Hindsight is 20/20

[MagnumPI006]

Looking at building a cobra at some point in the future. I have zero experience with this, and am in the planning stages of the build. (It will be years before I can afford a kit) My question to all of the guys here who have built 1 or more of these beautiful machines is this:

What are some things that you found it mid build, or after completion that you really wish you had known up front.

[68GT500MAN]

Welcome to the forum. It has been 12 years since my roadster build so my memory is not as good as it once was. I would suggest to keep asking questions here on the forum and making a detailed build plan. The plan will help keep you on track with the build.
Doug

[MagnumPI006]

Thanks for that! Any particular planning tools that helped?

[Avalanche325]

I was on the forums for 9 years before I ordered my kit. Welcome.

For planning I would keep a spreadsheet like Excel. Make notes on everything you want divided into catagories like engine, interior, etc . It will likely change along the way as you see and read things. Keep a folder of pictures that show things you like. Keep links to vendors.

You will be surprised how many build tips you will pick up by reading the forums.

I recommend putting your location in. There might be someone with a car or doing a build near you.

[jakester888]

Here's a tip. I'm about 80% done with my build and I'd suggest this: don't go with a donor. Go the complete kit route. If you go donor, you'll waste time salvaging and cleaning parts that you will later replace.

[Dave O]

For me, the heater was a waste of time. I'm in Texas and seat heaters are more than enough. I'm typically only driving in good weather anyway. Even when it is chilly out, the seat heaters are fine. Only advantage of a heater may be in resale value.

[TommyB]

I'm with Jakester on this one as well. I started on the donor path and ended up rebuilding almost everything.
As I progress, it is slowly turning into a complete build at a greater cost. When I ordered my kit I was smart(rare) and negotiated FFR suspension parts during one of their "Black Friday Sales". If you do go the donor route go as new and as low mileage as possible.
The most important advice I can give is to "enjoy the ride". It is truly an awesome adventure!!!

[seagull81]

You need to decide on how you will use your car. That has a lot to do with how you set it up and the parts you buy. If you are not using an IRS, go 3 link and not 4 link. It is not easy to change with a finished car.
Look for the Cobra Club in your area and join them. You don't have to have a car. We always have empty seats on our cruises. I have had several folks ride along while deciding on a build or while they were building. Either way welcome to the madness.

[Jester]

Welcome Magnum - you are in for an great experience that will bring hours of fun and a ton of satisfaction.

Recommendations will depend on a number of things - mainly budget and what you what to end up with. There are so many drive line and suspension options - you need to have an idea what you want (old school or modern tribute, street or track, 15's or 17's (will affect brake rotor dia.) etc., etc.)

x2 with seagull - locate someone with a cobra in your area and ask for a ride and ask as many questions as you can think of.

x3 on the "go the complete kit" and only new parts - if your budget can afford it. This will be a big time saver. Buy during one of FFR's sales promotions. Once you have a build plan - any change or modification to your build will cost both time and money.

Attend the build school before committing as this will give you an understanding of the commitment and skills/tools needed to complete.

What I would change/considerations - 1) I would extend the passengers side foot box, 2) I would redesign the dash layout, 3) I would consider under car exhaust. 4) I have manual steering and brakes and I like the feel of car that way - the manual 13" brakes are fantastic an no need for power brakes however I am considering power steering (at some point). 5) I like the look of the larger rubber on 15" rims however this limits the brake rotor dia so I went with 17's which provide better performance, larger selection of available tires and possibly a stiffer ride (less sidewall rubber). 6) I would consider IRS (but tends to require more maintenance and may be less reliable than a 3 link rear) - I am very happy with the Moser 3 link set up and ride/performance etc. Note the IRS can be added as a bolt on replacement of the 3 link (see FFR IRS package) - I may change to IRS at some point but not very likely.

Note: The result exceeds my expectations (and that is very difficult to do) and the above list are things for consideration but I will not be changing my car.

Take your time and dedicate 4-6 hours to the build each week and before you know it your roadster will be complete.

Good luck

[2bking]

I made the excel spreadsheet for options and costs and a picture gallery a year or more before I ordered the kit and was on the fence about doing the donor build. The only thing enticing about the donor was perhaps a lower cost. As I filled in the spread sheet it became apparent the donor route became more expensive as I deviated from the donor supplied parts by things I wanted to change such as brakes and control arms. If there was a cost difference in the end, it was offset by the labor and time for the donor actions of acquire, strip, rebuild, paint, and dispose. I went with a complete kit. Even after all the due diligence, the budget is almost impossible to maintain. These forums will entice you to spend a lot more.

