Adjusting clutch engagement

[RJF9301]

How can the clutch on a MK ll be adjusted so that it engages closer to when it is fully depress? Presently the clutch does not engage until the pedal is 2-3 inches from fully out.

[CraigS]

Technically you can do that but I am not sure you want to. I am assuming you have a cable right? You would need to put a lot of slack in the cable and I would be concerned that one end or the other would fall out of position. Do you have a firewall adjuster or a cable where there is adjustment available at the clutch end? If you want to adjust it that way I would also recommend an adjustable pedal travel limiter so the pedal doesn't come up as far as it does now. This would move the entire pedal action closer to the floor and would take care of the cable coming loose. As an FYI the stock mustang cable setup has little to no slack in the cable and an auto-adjuster to keep that way.

[RJF9301]

Thanks; yes there is a cable and, unfortunately, if there is a firewall adjuster it is absolutely not where it can be seen or reached. Similarly, the cable end at the clutch pedal does not appear to be accessible without completely removing the pedal assembly.

[68GT500MAN]

Could you post a photo? The MKII had the clutch cable exit the foot box at the same place as others, so I can't visualize why the adjuster can not be reached.
Doug

[Mesa Mike]

Let's start by getting a better picture of your set up. Do you have an after market clutch quadrant or a stock quadrant? Is your clutch cable OEM stock? Most after market clutch cable adjusters set on the end of the foot box where the clutch cable exits the foot box. It would not be any where else. An after market quadrant is strongly recommend along with an adjustable clutch cable. The best way to change a clutch cable, now and in the future, is to cut an access panel in the top of the driver foot box. You can also swap in an after market alumni. quadrant if you need too through the same panel. With an adjustable clutch cable you have endless possibilities and it's very easy.

[RJF9301]

I am the second owner having bought the car at auction so am not able to answer your questions concerning aftermarket clutch quadrant or OEM on the cable.

I have attached three picturesne of the top of the clutch pedal assembly, another of what appears to be the cable exiting the clutch pedal assembly and third picture of the cable exiting the footbox.DSCN0571.JPGDSCN0574.JPGDSCN0600.JPG

[skullandbones]

That looks to me to be the Mustang pedal box. You can see where the clutch safety switch would be installed on the perch in two of the pics. I think you need some more detailed pics to show the rest. I think that third pic might have the clutch cable in the top left part of the pic but very dark. I didn't see the quadrant in those pics. If you have seen it, is it plastic? If so it is an OEM item also from the Mustang. If you don't have a firewall mounted clutch quadrant adjuster, you may need an adjustable cable as MesaMike suggests. Better pics would help. WEK.

Note: when you get your adjustment exactly where you like it, the addition of a firewall quadrant adjuster would make it very easy to do some fine adjustments on the clutch. I find it very convenient to raise the hood and reach under to the adjuster and give it a tweek now and then. That's much easier than getting under the car.

[RJF9301]

I finally was able to squeeze myself upside down into the foot box (although I almost had to call 911 to get out) and get pictures of the clutch cable attachment. The pictures clearly show a direct cable connection. I suspect I will need to put the car on a lift to see where the cable exits the firewall as nothing is visible from the engine compartment to determine if there is an adjustment nob on the exit side.DSCN0626.JPGDSCN0611.JPGDSCN0628.JPGDSCN0629.JPG

[skullandbones]

I still don't see a clutch quadrant. I see throttle linkage (small cable), brake pedal plunger and it looks like there are electrical wires coming thru where the clutch cable should be. My thought is you may have a hydraulic clutch unless I'm blind and just can't see the clutch stuff. Somebody have a second look at these pics!@!

If you have a look under the car at the driver's side bell housing area there should be an arm sticking out (holds the throwout bearing and depresses the pressure plate) that will have either a cable attached or a push rod with a hydraulic slave cylinder bolted to the block via a bracket. The cylinder will have a hydraulic line like a brake line attached and a small bleeder valve. The line will trace up to your master brake cylinder. So by looking under the car you will be sure finally what kind of mechanism is operating the clutch. If you have a cable down there look to see if it has an adjustment mechanism ( e.g. threads and a couple of lock nuts). If it does you can adjust your clutch from there or if it has the slave cylinder, you may have an adjustable plunger that comes out of the slave that can be adjusted at the clutch arm. It should have adjustment.

Pics of the underside would help also. Don't know if you have access to a lift but that would be ideal.

As a sidebar: I laughed hard when you mentioned getting upside down in the footbox. I have done that with the thought that the ParaMedics would have to come to the house and extract me with the "jaws of life"!

