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Thread: Wish 2B 33 building

  1. #1
    Ol Skool
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    Wish 2B 33 building

    Ok, My stage 1 kit is still at factory five waiting for yet another storm to pass before Stewart can head my way. I'll have to put skis on it to get it up my driveway...
    Fed ex dropped off the wheels last week. I have two engines tore down and ready to go to the machine shop. Tranny decision pending.

    So I only ordered the go kart for a couple reasons. Wife said toy box is full and something else has to go and I haven't decided on a "theme" for the car. I like the looks of the full fenders with roof but my priority is the fattest, stickiest tires I can get on it. Solo cone racing isn't conducive to full fenders. I also am considering different nose and roof treatments aka some of VMAN's renderings.

    I also will be using non standard engine and driveline so I need some fab time with motor mounts, headers, etc. I'm hoping the chassis work will evolve into how I want to build the body. I like the soft springs and sway bar work some of the guys are doing. Seems like the right thing to do??
    So I need the Goldilocks kit with 3 options like the old revell models...

    First engine choice is a baby 291ci Desoto Hemi. Yes you read that correctly. I thought the Roush guy was going to flip out on me at the build school. Just for that I might even put a 34 Plymouth nose on it with a Fernando hood ornament!!

    So here I go, Hoping for delivery by the weekend. Wish me luck, call me crazy, but don't bend my dog tags!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member 68GT500MAN's Avatar
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    Sounds like a very interesting build will be underway soon. Keep on dreaming and make the project match!
    Doug

  3. #3
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    That's the great thing about these cars. The configurations are endless!
    Half the fun is dreaming (or staying up all night thinking about) what to do.
    I look forward to watching it come together.

  4. #4
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    Could be very pretty indeed.


  5. #5
    Ol Skool
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    That's pretty close! I'll probably mill the fins down on the O'Brien valve covers. Paint the block hemi orange. Start with a 4bbl manifold and go to FAST FI later. Sanderson headers unless I have to build my own. I've been known to adapt 318 front covers to these blocks and use competition eng motor plates. Tricks are in rotating assembly and camshaft. I have a couple billet roller cams from Don Johansen. One is mild for this build and the other one is for a different effort. Quick time bell housing with hydraulic clutch yada, yada.
    My time will be in playing with suspension and learning to drive the car hard. I'm new to turning left and right...

  6. #6
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    I'm glad I'm only about 40 miles from this build, I have to follow this one. Sounds very interesting.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    Could be very pretty indeed.
    As Martin just alluded to in the picture, it takes a lot of balls to put a Hemi in one of these no matter which Hemi you choose
    Dale Berry
    3rd gen Hemi 33
    7L/426

  8. #8
    Ol Skool
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    Thanks for the encouragement! I have a 68 barracuda coupe with a 354 and I believe that one was harder to fit the engine than this 33 will be. I had a spare engine on a mocked up K- frame to make headers for that one. My brother runs a late model charger in SCCA F stock so he has a 3rd gen hemi. I ran a friends 280zx a few times last year so that got me interested in sticky tires on all 4 corners. I just gotta be different so this 33 looked like the toy for me.
    I hope to get the "raw" build done in time to make some runs in the fall and the do the "radical" body sculpting next winter.

  9. #9
    Ol Skool
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    Build #640 is officially underway!
    IMG_20140315_154836_867.jpg

  10. #10
    Ol Skool
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    So of course I've got parts on backorder that I kind of wanted early, like the spindles and control arm bolts. Project 101... improvise, adapt, and conquer something else. I'll work on modified motor mounts, pedal box and the steering column. Kinda in a hurry to mock up the hemi and see where fitment issues arise. Wife and I are arguing about colors and such already. She wants me to go "Desoto Gold" with some other gold "accents" and I'm thinking lots of chrome, polished aluminum, and hemi orange accents. So powder coating is dependent on whether I go with a pre-WWII blue-gray satin two tone body or a charcoal satin. I may have a compromise solution that will work without body color commitment. Really need one of those digital coloring "books" for this.

  11. #11
    Ol Skool
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    IMG_20140315_131906_055.jpgIMG_20140319_191837_960.jpg

    Since I'm waiting on components from F5R I got out the sawzall and started mocking up one of the tranny options. Planning on first mock up of engine and tranny this weekend. Don't use my photos as an assembly guide. That tranny doesn't match the bell housing and that bell housing won't be the final configuration. Just getting centerlines, and basic alignment within 1/2" before I start putting serious coin into SFI components and hydraulic clutches. This is still in feasibility and aesthetics stage.

