Hindsight's build thread

[Ellimist]

**Shouldn't, not "sibilant"... I don't have any idea where my phone's auto-correct got "sibilant", LOL.

[Hindsight]

Me either, I don't even know what sibilant means lol.

The wheel cleaner is safe for aluminum (from my research) but you need to ensure you really wash it off and I wouldn't let it sit too long. I spent a day or so googling ways to brighten and restore aluminum to it's like-new shine and while I read a lot of different things, the clear winner was to use a strong detergent (like simple green automotive formula) for cleaning, and an acid for brightening (the most commonly suggested one was the etching mag wheel cleaner). They make acid products specifically for this purpose (like Alumabrite) but they can be hard to find. The etching wheel cleaner is readily available at almost all auto parts stores. I think it actually says on the back not to use it on aluminum but whatever.... it's basically the same stuff as the aluminum-specific products: acid. Just spray it on, gently scrub with a plastic brush, allow to soak 30 seconds or so, then rinse. Repeat one or more times if needed to get the brightness and stain reduction you want. I did a final clean/rinse with the detergent cleaner to ensure all the acid was removed. Wear gloves and eye protection.

Regarding the tools:

The FSM talks about three tools. One allows you to rotate the transmission input shaft. You can do that by hand, or put a socket on that big nut at the back of the transmission. The other tool is the paper weight. All you need is a big socket or hole-saw with the teeth ground off, or whatever, that will contact the bearing race without touching the diff or the diff bearing. Then set a 10lb weight on top of that and there's your second tool. The spanner thing I made by just taking a piece of scrap aluminum bar stock (you can get it from home depot or McMaster etc), then drilling two holes in it and then dropping a couple big nails into the holes. I then cut off the nails an inch and a half or so below the bar. I measured the distance needed between the nails using a ruler against the transmission bearing carrier (to see how far apart the nails would need to be to engage the teeth of the carrier).

[rangerbay]

**Shouldn't, not "sibilant"... I don't have any idea where my phone's auto-correct got "sibilant", LOL.

Sibilant is a "sh" sound, like SHould'nt.

Bill

[Ellimist]

Sibilant is a "sh" sound, like SHould'nt.

Bill

Ah, so sibilant was my phone's "long" way of representing the first two letters of what I wanted to type, LOL, very efficient.

[Tamra]

A wider version of this spanner wrench would work nicely for adjusting the bearing pre-load too.

Also, I'm sure you were already going to, but make sure you don't forget to replace the transmission front seal (on the upper shaft) while you're at it.

[Ellimist]

Me either, I don't even know what sibilant means lol.

The wheel cleaner is safe for aluminum (from my research) but you need to ensure you really wash it off and I wouldn't let it sit too long.....

Regarding the tools:

The FSM talks about three tools......

Ya, I was a little wary of the proper use of the wheel cleaner, but seems just fine to use as you say - not for long and wash it off completely. And using a base solution to neutralize the acid as well as wash it off is a good idea. Per the data sheet of the Pro Series Simple Green® Automotive Cleaner & Degreaser, it's a pretty strong base solution is a pH of ~10.9. All sounds good to me!

[wleehendrick]

Sibilant is a "sh" sound, like SHould'nt.

Bill

And the term is often used to describe an audio system with excessive high frequencies (like from a hot tweeter) as this accentuates that particular sound in voices. It's the only reason I know the word!

[Hindsight]

Didn't have a minute to spend this week on the car until the weekend.

Today I finished the Quaife install. Glad to have that behind me. It really wasn't very difficult but the terrible FSM that actually tells you to do the WRONG thing cost me quite a bit of time and head scratching last week. At any rate, it's all back together now and I'm going to post another thread on the install to help folks.



