Oil issues: Dry Sump, Accusump for road racing?

[Sgt.Gator]

I don't think Cosworth Engineering would refer to theirs as a pseudo dry sump. The only difference between the Cosworth system and mine is they add a vacuum regulator to relieve vacuum suction if it gets too high. And a better pulley/belt system, (and a few other details that would cause me to buy their's if I ever do this again). But theirs relies on the engine's OEM style oil pump too.

[C.Plavan]

These are real dry sumps. Unless you call Porsche 911 motors from 1965 -1998 Pseudo dry sumps.

[Sgt.Gator]

I have been talking to a gentleman from the Netherlands who is with Saker Race cars which use a EJ engine and are pulling lateral g of 1.7 m/s2 using a wet sump. We have been discussing the solutions that they have come up with and the issues that they have had. As I get more information I will pass it along.
What has been really positive is as I have waded through the BS the direction I have taken is pretty much inline with Saker has been successful doing.
http://sakersportscars.com/?lang=en

Cool looking cars. Please tell us more about their wet sump solution!

[Mitch Wright]

They are a good looking car's.

Gerrit will be sending me some photo's. From the discription he has given they have found an effective method to baffle the sump along with adding some capacity. They are also using a catch can or AOS that drains back to the engine.
Once i have more details I will pass them along. I think the path I have started down is similar what I want to see is what Sakar is doing with the baffles in the pan.

[RetroRacing]

We have a saker in our stable, check out our website for some pics, or let me know what pics you want. Wet sump, trick baffled pan with lots of trap doors, putting in paddle shift now due to second blown engine due to missed shift
Should be back on track this year, owner has way too much money invested in custom stuff not to see some track time soon
If you guys are interested, I'll put together a more detailed post
Www.retroreacingteam.com

[Scargo]

I am moving comments from Chad Plavan's thread to here at the suggestion of Sgt.Gator., starting with this comment of his, copied to below. He showed this Cosworth setup.
"I'm betting on the underdrive pulley slowing down the DS pump.
Here's a great pic of the Cosworth system stripped down to the bare essentials at SEMA 2014. Note how small the drive mandrel is in relation to the crank pulley behind it, and how large the DS pump pulley is. Now consider that the Element Tuning DS pump is being driven by the stock crank pulley, and even with the underdrive pulley Chad and I both installed, it's no where near the reduction that Cosworth mandrel is giving. But we both have cured the problem with the moderately underdriven pulley. Makes me want to fabricate an even smaller crank pulley or a larger DS drive pulley."
In response I said:
That's an interesting theory. Did you just change that one thing (drive pulley downsized) and that resulted in the lower oil temps?
In theory, you have been over-scavenging the engine? Is this where aeration is suspected to be the culprit in overheating or something else?
Was vacuum on the case ever measured when closed? I've read that three or four scavenging stages may be needed to pull close to 10 inches*. Again, wouldn't this depend on whose pumps and how fast are they are driven?
What scavenging pumps are in the Cosworth two-stage DS scavenging system Vs Element Tuning's two-stage which uses Aviad scavenging pumps? Are we comparing apples to apples volume-wise and design-wise? Does ET leave you to run whatever oil pump you want?
From Cosworth:

20009093

Subaru 2008+ STI (EJ25) Blueprinted Oil Pump with high pressure mod .& install kit (11mm Rotor)

20001185

Subaru (EJ20/EJ25) High Volume/Pressure Blueprinted Oil Pump & install kit (12mm Rotor)

You don't get an oil pump with the Cosworth or ET system either, so Cosworth offers those two... (I don't see anyone suggesting a 10mm pump).
Anyone know what their systems are capable of or are actually delivering Vs the chart data in my post above on the Subaru pumps? *Aviad looks to offer pumps that do from .6" to 2" Hg. Again at what speed and what volume?

