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Thread: Thall818's Father/Son build thread Chassis # 200

  1. #1
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    Thall818's Father/Son build thread Chassis # 200

    After waiting almost a year, my kit arrived yesterday. Chassis #200. Here is the plan

    The car - 818S

    The donor - 2002 WRX Wagon Stage 2

    Ordered Options - powder coat


    The plan

    Basically a street car. Cruise into Cars & Coffee, etc. I don't see track time in my future. Three kids and all that goes with it.

    Engine - considering upgraded turbo and fuel system

    Interior - May try to use the center console out of the wagon. The seats in my donor are gray leather and were just done not long ago, with seat heaters. I don't like the weight, but I like the price. I will try to sell them and get lightweight seats.

    ABS - on the fence. May not be a bad idea for a street car. I'm not afraid of custom brake lines.

    Wheels - Kosei K1-TS 17x8 45mm offset. Came with the donor. Too nice not to use. May add 5mm wheel spacers. Federal 595 tires are in the budget.


    The builders

    Myself - I've been restoring and working on old Fords and British cars for going on 30 years. This is my first experience with anything with an ECU or kit related.

    My Sons - One is 12, the other is 9. The 12 year old is excited. The 9 year old isn't quite there yet. My thought is to get them involved in the principles, which is why I chose the kit. Restoration work is much different. Not a bad place to land, but not an easy place to start. My daughter is 7. She's a little young, but I'm sure she'll pop out on occasion and want to help. Mainly, I expect it to be me and the oldest. We'll see.

    The kit will be at home in the garage, the parts and donor will be at work. I'll do the part removal, cleanup, & refinish at work, and assemble with them at home.

    We have a busy summer planned so progress will be slow out of the gate. Hopefully we'll be in high gear by Fall.

  2. #2
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum! You and the kids are embarking on a true adventure, one that they will always remember!

    Did you know that FFR did a news release when they manufactured your chassis?
    https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...s-car-chassis/

    It's pretty cool to have the assembly team and Dave Smith pose next to your kit! Not too many get that little bonus:


    I'm looking forward to following your build. Are you going to the FFR open house in a few weeks?


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


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    Senior Member 68GT500MAN's Avatar
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    Looks like a great plan and project for the "team" to work on. Congratulations on the delivery!
    Doug

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    Thanks guys. I can't wait to get going.

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    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Congrats on the delivery! I'm looking forward to following your build thread.

  6. #6
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    Out with the old, in with the new. I brought home the 818 on Fathers' Day and loaded out the tiger and put it in storage this morning. I'm still waiting till it gets a little hotter before I begin (LOL), bit at least it's in position.

    818 in position.JPGPic1.JPG

  7. #7
    Senior Member riptide motorsport's Avatar
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    Congrats....your on the trip of a lifetime!!
    FFR Daytona Type 65 Coupe
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    All toys still in the Scuderia!


    Every Saint has a past..................every sinner a future

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    You never see a motorcycle parked outside a Psychiatrists office.

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    So I've managed to find a little time to do some work. Hopefully this weekend I will get the front suspension together. I couldn't resist the aluminum front control arms, so I purchased a set on ebay and refinished them. I smoothed the srea for the shock mount and did a little shaving on the control arms to get them to sit flat.

    LCA.JPG

    Then I bead blasted and cleared them.

    I was thrown a curve ball today. My donor came with a set of Kosei K1 TS rims that I was going to use on the car. I was cleaning and detailing them for the rolling chassis when I noticed that 3 are 17x7, 1 is 17x8. What a tool the last owner was. They are useless to me now as there's no way I can do that. I couldn't sleep at night.

    So a new 17x8 is almost $250 with shipping. Then I have 3 used rims and one new. That look good but aren't my first choice. Looks like it's back to the drawing board. I'm thinking 18x8. Tire rack is having a great sale right now.

    kazera_kzy_bga_ci3_l.jpg

    On the rear suspension, I got Murphy on that as well. The 10 in. long lateral link bolt on one side wouldn't come out without destroying it and the bushings. I purchased the new bolt ($26..ouch). But $50 for two bushings is a little rough for my taste. That's before refinishing the ugly arms.

