Sponaugle's H6 EZ30R 818S

[sponaugle]

I did a few quick measurements:



I used a jack to lift the wheel up (with the spring removed from strut) to the maximum high position. Once in this position I turned the wheel to both sides lock to lock.



As I expected, with the wheel up there is more space between the frame and the tire.

I used a jack to put the suspension at what *might* be the height.



Can anyone who has their car on the ground tell me what the distance is marked with the red line? I'm just looking for a general idea of what the 'level' position is.



I played a bit with the upper adjustments and started with about 1.5 degrees of negative camber. I don't have turn plates so I guessed at 20 degrees of wheel turn to get caster.



Caster was about 4 degrees negative. A stock STI is around 3.5 degrees.

Obviously this is just a rough measurement.. I am curious what other people have started with. It *seems* like it would be hard to get much more caster, and perhaps only -2 degrees of camber.

Jeff

[sponaugle]

Thanks Jeff

BTW: I updated the spreadsheet btw and didn't give it a different name, so I would download it again to get the latest corrections. (including just now I changed the ECU desc to say STI).

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Jeff
This was in the 818R watkins glen october 2013
Wilwood 13" front and rear brakes
Standard monotube Koni shocks that come with the R
400lb front 500lb rear springs
Front end is -3 camber +3.5 caster and 1/16" toe out
Rear end is -2.5 camber...

[Frank818]

These tires... just amazing...

Where did you get that camber/caster tool?

[sponaugle]

These tires... just amazing...

Where did you get that camber/caster tool?

http://www.amazon.com/Joes-Racing-28...s=camber+gauge

[nuisance]

Jeff

I also did a quick few measurements yesterday on my R. I was able to get 4 degrees castor, but only -1 camber (it will be easy to get more with a little modding).

Could you take a look at bumpsteer while you're at it? I was getting huge (2 degrees) readings from ride height to 2" compression. This was with the Baer bumpsteer kit installed. I'd be curious to see where an S lands.

Thanks, John

I didn't mean to hijack your build thread, and so I took my report to the "R" discussion thread on steering.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-Steering-Rack

[sponaugle]

Jeff
I also did a quick few measurements yesterday on my R. I was able to get 4 degrees castor, but only -1 camber (it will be easy to get more with a little modding).
Could you take a look at bumpsteer while you're at it? I was getting huge (2 degrees) readings from ride height to 2" compression. This was with the Baer bumpsteer kit installed. I'd be curious to see where an S lands.
Thanks, John
I didn't mean to hijack your build thread, and so I took my report to the "R" discussion thread on steering.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-Steering-Rack

No worries John.. it is an interesting topic. I did some quick measurements, and from full drop to full lift single wheel toe increased a bit over 1/4" in at the rotor (not tire). As the wheel goes up it toes in. From level to max compressed it was about half that. Given this is one wheel, total toe would be twice that, or a bit over 1/2" at the rotor. That is about 2,2 degrees total toe in from lowest to highest (both wheels), or 1.1 degrees toe in on each wheel.

Here are some pictures of the suspension in three positions:







I drew some very approximate lines to show the UCA, LCA, and Steering link lines. In theory for zero bump steer the lines should intersect at the same point. If the steering line is intersecting below the CA intersections the car should bump steer in (toe in)... and indeed that is what the picture shows.

I also measured the camber as the wheel went from lowest to highest:



Dotted line is a linear interpolation.

At ride height (or somewhere close to that) I have it set to about -2 degrees camber and about 4 caster.

Jeff

[Mechie3]

I made a spacer for my steering rack to extend one side so that the inner tie rod joints were both centered on the front control arm bolt axis.

[RM1SepEx]

Craig, They fixed that rack offset issue but I'm not sure at what chassis #. Early chassis they cheated to one side should have additional bumpsteer...

[Frank818]

How can I tell if it's fixed?
I can tell I can easily adjust the toe with perfectly equal length steering boots.

BTW Jeff, how did you manage to compress the suspension without lifting the frame? Very early after I compress the suspension, it stops and the chassis lifts, cuz it's too light.

[nuisance]

No worries John.. it is an interesting topic. I did some quick measurements, and from full drop to full lift single wheel toe increased a bit over 1/4" in at the rotor (not tire). As the wheel goes up it toes in. From level to max compressed it was about half that. Given this is one wheel, total toe would be twice that, or a bit over 1/2" at the rotor. That is about 2,2 degrees total toe in from lowest to highest (both wheels), or 1.1 degrees toe in on each wheel.