  12. #12
    Ol Skool
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    Still waiting on backordered parts...
    IMG_20140322_174412_202.jpg
    Set the mock up engine in to see how it might fit. Engine in photo is a tall deck Desoto Hemi. This sets the heads higher and wider than the 291 I plan to use. I set it on the ford 302 mounts just for establishing the crank centerline relative to the chassis. Looks like it is going to have plenty of room. The 291 will require cutting the top bolt off the F5 ford attachment point to clear the front cylinder header tubes. The tall deck engine might look better with the valve covers hanging over the front tube, but, it weighs considerably more both static and rotating assembly. The little 291 should be a better choice for this cars handling.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    IMG_20140322_174412_202.jpg
    Set the mock up engine in to see how it might fit. Engine in photo is a tall deck Desoto Hemi. This sets the heads higher and wider than the 291 I plan to use. I set it on the ford 302 mounts just for establishing the crank centerline relative to the chassis. Looks like it is going to have plenty of room. The 291 will require cutting the top bolt off the F5 ford attachment point to clear the front cylinder header tubes. The tall deck engine might look better with the valve covers hanging over the front tube, but, it weighs considerably more both static and rotating assembly. The little 291 should be a better choice for this cars handling.
    I had to cut off that top bolt and part of those gussets on my 3rd gen hemi for header clearance as well. By comparison my 6.1 is wider or longer than that 1st gen in your picture. My heads almost hang out over the frame right at the front corner. That corner of the head is right above the back tab for the upper control arm mounts. You have that engine nice and low but will the tranny let you keep it that low. On mine the tranny resting on the cab floor was the control point IF I wanted to keep the driveline angles at 1-2*
    Dale
    Hemi33

  14. #14
    Senior Member Boz1911's Avatar
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    This is going to be a cool build. Keep us posted for sure !!

  15. #15
    Ol Skool
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    Dale,

    You're correct on the driveline angle and engine setting low. Until I get the rear and front suspension loaded I have nothing to really use as a guide. I need to raise the tranny just a little more which will pick the front of the motor up 1/2 - 3/4". You mentioned your Gen 3 is a little longer which is my next check at the rack for pulley space which I should be ok on. Next week I'll position mounts differently and try the 291 block with the crank and pulleys in it. I should have some detailed photos of mounts at that point.
    I'll load a 354 Chrysler in it too just to have the photos for record.

    My biggest concern is the A833 side shifter won't be compatible with the tunnel or I won't like the wide gear ratio spread. TKO may still be in the future.
    Where are those spindles!!!

  16. #16
    Ol Skool
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    Called the factory and Spindles aren't due in until the end of May!! Given that the Frame went on order in January that's a little disappointing. Sounds like a pile of spindles are gonna be shipped late. These are unique to the 33 so I'll have to look into this a little.

  17. #17
    Ol Skool
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    Today I reconfigured the motor mounts and put the little hemi in. I wont need to cut the top bolts off the frame mounts now. This low deck motor sets completely different than the previous motor. I used a set of 360 4WD dodge truck mounts to mock it up on the ford mounts which are moved forward of the vertical tube. If I leave this as is I need to put a "Z" bracket from the upper control arm bracket to the upper mount hole and run a tube under the oil pan connecting the lower holes to stabilize the mounts. Not sure if this will be the final set up, but I'm happy with the position of the engine and tranny now. Actually surprised I could do it without more fabrication.
    This lets me move on to the steering gear and hanging the pedal assembly. Maybe I can even consider the power rack now.
    IMG_20140329_162405_008.jpg
    Sure would look nice with a little blower on it wouldn't it??

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    Today I reconfigured the motor mounts and put the little hemi in. I wont need to cut the top bolts off the frame mounts now. This low deck motor sets completely different than the previous motor. This lets me move on to the steering gear and hanging the pedal assembly. Maybe I can even consider the power rack now.
    Sure would look nice with a little blower on it wouldn't it??
    The dizzy is on the wrong end of the motor ;>)
    So the headers won't still be the biggest concern for those mounts? It looks like the front primaries will still cut right through the FF frame gusset.
    I found it a lot easier to put the power steering motor up on the firewall to avoid conflict with the oil pan and the headers on mine.
    Love the pics
    Dale

  19. #19
    Ol Skool
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    The dizzy don't get in da way there! So triangular geometry (trigonometry?) made a difference in this application. I originally thought the lower deck height would be an issue, but when I got the front up 2 degrees with the tranny at the correct height it became obvious that with the heads inboard about 3/4" from the "big" motor I had more room. Keep in mind I probably will use small port heads and tight radius header tubes. This motor only needs 1 5/8" header tubes. Also these early heads point the exhaust down more than the later versions. My real challenge is selecting appropriate tranny and clutch options. I'm trying to keep rotating mass low and let the little "feller" rev up.
    I have to order the SFI bell to get the foot box fit up. I have the "truck" bell starter bump up against the foot box and I don't want to go forward with the engine.

    Couple pics of a tight fit...
    Attachment 27434
    Attachment 27435

  20. #20
    Ol Skool
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    Having a beer cooler in the garage may not be the best idea...

    IMG_20140427_192111_115.jpg

  21. #21
    Ol Skool
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    To be clear... I am not putting a 392 with a batwing air cleaner in this chassis...permanently. The aero effect of the batwing isn't conducive to Bonneville speeds...