I put the steering column and pedal cluster in, in order to help me position my seats and ensure the seats and brackets I have are going to work; also to ensure I pass the broomstick test. I tried installing the Replica Parts master cylinder relocation bracket (not the reservoir relocation bracket) but ran into a snag. I put it where I believe it's supposed to go which is basically as high as possible without it hitting the bolts that hold the pedal cluster in. I then drilled the top hole through the firewall and the pedal cluster bracket, but the pedal cluster itself is so close to the hole that there is no way the stud on the relocation bracket is going to get more than 1/8" through the hole. I'm really scratching my head on this.

Here is the top hole for the master cylinder relo bracket and you can the problem:


Here is where I put the template to mark the hole - you can see it's as high as it's going to get:



Transmission all done and ready to go into the car as soon as my motor mounts arrive:



Pedals and cluster installed. Was surprised at how high and back the steering wheel is positioned. I'll probably need to get Rory's spacer.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hindsight
Your lower control arm bushings are in up-side-down. This make it difficult to get proper caster adjustment without the tires rubbing the firewall.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Oh really? Thanks Bob - so I need to rotate them 180 degrees?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Oh really? Thanks Bob - so I need to rotate them 180 degrees?

Yes
Also, Great write up on the LSD.
Bob

[xxguitarist]

I'm not exactly sure where we're looking, here:


But it seems like maybe you could cut a slot in it to allow the stud to come through? Or is there a plate you could just continue drilling through? What's past the weld spot?

[bompus]

I just ground a slot in mind for the bolt to fit through and to allow room for a nut on it. It was a bit of grinding, but it still seems structurally strong.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm not exactly sure where we're looking, here:


But it seems like maybe you could cut a slot in it to allow the stud to come through? Or is there a plate you could just continue drilling through? What's past the weld spot?

Hindsight,
Mike posted pictures when he designed the bracket.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post143608

He did not post a picture of the pedal box side so we could tell what he did. Please ask him to add that picture.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Thx for the reply guys. Xxguitarist: the pic is of the top of the pedal box from inside the cabin. Here is a better view:



Bompus: I was afraid of that. Looks like I would need to grind off quite a bit to make a slot large enough to clear the stud and nut. I may remove the bracket and do that.... haven't yet decided.

Here is a pic from Mike that shows how the 2002 bracket is different. There is a big open area where as the later models it is closed off.

[Hindsight]

Can't believe it's been almost a month since I have posted. My wife left the country for a month to attend a training seminar and I thought, "Oh boy, am I ever going to get a bunch of work done on the 818 while she's gone!" After she left, it quickly turned into a month long span of complete lack of any kind of motivation to do anything at all except keeping myself and the dogs fed (and going to work of course). Funny how that works.

The last few things I did on the 818 were a bit frustrating: Trying to figure out a better DBW gas pedal mount and not being able to really determine where I wanted it to go, dealing with the master cylinder bracket stuff as mentioned above (I have decided I'll just cut up the pedal cluster to accommodate Mike's bracket), dealing with seats and seat brackets, and having to remove the front control arms to flip the bushings 180 degrees. So rather than deal with any of that, to get back into it I figured I'd start on something completely different so I could make some bigger progress.... like getting the engine and transmission in. I only had 2.5 hours today to spend but in that time I did the TGV deletes. My South Bend Stage 3 daily clutch kit is here, as are my Cusco motor mounts and new OEM flywheel. Now I just need to drill and tap the intake manifold for the GM IAT sensor for speed density mode and then I can bolt everything onto the engine and get it installed into the 818. Once I do that, I think I'll be more motivated to go back to the other stuff. I guess I need to get a rear outer firewall in place first though.... need to find a local source for aluminum.

[Tamra]

Just make a list and check things off. If you're feeling overwhelmed, pick something small. That's what helps us.

Sounds like you have a lot of fun new stuff. Nice choice on the South Bend Why'd you go stage 3?

[GUNS]

Yea When I get frustrated I find sometimes I have to move on to something else just to show myself progress. Especially if it's something that I have to re-do.