Here are some pictures of the suspension in three positions:







I drew some very approximate lines to show the UCA, LCA, and Steering link lines. In theory for zero bump steer the lines should intersect at the same point. If the steering line is intersecting below the CA intersections the car should bump steer in (toe in)... and indeed that is what the picture shows.

I also measured the camber as the wheel went from lowest to highest:



Dotted line is a linear interpolation.

At ride height (or somewhere close to that) I have it set to about -2 degrees camber and about 4 caster.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks. I was curious about the "S" versus the "R". It seems the "S" is going to need some bumpsteer work as well.

Remember, when you draw those lines, they need to go through the pivot points, and not just follow the arm. The arm could be omega shaped and it wouldn't matter, it is all about the pivots. The LCA ends up way off if you use the arm itself.

Thanks for the camber curve too. I was seeing something like that, but I need to turn down the turnbuckles in the upper arms so I can start with -3 or so, then run the curve. It is a long virtual swing arm though, so it should be OK.

[Mechie3]

Craig, They fixed that rack offset issue but I'm not sure at what chassis #. Early chassis they cheated to one side should have additional bumpsteer...

Yes, they fixed the uneven bump steer, but the distance between the inner tie rod pivots is still less then that distance between the front suspension arm pivots.

[Wayne Presley]

BTW Jeff, how did you manage to compress the suspension without lifting the frame? Very early after I compress the suspension, it stops and the chassis lifts, cuz it's too light.

Frank, notice that there are no springs on the shocks...

[STiPWRD]

Jeff, any chance you know the pins required to reflash an 02 wrx ECU?

[Frank818]

Frank, notice that there are no springs on the shocks...

Awesome catch, that's why. Tnx Wayne.

[tango68ss]

The second owner had switched the car over to a ViPEC stand alone ECU, replaced the doors, hood, and trunk with carbon fiber parts, and left the engine and transmission just as Jeff Perrin had built it The car only has 20,000 miles on it, with about 5k on the EZ30R. It makes about 600whp and 560 lb-ft of torque with the 4088 at a medium boost level as Jeff Perrin tuned it.



Here is the engine removed from the car on an engine stand. It currently has a twin scroll manifold with a GT35R, although I plan on going back to the GT4088 that Jeff had originally used.




818 Goal:

I’m building an 818S, so this will be registered street car. My 02 WRX is my dedicated track car, I have an 08 STI with ~500whp that is my daily driver (especially in the rain), a twin-turbo 2006 GTO that is my' I have no traction' car, and a new 2014 GT-R that is my 10 sec street car. So…. For the 818 I am going to try and build the fastest 0-60 and ¼ mile acceleration 818S. Given the power output of the EZ30R (~600whp), and the weight of the 818 (1950 lbs with the heavier H6), I think a high 9 second time is reasonable with the right tires, and perhaps mid 10s on a street friendly tire. So.. that is my goal.

I’m doing the build in my shop at my house, which is helpful as I can do small amounts of work at a time and leave everything setup… and I have an 18 month old baby so time is already constrained! I have a lift in the shop, although that won’t really be needed for this build.



I’ll be tearing down the rest of the 06 STI in prep for the arrival of the kit. I would like to have ABS working, so I plan on moving those pieces over. I am using the STI drivetrain including the hubs and brakes as well as the 6-speed transmission. I have a spare 6-speed that I am going to have custom gears made for once I get everything moving along. To get a decent ¼ mile time I need taller gears. Oh.. and a RaceLogic Traction Control setup (as per http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...ol-for-the-818)

Jeff,

I cannot wait to see this EZ30 in your 818! Impressive! For you guys wondering what this sick engine came out of... well here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCu2MLqPcQ0

[Brando]

You know Mick the ginge? Man with guys like that in your inner circle I expect an insane 818 coming from you

[sponaugle]

Jeff, thanks. I was curious about the "S" versus the "R". It seems the "S" is going to need some bumpsteer work as well.

Remember, when you draw those lines, they need to go through the pivot points, and not just follow the arm. The arm could be omega shaped and it wouldn't matter, it is all about the pivots. The LCA ends up way off if you use the arm itself.

Thanks for the camber curve too. I was seeing something like that, but I need to turn down the turnbuckles in the upper arms so I can start with -3 or so, then run the curve. It is a long virtual swing arm though, so it should be OK.

