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Thread: Front fuel Tank Ideas

  1. #1
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    Front fuel Tank Ideas

    Hi Guys I dont have my kit yet , available date is April 26.
    So I am wondering if there is enough room in front of the fire wall to build a custom Fuel tank, Large enough to hold at least 10 useable gallons?

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    For the "R" I looked at this trying to get a fuel cell built and we tried many ways, you can get a tank in the triangle area (as there would be issues using the other areas and getting useable fuel in those areas) but the most we could get was 1800 cubic inches and that's about 7.5 gals and of that maybe 6-6.5 gals would be useable. I'm not too keen on having a tank up front racing. I don't know if the S is different, I imagine so as you don't have the front roll cage hoop and that may make a difference
    Last edited by FFRSpec72; 04-16-2014 at 06:01 PM.
    Tony Nadalin
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    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Check Xusia's thread, he's working on a design. He might have started another thread here to, but his build thread says some stuff about it.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
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    I looked at the 818e build thread at the battery storage box in the front. With the batteries he has, the calculated cubic inches was a bout the same at 1789 Cubic inches. Unless we can go higher in height, but this is at the bottom of the holes in the fire wall for the shift cables. Thanks for the leads. Don

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC7492 View Post
    I looked at the 818e build thread at the battery storage box in the front. With the batteries he has, the calculated cubic inches was a bout the same at 1789 Cubic inches. Unless we can go higher in height, but this is at the bottom of the holes in the fire wall for the shift cables. Thanks for the leads. Don
    Consistent with what we came up with, that would not get me through a 40 min race
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
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    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
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    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Hi and welcome DMC7492! I have designed a tank - and a method of installation (from the bottom) - that holds ~10 gallons. It fits nicely in the space and is the same 10" in height as the FFR tank so you can use the FFR solution for the fuel pump and sending unit. There is space to go as high as 12" (maybe more with some additional work), which would hold about ~12 gallons. I got side tracked working out my seating arrangement or I'd have a template to show you. I'll post all my work on this when I get to it, but if you want to know more before then, I'm happy to share what I've done/learned over the phone. Just PM me with a phone number.
    Have you seen the 818 Registry on Google Maps?? https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=...a=0&dg=feature

    Want your 818 added to the Registry? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zmF...rNCY4/viewform

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xusia View Post
    Hi and welcome DMC7492! I have designed a tank - and a method of installation (from the bottom) - that holds ~10 gallons. It fits nicely in the space and is the same 10" in height as the FFR tank so you can use the FFR solution for the fuel pump and sending unit. There is space to go as high as 12" (maybe more with some additional work), which would hold about ~12 gallons. I got side tracked working out my seating arrangement or I'd have a template to show you. I'll post all my work on this when I get to it, but if you want to know more before then, I'm happy to share what I've done/learned over the phone. Just PM me with a phone number.
    Hi Brian,
    I'm right there with you on the front tank design.
    14w x 18L x 12h with a small corner cut off for the steering joint will give you 12.8 gallons (12.0 usable)
    Bob

    Edit: the final tank end up being 14 gallons if filled to the brim.
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-10-2014 at 01:10 AM.

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    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

    Frank

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    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RRC-12-Gallo...-/251237610432

    Would something like this fit and cradled from underneath?

    Frank

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    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Tank.JPG

    Would something like this work? Its 12"x18"x12" would this fit from underneath?

    Frank

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianYank View Post
    At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

    Frank
    I' a tad over 6 foot, I moved my rear firewall back 4.5" and used a 10 degree layback seat, so I have about 8" of room over the stock configurations, I have a 32" inseam and I can put my legs flat (straight)t out in my 818
    Tony Nadalin
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    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
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    818R Build in progress

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    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianYank View Post
    At 6'4" I need the extra space and its one of my concerns for this kit. Im really interested in the idea of a front tank. So by removing the tank from behind the seats are you sitting straight up to get the extra leg room?

