What are you swapping in?

[Ironhydroxide]

don't care what people say, when I get one of these, it WILL be getting an EG33 or an EZ30

[Xusia]

For the uninformed, those are... ??

[PhyrraM]

For the informed, those are... ??

Subaru's H6 powerplants.

They are longer than a 4 cylinders, so not "officially" supported. The common conception (speculation) is that they can likely be made to fit fairly easily by modifying the fuel tank and/or seating position.

[slopoke]

According to earlier threads, the EZ motors are only 7/10ths of an inch longer than the 4s ... divide that in half and you need less than a half inch of clearance to "shoehorn" one in. I'm gonna be looking for an EZ36D because I like the idea of an N/A motor. ... and I'm sure it can be chipped and tuned to put out at least 300 hp and still be reliable ... and have dual exhaust

[PhilElement]

don't care what people say, when I get one of these, it WILL be getting an EG33 or an EZ30

Well those engines have a lot of potential if you're willing to go custom and have a big budget. We've been part of a 900 HP ez 30 and are now working on a 1200 HP alcohol eg33. If you're going NA the ez30r is a good choice and I tuned one to about 300 hp using a Hydra EMS (same for other projects).

As for the length posted that doesn't sound right to me based on the front end clearances I remember. Also unless you will move the transmission back all your length is added towards the front.

[Etos]

N/A High Compression Destroked EJ257 to 2.34l
Long Rods
Blue Printed and Balanced
D25 Heads with DAVCS
Ported Dogleg, minor porting for the rest
Cams, +1 Valves, Bowl Blending
06+ WRX trans or STi 4.44

May also get a tiny turbo for 5-10psi for a little extra power.

[Xusia]

That sounds an awful lot like what Maxwell Performance builds.

[Etos]

That sounds an awful lot like what Maxwell Performance builds.

Cause they build my motors

They are currently building me a destroked 2.5 to 2.34 and bored back out to 2.5 with sleeves and 102.xx JE pistons, +2 long rods, billet crank, coated everything, 272 kelfords, +1 valves, PnP ~27% IIRC, Full Race twinscroll on an EFR 7670 .92 IWG and 50% meth injection for my 2008 STi.

[slopoke]

Didn't Perrin do an EZ30 out to around 800 hp?

[PhilElement]

Didn't Perrin do an EZ30 out to around 800 hp?

No they didn't go big with that EZ30R STi (EZ30 and EZ30R are different motors). There aren't too many high power EZ30Rs out there since it takes custom parts to build up. The one we worked on was an EZ30 which was from the Outback (non AVCS, no high lift cam, no DBW).

Making big power NA on Subarus honestly just isn't worth it. It's easy to think they make more low end power and have better throttle response but they really don't where it matters, in the midrange. Even a stock STi turbo setup is making 300 ft lbs early in the rpm range. For instance here's one of our high compression Element Pro Comp Engines, Hydra EMS, Element GT75 turbo kit.

Element-Pro-Comp-Hydra-27-GT75Ptrim-JE.jpg

There is no way an NA EZ 6 cylinder is going to make 440 ft/lbs of torque at 4,000 RPM or 330 HP at 4k RPM let alone make that HP by 8k rpm. Just saying but everyone has the right to do what they want and what they like

If you're going 800 HP plus the H6 options are great.

Thanks,
Philip Grabow

[bbjones121]

Didn't Perrin do an EZ30 out to around 800 hp?

Unless you don't care about reliability, I wouldn't run that much power on the EZ engine block. I would recommend the EG3.3 which is a stretched EJ block.

[RM1SepEx]

A stock WRX motor should be an excellent starting point at the 818 KG target... It's easier to chassis tune at lower HP levels and I've found that 10 lbs per HP is an excellent power figure, the stock wrx will exceed that level...

After tuning the chassis, who knows what will happen!

[shinn497]

Im drooling over the Jdm ej207 ver 8. 8k redline with twin scroll turbo. I hear the spec c ver has forged internals (confirm?).