[MPTech]

Some great advice here.
I planned for 2 years, while saving for my kit. While saving & planning, FFR released the MK4 and addressed many of my build plan mods (to the positive: dropped trunk, peaked trunk lid removed, rolled cockpit edges, riveted hood-scoop, etc).
I bought the Base Kit, anticipating the donor concept, but in the end, I couldn't put 20 year old parts on this great platform. I ended up buying almost everything as new, remanufactured, or rebuilt. Cost a little more that way, but WAY happier with the end result.

I'd also frequent and read the the FFCars site, there's just an abundance of knowledge there.
Here's my Build Plan:
MPTech Build Plan revision 9 and counting

I changed my Build Plan several times in the 2 years and don't regret any of my final decisions. The plan was helpful in identifying a build theme and concept, then sticking to it. In the end, there were still a couple minor changes during the build (and some shiney parts found their way into my build) but I stuck to the plan for the most part.

Here's my end result, almost completed and having a ball driving it:

[Blue MK3]

OK, so you want to build a car. Fine, many enjoy the process and you are able to modify it to your likes. But, big BUT, consider buying a completed car that meets your needs. I was about to pull the trigger and order a kit a couple of years ago when a local car came available that met my criteria and was within my budget. Nice build and it's been trouble free ever since. Doing the spreadsheet and comparing the cost of building or buying, I figure I would have spent $12-14k more to build the equivalent car. That works out to a 30-40% increase in price. Look around; there are some nice cars out there for ~$30-32k. No way will you be able to build a car with all new parts for that.

[MagnumPI006]

Thank Blue. I want to use the car as an experience to learn some hands on skills. I am a very mental guy (engineer by trade) so planning, and visualizing is all well and good, but I have little to no experience putting my hands on mechanical equipment like this, and have really enjoyed the limited exposure I have had. My Dad also never really worked through this kind of stuff with me growing up and I have always regretted it so I want any of my boys (or girls if I wind up with a female gearhead) to learn this stuff too. The build is therefore as much about me learning how to hand manufacture a car as it is about the final ride. (so I can potentially do another build with my kid(s)) As such I will probably stick to the kit even though there are some excellent pre-built options out there.

I live in Orlando Florida. Couldn't edit my profile yet. (Think I need a minimum number of posts)

Having said that, I was looking at the Complete kit from FFR. I don't think I know enough to trust myself to re-qualify and fix older donor parts, and I would be willing to pay extra for that. I think I want a crate engine rather than trying to rebuild something myself, or buying a rebuilt engine from someone.

I am on the fence about IRS. I want it because I have never had a car with 4 wheel independent suspension and I have heard great things about the handling and general ride quality. Any thoughts on the 3 link vs. IRS is welcome.

With that, I am also unclear if the complete kit and/or IRS addition kit from FFR comes with a differential. I don't think it does, and I am curious if anyone has any differential companies or models they recommend? Does the differential have to match up with the transmission I choose?

I am also curious about wheel size. What are the advantages to 15 v. 17 in wheel from a ride quality (not racing perfomance) standpoint. Why would you choose one over the other.

I am looking to make my build into a street car that my wife and I can go cruising in. As such I have been looking into interior heating, soft or hard covers for inclement weather, power steering, potentially looking at cruise control (although that one appears fairly complicated) and other creature comforts so that my better half can enjoy her ride as much as I do.

Is there a comfort or safety advantage to trying to get a seat that has head rests as the standard Roadster seats never had one? (I am having anxiety thinking about getting rear ended and sending the back of my skull into the roll bar during whiplash.

Any further input is welcome, and thank so much for your excellent responses thus far.

[CraigS]

To add a little about IRS. It is more expensive for sure. But if you do it from the start it is not so bad. I also think it has a real benefit if/when you try to sell the car. My friends MkIV has IRS and the standard FFR Koni shocks/springs. I am quite pleased w/ the ride/handling balance FFR has come up with. 15 vs 17. If you have strong feelings about the original look, fo 15. Realize you will be very limited in tire choice and also brake size. For me 17s are the only way to fly. look at a lot of FFRs w/ the replica halibrands in 17 and see if they appeal to you. they do to me for sure.