[Hindsight]

Just make a list and check things off. If you're feeling overwhelmed, pick something small. That's what helps us.

Sounds like you have a lot of fun new stuff. Nice choice on the South Bend Why'd you go stage 3?

That's good advice Tamra, thank you! I went with the Stage 3 daily because stage 2 is only rated to 345 ft lbs and stage 3 is 400. I'm shooting for around 400hp/tq. I have read a couple things about South Bend, the first being that they underrate their numbers, and the second being that they rate their numbers at the flywheel instead of the wheels. If they are both true, I feel like they cancel eachother out. Since I'm shooting for 400 a the wheels, I figured better safe than sorry. The Stage 3 daily is still organic so it should be ok on the street.

Especially if it's something that I have to re-do

Right? Re-work is the worst. I purposely haven't tightened anything because I know I'll have some amount of re-work to do, but sometimes I wonder if there will ever be a point where I finally tighten everything down hahah, or worse, forget to do it at all.

[GUNS]

Right? Re-work is the worst. I purposely haven't tightened anything because I know I'll have some amount of re-work to do, but sometimes I wonder if there will ever be a point where I finally tighten everything down hahah, or worse, forget to do it at all.

Ha, I worry about too.

[Tamra]

That's good advice Tamra, thank you! I went with the Stage 3 daily because stage 2 is only rated to 345 ft lbs and stage 3 is 400. I'm shooting for around 400hp/tq. I have read a couple things about South Bend, the first being that they underrate their numbers, and the second being that they rate their numbers at the flywheel instead of the wheels. If they are both true, I feel like they cancel eachother out. Since I'm shooting for 400 a the wheels, I figured better safe than sorry. The Stage 3 daily is still organic so it should be ok on the street.

Nice, that makes sense. We went with the Stage 2 endurance which is rated at 445 to the crank (or possibly wheel if they underrate their numbers), and is still organic. Our goal is 350whp max with similar torque, which puts us right in the range. It seems like yours was a good choice too.

Are you going to autocross your 818?

[Hindsight]

I've just never gotten into autocross for some reason. Haven't tried it though.... maybe I will and become hooked? My current intended use is street and HPDE track days. And of course, "Coffee and Cars" events.

The reason I went stage 3 daily instead of stage 2 endurance is that the SouthBend verbiage led me believe that the daily clutches had a smoother engagement with less chatter. The verbiage is pretty generic between daily and endurance, and S2 vs S3 so I just went with S3 daily to be safe.

[GUNS]

I've done a few Auto-x's, but stopped doing them once I started doing HPDEs. With that being said, I'm planning on doing a few Auto-X's before I got to the track to sort out the car. I'd much rather have something go wrong in a parking lot vs. the back stretch at VIR!

[Hindsight]

It was around 70 degrees and sunny all weekend which helped with motivation. I probably only spent 4 or 5 hours total but got a number of things scratched off the list.

I modified the pedal cluster to accept Mike's master cylinder relocation. I had to remove the pedal cluster and use my cutoff wheel to cut a big notch out of the front to clear the stud and bolt. And while I did accomplish that, it wasn't until I had it bolted back into the car before I realized that while the stud and nut do have enough room, my notch wasn't big enough to allow a socket in there. Doh. I wasn't about to take the whole thing apart again so I just got in there with my dremel and cut off what was remaining on the sides and bent them up and out of the way. Not pretty but it works and no one is going to see it there. The master cylinder bracket went in nicely; don't forget to install the blockoff plate first and use silicone on the plate, the relo bracket, and the master cylinder. You don't need to drill holes in the blockoff plate though, since the bolts would be in the way of the relo bracket. I didn't realize this until after I drilled them lol.