I wish I had more answers instead of questions. There are variables, but one would think this is not rocket science.
To which Sgt.Gator replied: "Like Chad, for the most part I changed more than one thing at a time. It's all detailed over in the other thread.
I don't know if "overscavenging" is the correct term. Maybe spinning the the DS pump too fast causes it to suck up too much air when there's not enough oil in the pan; maybe spinning it too fast causes the DS pump to cavitate. (John at Aviad pumps says you can spin them at 15,000 rpm before cavitation happens though.)
Yes I've measured vacuum in my sealed-closed system. Yes I pull plenty of vacuum. It's all documented in the R forum thread. The people who are writing that you need 4 scavenge pumps to pull vacuum either have never done it and are speculating, or they have done it on loosely built high HP blocks with very high turbo boost/blowby and are correct, they couldn't get enough seal to create a vacuum. But since Cosworth builds very high HP loose built long block racing engines and only use a two stage scavenge that creates enough vacuum that they include a relief regulator, I think it's more likely those writers never tried it!
I have no data comparing the pump specs between Aviad and Cosworth. If you can find that info it would good to know.
The Cosworth oil pumps in your post are intended for high HP all forged loose tolerance race built Dual AVCS engines, like their $15,000 longblocks. In my case I run a stock OEM shortblock with much tighter tolerances, single AVCS heads, so I use the oem 10mm pump."

I kinda got involved in the reason behind the oil overheating issue, and why, when I posted this:
Originally Posted by apexanimal
i'm inclined to think that it was the 11cm oil pump... i've read too many posts about the issues with running them on engines that aren't setup for them from factory...



"I'd like to see something documenting this. I've heard just the opposite for a built motor.
It's an 11mm pump, not 11cm.
There seems to be a feeling among some that a 12mm pump is too much, though it might be appropriate for some applications where clearances, oil viscosity and many other items are set up for it.
Also, a DAVCS motor that diverts some oil to the second set of cam actuators, over an AVCS motor (or a non-AVCS motor) could use some additional flow, or a motor with external plumbing, reservoir, filter, thermostat, etc. would have its flow impeded and might could use the extra pressure to achieve the same flow.
This is from Jeff Sponaugle of PDXTuning.com, who is on here and building an 818. This is from 2007. Perhaps Jeff can comment on this, especially since we are 8+ years down the road?

Note that there is no oil viscosity or temperature referenced for this chart.
Also note that the data stops at 6000 RPM. What happens when you turn 7, 8 or even 9K? It might be extrapolated to some degree of accuracy.
Another thing is that many custom engine builders of note modify the passages and galleys in the case as well as porting the oil pump and changing the relief pressure shims and not going exactly by the book when it comes to bearing clearances. Often the mains are not identically clearanced."

Now, I'd like to pick back up this conversation for discussion by saying that I don't find all the answers here, in this thread. I don't know what the specs are for the Aviad pumps or the Cosworth pumps. I don't know what the drive ratio is that Element Tuning or Cosworth use. If the pump spinning too fast causes the overheating, then why?
I hope that I can learn enough that I have confidence when I go to make my DS purchase. As it is, I don't feel like I know what to ask for when it comes to the capabilities of the pumps. I don't know what Aviad pumps are in the ET kit. Are they the ones with internal regulation? I plan on turning 8.5~9K RPM. How will this affect my decisions about pumps?

[killerbmotorsport]

I find it a little humorous that most builders like Killer Bee, say you must have multiple scavenge pumps to be able to handle all the positive blow by pressure because there is too much positive pressure for the Element Tuning and Cosworth pumps to keep up. And now ARE is saying to vent the engine block because you will create too MUCH negative pressure!
Obviously dry sumps on Subarus is still an Art and not a Science!

Sgt, re-read what I wrote... or I can save you a few steps... Two scavenge pumps isn't enough to create significant vacuum and may not be enough to overcome positive pressure. This is a generalized statement. With an OEM block I'm not surprised you're seeing decent results, but with a built engine with larger P/W clearances, bigger ring-end gaps, and pushing more power (blow-by gasses) and RPMs you'll not find the results to be as positive. Whereas a WS system with turbo provided vacuum will still pull >2" of vacuum on the built engine setup.

One of my next searches will be to see if there is a better piston ring combo for DS. I'm going to start with calling Total Seal. Some research has indicated that that's the case.
I'm certainly hoping for discussion and debate, especially from those with experience, and stand to be corrected, as 98% of this is "from the internet".