  22. #22
    Ol Skool
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    Fed ex brought me spindles and a wiring harness today. Time to quit playing with motors and get serious...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    Fed ex brought me spindles and a wiring harness today. Time to quit playing with motors and get serious...
    You should consider flipping the steering links side to side. I really think it is part of the answer to bumpsteer but so far no one has confirmed it.
    I flipped mine but since I changed everything but the spindles I don't know if it will work for you.
    DB
    Hemi33

  24. #24
    Ol Skool
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    I don't have them in front of me. I'm assuming that moves the centerline up? I thought as long as I didn't put too much oil in the air cleaner I could keep it between the cones.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    I don't have them in front of me. I'm assuming that moves the centerline up? I thought as long as I didn't put too much oil in the air cleaner I could keep it between the cones.
    Mine are at the painters but I think I have a picture of them showing the small chamfer needed to flip them. From memory the offset down is less than an inch but you double that when flipped. WOW oil bath air cleaners, not sure I should even admit knowing what that is. ;>)
    Dale

  26. #26
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    An oil-bath air-cleaner might be cool at Pebble Beach, but not on a beaching Hot Rod

  27. #27
    Ol Skool
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    IMG_20140706_104528_916 (1024x577).jpg
    It's been awhile since I posted here. Spring brought a bazillion other projects but I managed to slap an 8.8 together and order tires. Missed a buy on a T5 and still need to get motor to the machine shop...
    More boxes empty than full anyhow.

    IMG_20140705_172147_346 (1280x1266).jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by erlihemi; 07-09-2014 at 08:22 PM. Reason: resized

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by erlihemi View Post
    IMG_20140705_172058_525.jpg
    still need to get motor to the machine shop...
    IMG_20140706_104528_916.jpg
    I lost track during the Hemi shuffle, which motor did you decide to use?
    DB

  29. #29
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    erlihemi, Try lowering the res on your pics to a max of 1600x1600 before attaching them to your posts.

    Then they will appear like this, instead of just a link:
    IMG_4419 (Medium).JPG

    Better yet, create a pic album and link to them directly.

    Here's a link to your album gallery:
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?&u=12136

    Create an album, upload some pics, then copy/paste the BB [IMG] code on the screen when viewing the pic in your album into your post and it will appear full size, like this:




    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  30. #30
    Ol Skool
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    DB I won't commit to the motor until its fired and cam broke in!! But 291 is still the plan...

  31. #31
    Ol Skool
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    So I've been negligent on keeping this post updated. I have selected a close ratio TKO for a tranny, Aluminum flywheel, and ordered stage 2 of the kit. Engine needs to go to the machinist and I need to fabricate exhaust before I rivet the floor. It will keep me from getting bored this winter.

  32. #32
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    We have a number of parts to enhance your build. Check us out.

    Tim Whittaker

  33. #33
    Ol Skool
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    Tim, Nice stuff, well thought out. Thanks for the info.

  34. #34
    Ol Skool
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    IMG_20150104_144032_805 (640x361).jpg
    I played around with moving the pedal box towards the passenger side. Gained an inch, so I may be able to make a 3 toe rest for my left foot if I wear ballerina shoes. To do this required shifting the column over about 1/2" also. Notching the tunnel may follow.

  35. #35
    Ol Skool
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    BTW, I noticed the button head bolts supplied with the pedal box are not long enough to fully engage the Nyloc nuts. kind of useless to supply Nyloc nuts and not have adequate thread protrusion.

  36. #36
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    I like the 'out of the box' thinking

  37. #37
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    I played with mine quite a bit. if you're moving the pedals over (there is plenty of room between the tranny and the brake pedal to adjust things)
    it helped me to make it so the pedal set up can be removed after the car is built.
    I changed my master cylinder sizes after the first season of driving!

  38. #38
    Ol Skool
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhrobichaud58 View Post
    I played with mine quite a bit. if you're moving the pedals over (there is plenty of room between the tranny and the brake pedal to adjust things)
    it helped me to make it so the pedal set up can be removed after the car is built.
    I changed my master cylinder sizes after the first season of driving!
    I'll feel like I've built the car 3 times by the time all the body work is done! I wanted to move the pedal box so I could finalize the column position and have a glimmer of hope for a foot rest. The Hemi doesn't allow for the electric steering to mount as designed so if I go with it I have to move it closer to the firewall. I almost went with a floor mounted pedal box but that creates other issues. What master cylinder sizes did you have to go to? Do you have six piston calipers?

  39. #39
    Ol Skool
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    Still building one rivet at time. Sorry, Haven't kept this post up to date. Exhaust is in back to differential. Floor pans and Boyd tank installed. Kirkey seat positioned. Custom pistons from Ross enroute for the 291. Working on door brackets, tunnel, and throttle position. Nothing picture worthy yet.

  40. #40
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    I heard you have a pretty good turn out at the cruise-in in Vestal on Saturday nights? Once that gets going I'm going to make the trip down with the '33, maybe I could take a peek at your build? Enjoy our "early spring"....

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