I also finally got around to removing the front control arms and flipping the hurricane bracket over. The reason it was upside down was that, while I did swap them side to side per the manual, I also then flipped the entire things 180 degrees to serve as "the free caster mod", but didn't know that you then need to flip the hurricane bracket back around again. So anyway, that was like an hour that I'm glad is behind me. I used the trick someone else posted of driving your car over the control arm to hold it in place so you can loosen and torque the big bolt on the back of that bracket. I also torqued the ball joint castle nuts in place. Unfortunately I didn't check the cotter pin hole orientation first so I couldn't get the pin in. Once the balljoint gets seated in the spindle bracket, it's very hard to remove. I had to buy a balljoint separator to get it out so I could turn it.

I also compressed my steering column using my shop press. I need one of Rori's brackets now. I found that I only needed to compress it just over an inch to have the steering wheel where I want it.

Lastly, I played around with the DBW accelerator pedal. I really don't like FFR's bracket and want to make my own. The trick right now is figuring out how far below the brake pedal I want the accelerator pedal to be. Not too far or you can't heel & toe. But I don't have a lot of experience doing that, and since the brakes aren't done, I don't know how far the brake pedal is going to go down so it makes it difficult for me to figure out the best place for it.

Here is the steering rack bracket all finished up. I have these to sell now and am just waiting to hear back from FFR on my vendor account setup. They fit and look great. I need to check this week to see if it solves the radiator bracket clearance issue as well.





If you are interested in buying one of these brackets, go here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...-rack-brackets

[Tamra]

The steering column bracket looks great!

[wleehendrick]

Lastly, I played around with the DBW accelerator pedal. I really don't like FFR's bracket and want to make my own. The trick right now is figuring out how far below the brake pedal I want the accelerator pedal to be. Not too far or you can't heel & toe. But I don't have a lot of experience doing that, and since the brakes aren't done, I don't know how far the brake pedal is going to go down so it makes it difficult for me to figure out the best place for it.

I modified my DBW pedal mount by simply adding a ~1" spacer at the bottom mounting point and bending the flange on the top. It locates perfectly for heel-and-toe (or at least as far as I can tell before actually driving it). The FFR bracket is not very rigid... it's OK for easy operation, but flexes when you hit the limit. I could see it be a problem with aggressive stepping on it. I thought about fabricating a new bracket with the same geometry, but I think I'll be OK with just putting a post or spacer on the firewall as a stop for the range of motion.

[Hindsight]

Thanks - I saw that Chad did the same thing on his R. I can't weld (yet) so I'm trying to get creative. I came up with an idea for a flat plate of aluminum that bolts to the frame, and then the pedal bolts to that. It keeps the plastic part of the DBW pedal vertical against the frame, and that puts the pedal right about 1/2" lower than the brake pedal. It would be a very stiff, and simple mount, but I'm not sure 1/2" below the brake pedal is far enough for proper heel to toe. How far behind is yours?

[metalmaker12]

Looks great!!

[Hindsight]

Very slow going still. Got my cold air intake cleaned and powder coated black and picked up some aluminum for a rear firewall.

I finally installed the DBW accelerator pedal. I basically did what Chad did which is to use the factory provided bracket with rivnuts, and then use a spacer to space out the bottom portion of it to get the pedal position where I wanted it. I'm not happy with the results due to the amount of movement the factory bracket provides. I've fiddled around with some cardboard templates to try to make a bracket that is both strong, and puts the pedal in the right place but it's actually 10x harder than it sounds. I've given up on the fight in order to continue making forward progress on the build but I WILL come back to it.

I put the steering column in with Rori's spacer. I found I didn't need to compress the column more than 1.25" to get the steering wheel where I want it. A lot of people like having the steering wheel very far away from them but in a racing school I attended many years ago, they said your elbows should be bent at, or just under 90 degrees with your hands on the wheel. With my seat position and 1.25" compression of the steering column, that puts me there.

I'm now working on the rear firewall. I'm just using some thin aluminum (forget the gauge but is the same stuff as inside the cockpit) and will line it with some sort of heat shield which I have yet to select. Leaning toward the DEI stuff but man is it pricey.