    On ebay I see adjustable later arm/trailing arm kits, with bushings for $200 or so. Anyone tried these? On such a light car that I don't plan to "baja" like a Subaru I can't see an issue.

    Did I happen to mention that this is a budget build using mostly donor parts. LOL

  9. #9
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Trailing arms or lateral links you got on ebay?

    BTW, first time I see someone using three 7" rims and one 8" rim. This is just mind-blowing.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  10. #10
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    I'm looking at these on ebay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/230965442432...84.m1423.l2649

    Looks good and plenty of adjustment.


    I didn't pick up on the wheel thing at first as they all have the same size tire, but when I was pressure washing the back sides I noticed one had a different contour. I just wonder if he was running it on the front or rear? I'll bet it was interesting around corners. Of course, now that they are all laying in the drive, the 8 doesn't even look close.

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    One weird thing. When I was installing the upper ball joints, it concerned me that it was way too easy. On one I was able to bottom it out easily by hand. The other I barely needed to do the vice trick. I torqued both in the vice and used loctite, but did anyone else have it that easy? Would you be concerned if it was that easy?

  12. #12
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Yes, I would be concerned if they went in that easily. I would look at doing some spot welds on the top to make sure it stays in place.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    You got the full trailing arms/lateral links kit and on the lateral links, check out closely if your spacers on each end fit within the chassis brackets, otherwise you'll have to cut them (spacers).
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  14. #14
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    Those ebay links look exactly like the kit I bought (for $225; you win!).

    The spacers are oversized for the mounting points on the 818 chassis; you will have to make adjustments. The paint finish is pretty awful also, easily damaged. I am just getting to the installation, there is a decent amount of adjustment available, but the locknut/hardware seems a little low rent. I'll be using a threadlocker after the suspension is adjusted.

    Also, the trailing arms can have clearance issues depending on the size/offset of your rears. I believe they actually reduce total clearance from the stock arms.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  15. #15
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    Fun day in the garage/shop today. Got more done than expected. I've mocked up my suspension assembly and was hoping someone could confirm it. Nothing is tight yet, so it's easy to fix....for now.

    photo 1(1).JPGphoto 2(1).JPGphoto 3(1).JPG

    Don't mind the strange geometry, I have the shock sleeves adjusted all the way down just for how it sits on my cart.

    My big question is do the grease fittings on the upper A-arm point up or down. Seems to depend on which page of the manual you are looking at, or maybe I'm just a bad reader.

    Also, my ball joints in the upper A-arm are straight, rather than being tilted. Is this right? why are some tilted?

    My sway bar won't fit in the blast cabinet so I need to take that off and deal with it, so please ignore the finish. It is a 19mm or 20mm bar. Is this better or worse than the smaller one?

    Thanks in advance!

  16. #16
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    Hey... you've got threaded rod for your sway bar. Mine's been backordered for 10 weeks.

    I think you're upper control arms are upside-down.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thall818 View Post
    My big question is do the grease fittings on the upper A-arm point up or down.
    Up. And the smaller black arm towards the rear of the car.


    Could you tell me where you got your bolts and what they are for the silver ones on top of the spindle brackets?
    I have specs, I know one place, but just in case you got them elsewhere or some different specs, I am looking at different options before I order.
    Last edited by Frank818; 07-19-2014 at 09:20 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #18
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    I used the 2 M16 bolts and flange nuts from the kit. It says to use the rear strut bolt, but as you know, it isn't big enough. Also, there are 8 strut bolts and flange nuts. The manual tells you to use 6 of them on spindles and the 4 nuts on the rear of the front LCA to for the pivot bushings.

    I haven't found where it tells me to use the M16 bolts, but I did a quick search of the .pdf of the manual and got no results other than a torque spec.

    I suspect they are to be used on the spindles it is just left out of the manual.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    From the kit? So you are one of the lucky ones who got M16 in your kit. 181 didn't.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  20. #20
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    I was lucky and didn't even know it. Now I'm wondering if the guys getting red cars are even luckier?? Any chance you could just clear coat it?