[MagnumPI006]

Jester,
Why would you extend the passengers side footbox? Is it shallower than the drivers? how would you go about doing that since the Mk4 has all the aluminum pre cut?

When you say undercar exhaust do you mean leaving the leg pipes but not using them to vent so they don't burn your legs as you get out?

What are the performance advantages/disadvantages of the 17" wheels?

[2FAST4U]

You need to decide on how you will use your car. That has a lot to do with how you set it up and the parts you buy. If you are not using an IRS, go 3 link and not 4 link. It is not easy to change with a finished car.
Look for the Cobra Club in your area and join them. You don't have to have a car. We always have empty seats on our cruises. I have had several folks ride along while deciding on a build or while they were building. Either way welcome to the madness.

Excellent advice

[2FAST4U]

Jester,
Why would you extend the passengers side footbox? Is it shallower than the drivers? how would you go about doing that since the Mk4 has all the aluminum pre cut?

When you say undercar exhaust do you mean leaving the leg pipes but not using them to vent so they don't burn your legs as you get out?

What are the performance advantages/disadvantages of the 17" wheels?

Undercar exhaust is what the street cars used. Complicated for our Roadsters because of the chassis design. Doable but not off the shelf. You don't use the sidepipes at all. Not even for looks.

17" wheels allow for the use of high performance modern radial tires. Not much selection for high performance tires in 15". Again it comes down to what you plan to do with your car. If it's just weekend cruises the 15" tires look nicer as they fill the wheel wells better.

[Avalanche325]

With you being in Orlando, check out the Deep South Cobra Club. They are a few events throughout the year. There are all makes and models, not just FFR. If you haven't seen one up close, I am about 2 hrs away in Jax Beach. My body is off for paint right now so you can see what is underneath. I am sure there are some around Orlando, and there is definitely one in Lakeland.

To address some of your comments. It generally does cost more to build it yourself. But if you are looking for that experience, it is awesome. Here is one comment about a complete kit. Keep a close eye on how far you are going to stray from a "stock" build. You don't need to go too far before a base kit plus some add-ons is a better deal. In my case, I did power steering and Wilwood brakes, and a Moser rear. I ordered a base kit + cooling + fuel tank + rear. I was originally thinking donor. Have you priced a low mileage Fox body lately? Yikes! I am VERY VERY happy I went all new.

There are lots of threads about 3 link vs IRS and some of them get a little heated. Here is what I always say: I talked to FFR and they explained to me that IRS is their "comfort" suspension and the 3 link is their "performance" suspension. IRS does have the "cool factor", but it is more expensive and has far more issues.

I recommend power steering. It is nice in a parking lot. I also autocross, so I wouldn't be without it there. If I didn't have Wilwoods (also highly recommended, you can't have a car that stops too fast), I would have power brakes too.

Wheel size. 15" is of course what the originals had. They look great. There are two issues. 1. You cannot run big brakes, like the Wilwoods. 2. There are very limited tire selections, especially high performance tires. My opinion is this, anything less than an ultra high performance tire is a safety risk on these cars. The 17s don't look wrong to me. The MKIV body seems to work very well with them.

I highly recommend a heater, heated seats, and a fresh air system (like Cobra Earl's). Here in FL, winter driving is some of the best. Early mornings and late evenings can get cool with no top. I headed out to Savannah early for an autocross. As soon as I got off of the coast, the temp dropped and even with heat and a heated seat I was cold for 2 hours.

As far as creature comforts go, don't fool yourself. You won't fool your wife. These are race cars. They are loud, windy, they actually don't ride too bad though, but they will punish you severely for being stupid for 2 seconds. They are an engine and a place to hang on to. As far as loud goes, as HP goes up so do the dBs. 4 into 4s are louder than J pipes. Stainless pipes are louder than regular (they also don't stay silver for long). I have a 500hp 347 with a pretty nasty cam, 4 into 4s and stainless pipes and I HAVE to wear ear plugs, even for a 15 minute drive. I can't imagine trying to have a stereo up loud enough to actually hear it on top of that. If the wife chooses, the Infiniti gets fired up. You can easily do one quieter than mine if you make the right choices. So don't let that scare you too much. Just something to think about.