Like many aspects of an engine 'build', the ring packs should be custom tailored to the application. With vacuum or piston porting (or both) you can run lower tension rings giving the benefit of less friction and wear. Total seal will probably push you in a certain direction as their gap-less product does not lend itself well to porting. My guess is you're going to contact more than one ring manufacturer to get a well rounded education on ring selection

Now, I'd like to pick back up this conversation for discussion by saying that I don't find all the answers here, in this thread. I don't know what the specs are for the Aviad pumps or the Cosworth pumps. I don't know what the drive ratio is that Element Tuning or Cosworth use. If the pump spinning too fast causes the overheating, then why?
I hope that I can learn enough that I have confidence when I go to make my DS purchase. As it is, I don't feel like I know what to ask for when it comes to the capabilities of the pumps. I don't know what Aviad pumps are in the ET kit. Are they the ones with internal regulation? I plan on turning 8.5~9K RPM. How will this affect my decisions about pumps?[/COLOR]

Same holds true here. You're going to have to make some calls and pester a few people until you make your way to the people that can give you the specs, not just tell you why their stuff is great. As you filter through the process, the product(s) or process that fits your needs (or doesn't) will become more clear. And after all that is said and done... like sgt experienced... there are no absolutes in custom engine setups. You may likely need to 'dial-in' your final choice for optimum performance.

[Scargo]

One thing would be nice to get advice on, if anyone has it, is the dry sump pump drive ratio. I feel I'm getting into the weeds again since there are many manufacturers. Still, the oil pressure and scavenging/suction pumps must be driven together (normally).
I am reading that most oil pumps are driven at about half crankshaft speed, ranging from 45 to 57 percent of crank speed. The slower the pump can be turned to produce a given rate of flow, the more efficiently it operates and the less horsepower it consumes. Mick the Ginge was running a Peterson setup at 56.25%. I believe he was running something like 8K RPMs.

[Sgt.Gator]

Scargo, The Element Tuning and Cosworth systems are both scavenge only. The engine oil pressure side is still done by the oem oil pump. If you want to go with the DS system providing engine oil pressure that adds a lot more to the equation.

[Sgt.Gator]

My Aviaid DS pump has developed a knock in it. It's probably my fault, I may have tightened the "fan" belt too tight and now the bearing is gone or the shaft has a wobble. I'm going to remove it from the LGT and go back to a Killer Bee wet sump, I have a spare KB pan from a Spec B I bought last year. My LGT Wagon rarely get's over 1.4 Gs so I'm not as concerned as I would be with an 818. If I were to use this system again I would tighten the belt just barely tight enough to not get slippage. That would take a day of testing at the track because the system has to be really hot to get it set right. My bad.

Another reason is there is no place to mount the DS tank in the engine compartment of a Legacy. Having it next to me in the passenger seat area was brutal on a summer day. It radiates heat like having an oven blowing on me. In a WRX/STI you could put it in the trunk and wall off the heat, in a wagon I'd have to build an enclosure then hook a powered vent system to blow the hot air out of the interior. Too much to deal with!

Having been down the DS road what I would do differently:

I would NOT use a system that uses an oem style serpentine belt off an oem style crank pulley. The OEM crank pulley is too large to run the DS pump at the desired 50% of crank speed.

I would use the Cosworth if it's still available, otherwise Aviaid, ARE, or Dailey that are entire systems designed for a Subaru that use a belt drive with teeth. They all use a small mandrel off the crank to turn the DS pump at the correct speed. The Cosworth has the advantage of being specifically designed to fit the Subaru engine. There are several small things that at first I didn't appreciate when I was comparing the systems, but now looking back those little things would have made the installation and maintenance easier.

[Scargo]

Sorry to hear about the problems but so appreciate you sharing. The Dailey pumps are driven off a toothed idle sprocket, not the crank. Still haven't pulled the trigger on a DS system but still want Dailey's.
Fairly soon I will be trying out my new custom setup in my STi track car. I ported, matched, radiused and smoothed everything related to the oiling system, including galleries, pump and the feed to the filter area. I blocked my 12mm pump (with deep back plate) from bypassing and am using an external Peterson bypass valve at the back of the right gallery. Through the Peterson valve it feeds my Accusump and the bypass oil goes into the oil fill tube. The rest of my stuff is KillerB.
The Dailey DS system runs off the toothed idler pulley next to the water pump.
dailey drive.pngdailey drive.jpg

[Mulry]

Downsides of the Dailey system: very spendy and requires a custom set of headers. That said, I checked it out at PRI & it is a very nice piece of kit.

