naked hot rods first show

[myjones]

Had a great time Sunday putting my 33 in the local show. I left most of the body at home to show off the racing DNA under the skin.
I took along one seat and spent my time between answering questions and putting kids in the car so their parents could take a picture
Met a lot of nice people and a few FF fans as well.
nakedhr.jpg

Brian Huff loaned me some rolling stock for the show and Robert Andrews dropped by as well.
My granddaughter made the story board and family and friends helped me roll the slocart on and off the trailer since it has no wiring or plumbing at this point.

[jayguy]

Car looks great!

[stacked33]

Are you in the photo or taking it?

[myjones]

Are you in the photo or taking it?

I'm the old fart without a hat, Gray hair next to the guy with the brown cap on.
The straw hat guy was asking lots of questions too because he is on the fence about buying one.
I snagged that picture from a local webzine after a friend pointed me to it.
Dale

[stacked33]

Car looks cool that way. Perfect way for a prospective buyer to see one. I really dig the wood grain on the dash.

[myjones]

Car looks cool that way. Perfect way for a prospective buyer to see one. I really dig the wood grain on the dash.

I wanted the top at exactly the right height so that from inside and outside you got a true sense of the chop and sightlines. The woody part was something any retired carpenter
has at a moments notice
DB

[stacked33]

Dale,
I can't tell from the photo if you have your front stabilizer on or not. You had sent me some pictures and ideas when I was doing mine and I wanted to update you on what I found. I had built my car with the rear stabilizer that was mounted to the frame and am very happy with the results. I went with 175# springs in the back and 250# in the front. The car rides firm but not harsh, no bottoming out issues(yet, 2500 miles on the car), stays very flat in corners and hooks up very well at the drag strip. I remember you had said you wanted your car to launch hard too. I used the Koni shocks from FFR and left them at the settings they came with. I don't think at this point I would change anything. I am going back to the drag strip Sat with a few tricks up my sleeve to see if I can break into the 10,s.
Stacked33

[myjones]

Dale,
I can't tell from the photo if you have your front stabilizer on or not. You had sent me some pictures and ideas when I was doing mine and I wanted to update you on what I found. I had built my car with the rear stabilizer that was mounted to the frame and am very happy with the results. I went with 175# springs in the back and 250# in the front. The car rides firm but not harsh, no bottoming out issues(yet, 2500 miles on the car), stays very flat in corners and hooks up very well at the drag strip. I remember you had said you wanted your car to launch hard too. I used the Koni shocks from FFR and left them at the settings they came with. I don't think at this point I would change anything. I am going back to the drag strip Sat with a few tricks up my sleeve to see if I can break into the 10,s.
Stacked33

Front sway tube is on but I'm still waiting on my friend for the custom clamp for the attachment to the a-arm tube. I wanted it to be a clamp on billet device and have a urethane iso point where the bolt from the heim goes through it. I will design my rear sway dead last so it doesn't get in the way of my rear dual exhaust. Since I have the rear tank like a Cobra and have moved the coil overs inboard a bit and have a rear bumper and hitch receiver all tucked up under the body back there it's very tight. I have tabs on my lower links already but I would love to make it a frame mounted bar instead of just a link to link, that way IF I need any pre-load for a clean launch I can dial it in for the track then go back to street mode easily. I am surprised those 175's are enough on the back of yours even with the sway bar. I know my car is porky being a full option ride with a few extras but I was surprised when my 175-350 springs were at full coil bind at ride height. I just ordered up straight 350's for it. I know my iron hemi will be a lot heavier on the nose too so I am starting with 400 up there. I have changed to proma's all around for my shocks but I'm still a long ways from go-cart stage so I'll update the results later. I will be running 27" tall all around IF it comes together the way I hope it will so bottoming tire to fender will be my risk. Are you unhooking the front sway and going soft up front for better transfer Saturday? And weigh your car while there so we can use that data on the spring results please.
Thanks for sharing the data
Dale

[stacked33]