[Norm B]

I agree with skullandbones. From the pics you have some sort of after market clutch pedal system. The clutch quadrant that should be visible beside the gas pedal is not there and you can plainly see the hole in the front foot box frame, for the stock cable system, with nothing in it. Pictures of the front of the foot box from the engine compartment might help. As suggested pictures of the bottom of the car from the drivers side might also help.

As a side note, and only for my education, can somebody tell me what that piece of "stuff" on the brake push rod is for?

Good Luck
Norm

[MPTech]

REALLY hard to make heads or tails out of the pictures. (I know you are standing on your head and pointing up and probably taking the picture with one hand. I usually hurt / ache for a couple days after working in the DS footbox for any extended time. Royal PITA and the limited door opening doesn't help either)
Not seeing a clutch cable quadrant, but hard to tell and may be obscured from this angle. (btw, that throttle cable looks a little slacky, how does it feel?) If you can install a Russ Thompson throttle pedal, they are a world of improvement!)

If you chase up the clutch pedal, can you see the top connected to a cylinder? A picture of the front of the footbox from the engine bay may help too.

[Norm B]

I did a search of my pics and found this. It is of a MK IV with a 95 pedal box but the basic design is the same. The yellow plastic piece at the top is where a clutch cable would be attached if you had a similar system. Some builders replace the plastic with a metal quadrant but I don't see either in your pics.

Hope this helps.

Norm
image.jpg

[MPTech]

Front DS FB, with the adjuster, the white nylon disk with the blue anodized adjuster behind it.







you can see the top of the cable quadrant here (this is an aftermarket aluminum one, the OEM is plastic / nylon).

[edwardb]

You guys all beat me to it... I was going to say the same. Pictures are a little hard to see much, but clearly a donor footbox and no normal clutch quadrant to be seen. I looked though my Mk3 pictures, because I have an SN-95 footbox with the quadrant in the stock location (right side of the accelerator pedal, looking forward) but didn't have any clear ones. Norm B's picture shows it though. Unless I'm missing something, seems the clutch cable is being pulled directly off the clutch arm? Any "regular" adjustment methods including the usual footbox mounted adjuster may not be in the cards. Maybe an adjustable cable with the adjustment at the clutch arm? But I still wouldn't feel good about that cable routing (if that's what I'm seeing) over the long haul.

[skullandbones]

RJ,

You are starting to get some nice pics of the quadrant and associated components. I have a pic of the OEM Mustang quadrant and an adjustable cable. The quadrant is from a 92 GT. It is plastic and should be in the same location as the one on NormB #12 post. The large end of the cable is the one that fits in the firewall. The swedged fitting at the end attaches to the quadrant and the cable sits on top. When you depress the clutch pedal the rolling motion of the quadrant gives you a smooth actuation of the clutch and holds the cable straight. You will probably not have the adjuster so this shows the stock mount which is secured to the firewall with a small screw. That's all that holds it! The other end of the cable is an example of the adjustable kind. As you can see, you can move the location of the cable on the clutch arm 2+ inches. But you still have to go under the car to do the adjustment with only this feature. The adjustable quadrant is worth it's weight in gold as you an do it during a drive just by raising the hood. Sweet! I think around $50.

You might want to get that throttle cable fixed. I am going to carry an extra one on trips as that little 1/8 cable can strand you. I always had mechanical ones on my hot rods until now.

WEK.

[RJF9301]

All

Thanks for the input and pictures-very helpful. My clutch cable connects directly to the pedal (picture 2 of 4 in Reply #8) and I conclude a roller quadrant is essential for better shifting and, more importantly, to take up the slack that now exists. I agree also that I need to put it on a lift which I can do this weekend at a friend's garage. I found the cable's exit point from the foot box through the firewall. I have the white plastic piece shown in MPTech's (Reply 13) pictures but not the blue adjuster; I have a soft black rubber piece about 3/8 inches thick that rotates but it's not clear that it is really doing anything, particularly with the excessive slack that exists in the cable shown in my picture (2 of 4) in reply #8.

At this point I believe a quadrant needs to be added, an adjuster mechanism added at the exit point on the firewall and put the car on a lift to replace the entire cable with one with an adjustment capability as shown in the picture with reply #14 and re-attached it to the transmission housing. Am I on the correct track now? If so , it is in large measure due to your input. Thanks again!

