Adam's Canadian 13B Rotary 818-SR Build

[Canadian818]

Love it brother, good work. Now I gotta fit an s2000 setup

Thanks! That s2k engine would be sweet in an 818. I'd assume it's too long to fit without serious modifications though.

[Exidous]

Before you get too far in, I'd suggest you get the turbos off and look into the exhaust ports and inspect the apex seals and anything else you can see.

I would honestly consider saying twin turbo. Have a set upgraded by bnr supercars. Keep the sequential setup. You will LOVE the low end tq. It's certainly complicated but in a light car will be a ton of fun. The bnr's are easily capable of 350+whp. Near 400 comfortable. More with E85.

FYI I've owned FD's for 9 years. :-) cool build!

16bit ecu and the crossover pipe make me think it's a 99 plus motor.

[Canadian818]

Turbos are off and never going back on. IMO way to heavy, and low end torque is of no interest to me. I want a good mid range, track-able, and simple setup. Oil cooled BW-s300 twin scroll turbo, single 60mm wastegate. The apex seals appear to be good and I suspect the reason it was pulled is the busted turbo. Only time will tell, but hopefully I'll at least get to drive it a bit before a rebuild is necessary.

[Frank818]

Adam, are you an expert of the rotary or it's your 1st encounter?

[Canadian818]

Adam, are you an expert of the rotary or it's your 1st encounter?

Long time fan, first time owner. Unfortunately I currently have lots of time to research but no time to work on it.

[Exidous]

You mention mid range. A gt35r is the biggest you want to go for mid range. Rotary's much like diesels rely on boost for tq. Make sure you go smaller on the turbo then most. A rotary with a big turbo is imo one of the most unfun scary cars to drive. A rotary with a properly operating twin setup is a blast to drive but limited in anything over 400whp. 60mm wastegate seems really big. A 45 would be more than enough.

The smaller bw s362 wouldn't be a bad choice. Read a LOT and then read a ton more.

[blkstig]

I've been looking at 818's for the past couple of weeks and thought to myself how fun it would be with a rotary. I wish you success. I'm a rotary enthusiast. I've owned a few and currently own a boosted rx-8 along with other toys... you have the right motor. Sucks the 99spec twins didn't play out. They are definitely the more sought after set of twins. before trashing them Call Bryan and BNR Suprcars and see if he'll buy the core. He does a mean upgrade to the twins. something lke 400+whp capable...
If you pockets are deep, I would suggest going with a efr8374. It has very quick spool for the power it's able to produce. 12psi on a stock port motor would put you in the 320ish whp range most likely. In an 818 that would be a rocket ship and safe to have fun at the track. You could always go with a high boost map for shenanigans...

Keep the updates coming. You're single handedly pushing me towards my own build

[Canadian818]

Thanks, and I wish I had more time to work on the car and keep the updates coming. I seriously considered the EFR8374, and IMO it's the best turbo for the rotary. However, it's crazy expensive, and having to replace that because I blew some apex seals through it would suck. I like the idea of built in BOV and the divided wastegate, but not sure it's worth the extra money/risk to me.

[Frank818]

Adam, why the EFR8374 is the best for rotaries? What's so special about it that works better on rotaries than "normal" engines?

[Scargo]

Here's a guess: I have one and I have it earmarked for a near 600 crank HP engine for my track Subie. I know that it has an amazingly broad band of efficiency for lower air volumes and can deliver gobs of power before 4000 RPM. I predict 400 FPT at 3,600...
The volume of air the rotary moves must be a good fit. The turbo sure can move a lot of air on the high-end too, and the rotary has a lot of R's which means it can handle a big turbo there. My RX7 R1 had twin turbos, but they were pretty tiny. To find a turbo that can perform as if it were two is a good feat.

[Canadian818]

Scargo is right, the 8374 moves a lot of air. Rotaries favor a large hot side, and make less horsepower with the same turbocharger than piston engines. Like Scargo said, its a 600hp turbo for subaru's, however its a 400-450hp turbo for rotaries. A bit big for the 818, but I should be able to run it mid 300's on low boost while i sort out the suspension/aero/tranny/etc. The advantage of going with a s300 oil cooled turbo is that the cost of switching turbos isn't a big deal, and repairs/replacements are easily done locally. The slightly less spool isn't a big deal on track, and lets face it, it'll still be scary on the street. Decisions, decisions...