    So I went to put my brake master on after drilling the 5/16" holes. I grabbed the 1" bolts per the manual...LOL.

    I had heard of problems and almost ordered the adapter kit with longer pushrod, but decided on my own controversial fix that I could do at home.

    pedalbox.JPG

    I used a 5/16" x 1.5" Grade 5 bolt. I took a look at the tensile strength of the original bolt (6,300# min ea. per bolt, which is much higher than the holding power of the nut) then guessed at what it might be now. I then compared it to the effort I estimated it would take to break off an aluminum tab of the master cylinder and decided that I was in no way near the limits of the sanded down bolt head, much less the strength of my leg, with or without leverage.

    I did it using a benchtop belt sander and did not remove any meat from the bolt shaft.

  21. #21
    Senior Member svanlare's Avatar
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    I went the other way and cut some of the aluminum, but ended up with a very similar result.

  22. #22
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    The fun continues

    I think the reason I'm having so much fun, is because I'm not working on the wiring.

    I de-powered the rack

    DePower1.JPGDePower2.JPG

    Then I painted and installed it along with the steering column. Centered everything up and all looks good. Ordered inner and outer tie rod ends and new bellows.

    I bead blasted my original calipers and painted them with DupliColor caliper paint. The wheels won't be staying, but look good for now.

    FrontMockUp.JPGWheelsRotors.JPG

    I order my lateral arm/trailing arm kit and got the rear mocked up. A couple of things about this kit. It has the advantage of being fully fully adjustable. It has the disadvantage of being fully adjustable. I ordered it in red (blue was the other option). It is a different red than is shown in the ebay listing. Buyer beware. the trailing arms appear to have bushings at the frame mount. They do not. They are heim joints with rubber dust boots. A bushing here would cut down NVH (noise, vibration, harshness). I will at least keep my stock arms in the event they are too jarring for the street. Time will tell.

    RearMockUp.JPGRearMockUp3.JPG

    Next up is tightening the front end and then it's on to brake lines....

  23. #23
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I guess you are still test fitting things, cuz you are missing a lot of spacers.

    I love your long bottom spindle bolt! Super clean!
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #24
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    the yellow shocks are not supposed to be used upside down... the red ones can because they are gas pressurized
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  25. #25
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    Frank, yeah, I got my new arms in and promptly realized I hadn't painted my spacers yet. I just wanted to test fit the parts on the car.


    Thanks Dan, I appreciate the help. Only now I want the reds. I guess I better hold off for now and just flip the ones I have

  26. #26
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    Time to celebrate. i just received the last of my backordered parts from the factory.

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    Moving forward

    Brake lines are formed and installed. Clutch line is run as far as possible until I buy the long stainless kit-

    http://www.replicaparts.com/818%20parts%20page.htm


    I installed the gas pedal. It seems to have limited travel before it hits the fulcrum rod of the clutch. I have the cable style throttle. Will I be able to get WOT on full depress? I'll know soon enough, just curious.

    My seats came in. They are the Sparco Chrono Road seats. They are large. They fit, but it's tight. They have convinced me that even if I go with a smaller seat, I am 6' and will need the Boyd tank (Mo Money!)

    Sparco1.JPG

    Also, a word to the wise. I purchased Chinese steering bellows on ebay. Now I get to buy an OEM pair. I'll have like $80 in bellows by the time I'm done.

  28. #28
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thall818 View Post
    I installed the gas pedal. It seems to have limited travel before it hits the fulcrum rod of the clutch. I have the cable style throttle. Will I be able to get WOT on full depress? I'll know soon enough, just curious.

    My seats came in. They are the Sparco Chrono Road seats. They are large. They fit, but it's tight. They have convinced me that even if I go with a smaller seat, I am 6' and will need the Boyd tank (Mo Money!)
    I noticed the same issue with my gas pedal so I'm curious too (but I think we'll be ok) and I too just sprang for a Boyd tank cuz the stock tank felt uncomfortable.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Quiny's Avatar
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    I went with the Boyd tank as well for the same reason, it makes a really big difference. I'm not sure if they ever developed the "big guy" replacement tank from FFR. You are making great progress.

