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Thread: Hindsight's build thread

  1. #1441
    Hi: I have the same padded door panels....I added netting to add storage where the indented section is; works fine. Capt. Bill
    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Really wow..... maybe I should just stick to the dash with the small scuff-scratch on it and not take the chance on another one arriving in worse shape? Aside from that scuff, it's basically perfect.

  2. #1442
    Moonlight Performance
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    That's a great idea!

  3. #1443
    Do you have pics of the netting you used?

  4. #1444
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    My old Porsche had something similar, finding useful space for storage is a bonus in this car.
    Last edited by flynntuna; 07-17-2017 at 12:28 AM.

  5. #1445
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    I use 2 nets per door, they are something like 50x200mm.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Official Bulid time 3077h, now at 3200, in inspection process

  6. #1446
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    Haven't done anything to the car in a while. I started on the sway bar a while back but haven't touched it. Too busy with other stuff. This weekend I'm trying to carve out a bunch of time to start and finish on the following:
    - Finish fabricating sway bar
    - Remove the proportioning valves for the rear brake calipers (just not happy with them and want to try running without)
    - Install new Hawk DTC-60 brake pads front and rear and install titanium brake pad shims
    - Install speed bleeders and bleed brakes
    - Drill some more holes in the brake pedal to continue playing with leverage and pedal feel/effort
    - Corner balance

    Need to get this all done this weekend because it's the last weekend I have before my next track day. Will post some pics when the sway bar is finished.

  7. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    - Drill some more holes in the brake pedal to continue playing with leverage and pedal feel/effort
    Won't drilling too many weaken the metal and since we need to put 10tons of force on the pedal it may snap off?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Official Bulid time 3077h, now at 3200, in inspection process

  8. #1448
    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Haven't done anything to the car in a while. I started on the sway bar a while back but haven't touched it. Too busy with other stuff. This weekend I'm trying to carve out a bunch of time to start and finish on the following:
    - Finish fabricating sway bar
    - Remove the proportioning valves for the rear brake calipers (just not happy with them and want to try running without)
    - Install new Hawk DTC-60 brake pads front and rear and install titanium brake pad shims
    - Install speed bleeders and bleed brakes
    - Drill some more holes in the brake pedal to continue playing with leverage and pedal feel/effort
    - Corner balance

    Need to get this all done this weekend because it's the last weekend I have before my next track day. Will post some pics when the sway bar is finished.
    How does the prop valve work? I haven't looked into it yet, but now my fronts are locking up and rears not. I have it set all the way out. Does it provide less pressure to the rears when its all the way out? or less as you dial it in further.
    I'm going to try drilling a higher hole myself just to get a little more leverage.
    Harley
    Bought 2002 Donor Jan 2014
    First Start Jan 18, 2015
    First Drive Feb 14, 2015

  9. #1449
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    Frank, the hole is very small and it goes all the way at the leading edge of the pedal. All the force will be exerted behind the hole, and the pedal arm is very thick and wide. It won't cause any issues.

    Harley, I'm using the Wilwood valves. They work by restricting flow to whatever line they are on. If you install it per FFR instructions, you install it on the FRONT brake lines. Two things wrong with that: 1 - You are reducing overall brake pressure and increasing pedal effort (you are reducing pressure to the front lines in order to try to increase the amount of work the rear brakes are doing in relation to the front) and 2 - These proportion valves don't actually reduce pressure - they delay it. They restrict flow which reduces pressure but eventually (a matter of a second or two), the pressure will equalize and it will be as if the valve doesn't even exist. Pointless in my opinion... I want something consistent, or nothing at all.

    After a lot of thinking, research, talking to other forum members, etc, I've determined that the only way to fix the brakes on the 818 is to replace the rear calipers with something closer in size to the front calipers (what Bob did), or to use a dual master cylinder setup with a balance bar between them (like the Wilwood pedal setup). I wouldn't run the Wilwood pedal box with Subaru calipers though because the Wilwood box uses dual 3/4" master cylinders and that's way too much master for the Subaru calipers (though Wilwood might sell smaller master cylinders, I'm not sure). I'm basing that on the fact that I'm running a SINGLE 7/8" master on my Subaru calipers and I still don't have enough leverage (whereas the Wilwood uses dual 3/4"), and based on the fact that a friend of mine has an 818R with the Wilwood pedal box and the same calipers that I have and he says pedal effort is awful.