[Frank818]

Very interesting knowledge!!

[Canadian818]

Need some help and advice. I followed this thread to change out my backing plates to WRX plates to fit my nissan calipers. I wasn't going to install new bearings because my donor was low mileage. I pulled the drivers side hub, swapped backing plates and installed my ARP studs. When I went to reinstall the hub it just didn't seem right. The seal wasn't in enough and the hub was very difficult to turn, even after removing the axle bolt. I pulled it back off to see if I damaged anything. It didn't appear so. I decided to go ahead and pull the other side anyway, and well now I'm just confused. The bearings are different!



The one on the left is the driver side, and the ball bearings were actually left in housing, i just pulled them out by hand for this picture. So now I'm not sure what to do. Is it ok to have two different types of bearings? Is one inferior? Any suggestions on getting the hub back in? I can use a friends press if need be, but getting it in wasn't the problem.

I also manged to break a tone ring, and I was planning on trying traction control. I went to subaru and they want $150 for one! Ouch! Does anyone have one lying around they removed and don't plan to use?

Thanks

[Scargo]

I have tone rings from an STi that's around '05. If you can use them you can have one for cheap. What about these?
I kinda think rollers are better for a wheel bearing application.

[Canadian818]

My rear tone rings bolt on with 4 bolts. A quick eBay search didn't show anything. I'll post a pic tonight, I'm out buying parts

[Hindsight]

I used a press when re-installing the hubs into the spindles. Need to ensure you are supporting the spindle but the inner portion of the bearing.

Regarding the bearing, someone must have just replaced one at some point. My advice would be to always replace all bearings when building. It's not hard and it nearly guarantees you won't have to worry about it for the amount of time you will own the car.

You may not find just a tone ring.... you might have to buy a whole used spindle with the tone ring attached. Lots of those on eBay.

[STiPWRD]

I replaced all my wheel bearings, the rollers are OEM, the ball bearings must be some aftermarket bearings. I'd definitely use a press to install the hub back into the spindle.

[Canadian818]

Thanks for the input guys. When you pressed in the hub was the seal already in the spindle or on the hub?

[Hindsight]

Been so long since I've done it that it is hard to remember. I think there are three seals. Two on the inside end of the hub and one on the outside. I know for sure the outside seal must be in place before you press the hub in because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get to it. As for the inside two seals, I can't remember but feel like they can be installed after the hub is in.

[Frank818]

There are 3 seals yes. I can't recall which side they are. Do you need part #s?

[Canadian818]

Thanks guys. I went ahead and tried to install them again as I did before. I was able to hold the axle from spinning with my hand while tightening the nut with my cordless impact driver. The hub seemed to be all the way seated by the time it was out of steam (rated at 1500in/lbs torque). Then I installed a rotor and clamped it so it couldn't spin (no brakes yet) and finished torquing it to 137ft/lbs. All four hubs are done, and spinning as they did before. I was able to push the outer seal back in with a flat head screwdriver, seems good, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on them. I just uninstalled the other tone ring for now, I'll probably do my bearings anyway at some point after its driving, and reinstall the tone rings then. I'm a long way from setting up traction control.

[Canadian818]

Here is the tone ring I need. If anyone has one they're not using let me know what you want for it, I'm in no rush.



I decided to copy Rasmus for the front axle stubs and cut them down. I believe he cut off more than me, but I intend to use the tone rings at some point so I cut them flush with it. IMO it looks so much cleaner installed. I don't have a fancy scale like Rasmus, but my bathroom scale says I saved 2lbs a side.





I've been spending time in the garage for a couple of weeks now, had to buckle down and design my engine mounts. Here is the passenger side, I still need to trim the drivers side to match, but they're both tacked in place. Once my exhaust manifold is fabricated I'll pull the motor one last time, finish welding the mounts and paint them. I bought a 2-part Eastwood chassis paint, but once activated its only good for 24hrs. At $20/can I'm going to try to have all the frame mods done before paint.



I modified the OEM transmission mount as my transmission sits quite a bit lower. I filled it with windshield urethane, pretty stiff. Sorry for the bad pic, didn't realize how bad it was.





