Sizing a Coyote Footbox

[DaleG]

DaleG,

Spacers from Whitby won't be here until the middle of next week. I bought some M14-2.0 nuts and washers for bolting the motor mounts to the frame. This way I don't have to us the nylon locking bolts that came with the kit at this time. I'll save those for the permanent mount. I'll put the spacers on next week. I just want to get the engine in for now.

Thanks for the reminder.

Damien

You may want to stack 3/8" worth of washers, or some other temporary shim material. I'm concerned that without the shims the crankshaft pulley may hit the 4" cross-member, and/or the short caddy oil filter (if you are using that instead of the oil filter relocator) will bottom out on the 4" rail.. If not an issue for you, never mind. Its a neat milestone getting the engine in.

Cheers, Dale

[2bking]

My wife and I are going to drop the engine

That ought to fun to watch and expensive.

[4.6 litre]

DaleG said:

NOTE: You'll have to change the oil filter; Pick up a filter for a Napa 7060 or equivalent. It is a filter for a 2010-2012 Cadillac CTS-V. It's stubbier; the one that came with the crate will not fit in the chassis. Using the shorter filter is easier than using the filter relocator supplied with the kit.

Well I tried to drop-in the engine with the old oil filter. The filter wouldn't clear the 4 inch round main tube. Look at the pic,



We tried this twice today with the temperature in the 90s and my wife was still loving it.

I'll buy the replacement filter, just tried to sneak one by.

Regards,

Damien

[2bking]

Nice to have the wife involved. I'm thinking she is going to be your riding buddy.

[DaleG]

Have to give the CTS-V oil filter credit to bansheekev; I'm pretty sure he's the one that first mentioned it...among many other Coyote solutions.

[4.6 litre]

Nice to have the wife involved. I'm thinking she is going to be your riding buddy.

King,

The guys just love her because she can talk shop. She's also remodeling the bathroom. She's using a contractor but she has laid out the cabinets, bought the sinks and fixtures. We're competing for garage space.

Regards,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Have to give the CTS-V oil filter credit to bansheekev; I'm pretty sure he's the one that first mentioned it...among many other Coyote solutions.

DaleG,

Can you change the filter without draining the oil? If the filter is above the oil level in the pan it shouldn't be to messy? I'm want to drop the engine in ASAP. (I'll deal with changing the oil and the putting in the Moroso oil pan later. However if I have to drain the oil to change the filter I might as well change out the oil pan also.)

Regards,

Damien

[DaleG]

DaleG,

Can you change the filter without draining the oil? If the filter is above the oil level in the pan it shouldn't be to messy? I'm want to drop the engine in ASAP. (I'll deal with changing the oil and the putting in the Moroso oil pan later. However if I have to drain the oil to change the filter I might as well change out the oil pan also.)

Regards,

Damien

No Problem. Not too messy; rags on the floor. Check oil level after changing the filter.

[4.6 litre]

No Problem. Not too messy; rags on the floor. Check oil level after changing the filter.

DaleG,

Thank you. I have my filter and 4-M14 washers (0.390) for each bolt. I'm retired but my auto assistant (my wife) is still working full-time. I'll have to put in a work request for some of her time, not sure which charge number to use. At the present time she's already overcharging. I guess I'll need to do more honey dues to balance the account.

Regards,

Damien

[DaleG]

Roger that, Damien.

[4.6 litre]

Guys,

Just got back from Charleston and Savannah. It's part of my wife's Tour of the South.

Now it's back to work.

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Shims Arrived

The Coyote shims arrived today and below are a few pic’s:



We tried installing the engine by using washers instead of the shims, since they were not available at that time. We had a small accident with the Coyote and decided to wait for the shims. That was the cause for the long delay. I sent some photos of the engine to Mike Forte to look at the damage. Haven’t heard back yet, but there were only scratches and a bent tab on the original oil pan. I can post pictures if you’re interested.

Here are my lessons learned:
1. Don’t proceed unless you have all the correct parts.
2. Unless you can manufacture your own shims, buy them.
3. Use the smaller oil filter from the get-go and remove the exhaust manifold studs. If the studs had not been removed they would have gotten bent.
4. Unless it is an emergency, don’t distract the hoist operator while he’s lowering the engine.

Tomorrow we attempt once again to install the shims and Coyote.
We are optimistic and still married, so far …

[4.6 litre]

The Coyote engine is in. I guess I probably lost everyone on this threat. I'm attaching pics of the engine. I hope I didn't scare anyone with my previous thread. My pride was hurt more than the engine.







Once I remove the hoist, leveler and chains I'll post pics of the engine compartment.



Happy and humbled,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Attached are pic's of the exterior DS footbox with the replacement 4.6L inside vertical panel...close fit.
The Whitby 3/8 shims are installed.





