Hindsight's build thread

[Canadian818]

The stock "S" springs are adjustable, might only be compression but it's something to try first. Also finish your aero first, and based on FFR's wind tunnel testing, account for the added weight at speed when choosing a spring. I'm not surprised your front end was loose, without a splitter or any rad ducting it was a big air scoop. Any springs you buy should work on a future "better" shock, so there's no harm in playing with spring rates now. Are you running a front sway bar?

[tmoretta]

I have swapped out the original FFR rear springs for 400 lb. Eibachs. Even after removing the front sway bar I still have more understeer than I like (car does have the front splitter). Is a good next step stiffening the rear Koni shocks? How?

[Hindsight]

Not running a front swaybar. The stock Konis are adjustable in rebound only.

[UnhipPopano]

Another adjustment to try,for correcting under-steer, is to raise up the back end of your car.

[Hindsight]

Here is a video clearly showing the cut-out in a hard corner (it is the second corner shown in the vid). Note that it is two corners in the same direction back to back. It's a little hard to hear it but if you listen, you can hear it, and more than that you can see us both go flying forward as the power just completely stops, and then a second later it comes back on like a light switch. It does this at 75% full but never at 100-110% full.

[Frank818]

Hey Frank, there are well-defined formulas that all the suspension manufacturers use to design a setup for any given car. You take into account the corner weights (which would account for your heavier engine), unsprung weight, motion ratio (motion of the shock vs the wheel), suspension type, and use of the car. You then target your desired suspension frequency and all that gets plugged into a formula and out pops your spring rates and shock valving. http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsp...sion-worksheet

A good set of dual adjustable coilovers from someone like Ohlins or Penske is going to run like $3500 to $4000 but it is worth it in my opinion if you are going to race. Going to the track, I expected to be able to run a bit like a Miata: Super, super fast through the turns and so-so on the straights. I ended up being one of the slower cars through the corners because the suspension was scary and unpredictable, while being fast on the straights.... so it was more like driving a Camaro than a Miata. Watching the in-car video of guys in other cars running good suspension is like night and day. They just power through all the turns with bumps and curbs and it doesn't upset the car at all.... stays perfectly planted. I'm not going to get that with the setup I have now. I am considering just changing spring rates for the short term but I have doubts the koni shocks that come with the S will be valved properly for stiffer springs. The only well to tell would be to put them on a shock dyno. Of course, having the konis re-valved is another option.

I like that answer. Yeah I do have a spreadsheet but some input data are totally unknown to me so I go nowhere with that.
I'll have to keep in mind the possibility to use adjustable suspension, like I had on my Corrado and it was awesome. I'm keeping your post in my notes.

[Frank818]

Hey Jeff my man. Do you have more pix of your rear splash guards fiasco?
Cuz when I read you post I freaked out and went and checked mines. I test fitted them and they fit 90% perfect. I don't expect to trim any of the alu panels. I was wondering, are you sure you didn't swap the parts around? Using the left alu panel on the right side and vice-versa?

[Hindsight]

Hey Frank, check out this post: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post247714

You can see exactly the mods I had to do for the splash guards there. You'll note I had to notch the outer liner so I could get it up higher while still clearing the cross brace, and then added an angle bracket I bent up to hold it in place. You can also see the extension I had to make on the rear lower part of the outer liner. I didn't have to swap any parts or sides.

Now the INNER liners - those are another story. The inner liners are made with tabs, such that they force the outer liner to conform to a specific pre-set arch shape. That is a problem. In addition, they don't clear my brake lines or even the suspension components. So my strategy is to make my own inner liners. The outer lines have their own arch-profile set by simply bolting the front and rear to the side-sail, then bolting the top to the cross brace. Once you've done that, the liner has a curve that it is happy with. I will now put a piece of cardboard up against the inside of it (with no wheel in place), and use a black sharpie to trace the liner's curve onto the cardboard. I'll then cut the cardboard template according to that line, add some "tabs" like the FFR unit has, then do any trimming on the bottom of it as needed to clear the suspension links. Then I will trace that onto some .040 aluminum sheet, bend the tabs, and rivet it in place. Follow with some 3M under-coat and install.

I haven't gotten to the point of doing the inner liners yet because I have other stuff I need to focus on. The outer liners are the most important part anyway since they keep stuff from really being flung around everywhere. My advice to you is to remove your springs and rubber bump stop, and then jack up the tire as far up as it will go and use this as a guide to set how far up your liners need to be to avoid rubbing.