Thanks. I did a quick new set of lines on one of the pictures:



They are much closer together now.

Jeff,

I cannot wait to see this EZ30 in your 818! Impressive! For you guys wondering what this sick engine came out of... well here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCu2MLqPcQ0

Thanks! It has been a fun build so far.

That video is hilarious! I am going to have to give Jeff a hard time on Monday. I have those wheels in the attic of my shop.. they are just too ugly to keep looking at!

You know Mick the ginge? Man with guys like that in your inner circle I expect an insane 818 coming from you

Yes... Mick was part of the PDXTuning gang so I've know him for a long time. He has a very cool yellow WRX wagon track machine with a dry sump setup.

[sponaugle]

Update: Pedal Cluster

I installed the Replica Parts master brake cylinder re-locator:



I had to trim the top bolt a bit, and notch the pedal cluster to make room for the nut.



I also did a bit of triming on the pedal cluster so it would not interfere with the chassis. ( above the clutch switch)



The Accelerator pedal from the 06 STI doesn't look like the DBW one in the manual. The bolt holes are almost vertical, not diagonal.



I made my own mounting bracket using a piece of 90 degree angle aluminum. Here it is taped into place for test fitting.



The position turned out great. it is very similar in spacing to the stock WRX and STI. You can't tell from this picture, but the accelerator is slightly behind the clutch and brake pedal.

[sponaugle]

I also got the radiator installed.



I need some upper brackets. I have the rori lower mounts which work great. Craig I think you make those cool replacement brackets right? Is there some measurement you need first?

Jeff

[Frank818]

Jeff, the gas pedal you show from the manual is the CABLE pedal from earlier models (02-04 I think, or 02-05). There are other pages for the DBW.

If I recall the upper rad mounts from Craig are all the same and do work with Rori's lower brackets, if I remember the upper rad mounts are adjustable or something. Someone will explain better.

[sponaugle]

Jeff, the gas pedal you show from the manual is the CABLE pedal from earlier models (02-04 I think, or 02-05). There are other pages for the DBW.

If I recall the upper rad mounts from Craig are all the same and do work with Rori's lower brackets, if I remember the upper rad mounts are adjustable or something. Someone will explain better.

That page just happened to be open as I was checking to see if the cable pedal was different. The 05-06 DBW pedal looks like this:



You can see the bolt holes are diagonal, not straight like the STI pedal. I assume that Kurt has also had the same issue since he is also using an STI donor. Either way it is an easy fix.

Unrelated to this, I made a small change to my bugeye EZ30R and took it for a drive. Something is just not right...



Jeff

[Wayne Presley]

That page just happened to be open as I was checking to see if the cable pedal was different. The 05-06 DBW pedal looks like this:



You can see the bolt holes are diagonal, not straight like the STI pedal. I assume that Kurt has also had the same issue since he is also using an STI donor. Either way it is an easy fix.

Unrelated to this, I made a small change to my bugeye EZ30R and took it for a drive. Something is just not right...



Jeff

That didn't sound like 9000 rpm to me...

[sponaugle]

That didn't sound like 9000 rpm to me...

Bingo. I flashed a new image onto the PIC I built for converting the RPM pulses from 3 per revolution to 2 per revolution, but accidentally disabled it... So that was more like 6700 rpm. I have a new converter I built to put in that also does speedo correction so it will be spot on to 150mph, plus do the usual 3-2 rpm conversion as well as drive some shift lights.

The sad part is that even with all the gizmo and with the EZ30R, my GTR just walks it:




Jeff

[sponaugle]

I did a test fit of the radiator tubes (from Breeze):











See anything obviously wrong/stupid?

Oh, and I spent a little time getting a new shelf system for my little 'electronics lab'.. nothing fancy.. it was a mess before:



It feels good to get stuff organized.

Jeff

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Jeff, all looks great. Especially the lab.
I need to take time to clean up my messes.
One thing I see on your car that is unusual is the coolant exit pipe tube. I don't think anyone else has taken it through the frame above the gas tank.
I don't see a problem except the pipe might short out the terminals on the fuel level sender.
The tube on the passenger side of the car might be to high and interfere with the door area.
Bob

[K3LAG]

Your passenger side tube needs to be lower and go around the frame like the drivers side. The side pod won't fit on the car with it that high. I believe the manual says it can be no more than about 5" from the bottom of the frame.