It seems these can go up to 400 whp on a vf36. Which I think is stock.

[PhilElement]

That's what everyone said including yours truly but that car ran a stock open deck EZ30 block and the block held up. It was a drag only car but still it held together at massive power levels. Not going too say it would ever hold up road racing without blowing head gaskets as a semi closed deck is superior but at say 75 hp a cylinder it would ok.

[projectrally]

A stock WRX motor should be an excellent starting point at the 818 KG target... It's easier to chassis tune at lower HP levels and I've found that 10 lbs per HP is an excellent power figure, the stock wrx will exceed that level...

After tuning the chassis, who knows what will happen!

Agreed. I'm likely starting with an 05 Saab 9-2x. Base 2.0 WRX drivetrain with an STI's quicker steering rack and no obnoxious engine immobilized. I have a friend who has consented to sell me his 9-2x rather than trade it in next fall. In a perfect world I'd start with a JDM v8 ej207 to get that tasty 8200 rpm redline, but that's really not cost effective.

Plan A is to get the car built and dialed in for neutral handling. My 2600lb PRHT MX-5 was regularly beating WRXs and STIs at the autocross, with a much lower power to weight ratio. It's not because I'm a great driver (I'm average on a good day), it's because the car was balanced and precise in a way that bigger, heavier cars often aren't. If the 818 can be made as balanced as the MX-5 (I'm hoping I can make it a lot better), while also having 800 pounds less weight and an additional 70hp, I don't see why I'd ever need more at my current skill level.

if I'm ever able to out-drive the car's capabilities at some point in the future, I'll think about more power.

[Draco-REX]

So I was thinking of sourcing an engine and transmission from the start. But after looking at the process for getting a title in my state, I think I'm going to pick up a titled donor, throw the engine and trans in, get the title, then rip them out and build what I want.

[el_jefe]

I'd love to drop one of these in. . .



http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

[GPZ10]

I've always loved the Haybusa V-8. Never heard one run though... I'm imagining something along the lines of a F-1 car. One thing that confused me about their page though, just now when I was reading it:
"The engine is ideally suited for track cars and other lightweight race or recreational vehicles which have been limited to 4 cylinder engines for size and weight reasons."
It's still 8 cylinders, so I'm not sure what they're getting at here?

[projectrally]

I've always loved the Haybusa V-8. Never heard one run though... I'm imagining something along the lines of a F-1 car. One thing that confused me about their page though, just now when I was reading it:
"The engine is ideally suited for track cars and other lightweight race or recreational vehicles which have been limited to 4 cylinder engines for size and weight reasons."
It's still 8 cylinders, so I'm not sure what they're getting at here?

It's a V8, but it's a TINY V8. Very light weight, very compact. Hardly any more displacement at 2.8L than a lot of 4 cyl motors.

[GPZ10]

It's a V8, but it's a TINY V8. Very light weight, very compact. Hardly any more displacement at 2.8L than a lot of 4 cyl motors.

Got ya, so they're just referring to the physical size of the motor, and not the number of cylinders. I kinda thought that's what they were getting at, but wasn't sure. It almost seemed like they were trying to say that it could run in races restricted to only 4 cyl. engines, etc. but I knew that wasn't really possible.

[el_jefe]

Never heard one run though... I'm imagining something along the lines of a F-1 car.

[gorilla]

First of all. Turbo lag is really a non issue unless you plan on driving around town in this thing below 25mph most of the time. Secondly, turbo lag is irrelevant as long as you have proper gearing for the application. Thirdly in all forms of motorsports, the width and shape of the powerband is really the largest priority. I personally would rather have a ton of lag below 4k and have a fat power band all the way to 8k than a quick spooling setup that hits full boost at 2500rpm and craps the bed at 6k. And again gearing is very important, don't forget that you're always a downshift away from power.

