a pretty experienced Arc and mig hobby welder so I was able to pick up the torch, but it was interesting. lol. Started with the thumb switch and moved to the pedal. Pedal and back purge was key.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks! I've been working as a welder for just over 10 years, and usually dread having to do it at home. I always enjoy fitting and tacking, but hours of welding gets old quick. I haven't worked much since spring, which is probably why I was willing to do it this way. I mostly just stick weld outside, that's where the money is, but once upon a time I used to mig and tig stainless and aluminum lots. I know very experienced welders that still go through a lot of tungsten, so don't beat yourself up about it. I always break mine in half and sharpen both ends, that way I need to stop to sharpen less often. A good hand control is very helpful in awkward positions, but the pedal is always the preferred method.

I can't wait to come to Edmonton tomorrow to That snow. What dates are you gone out of town? Oh I will take an XL gas monkey t shirt as well

I head to Texas on Thursday, how long are you in town? Apparently this much snow this early broke a 60 year old record. 8*c next week will melt it all though.

Awesome keep us posted. If I do my ducting before you, I will be sure to share pics.

Sometimes I think I post too much, lol, so I'm sure I will.

[Canadian818]

I finished up my plug wires last night, and figured I'd show this little section now that it's done.



The plug wires had to be tucked in tight so they don't interfere with the intake tube. Right in front of the coils on the same bracket is the fuse and relay for the coils. On the firewall ahead of the coils is the master 70amp fuse, and next to that is the fuel pump relay and fuse. Both the pump and coils get power directly from the battery, everything else is ran through the 70amp, besides the starter which is direct to the battery.

And here is a peak at another challenge I face between now and spring....

[Hindsight]

Oh boy, so you are gong to tackle custom fender flares too eh? I think so far, no one has really completed it though Tamra and Andrew seem furthest along. If someone made a sender of fiberglass flares that bolted on with a gasket, they could probably sell quite a few of them.

[Frank818]

Or you could leave them as is, gives a different look! :P Last w-e I've seen a super highly lowered Jetta with tires sticking out on very low offset BBS wheels. Better have a bump stop 1in higher, otherwise byebye either fenders or tires.

[Canadian818]

Oh boy, so you are gong to tackle custom fender flares too eh? I think so far, no one has really completed it though Tamra and Andrew seem furthest along. If someone made a sender of fiberglass flares that bolted on with a gasket, they could probably sell quite a few of them.

I'm going about it a little differently than they are in the back, I'll be pushing the whole rear section of the sail out rather than just a flare. Not sure what I'm doing up front. If I can find a flare that works I might go that way, or I could widen the bumper and hood a couple of inches. That would make my splitter useless though.

Or you could leave them as is, gives a different look! :P Last w-e I've seen a super highly lowered Jetta with tires sticking out on very low offset BBS wheels. Better have a bump stop 1in higher, otherwise byebye either fenders or tires.

Ummmmm NO! lol

[Hindsight]

Not a bad idea to widen the whole thing!

[Frank818]

I'm going about it a little differently than they are in the back, I'll be pushing the whole rear section of the sail out rather than just a flare.

Do you mean by cutting , moving and re-fiberglassing the sail portion on?
Or do you just mean stretching out the sail's portion by hand without cracking/cutting anytihng and without doing any fiberglass?
The latter will not cover your wide ***, trust me.

[Canadian818]

Do you mean by cutting , moving and re-fiberglassing the sail portion on?
Or do you just mean stretching out the sail's portion by hand without cracking/cutting anytihng and without doing any fiberglass?
The latter will not cover your wide ***, trust me.

Oh there will be lots of cutting and glassing in my future Frank.

[Canadian818]

So you want to run 25" tires up front? Here's the frame mods I had to do...







I will also have to modify the wheel well aluminum and leading edge of the side sail.

[Frank818]

So you want to run 25" tires up front?

No I don't, but that's a nice mod you did there. Nice curve on the flat plate you welded back on. Nice job.
How much clearance are you left with between the frame and tire?

You will trim the side sail the same?

[Canadian818]

No I don't, but that's a nice mod you did there. Nice curve on the flat plate you welded back on. Nice job.
How much clearance are you left with between the frame and tire?

You will trim the side sail the same?

Not sure how I'm trimming the side pod yet, might just move it all back as it is. I'll take a pic of the clearance with the tires on when I get back from Austin. Here's my view of turn 1.

[Scargo]

Lucky guy! I was born very close to there. Was on my bucket list to drive on it.

[Lumpyguy]

I got a chance to stop by and see this ride and I must say it's pretty sweet and I have to give him props! Nice to see things outside the box.