Bob

[edwardb]

Your response confirmed what I suggested, that the clutch cable is connected directly to the clutch pedal arm. Definitely not the original design of either Fox or SN95 footboxes. So whoever built your car took some liberty there. The original footboxes had a plastic quadrant with a self-adjusting mechanism. They were, as I mentioned and as pictured, on the far RH side of the footbox over by the accelerator. Hard to say if the quadrant was removed whether the mounting mechanism is still in place and you could get it back to the original design. Also as mentioned and pictured, it's very common to replace the plastic quadrant with a metal one, disable/remove the self adjusting mechanism, and deal with adjustment with a footbox mounted adjuster and/or adjustment threads in the cable at the clutch arm. And as you have already found out (and I know from personal experience as well) working up under the dash in the footbox is not a fun experience. You may need to cut an access panel in the footbox from under the hood. I also find it easier to remove the driver's seat when working in this area. I just can't handle any more than a few minutes otherwise. Good luck continuing to sort this out. Hopefully this kind of thing isn't repeated elsewhere.

[MPTech]

Yikes!!?? That's the clutch pedal, with the cable just being pulled through the hole?? I don't understand how you could get enough travel and leverage.
How does the clutch feel? (can't imagine that working well) I see the donor pedalbox is being used, do you know what year the donor was?

[Norm B]

I agree with Edward. If there isn't one there already, you are going to want/need an access panel to do this job. Hopefully the parts for the quadrant are still there and you can just instal the missing piece. While you are there you might want to fix the throttle cable and remove that piece of junk from the brake push rod.
I also agree with MP Tech. "Yikes"
For your own peace of mind and safety, very carefully go over the rest of the car.

Good Luck
Norm

[CraigS]

Guys, lets look at this again. See the pics in post #8 especially pics #3 and #4. this looks to me like a donor GAS pedal not a clutch pedal. Although it's hard to try to rotate the pic in my mind it looks to me like that pedal is to the right of the brake pedal and close to the right side of the footbox. See the 3/4x3/4 tube- that looks like where a Russ Thompson pedal is mounted. Also the pedal is made by stamping sheet metal into a U-shape. Compare that to the clutch pedal shown in post #12 which is what I expect to see- a piece of solid forged steel. Skull and bones sees a gas pedal too in post#9. But then Bob in post #16 seems to refer to this cable as the clutch cable noting the slack that is visable. Also I think that cable is awfully skinny to be a clutch cable.

[edwardb]

Guys, lets look at this again. See the pics in post #8 especially pics #3 and #4. this looks to me like a donor GAS pedal not a clutch pedal. Although it's hard to try to rotate the pic in my mind it looks to me like that pedal is to the right of the brake pedal and close to the right side of the footbox. See the 3/4x3/4 tube- that looks like where a Russ Thompson pedal is mounted. Also the pedal is made by stamping sheet metal into a U-shape. Compare that to the clutch pedal shown in post #12 which is what I expect to see- a piece of solid forged steel. Skull and bones sees a gas pedal too in post#9. But then Bob in post #16 seems to refer to this cable as the clutch cable noting the slack that is visable. Also I think that cable is awfully skinny to be a clutch cable.

Except that the OP himself agreed the clutch cable was directly attached to the clutch arm. Unless he doesn't know one pedal from another (unlikely) suspect we need to believe him. Plus even though I agree the pictures are hard to follow, there's isn't a clutch quadrant to be seen anywhere. Typically those are easy to spot. No matter what, it all looks a little rough to me.

Sincerely hope for the OP's case this isn't typical of the rest of the build, especially related to possible safety items. This is why I cringe a little when everyone says that buying an already built car is a good deal. You really need to be careful out there. The build quality is all over the place.

[skullandbones]

I didn't see any evidence of components like you would see in a normal clutch installation. The only thing that even resembled a clutch component was the clutch safety switch mounting point in a couple of pics. The safety switch is not there though. So it looks like a Mustang pedal box and a Mustang throttle pedal. That's why I asked that RJF9301 should get the car on a lift and examine the underside. At least you would know what you have because the cable, slave cylinder or whatever can't hide from you there. I can't believe someone would hook a clutch up directly to the pedal without a quadrant. I'll have to see that to believe it and so far I haven't seen it! Let's wait for some better pics or under the chassis proof. WEK.

[MPTech]

I agree, I've looked at those pictures several times now and all I can make out is a gas and brake pedal, I didn't see the top of the clutch pedal in any of them. (btw, seriously look into the Russ Thompson throttle pedal, MUCH BETTER than what you've got.

Can you get a picture of the front/top portion of the footbox from the engine bay?