[Sgt.Gator]

I decided to give my dry sump one more shot. John at Aviaid sent me a new pump, this time with a larger 4.5" pulley from Jones Racing (The Element Tuning system comes with a 4" ARE pulley). John also sells a 5", 5.5"., and 6" but didn't have them in stock and I needed it right away for racing this coming weekend. I'm sending my old pump back to be rebuilt by him ($80 plus parts). I'll order a 5.5" pulley to try too.
Between the larger pump pulley and the underdrive crank pulley at least the pump will be spinning slightly slower than crank speed.

Not 818 related but I think I found a way to reduce the heat from the tank in my Legacy by mounting the tank halfway thru the floorboard behind the driver where the OEM fuel pump inspection plate is. I've ordered the parts and will be doing that mod after the races next weekend.

The DS learning goes on !

[Sgt.Gator]

I sold the LGT race car after I blew the engine <again a Pacific Raceways>. This time I'm 99% sure it wasn't an oiling issue but I won't know for sure for awhile because a friend bought the car from me 15 minutes after the engine blew! I won't know what happened for sure until he tears it down and that could be a long time from now.

I immediately bought a 2005 STI race car that another friend has been racing for a few years and now is moving to Spec E46. For that car and/or a 818R I bought possibly the last new Cosworth DS system in the US. I have confirmed with Cosworth that it has been discontinued.

The Cosworth parts are awesome. They are machined beautifully. The engineering total package is clearly several steps above the other Subaru DS systems I've examined. Too bad they aren't making them anymore.
I'm looking at taking the best features of all these systems and combining them into a system that will work for 818s, BRZs, and WRX/STI. I'll keep ya'll informed as prototypes become available for testing. Ultimately I want to build a 818R with an NA FA20 using WRX case halves and a DS. But first up will be the EJ257.

One question for the 818: How much space is their between the face of the crank pulley and the firewall or frame pieces? Some of these systems poke out the front of the engine further than the stock crank pulley. Thanks.

[Scargo]

How serious was the blown engine and what do you think happened? What were the engine's specs?
It will be very interesting to see what you do with the Cosworth DS system. Would love to see an actual installation and details.

[Sgt.Gator]

How serious was the blown engine and what do you think happened? What were the engine's specs?
It will be very interesting to see what you do with the Cosworth DS system. Would love to see an actual installation and details.

Towed back to Paddock. try to turn engine over to hear what may be wrong:
Wife: "Honey, you're engine sounds like it has rocks in it."
Yes it does. And many of the rocks seem to banging around under the timing covers. I suspect that when the engine was re-built last year the Subaru tech probably didn't put Loctite on the timing belt tensioner bolt. Gates has posted an alert that you must use Loctitie on that bolt or it might back out. They even include loctitie in the kits now.
The factory service manual does NOT call for using loctitie on that bolt, so I can't blame the factory tech for following the FSM. And unfortunantely I didn't know about this alert until i was rebuilding the engine myself in my Spec B several months later. Personally I think you should use Loctitie on every bolt in the timing belt sysytem.
Here's the PDF: https://www.gates.com/~/media/files/...ru_loctite.pdf

[Sgt.Gator]

Check out this video: Subaru Isle of Man Challenge Car: Tech Specs with Mark Higgins
https://youtu.be/WuHuFaX5q4k

There's several interesting things they've done to the engine.

The TMIC has been replaced with a panel filter to feed the intake to the turbo. I like that idea, a true cold air intake. And it doesn't cause backflow/air stagnation for the radiator because all the air is going into the engine to be consumed, not pressurizing the engine compartment. Very Cool.

Power Steering cooler.

Looks like an Accusump on the pass fender panel.