In other news, I stupidly signed up for another track day: October 21st, back at Road Atlanta. I say stupidly because before I go, I basically must get all of the following done if I want to be able to really use the car:
1. Fix fuel venting issue (over-flow was collecting in my DIY charcoal cannister and then slowly/steadily dropping down right in front of my rear tire)
2. Fix fuel starvation issue (hydramat - already on order)
3. Fix overheating issue (build a scoop below the car for my oil cooler, install a new water pump with the cast impeller, add radiator ducting)
4. Raise the car a half inch to get it to 4.5" proper ride height
5. Re-align the car at the new ride height, use eccentric bolts to set camber, modify upper A-arms for more caster, and add caster shim to LCA - shooting for -1 camber and 6 caster
6. Make a front spoiler from Alumalite or Alumacore
7. Check/adjust bump steer
8. Put front springs in rear, then buy a set of 400lb springs to put up front. Then adjust the yellow "S" Koni shocks all the way firm

I also have to figure out how I'm going to get the car to the track and back.

[Frank818]

Yes those are the ones I've seen, was wondering if you had more. I don't seem to need any of this (I will have to cut a bit for my brake lines though). Obviously if I test full compression then yeah, but I'm willing to take the risk as it's pretty rare on the road you will bottom it out. But if you do and it breaks the guards, those aren't plastic so it may not look pretty. I'll think about it, yes.

Probably since you needed a bigger diameter on the outer guard then it explains why the bumper notch wasn't lined up and it screws up everything else too, I can understand.

[Hindsight]

Hi Frank - I can take more pics if it would help you but there is really nothing more to see. Those are the only mods. If you want to see something else, let me know and I'll take some more pics.

I would strongly suggest you check full compression. The reason? After my track session, I found solid rub marks at the top of my splash liners. This means that even though I jacked up the rear suspension as high as I could in order to figure out how high the liner needed to be, on the road in real life the bump-stop compressed even more than I was able to compress it with the jack and the wheel went higher, causing a rub. Now I need to move the liner even higher (probably only 1/2" though).

As for the diameter of the outer guard - I have no idea how they would work even with a normal inner liner placement. They are too small diameter. But I guess they worked for some folks.....

[Frank818]

Ok I'll find the time to get the damn spring off and compress the shock.

What is your tire size again?

[Hindsight]

256/35/18 in the back

[Frank818]

256... ok did you mean 255 or 265? Both typos are possible lolll

[Hindsight]

265, sorry - went as big as I thought possible in the back, and I'm pretty sure I hit the limit.

[Frank818]

I have same size and same tires as well, if I recall you got Yokos.
It seems my liners fit ok. I cheated though, I pushed them as high as I could and inside the fender by about 1", the rear doesn't fit hard on the fender well, I will need to put more foam or something but that allowed me to cheat and raise the liner. I notched just a little bit the rear bumper notch to accommodate the change of configuration. Up to the bump stop I'm ok, it seems I could be ok if the stop squeezes 1/4", more than that I'm not sure. But if I hit the stop too often it means I have a too soft suspension anyway. Which I'm pretty I have with my added weight in the back.

It's surprising how much of a difference between builds.

Hey where's your plate? In the mail?

[Hindsight]

I have the Dunlop Direzza Z2 Star Specs.

Yeah, once you start changing things, it has a cascading effect. It sounds like you have it figured out so that's good.

Plate? Hah. I'm now waiting for my vin plate. It should be here any time between tomorrow and 8 weeks from now. Then after I get it, I put it on the car and get a cop to fill out another T22-B to verify the new vin plate is attached. Then I have to send that to the state and then another 8 weeks or so later, I should theoretically have my title. I can then go to the tag office and pay my 7% sales tax and get a license plate and tag (after first passing emissions which I'm not worried about). So probably going to be a few more months unless I get lucky. So far I have not been lucky.

[Frank818]

Man you're quick responding to posts. I like that.

Oops, it's ninjack who got the same tire, sorry for the confusion.

I'm crossing fingers my measurements and tests were good. There's nothing better than real world driving to test, though, but that'll have to wait for me.

Wait, what did you say? Between TOMORROW and.... EIGHT weeks??? What the hell is that HUGE gap for?? Outrageous!

Your process seems to be similar to the one in QC, although our overall process should be less than that. I'm surprised USA made it so hard on kit cars in GA.
But like I said a long time ago, I think you have a lot to fix on the car until then, I'm sure you'll be busy for most of that time. Better fixing now than once you roll it on the street and have problems at a right light!

[Ekim7878]

I am going to start the GA registration process in a couple of months, so I am glad you are blazing the trail first. I saw you said you had to pass emissions. Would they not give you an emissions exemption for a kit car? I was putting my exhaust together based on getting the exemption. Maybe I need to change my design.

[Hindsight]

What county are you in? If you are not in an emissions county, you wont have to get tested. Otherwise you will have to.

I will have a writeup on the whole registration process as soon as I am finally finished with mine. If you need to start the process before mine is done, PM me and I will walk you through it. I can save you months of delays....