Front sway tube is on but I'm still waiting on my friend for the custom clamp for the attachment to the a-arm tube. I wanted it to be a clamp on billet device and have a urethane iso point where the bolt from the heim goes through it. I will design my rear sway dead last so it doesn't get in the way of my rear dual exhaust. Since I have the rear tank like a Cobra and have moved the coil overs inboard a bit and have a rear bumper and hitch receiver all tucked up under the body back there it's very tight. I have tabs on my lower links already but I would love to make it a frame mounted bar instead of just a link to link, that way IF I need any pre-load for a clean launch I can dial it in for the track then go back to street mode easily. I am surprised those 175's are enough on the back of yours even with the sway bar. I know my car is porky being a full option ride with a few extras but I was surprised when my 175-350 springs were at full coil bind at ride height. I just ordered up straight 350's for it. I know my iron hemi will be a lot heavier on the nose too so I am starting with 400 up there. I have changed to proma's all around for my shocks but I'm still a long ways from go-cart stage so I'll update the results later. I will be running 27" tall all around IF it comes together the way I hope it will so bottoming tire to fender will be my risk. Are you unhooking the front sway and going soft up front for better transfer Saturday? And weigh your car while there so we can use that data on the spring results please.
Thanks for sharing the data
Dale

At this point I do not have a stabilizer in the front and probably wont add one as I like the feel of it now. 175s are not even close to bottoming out. I was worried they might under hard acceleration but the anti squat geometry of the rear suspension compensates nicely and as seen in the video I posted earlier the back stays at pretty much the same height and plants the tires. The instant center is probably 8-10 inches off the ground and just under my knees or feet. I have weighed the car but not each corner. The car is 2400# as it sits now. My engine now is about 50# heavier than a standard Ford small block, due to my intake being heavier and the "Boss 351" block is beefier.
Stacked33

[myjones]

At this point I do not have a stabilizer in the front and probably wont add one as I like the feel of it now. 175s are not even close to bottoming out. I was worried they might under hard acceleration but the anti squat geometry of the rear suspension compensates nicely and as seen in the video I posted earlier the back stays at pretty much the same height and plants the tires. The instant center is probably 8-10 inches off the ground and just under my knees or feet. I have weighed the car but not each corner. The car is 2400# as it sits now. My engine now is about 50# heavier than a standard Ford small block, due to my intake being heavier and the "Boss 351" block is beefier.
Stacked33

I may have to re-visit the anti-squat numbers/website on mine at the end since I dropped my tire height a bit. My 4 link LCA's are a bit too steep at this point.
Do you have a beginning length 12" ? and a final length on the front springs at ride height?
The back springs were binding partly because of the 350 portion taking up space and putting all the load on the short 175 portion. If they were 12" 175's it would have spread the load and coils more evenly.
I'm betting mine comes in just under 3K, Dan says it will weigh 2820 IIRC. I guessed 55% front and he said 51.5% F <I hope he wins the beer. Want to pick some numbers?

[stacked33]

I may have to re-visit the anti-squat numbers/website on mine at the end since I dropped my tire height a bit. My 4 link LCA's are a bit too steep at this point.
Do you have a beginning length 12" ? and a final length on the front springs at ride height?
The back springs were binding partly because of the 350 portion taking up space and putting all the load on the short 175 portion. If they were 12" 175's it would have spread the load and coils more evenly.
I'm betting mine comes in just under 3K, Dan says it will weigh 2820 IIRC. I guessed 55% front and he said 51.5% F <I hope he wins the beer. Want to pick some numbers?

FYI, for what it is worth. Fronts are 10" 250# compressed to 7.25 at ride height. Light springs with more compression help the weight transfer at launch.
Rears are 8" 175# Eibach's compressed to 6" at ride height. I set the foam rings against the shock and after 2500 miles the foam is about 1.5 to 1.75 above the shock which would indicate the max travel encountered. That would be from road bumps as the most compression I had seen from a dead hook launch with 450# of gravity muscle(my daughters boyfriend and I) was less than an inch. That puts my tire pretty close to the body but it has never hit.

