Time to torque?

[jaw777]

I have a novice question. When are guys/gals torquing down the suspension bolts to spec? I saw somewhere that you wanted the chassis at ride height before torquing down the suspension bolts. If so, I would assume then that you want the tires you plan to run on it before you set the ride height? Do you get them pretty snug before setting the chassis on wheels? Any particular order to tightening them down?

Also, I have replaced most or all suspension bolts with grade 8 bolts. Most of the nuts I am using have the nylon inserts. Is this adequate? I was planning on using thread lock in addition to the nylon nuts. Is that overkill? Also, If I do not have a nylon nut is a grade 8 lock washer and thread lock adequate? Or is the lock washer overkill?

Sorry about the nubie questions, but I don't want something coming apart at any speed, much less high speed. I also don't want to be taking this apart and putting it back together any more than I need to.

Thanks for your responses.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I have a novice question. When are guys/gals torquing down the suspension bolts to spec? I saw somewhere that you wanted the chassis at ride height before torquing down the suspension bolts. If so, I would assume then that you want the tires you plan to run on it before you set the ride height? Do you get them pretty snug before setting the chassis on wheels? Any particular order to tightening them down?

Also, I have replaced most or all suspension bolts with grade 8 bolts. Most of the nuts I am using have the nylon inserts. Is this adequate? I was planning on using thread lock in addition to the nylon nuts. Is that overkill? Also, If I do not have a nylon nut is a grade 8 lock washer and thread lock adequate? Or is the lock washer overkill?

Sorry about the nubie questions, but I don't want something coming apart at any speed, much less high speed. I also don't want to be taking this apart and putting it back together any more than I need to.

Thanks for your responses.

Hi jaw777,
I give you my answers, but I warn you that some of these are just my opinion and other might disagree.

Your first question:
I saw somewhere that you wanted the chassis at ride height before torquing down the suspension bolts. The only nuts this is necessary is the big nut on the fire wall end of the of the LCA (lower control arm) and the bolts that go through rubber bushings. This is so the bushing rubber only twist so many degrees in each direction. My opinion: Just raise your suspension until mid shock travel and then tighten away. No particular order on the rest of the suspension bolts.

Also, I have replaced most or all suspension bolts with grade 8 bolts. Most of the nuts I am using have the nylon inserts. Is this adequate?
This is the same as I did and I think adequate. There are some out there that would safety wire every suspension bolt.

I was planning on using thread lock in addition to the nylon nuts. Is that overkill? Also, If I do not have a nylon nut is a grade 8 lock washer and thread lock adequate? Or is the lock washer overkill?
I trust NyLocks. So in my opinion, thread locker a lock washers is overkill.
If I don't have a particular size NyLock, I would order one.

I usually look for a thicker nut with a flange, like this.
images.jpg

Hope this helps
Bob

[Jeff Kleiner]

Do not use thread locker on Nylocks; it can attack &/or soften the insert which then renders them ineffective. In situations where a Nylock is not used a conventional nut with thread locker backed up with a hard washer is sufficient.

Jeff

[metros]

Did you happen to create a list of the bolt sizes/lengths that you were upgrading?

Another question pertinent to this thread. At what point is it likely you won't have to remove suspension for other steps in the build? Once you get the engine in?

[jaw777]

Thanks for your responses. Got it, no thread lock for nylon nuts.

I basically, made a list of bolts based on my donor car parts and ordered them in a number of sizes/lengths from BoltDepot.com so they would be ready when my kit arrived. Great prices, but shipping is a killer so order everything at one time. (I was probably too anxious and could have saved some money by just ordering what I needed) I was trying to stay all metric before I realized that the kit is a mix of English and metric. Since then I have been running up to Sears where they have a good selection of grade 8 English bolts in stock. My son and I just can't see putting a bunch of used bolts in a new build.

I did not create a list of bolt sizes that I upgraded, but I will. I'd like to contribute to the community any way I can.

I am also interested in when you won't have to remove suspension for other steps. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that you don't want to keep tightening and loosening nylon nuts.

[STiPWRD]

I am also interested in when you won't have to remove suspension for other steps. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that you don't want to keep tightening and loosening nylon nuts.

Correct, fasteners with a locking feature typically have a certain number of install/uninstall cycles before the locking feature effectiveness degrades (sometimes its 5 cycles, sometimes it's 20, depends on the type of locking feature). Also, keep in mind that the proper way to torque a fastener with a locking feature is to measure the running torque of the bolt as the locking feature engages (usually with a dial torque wrench) but before the bolt it fully tightened and add the running torque to the prescribed torque value.

[FFRSpec72]

For my sanity/safety I use Torque Seal (paint marker) on each nut I torque, so that I know it has been done, thus it's easy to spot a nut that has not been torqued

[Mechie3]

I didn't torque anything until the end. I never knew if I had to undo something or not so I put it all, made it hand tight with tools so it would stay together. When I was ready to move onto the body I went and torqued everything down all at once. No need to track if I had torqued something then undone it and not retorqued it.

[AZPete]

Torque Seal . . . or nail polish also works. Don't tell my wife.

[wleehendrick]

Ray (a roadster builder and moderator on here) came over to give me a hand and give me a tip for the concerned/paranoid about suspension bolts. Use a paint pen to make a line over the nut/bolt after torquing. With periodic inspection, you can see if any start to back out.

[RM1SepEx]

I also mark them with paint pen when torqued... old racer trick

[jaw777]

OK - Here are a list of bolts that I used to replace the OEM suspension bolts. All bolts are Grade 8 or zinc plated class 10.9 and almost all have the nylon inserts. I tried to size the bolts so they fit snugly in their respective sleeves or chassis connections without having to force them in. I also tried to get the lengths correct so that they appeared to fit the vehicle. Sorry about the English metric mix. My donor was a 2002 WRX wagon.

Front Lower Control Arm
4 bolts connect the front lower control arms to the chassis: 1/2 x 20 x 1.5"
lower control arm rear bushing to chassis: 12mm x 1.25 x 90mm

Front Spindle to 818 kit hardware
Upper Bolt: 5/8 x 18 x 2.5" (A 14mm bolt had too much play for me)
Lower Bolt: 14mm x 1.5 x 60mm

Rear Lateral Links to Chassis
I used the 818 adjustable lateral links in the front and it includes a sleeve: 12mm x 1.25 x 60mm (This may be a tad short for some, but space is limited.)
I reused the donor lateral link in the rear: 14mm x 1.5 x 60mm
Rear lateral links to rear spindle: I ordered through a Subaru dealer (Very expensive but I destroyed the donor bolts getting them out.)

Rear Trailing Arm
Rear Trailing Arm to Chassis: 12mm x 1.25 x 80mm
Rear Trailing Arm to Spindle: 12mm x 1.25 x 70mm

[longislandwrx]

I used M14s for the "4 bolts connect the front lower control arms to the chassis: 1/2 x 20 x 1.5"

The fit was good, m16s might have even fit, I may try this when I have a chance. Since I have a few left over.

[Goldwing]

I used a couple 5/8" (very close to 16mm) bolts there and a couple smaller ones that are likely M14s. If I drilled the holes out, I could have used all 5/8" bolts at all 4 points. I wanted one on each side to fill the entire hole to prevent the mount from walking over time. Once a 5/8" bolt was in, the other hole wasn't aligned with the wing mount. I used the largest that would fit the remaining space.

[Cobradavid]

I also mark them with paint pen when torqued.

X2 Best way to make sure you "remember" which ones have been torqued and which ones have not.

David