    Frank
    Hi Frank
    My son is 6'3" 260 lbs.
    I did a custom front tank.
    The 12"x18"x12" tank you mentioned above would fit with no problems. You do have to cut out the battery tray bars and replace them to get the strength back. I review this with FFR before I did it.

    Check out post 145 on my Build thread for more info. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8S-Build/page4
    Bob

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-10-2014 at 02:00 AM.

  13. #13
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Bob, Thx that looks great very nice. Never 100% safe but I actually like the idea better than the tank next to the motor and gives better protection to the driver.

    Thx, Frank

  14. #14
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Tony, I feel comfortable now about fitment, your info on MKII Challenge Car vs. 818 R, can you fit was very helpful.

    Thx, Frank

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    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianYank View Post
    Bob, Thx that looks great very nice. Never 100% safe but I actually like the idea better than the tank next to the motor and gives better protection to the driver.

    Thx, Frank
    Just remember, in a R you are moving the cell out of the cage area (so less protection), also no matter were you place the cell I would suggest you put a rear firewall in (between cell and engine). I'm sure you will weigh all the pros/con and come up with the best solution for your build and usage.
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
    2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
    2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
    FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
    818R Build in progress

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    Senior Member Goldwing's Avatar
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    Just food for thought. With the Boyd tank, the firewall is moved back about 3 inches and results in a relatively steep seat back angle. Moving the firewall further might get uncomfortable in the long run. I forget who, but someone was working on a pedal box mod to move the pedals forward a bit. In the end, that may be a more comfortable a solution. I point that out, to keep that in mind as you consider front fuel tanks that could preclude the option of a pedal box mod. I'm just short of 6' with a 32" inseam. I'm pretty comfortable with aftermarket Recaro seats, Boyd tank. (W/3" firewall move), no pedal box mod for reference.
    Rich

    818S in progress. 2007 WRX sedan donor.
    Powered up: 7-8-14, First Start: 7-20-14, Go kart: 8-19-14

  17. #17
    Member CanadianYank's Avatar
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    Got to look at the kit today! "Triathletedave" Dave invited me over to see his 818s build and nope I'm not fitting in a stock configuration... So my tank is going in the front. If only they stretched the kit about 4". I would recommend any big and tall guy to test fit first...

    Was very impressed with the kits build quality and was equally impressed with Dave's progress with the kit. Thanks again Dave!

    Frank
    The most important things in the world have been accomplished by people who don't give up and have just kept on trying...

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    Hi guys I am making progress on the front tank, now to mount the filler tube. I need a picture of some body's right front fender area similar to this picture, I need to figure if the filler pipe should run below the frame tube or above and at which angle to aim at the gas cap in the fender. Behind the wheel and in front of the door.
    Can some one. With their body installed snap a few pictures of this area. To help the gang? Thanks Don
    image.jpgimage.jpg

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    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Hopefully these photos are helpful even though the windshield is mounted.
    2.jpg3.jpg1.jpg
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    How many gallons in your tank? DMC7492
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

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    Harley818's Avatar
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    Xusia did one that was similar and I seem to remember 11-12 gallons. his was installed from the bottom. I assume DMC is installing from the bottom as well?
    I'm still thinking about this option. Maybe as a later upgrade.
    Harley
    Bought 2002 Donor Jan 2014
    First Start Jan 18, 2015
    First Drive Feb 14, 2015

  22. #22
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley818 View Post
    Xusia did one that was similar and I seem to remember 11-12 gallons. his was installed from the bottom. I assume DMC is installing from the bottom as well?
    I'm still thinking about this option. Maybe as a later upgrade.
    Mine is 14.0 filled to the brim. 13 usable.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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    Hi guys, the pictures were what I was looking for. I went underneath the frame for the fill tube, just pressure tested and now to cut the hole for the sending unit and the aeromotive fuel pump.
    My calculated volume is 12.8 gallons. However there is internal baffling so it will probably come in around 12 gallons.
    It does install from the bottom an remove able frame and a aluminum plate are underneath the tank.image.jpgimage.jpg