I also finally assembled and installed my axles. I used so many shop towels, and a few pairs of gloves, but it was so rewarding seeing them installed. I used Wayne's pipe clamp trick, worked like a charm.

[Canadian818]

This is my final clearance to the frame at the crank, 5/8".



I went to install my GM throttle body and it hit the frame, uh oh! Luckily while it uses different size bolts top to bottom, the holes are symetrical. So I drilled out the smaller holes and flipped the whole thing around. Not only did it solve my clearance issue with the frame, I can now use the oem mazda oil filler neck! woop woop! I'm assuming that there's firewall clearance issues on the RX7 to prevent running the TB as I am, so custom or FFE $250 oil filler necks are required. It looks close to the oil filter, but I checked, lots of room to remove it.



Oh and check out what I got!!!!!

[STiPWRD]

I was able to push the outer seal back in with a flat head screwdriver, seems good, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on them.

That's exactly what I did, everything seems to be hold up in the 11 miles I've driven around my neighborhood.

And whoa! Lot's of good progress here. That turbo looks awesome!

[Canadian818]

Thanks STiPWRD!

I have some words for whoever designed the pump bracket and tank bowl mess!!!! Ahhhrg that's a nuisance. Finally got it in only to realize that I need to shorten the hose to the pump. Anyone else have to do this? I'm using a walbro 255, and while it's the same size as the Subaru one the sock design is different.

Also, does anyone make those push on clips for fuel likes to AN fittings? I tried searching with poor results, I'm not sure what they're called.

[Scargo]

I think this 644110 Russell adapter is the one that will work. I've used them on my STi. They are for 5/16" fuel line.

Part Type:Fuel Line Adapter Fittings , Product Line:Russell Push-On EFI Fittie hose end.
Aeromotive makes one, too that clips in, like stock. I prefer the Russel parts and use blue Locktite.

[Canadian818]

Thank you good sir.

[Rasmus]

Thanks for the shout out man. Makes me feel good some of my work inspires others.

Which BorgWarner is that? The EFR7163? Twinscroll? You've got two rotors, right?

[Canadian818]

Thanks for the shout out man. Makes me feel good some of my work inspires others.

Which BorgWarner is that? The EFR7163? Twinscroll? You've got two rotors, right?

I read through most builds, but tend to not comment unless I have a question or something to add. I really enjoyed your obsession with the littlest detail, and I'm certain I'm not the only one. Glad to see you back at it, take lots of pics!

As for the turbo, well, you're just going to have to wait a few more days. Hope to start my manifold on Saturday, I really can't wait for everyone to see this jewel next to the 13b.

[Aero STI]

That's bigger than a 7163. It's got a 3" inlet. 7670 or larger.

The power delivery from the rotary with a big turbo in this chassis is going to be a riot.

[blkstig]

8374!!!
whooohoooo!!! @ 12-13psi that thing made 320ish whp on a stock port motor. I have seen close to 600whp and it wasn't even maxed out. Great turbo for the rotary.

[longislandwrx]

Sorry i'm late to this thread.

It is going to fly, my supercharged 1987 rx7 at 2500lbs was a rocket. this thing is going to be a bullet in third gear.


PS there's nothing unpractical about going to premix!

Looky what I found in the oil pan...

looks like the c-clips from the turbos thrust bearing... s-l1600.jpg

[Canadian818]

Excellent! The front turbo shaft had snapped, leaving the hotside just laying in the manifold. It must have just made its way down the oil drain. I'm still hopeful I can put this on the road without having to rebuild the engine. I ordered a coolant vacuum tester, just want to make sure the o rings are good.

[Canadian818]

Few things on the go. I coated the inside of my tank with POR tank sealer. Went ok, however I should've rolled it around more to get the access out as there's a few runs in there.



Shortened my fuel pump hose about 3/8", still need to rotate the pump a bit more to get the sock laying flat in the bowl.



After reading someones post yesterday about the level sensor arm getting stuck it got me thinking about how I modified my tank and it might not clear. I was right. So glad I realized this now.