    I don't want to blow thousands more on brakes at this point, so I'm hoping that with the right pedal leverage, and the right pads, I can make my 06/07 calipers work well at the track as-is, even if the front-rear bias isn't ideal. Yes it would stop quicker with more rear braking force but I'm hoping I can still be "competitive" with what I have now because compared to a lot of cars, even with a less than ideal front to rear bias, it should still stop extremely well due to the light weight of the car. I MIGHT experiment with running a rear brake pad that is 1 step more aggressive than the front at some point, but right now that's as far as I'm going to take it. Until I win the lottery, and I'm not yet playing so......

  10. #1450
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    hindsight
    Here is another option to increase rear brake pressure with your original rear calipers,

    http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake...ultiplier.html

    I like my brake the way they are now.
    If I saw this product before I did my larger calipers, I probably would have gone this route.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-31-2017 at 11:07 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  11. #1451
    Thanks Bob, that looks promising.

    I haven't finished fiddling with my brake set up yet. I'm getting lock up on the left front before the right, and rears aren't locking up at all with the proportional valve all the way out.
    So this might work to add it this multiplier. If Hindsight doesn't try it before I do, I might give it a shot.

    I'll have to re-read your thread to see what mods you had to do to add the front callipers to the rear. That would be another option for me.
    Harley
    Bought 2002 Donor Jan 2014
    First Start Jan 18, 2015
    First Drive Feb 14, 2015

  12. #1452
    Actually just re-reading the brake thread I was reminded of Rasmus suggestion....
    The best "Poor Man's Big Brake Kit" in my opinion for the front of a WRX is Z32 Nissan Aluminum calipers, with KNS Brakes Z32 to WRX adapter. Legacy GT/B9 Tribeca rotor.

    He said in post 12 that KNS sells the whole set up, less pads, for $400. That sounds reasonable.
    Then in the next post there was a suggestion to do the H6 upgrade in the rear for pretty cheap. But, If i'm changing the front to the KNS kit, then I may as well use the 2pot WRX fronts on the back like Bob did.

    Might have to look into this swap.
    Harley
    Bought 2002 Donor Jan 2014
    First Start Jan 18, 2015
    First Drive Feb 14, 2015

  13. #1453
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-01-2017 at 02:54 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  14. #1454
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Harley the fronts in the back is a cool setup but certainly needs more fabrication.

    The H6 bolts right on and is a lighter setup, and cheap to boot.. about $100 plus pads.

    both good choices.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  15. #1455
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    Do you know the piston area of the rear H6 calipers?

  16. #1456
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    you dont change the calipers, just the rotors and brackets...

    more brake torque but same piston area,

    pistons are whatever you have now in the rear.

    i think most of the rears have 1.5" pistons so

    Caliper piston area - 1.767"^2

    Effective caliper piston area - 3.5325"^2 (sliding)
    Last edited by longislandwrx; 09-01-2017 at 01:52 PM.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  17. #1457
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    Ah ok thanks.

  18. #1458
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    Sway bar fabrication is complete. It's installed but I still need to cut down the swaybar links that FFR provides because they are too long. Once that's done, I should be able to test drive and see how it feels.

    I hadn't welded chromoly before. It was a challenge keeping it between 400 and 600 degrees during welding.






  19. #1459
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    You are welding chromoly? Is there something you cannot weld?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 GT3582R ~400whp/wtq+
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017

    Official Bulid time 3077h, now at 3200, in inspection process

  20. #1460
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley818 View Post
    Actually just re-reading the brake thread I was reminded of Rasmus suggestion....
    The best "Poor Man's Big Brake Kit" in my opinion for the front of a WRX is Z32 Nissan Aluminum calipers, with KNS Brakes Z32 to WRX adapter. Legacy GT/B9 Tribeca rotor.