IAT sensor in the cold side piping, but very far forward? Lots of other sensors around the engine bay.

Is that a fuel swirl pot mounted in the normal alternator space? Usually the swirl pot is not in the hot engine compartment but in this application it may not matter. have to think on this.

I can't figure out what looks like all the ignition wires on the two blocks on top of the engine?

And the cylinder head venting is interesting.

I'd love to spend 30 minutes up close examining what they've done.

Isle of Man TT 1.jpgIsle of Man TT 2.jpgIsle of Man TT 4.jpgIsle of Man TT 6.jpg

[EODTech87]

All the "ignition wires" appears to be the engine wiring harness but they are using Mil-Spec connectors to allow them to easily change out components without having to dig through a wiring harness.

[Scargo]

Did they say that it is dry-sumped?
I don't know what to make of the reservoir/tank next to the alternator, but I doubt it is related to fuel.
Not much stock left with the front end. Possibly aluminum fenders? Note the shock towers. Those look really angled back in the compartment. Caster to the max?
No coolant reservoir up top.
They likely have an EGT thermocouple on all cylinders. I just put one on my #4 cylinder. I moved my tiny alternator over like that but am running two belts; one for PS and one for the alternator. I did mine like that so I could reverse the intake. Slightly curious why they didn't do that. CAI on top is interesting/good.
The Subaru-backed Phoenix car (of 2011?) was not at near the level of sophistication of this car.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Check out this video: Subaru Isle of Man Challenge Car: Tech Specs with Mark Higgins
https://youtu.be/WuHuFaX5q4k

There's several interesting things they've done to the engine.

The TMIC has been replaced with a panel filter to feed the intake to the turbo. I like that idea, a true cold air intake. And it doesn't cause backflow/air stagnation for the radiator because all the air is going into the engine to be consumed, not pressurizing the engine compartment. Very Cool.

Power Steering cooler.

Looks like an Accusump on the pass fender panel.

IAT sensor in the cold side piping, but very far forward? Lots of other sensors around the engine bay.

Is that a fuel swirl pot mounted in the normal alternator space? Usually the swirl pot is not in the hot engine compartment but in this application it may not matter. have to think on this.

I can't figure out what looks like all the ignition wires on the two blocks on top of the engine?

And the cylinder head venting is interesting.

I'd love to spend 30 minutes up close examining what they've done.

Isle of Man TT 1.jpgIsle of Man TT 2.jpgIsle of Man TT 4.jpgIsle of Man TT 6.jpg

Here is a couple of better pictures for you to dissect.

Isle-of-Man-2016-Subaru-WRX-STI-engine-04.jpg Isle-of-Man-2016-Subaru-WRX-STI-engine-05.jpg Isle-of-Man-2016-Subaru-WRX-STI-engine-06.jpg

[Wayne Presley]

Check out this video: Subaru Isle of Man Challenge Car: Tech Specs with Mark Higgins
https://youtu.be/WuHuFaX5q4k



Looks like an Accusump on the pass fender panel.
?

Are you talking about the shocks remote reservoir

[Scargo]

There's an Accusump there, in blue, with some silver heat shielding on lower, inside. Below the turbo out-pipe to FMIC.
Also note the custom caps on the head vents.
Radiator looks tilted forward at the top.
Funny looking fuel rails that I don't recognize. Power steering pump I don't recognize.
Looks like a lightweight crank pulley.
The radiator tank looks to be custom and behind the intake manifold?

[Sgt.Gator]

Bob Thanks for those pics, they help a lot. Now I see it has a V-Mount setup. A V-Mount is where the FMIC is on top of the radiator, and the radiator is tilted to make room for the FMIC. There's several threads on them on NAsioc. Here's an aftermarket that does it: http://www.processwest.com.au/produc...cooling-system

Scargo I'm looking at that custom tank on the driver side between the intake and firewall.....you may be right, it's a probably coolant reservoir for filling and burping the V-Mount radiator. Or it may be an oil reservoir/fill. The standard oil fill tube is gone and has a delete plate in it's spot. They have to put oil in somewhere.