And the last hour and a half in the garage tonight was trying to find the little clip that holds the float on that I lost while bending the arm. So frustrating. So far on this tank I've wasted 4 or 5 hours. A few unpacking every box in search of the fuel pump bracket which was in a bag on my workbench. I accidentally grabbed a stainless rivet to attach said bracket and broke my rivet gun, so I went to Lowes to get a new one and some heat shrink butt connectors, they had neither. What they did have was paint, so I patiently waited for my wife to get paint mixed knowing I was not going to accomplish anything that night. I had to go to two stores yesterday to get a new gun and butt connectors, and I ended up grinding off the SS rivet. And now tonight with the level arm. I WILL FINISH THIS TANK TOMORROW...afaik


On a plus note, I had some boxes from summit waiting for me when I got home from work! I got a Tilton reservoir for my brakes and clutch. I didn't like that the remote kit I got from mike linked the front and rear brakes together. Besides, this looks Race Car!



Also from summit was my DBA rotors. The fronts are soooo big, holy crap. The rear caliper sits about 1/4" to far out from center. I knew this before, many run it as is, however I'll be modifying the holes to bring the pad 100% on the rotor. Now I need to decide on brake pads and my brake buying is done.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Canadian,
When you put in your remote reservoir, make sure your hose runs down hill. If you have a high spot in the hose, there could be a bubble there. Under aggressive braking that bubble could get sucked into the master cylinder.
Bob

[Canadian818]

Canadian,
When you put in your remote reservoir, make sure your hose runs down hill. If you have a high spot in the hose, there could be a bubble there. Under aggressive braking that bubble could get sucked into the master cylinder.
Bob

Thanks Bob, I probably wouldn't have thought of that. Due to the design I'm kinda forced to swoop down and back up to the bottom anyway, but good advice for sure. I'll wait to mount it until the hood and wiper are done, seen a few people have to move them afterwards.

What pads are you using on your car? How are they? I'm thinking overly aggressive pads will be difficult to get heat into, and I cringe at brake squeal.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What pads are you using on your car? How are they? I'm thinking overly aggressive pads will be difficult to get heat into, and I cringe at brake squeal.

CENTRIC 30909290 on all 4 wheels. $44.79 per axle at rockauto.

StopTech Street Performance Brake Pads are engineered to meet the demands of high performance driving while maintaining the refinement and comfort expected in everyday driving conditions. StopTech brake pads combine the benefits of premium street brake pads with aggressive friction formulas suitable for track day and autocross use. Para-aramid composites are specially formulated to provide linear response at both cold and hot temperatures, delivering optimum stopping performance over a wide range of driving conditions.

I especially like the low fade quality.
With my caliper setup, I can lock up all 4 wheels at 80mph easily.
Bob

[Canadian818]

CENTRIC 30909290 on all 4 wheels. $44.79 per axle at rockauto.

StopTech Street Performance Brake Pads are engineered to meet the demands of high performance driving while maintaining the refinement and comfort expected in everyday driving conditions. StopTech brake pads combine the benefits of premium street brake pads with aggressive friction formulas suitable for track day and autocross use. Para-aramid composites are specially formulated to provide linear response at both cold and hot temperatures, delivering optimum stopping performance over a wide range of driving conditions.

I especially like the low fade quality.
With my caliper setup, I can lock up all 4 wheels at 80mph easily.
Bob

Thanks again Bob. I read some reviews and couldn't find any complaints. I'm going to order a set, so I can wrap up my brakes soon. Some questioned if they would be suitable for the track, but IMO I can't imagine it being an issue with the weight of the 818. If anything getting enough heat in the brakes will be the challenge.

[Canadian818]

Made some headway with the turbo manifold. Used a bunch of straps to put the turbo where I wanted it. I installed the 4" intake elbow and attempted to push it as far forward as possible to maximize exhaust length, I also wanted it as far away from the intake manifold as possible. I'll need to clock the center section, and I'm not sure yet how I'll route the charge pipe so I still might need to clock the compressor housing as well. My plan is an A2A intercooler on the drivers side. My piping will be a little long, but I want it far from the heat of the turbo and exhaust.







This week I'll turn this into an exhaust manifold...hopefully anyway.

[bbjones121]

A coworker of mine wants to start a rotary 818 also. I told him I have been following your build. Keep up the good work it looks great.