Frank, the process here isnt really difficult, it is just long, from a duration standpoint.

[RM1SepEx]

Thank God I live in Maine, Submit all the paperwork, takes about 3 weeks until they call, cursory look at the car, they pop rivet the Maine VIN number (ME7008 in my case) Give you the title. Then I go to to my inspection station like any other car. They put it on the lift, make sure it has all needed "stuff" ODB2 tested for codes, check lights wipers, CAT and Muffler etc DONE!

[AZPete]

I've been agonizing over your bureaucratic tangle to get plates in Atlanta and you have my sympathy. But, if Dan thinks 3 weeks in Maine is good, Arizona is one visit to the DMV, no sales tax, no emissions test, no OBD2 test, leave with plates before lunch. OTOH, we pay more for lobster.

[Ekim7878]

What county are you in? If you are not in an emissions county, you wont have to get tested. Otherwise you will have to.

I will have a writeup on the whole registration process as soon as I am finally finished with mine. If you need to start the process before mine is done, PM me and I will walk you through it. I can save you months of delays....

Frank, the process here isnt really difficult, it is just long, from a duration standpoint.

Darn. I am in Dekalb. So I will have to pass emissions. I guess I will work towards a new exhaust setup. I am thinking my car will be completed by Christmas so you will (hopefully :-) have your plate by then. Thanks for help.

[Hindsight]

I could lend you my exhaust that has a cat, if you are interested.

I did get a letter yesterday from them. They are requesting ne to pay $1220 in ad valorem tax in order to get the title (that is 7% of the appraised value). I expected that. The vin plate is "on the way" so hopefully I am nearing the end of the process

[RM1SepEx]

I've been agonizing over your bureaucratic tangle to get plates in Atlanta and you have my sympathy. But, if Dan thinks 3 weeks in Maine is good, Arizona is one visit to the DMV, no sales tax, no emissions test, no OBD2 test, leave with plates before lunch. OTOH, we pay more for lobster.

I could have paid xtra for quicker service, Craig only had to send in a few documents in Indiana....

[Hindsight]

My vin plate just showed up today in the mail.

I now need to rivet it to the car, have a cop fill out a new T22B form validating the vin is on the car and send it back to the state, and get emissions tested. After that, I will try going to the tag office and paying my tax and asking for a plate and tag. They will either give it to me or tell me I must wait until I have the title in-hand from the state. We shall see which is the case.....

[Mechie3]

I could have paid xtra for quicker service, Craig only had to send in a few documents in Indiana....

I had my plates before the car was even running. Haha!

[Hindsight]

Yeah yeah yeah

On the bright side, we do have 10 months of convertible weather a year, although the pollen in spring is so bad that a 5 minute drive will coat every surface of the car, inside and out, with a very thick layer of pollen dust.

[Wayne Presley]

OOOOH, yellow pine pollen every where

[Hindsight]

Yeah, I assume you get it down where you are too eh Wayne?

I riveted my vin on and plan to go to emissions and the tag office tomorrow morning to see what happens. Fingers crossed.

[Wayne Presley]

Yep, very thick

[Hindsight]

So it appears that since the car is titled as a 2016, I won't need to pass emissions until 2018. Too bad I already spent all that time on an exhaust with a cat. Oh well... at least it will be ready for me down the line.

I found out today that I can get the title in person, saving 2+ weeks of delay. My insurance isnt showing up in the state database though so am trying to get that sorted with the insurance company. As soon as it is, I can get my title and plate.

[Hindsight]

I have my license plate in hand. Wow. Hard to believe I am finally street legal.

[Canadian818]

I have my license plate in hand. Wow. Hard to believe I am finally street legal.

Congratulations, that's the final big milestone!

[AZPete]

Congrats! Now put on some miles. and smiles.

[STiPWRD]

Awesome! Congratulations!

[wleehendrick]

I have my license plate in hand. Wow. Hard to believe I am finally street legal.

download.jpg

[svanlare]

CONGRATS! Definitely time to celebrate!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I have my license plate in hand. Wow. Hard to believe I am finally street legal.

Great job,
How long until it's done?
Bob

[Hindsight]

Thanks for all the kind words everyone.

Bob, done? Never, of course! I do have a check-list of things that need to be wrapped up - stuff like finishing the interior and installing the splash guards, etc.

Via facebook, I found a impromptu car meet at 4:30 today at some park about 20 miles or so from where I live. I sweat out the heat and stop and go traffic for an hour to get there. There were probably 100+ people there and some pretty cool cars. I attached a pic of the 818 interest below.

I noticed something interesting while backing out of the garage and driveway today: The steering returns to center fairly well in reverse, just not when going forward! Seems strange.

[wallace18]

Congrats! how many times did you get asked what is it?