High back seats, of course, will be safer and are available. There is the other option of making a head rest that goes on the roll bar. Neither look great, but they are safer.

One other thing to think about is what type of engine do you want? EFI or carb? (lots of threads on that)

[MagnumPI006]

Thanks avalanche!

I think I would like to go IRS because it is a ride thing, and its also fun to just know you have it.

As for tires it sounds like the 17s are the way to go.

While I understand that this is a car not really meant for cruising for hours and hours I would still like to do everthing possible to make it safer, and quieter. I have been looking into insulation kits to help with the noise. You mentioned making the right choices to get the car a little quieter. What choices should I make?

I have been looking at a Ford Racing 5.0 litre Coyote crate engine (https://www.fordracingparts.com/part...KeyField=11829) as that seems to be a relatively cheap option for an out of the box engine, but I don't think you can put cruise control on it, since the PCM and wiring harness uses a drive by wire throttle system. Its an EFI system.

I was looking into a soft top for the wind and rain so I could coax the wife into going, as half of my desire to get the car is to have my hot babe in the seat next to me cruising.

What would be the best looking seat with a headrest and heated seats? (I don't know that I want to put one on the roll bar)

Bottom line is that I want a car that is as safe, as comfortable and as quiet as possible for long highway cruises and saturday drives. I care a little less about sticking to the authentic 60s Cobra look (although my dad will roll over in his grave on that one, since he is the one who got me into these cars in the first place ) and I don't care as much about performance as I won't be racing. (except where performance is directly related to safety, like the larger brake pad surfaces)

Is there a crate engine out there for less than 10k that will allow for an after market cruise control system?

[MPTech]

Can't address your Coyote / Cruise Control question yet, but I am considering adding cruise to mine over the winter and if I was building again I would STRONGLY consider the Coyote, it's a great platform for these cars!

If you haven't reviewed the link I provided earlier to my Build Plan, I would suggest it, as your desires are almost spot-on with what I built: EFI, PowerSteering, Power Brakes, 17" wheels/tires, IRS, Racing (Rally) seats with head-rests built-in. In the end, almost all of my intended donor parts were new or reconditioned/warrantied (from AutoZone, NAPA, etc). I definitely decided against donor and bought new: Wiring, Fuel Tank, Fuel Pump, Radiator, Brakes.

I have no problem (mechanical or comfort-wise) driving my car on a short or long cruise. I put 9k miles on it in less than 1 1/2 years. Drove it to London TWICE (425+ miles and my 80 year old dad rode with me both trips!) and to Arkansas ~275 miles by myself.
Lots of fun to build, even more fun to DRIVE!

[skullandbones]

Hi Magnum,

If it's going to be some time before you actually build, I would suggest getting a manual and using that as a visual guide and reference source to make notes and document links to specific locations that will help when you get to that task in the build. I know many will say to do it completely electronically but I liked having the paper manual in hand. I consider it a piece of memorabilia for the history of my build instead of a file in my computer. The best tool is the one between your ears. I bet you will enjoy the mental gymnastics of planning this build. I liked imagining doing the task in my head over and over trying to take into account other subsystems in the build. How did they relate or possibly interfere with one another. Actually, this project can be done in hundreds of different ways and orders. Also, planning to make the access and maintenance of each subsystem doable after the roadster is completed is important. One example of that is drill and tapping the wind screen frame posts so they could be installed without nuts. It will come in handy some day. I did that one. If you begin with the manual and then supplement the various sections by visiting the forum for details on those areas that are not quite clear, you will be ahead of the curve when you begin putting your hands on the task for real. I've personally benefited by watching some of the details on builds that really made the job easy when I actually did it. In other words, there are a lot of tasks that are accomplished by "standing on the shoulders" of previous builders. It would be a shame for everyone to learn the hard way all the time. This community helps minimize that a lot. I don't think it is possible to plan too much especially if you customize your build. If you build a straight off the manual build, it might be simpler to plan but not nearly as much fun.

Good luck,

WEK.

[Avalanche325]

While I understand that this is a car not really meant for cruising for hours and hours I would still like to do everthing possible to make it safer, and quieter. I have been looking into insulation kits to help with the noise. You mentioned making the right choices to get the car a little quieter. What choices should I make?