I'm going to start looking at 2BKings panel mods.

Damien

[DaleG]

Re the 3/8" shims; the slots are facing the front of the car, correct?

Looks great! Have enjoyed this; I'm ready to drop the engine in for the fourth - and hopefully last, for a while - time. Except for the first time, I pull/install by myself, but always make sure someone is home and knows to check on me once in a while until I'm done.

[4.6 litre]

Re the 3/8" shims; the slots are facing the front of the car, correct?

Looks great! Have enjoyed this; I'm ready to drop the engine in for the fourth - and hopefully last, for a while - time. Except for the first time, I pull/install by myself, but always make sure someone is home and knows to check on me once in a while until I'm done.

Dale,

Yes, the shim slots are facing the front. We put the shims on the motor mounts and the engine just slid in. My wife guided the engine in and then she did the happy dance. I talked to your good buddy (Mike Forte) today. He said my engine looked just fine and their wasn't really anything to worry about. I'm going to be looking at 2bking's mods.

Thanks and regards,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Attached are some pics of the PS FB with the Coyote engine. There is ample room to expand the FB.
There are many ways to make the FB mod. I've looked at many mods over the past year but once you have the situation at hand, you begin to understand why builders have done it differently. I wrote 2bking a PM stating that I want to take the easy way out even if if it means spending a couple hundred dollars. I believe it will be worth it. So I'll be investigating this. In the meantime I will be going back to my Build Thread. It's time to starting building the roadster by the manual. Hope springs eternal...





Regards,

Damien

[DaleG]

Terrific job, Damien (and wife)! Big milestone behind you. I know I'm going to regret not doing the PS footbox mod.

[Jester]

Damien,

I maxed out the PS mod utilizing most of the space between the block/headers and the PS foot box however I did not extend the PS footbox to match the forward distance of the DS footbox. If I were to do it again I would extend forward to match the DS footbox (allows more room foe passengers with longer legs) - no reason not to extend forward.

I have had several 6ft plus passengers and although they were comfortable, the additional space at the front of the foot box would be nice to have.

[4.6 litre]

Damien,

I maxed out the PS mod utilizing most of the space between the block/headers and the PS foot box however I did not extend the PS footbox to match the forward distance of the DS footbox. If I were to do it again I would extend forward to match the DS footbox (allows more room foe passengers with longer legs) - no reason not to extend forward.

I have had several 6ft plus passengers and although they were comfortable, the additional space at the front of the foot box would be nice to have.

Jester,

Thanks for the information. I don’t want to lose sight of the passenger side mods. I was wondering what my next step would be and I just got a PM from 2bking that I want to share in part, “Since you have the engine in, put the DS header on and see how much room is at the corner of the foot box. This is where the headers are the closes to the sheet metal once installed. I suspect they will almost touch there. This will be your decision point of moving the ¾” tube or not. Take some pictures for posting……The PS foot box mod I did was for added foot box room and access to the header nuts. If you decide to work that area over, there are several mods available besides mine.”

I have custom SS headers so it will be good to fit them up. It looks like we’re all on board. I've got some work to do on the car………., “I’ll be back.”

Damien

[4.6 litre]

This part is a work in progress and I will provide my thoughts and await your comments. The fit up is experimental to highlight some difficulties I've encountered.
Here is what I did on the driver’s side foot box:

A (no photograph taken)
1. Installed all the manifold studs.
2. Installed the front panel
3. Installed the 4.6L interior vertical panel
4. Tried installing the SS header. It wouldn't fit. The nearest manifold exhaust tube hit the ¾ inch front FB interior square tube.

Conclusion: you can’t install the headers with all the studs previously installed. Possible remedy is to use bolts instead of the studs, or maybe install studs, one at a time while holding the header in place.

B
1. Installed the front panel.
2. Installed the SS manifold using just the first and then the last upper stud on the manifold. I could have installed all the other studs one at a time but decided to go with just two to save time.
3. Installed the 4.6L interior vertical panel. (Problem – the lower flap on the interior panel could not go under the front panel because the header prevented any forward movement of the front panel.
4. Continued to install the 4.6L interior vertical panel with the lower flap over the front panel.
5. Installed the remaining panels.

Conclusion: If I wanted to use the 4.6L panel as is, I will have to pull the interior panel away from the engine, and make an access cutout in the 4.6L panel to gain access to the studs while also extending the interior foot space of the FB. Another option is to implement one of 2bking's mods.



If you look at all the mods for the DS FB, the builders have pulled in the side of the 4.6L panel, made access cutouts and also redesigned a whole new panel. They should all work. It all boils down to your choice. This is a good exercise for me. It helps to understand all the difficulties involved.