    He said in post 12 that KNS sells the whole set up, less pads, for $400. That sounds reasonable.
    Then in the next post there was a suggestion to do the H6 upgrade in the rear for pretty cheap. But, If i'm changing the front to the KNS kit, then I may as well use the 2pot WRX fronts on the back like Bob did.

    Might have to look into this swap.
    I'm using the KNS kit with aluminum Z32 calipers and STI rotors up front.
    Adam __________________ Instagram @brap818
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
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    My widebody 13b-REW powered build thread

  21. #1461
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    All wrapped up and took it for a test drive. Feels quite a bit different with this bar vs the OEM bar. Turn-in is crazy crisp and I can feel the front tires doing more work. I'm not comfortable driving and cornering as fast as I would need to in order to really test the bar on public roads so I'm going to either need to find a parking lot where they do AutoX in, or just wait for my next track day on the 22nd.

    Now, back out to work on the brakes.



  22. #1462
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    Looks great Jeff.

  23. #1463
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    sketch up your bar for us? specs on tubing used... what did you do re moving the bar clamps on the frame, move the lower one up?
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  24. #1464
    how did you fiure out what size bar to start with ? did you measure the factory bar or find out what it rates at and just start there? thanks sam

  25. #1465
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    Thanks Mitch.

    Dan, shopping list from McMaster:
    2x Tight-Tolerance Hardened 4140 Alloy Steel Bar, 1/4" Thick, 1-1/4" Wide, 1 Foot Long (these are the arms)
    1x Easy-to-Weld 4130 Alloy Steel Round Tube, 0.120" Wall Thickness, 3/4" OD, 6 Feet Long (this is the bar)

    Then some 3/4" universal sway bar mounting brackets with poly bushings (I got from Amazon but you can get from Summit or wherever).

    I can get you the exact measurements and a sketch but essentially I just cut the 3/4" bar down to 42.5" (I believe, I need to re-check) in length, drilled a 3/4" hole through one end of the bar, and then some 3/8" holes spaced 1" apart at the other end. I did trim the arms down to about 9" in total length (from the 12" length they come in). Slid the arms onto the ends of the bar so that the bar sticks out about 1/8" (to give better welding surface), then TIG welded both sides of the arms to the bar. I bolted the universal sway bar brackets to the mounting tabs on the frame that were put there by FFR for that purpose, however, with a straight swaybar (unlike the rear Subaru unit which is all bent and curved), the holes in the mounting tab are not in the right place and the bar will be at an angle. I used the stock holes on the driver's side mounting tab, and had to drill a hole on the top of the passenger side mounting tab as far up as I felt was safe; I didn't have to drill one lower because there is a square opening in the lower-middle of the mounting tab that can serve as the bolt hole for the lower bolt on the bracket. The universal sway bar brackets are slotted, so I moved the passenger side bracket up as high as it would go, and the driver side almost as long as it would go and that got me even. I double checked for square by measuring to the frame, and also using a digital level (setting the bar to the same level the car frame was at - seeing as how my garage isn't perfectly flat).

    I borrowed some corner scales from a friend and hoping tomorrow I can borrow another guy's alignment rack to do the corner balancing. Getting close to being prepared for my next track day.

  26. #1466
    Looks good! I think there would be a market if one of the vendors wanted to create a batch of these - hint hint...

  27. #1467
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    Jeff and I have been traveling the same path with some slight differences in approach on how the bar adjust. Mine is not a direct bolt on, I raise the bar on the pads which creates a little more clearance between the sway bar arm and spring/shock.
    I don't have photos of my finished bar but here is my mock-up.
    Sway bar hardware.jpgSway bar mock up 1.JPGSway bar Mock up 3.JPG
    I need more testing before ready for primetime.