The good thing is that you can cruise for hours and hours. They won't be the most comfortable hours of your life, but it is certainly fun. I have done a couple all day cruises. I have a 3 link and find that the ride is not generally that harsh. The IRS, I'm sure, is better. The wind, sun, and noise beat you up more than anything.

Safety. First of all, will be how you drive it. This is a racecar. Building a cruiser? It is still a RACECAR. Don't ever forget that. It does not have the electronic nannys that actually fool people inot thinking they know how to drive. Bring bad driving habits here and you can get into trouble. If you don't have your head on straight, don't drive it that day. If you want to be safe, autocross your car at least a few times shortly after you get it on the road. I think that should be mandatory for these. Plus, it is a lot of fun.

Serious high performance tires are a safety item, even on a cruiser. These cars need all the traction they can get. That is one reason to go 17". I can't imagine my car with less grip than I have now. Yikes.

Put the best brakes on that you can afford. I have driven an older one that was downright scary brake-wise. I have not driven one with the complete kit brakes. I have Wilwoods and you can just about pop your eyeballs out of your head. I recommend them highly.

High back seats are safer. It changes the look of the car, though. I stayed with standard seats. If you have a wife or girlfriend, (or both) that you like, consider a passenger side roll bar. You can do a third brake light and LED tail lights for visibility.

One of the biggest safety items is doing a quality build. Don't cut corners on your build. If you really want to be safe, use your Cobra money and buy a Volvo.

Noise. Insulation on these cars is more for heat control (which you want) as far as I am concerned. People claim that it stops the panels from "ringing", but from an acoustic aspect carpet does that. Let's get real. It is an open cockpit car with a sidepipe two feet from your ear, so deadening a little road noise is not going to do much.

Engine noise. Windsors are louder than modern engines. More power makes more noise. Bigger heads or a bigger cam and it all gets louder. The pipes make a difference. 4 into 4s are louder than J pipes. Cats cut the noise some. Apparently, the stainless pipes are louder than the standard pipes. There are also aftermarket pipes that are quieter. Gas-N-Pipes have a lower pitch. They are not actually quieter when measured, but appear to be quieter. Breeze sells "quiet pipes" that are supposed to be very, "almost too", quiet. I haven't heard them myself.

I have a 347 pushing around 500 hp, Trick-low heads, an aggressive cam, 4 into 4s, and stainless pipes. My car is VERY loud. It is louder than most, but you can see I have most of the loud options. I think the cam is a big factor. I have to wear ear plugs every time I drive it.

If your wife is like most wives and you want to go cruising with her, I would do a modern engine and keep it on the mild side. A mild Cobra is still extremely fast. My wife doesn't like riding in mine very much. I may have a set of those quiet pipes in my future.

[pavieSD]

Wanting the wife to ride and having her actually want to ride are two different things. Ask yourself this, on any given day, if you wanted to ride a motorcycle on that day/time would she go with you? If she wouldn't, then she won't get into the cobra on that day either. If it's cold outside, if she needs to wear bundles of clothes, if she doesn't want to mess up her hair, etc. etc. The cobra is basically a motorcycle for the purposes of braving the elements. No amount of heat insulation, seat heaters, or even a top is going to change this. I say this not to dissuade you from getting the car, but to keep in mind what your priorities should be spending wise.

I have a very forgiving wife and she does ride with me on occasion, but I wouldn't plan my build around making sure she is comfortable, as it's not really feasible given the nature of the beast. You are exposed to the elements no matter what you do, and you will need to put up with that regardless of your vision. The exhaust is loud, the sun is beating down on you, and the wind noise and turbulence against your ears isn't going to be lessened no matter what. It's better to know that going in, then to expect that you're going to make changes to all those things.

We own these cars because we have a passion for the design, performance, and looks. Focus on what you want, and have a long talk with your wife about what her expectations are as well with regards to riding in the car. In the end you'll be happier with your build if you have better expectations going in of what the end result will be.

[Slider]

If you have questions about the difficulty, or whether you have the skillset to do this, go to the Build School at Mott Community College. It's a small investment overall and you'll walk out of there with all the confidence in the world. Plus you will have a group of friends that you've met in person to talk to, share notes with and refer back to. Can you do it without the class... absolutely, but you'll come out of there with much more confidence. And... from there use this forum... greatest resource you can imagine.

[Avalanche325]

MagnumPI006,

I got your PM. Stop by tomorrow if you can.