• Note the dip stick is always out in the pics. It interferes with the DS front and interior side panel – not a biggie just a pain.

[4.6 litre]

Based upon the information provided in Post 61 above, how did all you coyote builders install the manifold studs and the exhaust manifolds? At the present that's a problem.

At the present time I don't think I can use the 4.6L panel. The spacing between this panel and the engine is still too close. So I'm going to get full scale printout of 2bkings mods.

I would appreciate your feedback on installing the manifold with studs.

Thanks,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

I've reviewed some PM's from 2bking. In Part A of Post 61 I verified that the 4.6L panel can not be installed with all the studs in place because the custom Stainless Header's (Mfg) hit the inside 3/4 inch square tube however in Part B if you remove all the studs with only the front panel in place you can install the manifold by installing the studs one at a time. Then you can install the 4.6L panel with the lower front flap overlapping the front panel. The only other problem with this is that the upper rear of the 4.6L panel is still too close to the engine. I was contemplating putting insulation on the exterior of the 4.6L panel but there will probably not be enough space to do this. This is why I decided not to use the 4.6L panel.

So I'm going to use 2bkings templates. One template requires moving the front FB engine side 3/4inch tube and the other does not require moving it. Since I am mechanically challenged I'll only remove the 3/4 inch tube if nothing else works. Either way I can always install a cut out box to access the interior studs if necssary.

I'll be back.

Damien

[DaleG]

From a fellow builder; worked for me:

The Ford studs are an E8 Torx socket. That makes them easy to remove.

All the studs can be used on the passenger side.
On the drivers side, all the studs need to be removed to slide the headers on. I then used the studs because they thread in easier where I could. The DS looks like this from front to back:
Top Row: Stud, bolt, stud, stud.
Bottom Row: Stud, bolt, bolt, bolt.

I also have the Stainless headers.

[2bking]

Based upon the information provided in Post 61 above, how did all you coyote builders install the manifold studs and the exhaust manifolds?

I'm a fan of not removing the studs due to the possibility of stripping the threads in the heads at a later time after a few remove and install cycles. One of my objectives when working on the sheet metal mod was to provide access to the header attachment hardware and allow the headers to be installed on the studs. I'll admit I thought I had accomplished that but after the rivets were installed and the sheet metal couldn't move, clearances were less than anticipated. By loosing the nuts holding the motor mounts to the frame and jacking the engine up on the DS side, I was able the put the DS header on the studs. To gain enough clearance to install the DS header without having to raise the engine, I trimmed the studs. The picture below is the first amount which worked but I then took another 1/8" off to make a little more clearance. I still have about two threads showing when the nuts are installed.

2014-09-20studsd.jpg

[4.6 litre]

DaleG & 2bking,

I was reading your responses to my wife since she is my helper. She truly sees the wisdom in your responses. She says "these guys are really smart.....can we adopt them.....can they move to Huntsville, AL?"

Since I have all this good advice, it's onward and upward.

Thanks and regards,

Damien

[DaleG]

DaleG & 2bking,

I was reading your responses to my wife since she is my helper. She truly sees the wisdom in your responses. She says "these guys are really smart.....can we adopt them.....can they move to Huntsville, AL?"

Since I have all this good advice, it's onward and upward.

Thanks and regards,

Damien

Would I get my own room, or would I have share one with King? An allowance?.

Cheers, Dale

[4.6 litre]

Would I get my own room, or would I have share one with King? An allowance?.

Cheers, Dale

Great response, laughed my butt off. My wife enjoyed it too.

Regards,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Getting quotes for 2bking's mods. I just need to line up the most cost effective vendor. I can give the vendor the final drawing package later that will include the PS mods. I have no idea what the lead-time will be like so after I receive the fabricated panels, I'll either start a new thread on installation or include it on my build thread.

I need to start building my car per the manual. I have a build thread on the Roadster Forum so that's where I'' be next. Hope to see you guys on that. You all have been really helpful and I'm glad you've shared your building experiences with me. I couldn't have done this without your expertise and insight.

Much thanks,

Damien

[4.6 litre]

Guys,

I just received my modified chassis for incorporating 2bkings DS FB panel and TKO mid shifter mods.

The following photographs show the DS FB front right 3/4" square tube relocated about 3/4" back toward the firewall to allow installation of 2bking's interior vertical Coyote engine panel.





The next picture shows the upper 3/4" square transmission tunnel tube relocated to accommodate the TKO 600 mid shifter.



The next picture shows the addition of a 3/4" square tube which allows me to notch the original tube to make clearance for the clutch pedal throw.



I have received all of 2bkings modified DS and PS Coyote FB panels. Next step is to fit, drill and powder coat the panels. I'll be picking that up on Damien's Coyote Build thread.

Regards,