  24. #24
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Looks very good Don. I'm going to copy your under tank steel. I was just was going to mount a large trapezoid plate. Your steel (M Bracket) looks much better in compression.
    Keep thinking outside the box.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I'm going to copy your under tank steel. I was just was going to mount a large trapezoid plate.
    Bob
    Hi Bob this is the plate I put between the tank and the steel M.
    image.jpg

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    Okay here it is mounted in place and ready to plumb and wire image.jpgimage.jpg

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    Senior Member Flamshackle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC7492 View Post
    Okay here it is mounted in place and ready to plumb and wire image.jpgimage.jpg
    LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.
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    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamshackle View Post
    LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.
    Just keep in mind that with the stock location, weight distribution changes little with fuel load. With a front tank, there's a bigger difference in F/R% between full and empty tank... could have an effect on handling balance.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Flamshackle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    Just keep in mind that with the stock location, weight distribution changes little with fuel load. With a front tank, there's a bigger difference in F/R% between full and empty tank... could have an effect on handling balance.
    good baffling would eliminate that concern
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    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamshackle View Post
    good baffling would eliminate that concern
    I'm not talking about fuel sloshing unbder G's... it's the weight difference between a full and empty tank. In the middle of the car the weight distribution won't be significantly affected by how much fuel is in the tank, but when the tank is between the front wheels, the wet vs dry weight distribution will be shifted significantly forward. It's probably not an issue for a street/autocross car, but for long/endurance racing, I would imagine that location could pose issues with trying to balance handling as the front end lightens up as you burn through the tank.

  31. #31
    Senior Member billjr212's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamshackle View Post
    LOVE THIS! IMO the best mod I have seen so far. I will definitely try and do this. The biggest benefit is the weight distribution advantage.
    This is a modification primarily for space considerations for taller drivers. From what I can tell, the adjustment to weight distribution would be a negative, if anything. Seems fairly well established that a little rear bias (around 60%) is better. This also moves the tank from the center of the car to directly between the front tires (thus increasing the moment of inertia). Again, not saying this is going to be huge and there are lots of other factors, just saying it shouldn't be considered as a performance improving modification.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    I'm not talking about fuel sloshing unbder G's... it's the weight difference between a full and empty tank. In the middle of the car the weight distribution won't be significantly affected by how much fuel is in the tank, but when the tank is between the front wheels, the wet vs dry weight distribution will be shifted significantly forward. It's probably not an issue for a street/autocross car, but for long/endurance racing, I would imagine that location could pose issues with trying to balance handling as the front end lightens up as you burn through the tank.
    Since I looked at this a long time ago.

    The CG of my front tank is only a 8" behind the front axle.
    My front tank holds 14 gallons x 6.3 = 88 lbs
    The front end of the 818 is coming in about 700 lbs without battery.
    So 88/700 = 12.5% (+/-6% from 1/2 tank) load change on the front axle.
    88 lbs on my car will change the ride height by 3/16"

    Our front axle load also changes by 100 lbs with me sitting in the passenger seat.
    Bob

    PS: My tank is fully foamed to prevent sloshing.
    .
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  33. #33
    Senior Member Flamshackle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billjr212 View Post
    This is a modification primarily for space considerations for taller drivers. From what I can tell, the adjustment to weight distribution would be a negative, if anything. Seems fairly well established that a little rear bias (around 60%) is better. This also moves the tank from the center of the car to directly between the front tires (thus increasing the moment of inertia). Again, not saying this is going to be huge and there are lots of other factors, just saying it shouldn't be considered as a performance improving modification.
    I am 6 ft 4 so that is another win
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    I did a search on front fuel tanks. Some one already has done this...Bumping thread there seems to be another front tank thread started but these might need to be combined.

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