  30. #30
    K3LAG's Avatar
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    Did you get the Medium or Standard Chrono Roads? I got the mediums, they are just a bit smaller. I don't have them mounted yet, but it appears they will fit well. We don't have mounting quite worked out yet. I'll let you know what I do if I get there first. We have them on the Sparco sliders and plan to mount the rear as low as possible and the front about 2 inches higher.

    Larry

  31. #31
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    Thanks guys. I got the standard seats as they were on sale. Got a great price, but would have preferred the mediums now that I know. If I do keep and mount them, I will have no room for error (measure 8x, drill once)

    I was planning on buying these for mounting: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1150

  32. #32
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    Those brackets from summit make me nervous. When it comes to my seats mounted in a vehicle, I don't like to mess around. I had these laser cut, formed, and brace pieces welded in. They go flat to the tubing in the back and 1.5" of lift in the front.


  33. #33
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    We have brakes!

    Wow, I haven't done much in the last month. I've been out of town almost every weekend. I tightened up the front suspension and replaced the inner & outer tie rods and boots.

    Yesterday I finally got back to it and finished up the brake lines. Then I bled the system and verified that it was leak free. The only bummer I have is that one caliper is frozen. Not a huge deal, just another $50 or so down at NAPA and that will go away.

    Brakelines090814.JPGBrakeMaster090814.JPGFirewall090814.JPGLR2BrakeLine090814.JPGLRBrakeline090814.JPGRRBrakeline090814.JPG

    After that I was able to get the drivers' side dead pedal box painted & installed. I saved a bunch of time on this by creating an extension on my impact gun to give me about 6-8" of extension on my nut driver. I used this to put self tapping screws in the panel next to clutch. This allowed me to screw it in place instead of drilling, marking, removing and the drilling the frame. I could then pull screws out one by one and replace with rivets.

    BTW, after doing this method, I am no longer using a drill bit for 1/8" holes to mount aluminum. I'm just zip screwing, then replacing with rivets. IMO I think the screws are faster, and they make the perfect size hole.

    Next I need to do the timing belt, valve cover gaskets, LSD install, and detail the engine. Time to get it in.

    Also, I need to get my later links and trailing arms off the car and repainted. I hate the color.

    All this will have to wait though. I'm headed to New York this weekend for wedding.

  34. #34
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    I'm in Watkins Glen, NY for the first time in my life. I'm at a wedding. LOL

  35. #35
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    Seats with the Boyd tank

    Received my Boyd tank this week. Set it in the car with seats to check out leg room and seat angle. Plenty of room. Should make for a roomy cabin

    photo 1.JPGphoto 2.JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by thall818; 10-05-2014 at 08:42 PM.

  36. #36
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Now that you have installed the Boyd tank, the next step is modifying the 1/8' firewall that covers the tank. I called around until I found a metal shop that had a big bending brake and took the aluminum piece to them to bend the most-forward bend an additional 20 degrees. ($40 and 2 hpurs driving). Then on this forum I saw a guy who just cut the piece at the shelf and overlapped it. Consider cutting the panel before getting it bent because it would be much easier.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  37. #37
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    Thanks for the tip! I was already thinking about where to go to have the angles changed. I missed the post with the guy who cut his. Sounds like the way to go.

  38. #38
    Senior Member svanlare's Avatar
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    Great timing, my boyd tank should show up this weekend and I've started trying to plan the best way to change the firewall.
    -Steve

  39. #39
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    FYI, a 20 degree bend to the firewall seems to put it right on the Boyd tank. I was lucky to have a friend of a friend with a machine shop with a large press break to bend it for free. I found around 16-17 degree to be ideal to allow a little gap between the FW and tank.

  40. #40
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    If I do the 20 degree bend, where does it go? Is it a change to one of the existing bends? Maybe it will be obvious when I mock it up, but I'm afraid it will be Wednesday night before that can happen.

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