That being said the STI VF39 & VF48's can have a great wide, usable powerband anything smaller on the 2.5 and your doing the motor a dis-service.

[GPZ10]

(video)

Not bad at all. I'd really like to consider an engine like this, but if I build this, I don't think it'd be as easy as a Suby motor would be. I would think that Dave will make that as plug and play as he can, so I'll probably stick with that. But this sounds awesome.

[el_jefe]

The swap wouldn't be too bad, but the $20k pricetag for the motor would make most folks think twice.

[Xusia]

<cough, cough!> I plan to build my entire 818 for less than that!

[GPZ10]

The swap wouldn't be too bad, but the $20k pricetag for the motor would make most folks think twice.

WAY too much for a motor, I think.

<cough, cough!> I plan to build my entire 818 for less than that!

That's what I was thinking.

[shinn497]

Plan A is to get the car built and dialed in for neutral handling. My 2600lb PRHT MX-5 was regularly beating WRXs and STIs at the autocross, with a much lower power to weight ratio. It's not because I'm a great driver (I'm average on a good day), it's because the car was balanced and precise in a way that bigger, heavier cars often aren't. If the 818 can be made as balanced as the MX-5 (I'm hoping I can make it a lot better), while also having 800 pounds less weight and an additional 70hp, I don't see why I'd ever need more at my current skill level.

Why isn't the ej207 cost effective. It is my favorite choice atm.

[projectrally]

Well, it is an affordable motor by most counts. You can get a low mileage one with all the accessories for about $5500 - $7500 these days. Make sure you get everything included - the turbo, intercooler, wiring harness, ECU, etc. A lot of times the importers pull off the good bits to sell separately.

That's not a horrible price if you're used to shopping for GM and Ford crate motors. But it's not affordable when you consider that you can get a whole running 02-05 WRX for that same $5500 - 7500 all day long. With the full car, you'll get everything you need to build the 818 and you'd still have a ton of parts to sell back to help recoup some cash.

You could probably build a car with an EJ207 for $20,000 if you were very careful about finding the best deal on parts. That's still relatively affordable, but I think the only way to build this car for the advertised 15K cost is to start with a running 02-05 Impreza or WRX. The 06-07 cars are still too expensive, unless you find a good deal on a salvage one.

[shinn497]

I agree. Actually I would go higher. I just talked to a vender from the NASIOC forum and the quoted the ej207 at 5k I think this was complete.

In truth, a jdm motor is a lot of hassle, especially in california. So I would expect the price to be high. My goal is to do a budget build initially and then upgrade later.

I have another question. I hear the ej207 doesn't really run well on 91 (cali ><), would it be possible to run e85 for better performance?

[Draco-REX]

I have another question. I hear the ej207 doesn't really run well on 91 (cali ><), would it be possible to run e85 for better performance?

I'm sure it'd love E85. But you'll need a bigger fuel pump and injectors, plus a tune because E85 requires around 30% more fuel than gas.

[Twinspool]

Megasquirt 3 can handle flex fuel dual mapping so you can run E85, 91, or any mixture in between. 30% more mass with E85 means correspondingly more mass driving the turbine. Hooray!

[projectrally]

I have another question. I hear the ej207 doesn't really run well on 91 (cali ><), would it be possible to run e85 for better performance?

Oh, that's good. That's something I wasn't even thinking about. Japanese fuel is available at a higher octane. They rate it differently, but it would still amount to about 95 octane using the US rating system.

The best we can get in ME is 91 octane. I was very angry the day 93 went away. But with 91 octane only, your best bet for a quick and easy solution to getting the car running smoothly is a USDM car with a motor and ECU already tuned to run on pump gas.

[Canadian818]

Does all 92-94 octane gasoline contain some ethanol? I have both 93 and 94 available but they both say "may contain up to 10% ethanol" at the pump. Doesn't mention it for 87 at the same station, and everywhere else that only sell up to 91 make no mention of it at all.