[Scargo]

Since we're a little off topic here I want to show you what I will have dyno'd when I return from the cabin. Note, coolant reservoir is in the rear!
I wonder what kind of power their engine was making and RPMs it was capable of? I am aiming for 525 on 105 octane or 430 at the wheels and road-racing reliable 8K. Stock displacement DAVCS engine. Everything short of dry-sump. External oil pressure regulator.
engine in revised.jpg

[Samiam1017]

Since we're a little off topic here I want to show you what I will have dyno'd when I return from the cabin. Note, coolant reservoir is in the rear!
I wonder what kind of power their engine was making and RPMs it was capable of? I am aiming for 525 on 105 octane or 430 at the wheels and road-racing reliable 8K. Stock displacement DAVCS engine. Everything short of dry-sump. External oil pressure regulator.
engine in revised.jpg

care to share more details on the engine and turbo set up?

[Scargo]

All of what I have done is documented by pictures and notes in my signature link to Shutterfly. I keep a journal at IWSTI and it has all the details on what I have built and am doing with my STi track car.
Do I understand correctly that you are in NE Pennsylvania? Will I be racing against you?

[Samiam1017]

yes im from north eastern PA i am not currently building an R, so no onracing against you. i am currently working on other a subaru powered race project that i believe will use parts that will translate to the R so i like to ask a lot of questions.

[Sgt.Gator]

Scargo the Isle of Man 2016 STi is a 2.0L, 8,500 rpm, 600HP. But they tuned it down to 550HP for the record setting run because of cooling problems. Amazingly it ran on 245/18 tires.

[Wayne Presley]

BTW, the "coil pack's" are data hubs or control modules for the ECU

[Sgt.Gator]

It's taken me awhile to realize this is probably an FA20 engine, not an EJ. The Subaru Nurburgring 24 hour 2.0 race engines have been FA since 2014. Can anyone tell the difference with all these mods?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It's taken me awhile to realize this is probably an FA20 engine, not an EJ. The Subaru Nurburgring 24 hour 2.0 race engines have been FA since 2014. Can anyone tell the difference with all these mods?

Take a look at these pictures.

http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/10.html

[walt555]

I decided to give my dry sump one more shot. John at Aviaid sent me a new pump, this time with a larger 4.5" pulley from Jones Racing (The Element Tuning system comes with a 4" ARE pulley). John also sells a 5", 5.5"., and 6" but didn't have them in stock and I needed it right away for racing this coming weekend. I'm sending my old pump back to be rebuilt by him ($80 plus parts). I'll order a 5.5" pulley to try too.
Between the larger pump pulley and the underdrive crank pulley at least the pump will be spinning slightly slower than crank speed.

Not 818 related but I think I found a way to reduce the heat from the tank in my Legacy by mounting the tank halfway thru the floorboard behind the driver where the OEM fuel pump inspection plate is. I've ordered the parts and will be doing that mod after the races next weekend.

The DS learning goes on !

Would it be possible to retrofit the Element DS kit with the belt drive system from Dailey DS kit?

[Sgt.Gator]

Take a look at these pictures.

http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/10.html

That helped a lot! I forgot about that website , thanks!
This helped too: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1650384

Would it be possible to retrofit the Element DS kit with the belt drive system from Dailey DS kit?

I Don't know.
I'm currently looking at making a mandrel and pump mount much like the Cosworth one that would work with the Aviad Pump. Cosworth has officially stopped making their Subaru Dry Sump system.

[FFRSpec72]

That helped a lot! I forgot about that website , thanks!
This helped too: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1650384


I Don't know.
I'm currently looking at making a mandrel and pump mount much like the Cosworth one that would work with the Aviad Pump. Cosworth has officially stopped making their Subaru Dry Sump system.

So Cosworth either determined that the dry sumps don't work or not enough volume to keep producing them, they are still making the baffle and pan though. It could be that Subaru engines are just not acceptable/designed for road racing no matter what

[Sgt.Gator]

So Cosworth either determined that the dry sumps don't work or not enough volume to keep producing them, they are still making the baffle and pan though. It could be that Subaru engines are just not acceptable/designed for road racing no matter what

They are generally getting out of supporting Subaru EJ engines period. They've taken all their Subaru EJ heads and longblocks off their website and the retailers that still have one or two in stock are selling them off. They still sell their pistons, rods, and valves because there is a good market for them. But most of the stuff I see now is for the FA engine in Staged Performance Packages.