[Robert Andrew]

Great job Dale. I think you were a wonderful ambsssador for FF5. You would have sold some cars for them if you had some brochures. And I'm sure you have jump started the next generation of car builders by letting a bunch of kids sit in the drivers seat. Lots of ear to ear smiles.

Everyone should have the opportunity to see the engineering and craftsmanship you have invested in your late model hemi powered Hotrod. You have engineered so many modifications to your car, that I would have to have my notes and photos to recall them all. The big ones that I recall are the modified four link suspension to center the rear end in the wheel wells. That should have been corrected in the first production car. The frame and hinge system for the deck lid is very well thought out. The rear frame extension and rear mounted fuel tank is certainly a great idea. The more compliant QA1 coil overs will certainly make the car more pleasant to drive on the street. The reinforcing for the running boards was a great piece of engineering as well. Its a well thought out car with great quality. Good job.

Anyone building a 33 Hotrod should watch Dale's car go together. Talk to him, he's a very sharp, seasoned veteran, car guy, and an all around good guy too!

[Robert Andrew]

Retired yes, but he's not an old fart, just smart enough to retire while he can still have some fun. I know an old fart when I see one, because I see one in the mirror every morning.

[myjones]

Great job Dale. I think you were a wonderful ambsssador for FF5. You would have sold some cars for them if you had some brochures. Good job.

Aw shucks RA bring your car by and I'll wash it again this week for you too .
I was surprised that Sally didn't answer my E-mail asking for brochures and to buy 5 coloring books to give to the kids. She's usually very prompt to reply.
Dale

[MT-ED]

What a fabulous way to display the car. "Real" car guys will totally get it seeing the car in it's bare-bones state like that. Good promo for FF.

Did you get any comments on your modifications? I would imagine the dude in the straw hat would have noticed a lot of changes if he's done his homework properly.

As ever Dale, it gets better and better. Going to be stunning when it's completed. I won't use the word finished because I bet most owners keep on tweaking them and making changes.

Martin.

[myjones]

What a fabulous way to display the car. "Real" car guys will totally get it seeing the car in it's bare-bones state like that. Good promo for FF.
Did you get any comments on your modifications? I would imagine the dude in the straw hat would have noticed a lot of changes if he's done his homework properly.
As ever Dale, it gets better and better. Going to be stunning when it's completed. I won't use the word finished because I bet most owners keep on tweaking them and making changes.
Martin.

I saw a Cobra at the HB show without the body but it had all the aluminum on it so it was a whole different kind naked, I did get several "are you building these for sale". Nope it's a one off for me.
The straw hat guy likely didn't catch what was original and what wasn't, I don't think he's been that far in the weeds yet. Don't know if it will ever be done but I do hope to drive it at some point.
Thanks Martin
DB

[Foristell]

Your 33 project is a great example how these kits can be individualized and to also to showcase your creative talent. You've done a great job. I have incorporated several ideas from your build in my 33 project.
-Larry

[myjones]

Your 33 project is a great example how these kits can be individualized and to also to showcase your creative talent. You've done a great job. I have incorporated several ideas from your build in my 33 project.
-Larry

Uh-OH
Larry I forgot to update you when none of those ideas worked out, sorry about that.
Thanks and do tell, which ones you decided to emulate?
Dale

[Foristell]

I am using the 4 link upper and lower control arm setup. I like the adjust-ability so I can center the back wheels in the fender opening and that it has the tabs welded on the lower control arms for a sway bar. I bought the QA1 setup so once I get the car on the road I will have to determine if sway bars will be necessary for the stiffness setting I end up going with. I also will be looking at using your trunk hinge setup. That looks almost like it was designed for the car.