  28. #1468
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    just needs so bright powdercoat to really pop

    much nicer than the ill fitting factory bar. i'd buy one if ever offered.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  29. #1469
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    Thanks everyone. Mitch, I actually forgot that you built some stand-offs to space the bar forward more, out away from the perches. That is a really good idea which would allow more clearance to the coilover spring, while not shortening the arm length. I was thinking about just putting a 1/2" aluminum shim between the sway bar mount and the frame mounting pad, but it's basically the same thing.

    I didn't think people would be interested in a bar. Part of why is that not everyone complains about oversteer on the 818. It really depends on the tire sizes you run front vs rear, and the spring rates your run. Everyone is running something different so not everyone will want or need a front bar. There also just aren't that many people seriously pushing their 818 at the track yet, at least, not that I know of. I'd guess less than a dozen? As more people track their cars, there may be a consensus.

    The other reason I didn't think people would be interested is the cost. To do these 100% by hand... all the TIG welding, cutting, drilling, radiusing, etc, and then get them powder coated, I'd guess I would have to charge $500-$600. About 3 hours of labor is required to make each bar, I think (now that I have the dimensions sorted out). I could cut the labor down by having a machine shop pre-cut, drill, and radius the arms, but I'd need to do that in a batch to make it worthwhile which would require a group purchase.

    TL;DR: If someone really wants one, I'll make them one by hand and fine tune the price from there.

  30. #1470
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Thanks for the specs!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  31. #1471
    The bar looks great.
    Did you do any calculations to estimate how much it will change the wheel rate? Or taking a build it, test it, see how it does, re-built and re-test approach?
    818R Build date 10/31/15

  32. #1472
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    Yes, I did the math on the OEM bar. It was 83 inch pounds. My new bar is adjustable from 100 to 181 inch pounds. I figured this range of 120% to 218% increase in rate over current would be an adequate range to get me where I need to be. If 218% increase isn't enough, I'll have to build another bar but I'm going to be very surprised if that is required because it's pretty stiff at the 181 inch pound setting I have it at currently. My gut guess is that I'll need to either leave it here, or move it to the middle adjustment setting which will give me 132 inch pounds.

  33. #1473
    Nice job. Do you still have the OEM bar?

    You were right, the aftermarket one I had on my donor is too thick. Now that I am a bit further down the road on my build, it is evident that the aftermarket bar just isn't going to work.

  34. #1474
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    I do still have the OEM bar, yes. Sitting in my shed.

  35. #1475
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    Getting ready for another track day this Friday.

    Hawk DTC-60 brake pads are installed, as are the titanium brake pad shims and speed bleeders. I've bled the brakes but they still feel a bit spongy so I'll have to try re-bleeding them one more time (had to bleed them because I removed my proportioning valves from the front brake lines). Moving the master cylinder pushrod higher is not helping with a firm pedal feel but it still just feels off to me. While bedding the brake pads last night, I noticed that the fronts lock up quite easy and the car dives a good bit - real evidence that the rear brakes aren't doing enough. I'll just have to live with it - or decide to fork out the dough for a wilwood pedal cluster and larger rear calipers. Really don't want to have to deal with re-routing and re-wiring my ABS system for that though.

    All that's left is to do the corner balancing and I'll be ready for Friday. I should have some GoPro video up sometime this weekend. Hopefully the new mods will help me shave another second or two off my lap times. I sure would love to break down into the 1:30s but I'm a long 4 seconds away from that. I also haven't had a chance to play with the sway bar adjustment so I guess I'll be doing that on the track.

  36. #1476
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    Good luck!!!
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
    Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos

  37. #1477
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    Have fun

  38. #1478
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    Thanks guys! I'm finally ready. Even wrapped up the corner balancing at 11pm tonight. Very happy to have finally done that. Been waiting a year for it.






  39. #1479
    I'm a little bit jealous even though mine came in some 250lbs lighter.

    Do you think you could still hit those numbers with your weight in the car? And did you remember to disconnect your fancy new sway bar?

  40. #1480
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    Nice, I assume that is with driver?

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