[wleehendrick]

I finally installed the DBW accelerator pedal.

I did the same; seems like it should be good for heel/toe. I like the position, but it does flex when you reach the end of the range of motion and continue applying pressure. I'm going to try mounting a stop to the firewall so I can floor it without worrying. (about the pedal, at least!) I'll fab a new bracket only if I'm not happy after that.

A lot of people like having the steering wheel very far away from them but in a racing school I attended many years ago, they said your elbows should be bent at, or just under 90 degrees with your hands on the wheel.

You mean I'm doing it wrong? Dang!



After I get some coffee, time to go install your steering rack mount...

[Hindsight]

I'd like to see a dude try to go around a racetrack like that on a car with racing slicks LOL

Let me know how the bracket works out for you.

[C.Plavan]

An easy measurement for the steering wheel distance for racing is your wrist. Get buckled in, lay your arms on top of the steering wheel. The steering wheel should be around that bone sticking out on your wrist.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Don't forget that you need a pedal stop on the DBW pedals.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Thanks guys. Yeah Bob, I remember either you or Chad talking about that. Fortunately on the DBW pedal, there is a ledge on the back of the housing that acts as a stop for the pedal arm. I can fasten a plastic or metal spacer on that ledge to act as a stop without having to do something elaborate attached to the floor or frame.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks guys. Yeah Bob, I remember either you or Chad talking about that. Fortunately on the DBW pedal, there is a ledge on the back of the housing that acts as a stop for the pedal arm. I can fasten a plastic or metal spacer on that ledge to act as a stop without having to do something elaborate attached to the floor or frame.

Hindsight,
Sounds like you have the plastic pedal.
If you put the stop near the bottom screw mount, I would be afraid of breaking off the pedal with my fat feet.
07 pedal.jpg
You can see the standard pedal stop in this picture. It is just below the gas pedal.
pedal stop.jpg
Bob

[Hindsight]

Yeah originally I was going to do what you show in the second pic but when I saw the "ledge" yesterday while installing the pedal, I thought I'd just put it there instead. I feel like the pedal is quite a ways from the body and frame, and it would be tough to make something really strong that also had a good attachment point to the body and frame. I'll have to look at it more now that the pedal is actually mounted. Thanks for the pics!

[wleehendrick]

Im planning a standoff mounted on the firewall, coming out perpendicular for a pedal stop. Mounted like that, all force on it will be in compression, so a 3d printed part should be plenty strong. I wouldnt mount an additive process part on the side as the shear forces would require a beefier material.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is my pedal stop.
Bobs_pedal_ stops.jpg

[Hindsight]

Rear brakes are now fully installed. I bent the backing plates a bit when pressing the old wheel bearings out. I didn't think much of it at the time because I had forgotten the rear calipers actually mount to the backing plate which is not something I've ever seen before and is a strange design in my opinion. When I pressed the bearings out, I tried to figure out a way to get the spindle situated in my press that didn't result in pressure being applied to the backing plates but couldn't come up with anything. Now my calipers aren't perfectly centered to the disc which isn't ideal. It looks like there may be a little bit of friction on the inside pad when the wheel is bolted on but it doesn't look like much and the pad should wear quickly to adjust for it. I may buy new backing plates at some point but since you can't install them without pulling the hub, I'm going to call it good for now.

Rear firewall is in place. Used aluminum with some thin foam tape between it and the frame to prevent rattles, and screwed the aluminum to the frame with self tapping sheet metal screws. It comes off in four pieces and is made that way so I can easily remove it with the engine in the car. I have some DEI insulation on order that I will cover the firewall with.




Next up is going to be all tasks required to get the engine into the car. That includes wiring harness diet, bolting all the stuff back on to the engine that I previously took off to modify, adding the coolant bleeder fitting, AOS parts, flywheel and clutch, etc. Hoping I should have the engine in the car within a month.

[FFRSpec72]

Looking good, what's next ? Brake lines ?