Larry

[sponaugle]

Hey Jeff, all looks great. Especially the lab.
I need to take time to clean up my messes.
One thing I see on your car that is unusual is the coolant exit pipe tube. I don't think anyone else has taken it through the frame above the gas tank.
I don't see a problem except the pipe might short out the terminals on the fuel level sender.
The tube on the passenger side of the car might be to high and interfere with the door area.
Bob

Your passenger side tube needs to be lower and go around the frame like the drivers side. The side pod won't fit on the car with it that high. I believe the manual says it can be no more than about 5" from the bottom of the frame.
Larry

Thanks guys! I'll move it and see how it fits.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

This is Michael Everson tube on that side.DSC05914_zpsde80dc9d.jpg

[nuisance]

Just put mine on the other day...mine looks like Bob's in the back passenger side. I got the wrong pipe for driver's front, so I'm waiting for the right one. Your driver's side rear isn't hitting the engine at the right angle. Maybe you got a wrong pipe too?

[K3LAG]

Just put mine on the other day...mine looks like Bob's in the back passenger side. I got the wrong pipe for driver's front, so I'm waiting for the right one. Your driver's side rear isn't hitting the engine at the right angle. Maybe you got a wrong pipe too?

They changed the design of that pipe to accommodate the fuel filler outlet on the Factory Five tank. The previous pipe, without the extra bend, only works with the Boyd tank.

Larry

[Frank818]

Jeff which side you installed your rad? Something's wrong on mine, ok I have the earlier version with the inlet on the top side, not top middle, but is yours lower and top mounts on the rad looking like mine?
Not even sure what is the top and bottom.

2014-08-04 12.15.29.jpg2014-08-04 12.15.51.jpg

[sponaugle]

I got my eastwood flare tool today.

Critique my work:


This is the flare I made using the 3/16 OP.1 and OP.2 Die (45 degrees double flare)


These are the lines that were sent by factory five, Labeled 3/16s Inv Flare


Comparison of the two.


Side shot of the two..
The look different. The factory lines look like the inner part is machined. Am I doing something wrong?

Jeff

[sponaugle]

Jeff which side you installed your rad? Something's wrong on mine, ok I have the earlier version with the inlet on the top side, not top middle, but is yours lower and top mounts on the rad looking like mine?
Not even sure what is the top and bottom.

Hmm. that is an odd radiator. Mine had posts sticking out of the top and bottom. I'll take a picture.

Jeff

[Frank818]

Hmm. that is an odd radiator. Mine had posts sticking out of the top and bottom. I'll take a picture.

Oh freakin crap. There goes some more custom brackets for me.

Hey your flares look like a trumpet, taken with such high close-up. Very nice. What sound they make when you blow through them? lolll

[Sgt.Gator]

Jeff which side you installed your rad? Something's wrong on mine, ok I have the earlier version with the inlet on the top side, not top middle, but is yours lower and top mounts on the rad looking like mine?
Not even sure what is the top and bottom.

2014-08-04 12.15.29.jpg2014-08-04 12.15.51.jpg

The bottom of the radiator has the drain ****, the black plastic plug on the right.

[sponaugle]

Oh freakin crap. There goes some more custom brackets for me.

Hey your flares look like a trumpet, taken with such high close-up. Very nice. What sound they make when you blow through them? lolll

I did some more practice fittings, and have them looking better. I'm using a champfer bit to prep the inside and outside a tiny amount. That makes the fold over smooth and crack free.

I have to admit I was skeptical about the Eastwood Flare Tool, but yes, it is worth the money. It is so easy to use, and very very consistent. I am using Nickel-Copper lines which seem a bit easier to flare, and they are much easier to bend. If you are doing your own lines, give them a try.

Jeff

[Wayne Presley]

Jeff,
Try more pressure on the second flare. I've done some flares with my flaring tool on the NiCo tubing and they look OEM.

[Aero STI]

Jeff, you fell off the map for a bit.

If you're looking for a good DIY method of gauging, I would recommend the various displays from 4D systems. Here is what I'm playing with at the moment.



They're incredibly configurable and have I2C, SPI, plus additional GPIO. I believe they've been mentioned elsewhere on this forum, but it may have been a different forum.

http://www.4dsystems.com.au/products

[Aero STI]

And here are the 4D systems uLCD-220RD in action.