The dry sump system was a very small market TAM and they were the most expensive option. I think I bought the last new Cosworth DS system available in north America. I have to say in looking at the workmanship/quality of the pieces I see why it is so expensive. Very awesome stuff.
But there's some machining processes they did that aren't necessary for function that can be eliminated that would reduce the cost of the parts. For instance they machined away aluminum in places that saved maybe a couple of grams but added a lot to the cost. The kind of stuff F1 racecars do, but makes the part out of reach for us.
I'm in the process of examining all the DS systems available for the Subaru EJ then coming up with my own design and limited run on parts. I have a local engineer helping me with it. We should have all the parts available by next spring. Maybe some of them this fall.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

To the engine specialist.

For track days I am running a 2 quart accusump to prevent oil starvation during high G corners.
I would like suggestion on which valve to run on a 2.5L turbo 818.

Here are some options.
1. Manual valve, Stay open all the time on track.

2. electric valve with no pressure switch. Opens with ignition switch.

3.electric valve with 25 PSI switch. Opens valve if engine pressure is below 25 psi and ignition is on.
Tank fills anytime engine pressure is greater then tank pressure.

4.electric valve with 40 PSI switch. Opens valve if engine pressure is below 40 psi and ignition is on.
Tank fills anytime engine pressure is greater then tank pressure.

5.electric valve with 60 PSI switch. Opens valve if engine pressure is below 60 psi and ignition is on.
Tank fills anytime engine pressure is greater then tank pressure.

Please post your opinion with the reasoning behind your selection.

If you agree with someone previous post. Please post "I agree with "screen name"

Here is info on how an accusump works.
http://www.accusump.com/accusump_tech.html


Thanks in advance.
Bob

[Scargo]

The reason for my opinions is only that I have not had an engine failure and have not had issues with oil pressure while on the track. In general, I run competitive ST2 lap times and have run well over 50 hours without issue in my STi.
1. I am doing everything manually. Regardless of how you set it up, you want the Accusump open to the engine's oiling system whenever the engine is running. I don't want to have the delay of a valve opening or the chance it may not open when I really need the intervention of the Accusump's oil.
I open the valve just before cranking and (hopefully remember to) shut the valve after a quick blip of the throttle to raise the oil pressure before I shut off the engine. When I have forgotten to close the valve and shut off the engine it has not seemed to be a problem. I do have all the KB stuff: pan, windage plate, pickup. I also have a remote oil filter and a large Setrab cooler. In my previous motors I have run the 11mm pump with one added shim.
With my new Alpha motor I am trying something revolutionary. I will brag when and if it works. I will still be using the Accusump.

[Mitch Wright]

I agree with Scargo, it has been a lot of years since I driven a car with an Accusump and it was always manual for the reasons stated above.

[Sgt.Gator]

Scargo is your Accusump valve in the driver's compartment?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thank Scargo and Mitch for the advice.
When I lost my engine a few weeks ago I was running a manual valve on a 2 quart Accusump.

This was the situation.
100k miles on the 04FXT 2.5L engine.
Running oem power and tune. 195whp
We were beating the sh*t out of the car in 1/2 session with 1 hour rest between.
95 deg ambient.
Engine bit the dust on last lap of a 30 minute session.
Data log showed coolant never over 200.
OEM oil filter and warmer/heater.
No oil temp or pressure gauges.
it didn't look like we even got an oil idiot light in the video.
5w40 Rotella T6 oil.
Check oil level at end of session, with full accusump. it was good.

The theory on the new style valves is that the 2 qts oil could be sitting in the tank at 85 psi waiting to shoot out if needed.
With the open valve and at lower rpm you may only have 1 qt at 30-40 psi in the tank when you need it.


Adding external cooler/filter and gauges before this weekend track day at Mitch's track.

I hope no cooler was the root cause, I would hate to waste another engine.

My valve is under the rear hatch. Open for track day weekends, closed for street commuting.
Bob