[Norm B]

I too have looked over the pictures several times and the only thing I can say for certain is that you have some sort of after market clutch pedal system. Picture #1 in post 8 shows the gas pedal and cable and where the normal clutch quadrant should be. You can see the hole in the forward foot box frame for the clutch cable but all that seems to be in it is part of the wiring. I thought I saw something that looked like a hydraulic line in one of the other pictures but I can't be sure. All of the other pictures seem to be of the gas pedal and cable. As others have said, a picture of the front of the foot box from the engine compartment would help.

Good Luck
Norm

[michael everson]

Ok. I am a bit of a pedal box expert. I can clearly see the stock plastic adjuster in both picture 1 and 3 of his second set. You can just make out the white/yellow in the picture. To the original poster. Keep in mind that although the clutch pedal is all the way to the left of the pedal box, the actual quadrant and cable are all the way to the right. Should be just above the gas pedal.
The black rubber/ plastic part exiting your firewall is from the donor cable. This can be removed and replaced with a firewall adjuster. It will require removing the cable from the quadrant in the foot box. Can be done from the interior but must be done by feel and not sight. Where do you live? I could fix this in about 1/2 hour. Done it a few times.
Mike

[RJF9301]

The picture are quite difficult to decipher so for clarification all four of the second set of pictures in Post #8 are of the top of the clutch pedal (far left pedal in the pedal assembly) with the clutch cable connected directly to the clutch pedal through a hole in the pedal most clearly shown in picture 2 of 4 and 4 of 4. There is no quadrant on the right side of the pedal assemble (picture 1 of 3 in post #6) and the cable does not exit the firewall where it would normally exit. There are no pictures of the gas pedal only a partial picture of the brake hydraulic in picture 1 of 3 in post #6 and 1 of 4 in post #8. Bob

[michael everson]

Hate to disagree with you, but most of your pictures in fact show the gas pedal not the clutch pedal. I can clearly see the quadrant and even the clutch cable in picture 1 of post 8. Climb back in there and and look up above the gas pedal and you will see the plastic white quadrant. The picture of the clutch pedal that you show, you can see the little post that the starter enable switch used to be attached to. Could you post a picture of the front of your driver foot box?
Mike

[michael everson]

Ok take a look at this picture that you posted. The red circle is the bottom of the plastic clutch quadrant. The yellow circle shows the top of your gas pedal as well as the cable attached to it.
Mike

[skullandbones]

Good catch Michael! I did not see that but it was there to be seen. Sorry for missing that RJF. Looks like you're in better shape than we thought. You still need an adjustor.

WEK.

[Norm B]

Good catch Michael!
If you look at the picture Michael high lighted you can see a small section of the clutch cable through the triangular opening in the foot box. It is coated in white/yellow grease. I can see the adjuster now that it has been pointed out but still can't see the OEM quadrant. I suppose it could be obscured by the pedal box and camera angle.

To check if you have the OEM set up hook your toe under the clutch pedal and pull it towards you. The clutch mechanism will adjust and you will hear it click.

Good Luck
Norm

[CraigS]

What I know is that my clutch pedal is made exactly like my brake pedal. A solid forging like the brake pedal shown in the pic Michael posted. It is not stamped sheet metal like the one in the same pic. Maybe this is not a Mustang pedal even though it is a Mustang pedal box.

[michael everson]

Craig. thats because its not the clutch pedal. His picture4 is showing the Mustang throttle pedal.
Mike

[RJF9301]

I concede upside down, head first into the foot box thoroughly confused the camera man who is way too big to be in such a small space. Cudos to Mike!! Next step is installing an adjuster as WEK reminds. Bob

[SStrong]

MPTech has a good picture of what all builders should add - a removeable access panel for the driver's footbox. RJF may want to cut one for this job. Will have to bend some aluminum to finish, but it will be useful in the future. I added one during the build after reading the different threads, doesn't look as nice as his. Rivet nuts and tool are also a must. I wouldn't want to adjust the clutch or replace/ remove the cable from the footwell myself. I would never get out.
I ran into a guy who has a MK1 he purchased from Florida. He was not real happy with the build quality, and said he was going to buy a MKIV kit soon. The difference between the early versions and what is available now is really great. I told him to call me when he was ready. I'd love to build mine all over.

[Norm B]

I have a digital camera with a flip screen that I use instead of crawling into spaces. With my back they'd need the jaws of life to get me out.
If your pedal box is a stock Mustang unit, you might not need an adjuster. Reach in and grab the clutch pedal and pull it towards the rear of the car. It should move back about 1 inch and feel like there is spring tension against it. The clutch cable slack will be adjusted automatically. You might hear a click or a short grinding noise,depending on how far out of adjustment the cable was.
If it doesn't adjust then you will need to instal an adjuster as already stated.

Good Luck
Norm