[myjones]

I am using the 4 link upper and lower control arm setup. I like the adjust-ability so I can center the back wheels in the fender opening and that it has the tabs welded on the lower control arms for a sway bar. I bought the QA1 setup so once I get the car on the road I will have to determine if sway bars will be necessary for the stiffness setting I end up going with. I also will be looking at using your trunk hinge setup. That looks almost like it was designed for the car.

The trunk hinge idea came from another kit company that makes an all steel 33 body thus a lot more expensive. With their steel trunk lid they didn't need the curved side tubes because their lid was up to the point load. Since you don't have the extended rear clip you will need to add a bit of steel at the side of the opening to mount the hinges to. WHAT your rear wheels weren't already centered in the body??

I am having a bit of trouble getting just the right spring for my ride height on the front. The custom upper and lower A-arms I made need a shorter/softer spring to get down low enough. I am trying to fine tune that now instead of fighting it after all the radiator and pulley stuff is in the way. Did you see the post from Cali where the guy built his as delivered? He has 140 miles on it and says it's "way too harsh" at least he will know exactly what happens for the money he spends to make it suit him.
If you get to KC drop by.
Dale

[Foristell]

My rear end setup is a little different so maybe it sits a little further forward than the original factory five upper and lower control arms using the 8.8" housing. I am using a 9 inch Moser housing designed to be a drop in for the fox body mustang and am using a 3.50 geared 3rd member that I had rebuilt with all Yukon billet posi-trac parts. Since I had this stuff sitting around in the garage for a number of years I would try to get some use out of it. When I get further along I would like to stop by to look at trunk hinge setup.33 pic4.jpg

[myjones]

My rear end setup is a little different so maybe it sits a little further forward than the original factory five upper and lower control arms using the 8.8" housing. When I get further along I would like to stop by to look at trunk hinge setup.33 pic4.jpg

I was being a bit snarky. I tried to ask the man that designed the 33 from soup to nuts in the digital world what happened along the way that caused the wheelbase to be different than the body.
He got irate and told me it wasn't and that I/we didn't know what we were looking at. When I explained that a lot of members have seen the same thing he tried to blame it on another owner telling us all that it was off center. You had the same results with your Moser, since it was designed for a Fox it would have been about an inch short. Come by when you can, just not while I'm at SEMA or ElMirage.
Dale

[erlihemi]

Dale,
I usually refer to those digital based dimensional oversights as "Kids on CAD".

[myjones]

Dale,
I usually refer to those digital based dimensional oversights as "Kids on CAD".

That's a catchy phrase but I still use crayons to convey my thoughts on design so I can't really cast any stones on others ability in the digital world. I did take offense to being told
I couldn't see whether or not a wheel was centered in the opening. Any progress on your HR?
Dale

[MT-ED]

I heard that Stevie Wonder is writing a song about rear wheel centering since he noticed the anomaly. He wants to resurrect an old title but can't decide on "Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing" or "He's Mistra Know It All".

Meanwhile, for fans of Hemis, check this out and do some counting.

[myjones]

I heard that Stevie Wonder is writing a song about rear wheel centering since he noticed the anomaly. He wants to resurrect an old title but can't decide on "Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing" or "He's Mistra Know It All".
Meanwhile, for fans of Hemis, check this out and do some counting.

That's quite a find, a six pack to go and it would solve some packaging problems while leaving room for a Potvin
Shame on you for the Stevie could see it joke
DB

[MT-ED]

My bad, but you get the point right?

It's funny how we think alike. I took one look at that V6 and thought "packaging". That chassis is intended for a '36 Willys, which aren't exactly big cars.

[myjones]

My bad, but you get the point right? It's funny how we think alike. I took one look at that V6 and thought "packaging". That chassis is intended for a '36 Willys, which aren't exactly big cars.

I sent that picture to my buddy/top fuel 2 time world champion Ray Motes and he said "funny coincidence". He had just traded E-mails with Nick Arias about something else when my mail came in with that picture of the Arias Hemi in it. I'll have to ask him for the skinny on that motor.
Dale

[Pro Built]

Wow looks great