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Thread: Tuning/engine problem

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    Tuning/engine problem

    So I have been working with a reputable tuner and my problem does not seem to be tune related but it did occur while tuning. Figured I would ask here in case anybody has a suggestion.

    I have no CEL (check engine light).
    My cruise light is constantly flashing.
    My idle remains around 1000 rpm but when driving and stopping when warmed up idle will bounce down to the bottom of the tach and then back up over 1000 rpm. Almost stalls out.
    vacuum is stable in the car around 20 psi except when idle is fluctuating.
    06 WRX donor with a lot of modifications.
    Car ran perfect all weekend and then Monday this started.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    The flashing cruise light means that the car is in limp mode.

    Being that it started during tuning I'm going to guess that its an injector.

    Did the tuner run a learning view of the car or at least pull the codes when it started?

    If it went into limp mode it has a permanent code stored. The below are the common codes you will see if a injector goes out.

    P0171 Fuel System Too Lean (Bank 1)
    P0174 Fuel System Too Lean (Bank 2)
    P0261 Fuel Injector Circuit Low - #1
    P0264 Fuel Injector Circuit Low - #2
    P0267 Fuel Injector Circuit Low - #3
    P0270 Fuel Injector Circuit Low - #4
    P0301 Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
    P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
    P0303 Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
    P0304 Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
    P1301 Misfire Detected (High Temperature Exhaust Gas)
    P1313 Misfire Detected Signal Circuit High Input
    P1314 Misfire Detected Signal Circuit Low Input

    Could have also just misfired badly during tuning which will kick it into limp. And then coincidentally developed an intake air control valve issue as well.

    A dirty IACV will cause surging and falling idle.

    Or if the tuner got your MAF table or latency tables far enough out of true, it will do what you are describing as well.

  3. #3
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    Wayne Presley's Avatar
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    Read your codes out of the ECU to start with.
    Do you have any way to data log?

    sssly, the 06 is a drive by wire and does not have an IAC...
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    First I doubt that I am in limp mode. And as Wayne stated it is an 06 dbw car.

    Second there is no CEL. And when scanning for codes nothing comes up.

    I am using tactrix with ecuflash and romraider for tuning and logging.

    The last codes that did come up were for fuel pressure and fuel temp. I removed both of those sensors when making my tank harness though. My tuner cleared those codes.

    Could this be a simple problem like a failing front o2 sensor?

  5. #5
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    check for a leak post turbo. Are you using a stock intercooler?

    check your oil level.

    check your vacuum lines to the boost control solenoid and fuel pressure regulator for leaks, do you have them connected to the right locations?

    inspect and clean the maf. does unplugging it change anything?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    I agree check for air leaks. Are you running an AFR gauge? If so, does your air fuel ratio fluctuate at idle? It should be about 14.7. Also, are you running a recirculation valve or vent to atmosphere bov? If you're running the latter and the internal bov spring force is not set properly,this can sometimes cause the stall condition after the revs drop.

  7. #7
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    I had a leak right where the BPV met with the TMIC on my old Saabaru. Car tried to die multiple times, boost was erratic at best. Couldn't go over 45. Fixed the problem at a reststop on the way to get tuned at 6 am with a bunch of people and everything was grazy. That was a fun morning, I was also running so rich before the tune I almost knocked out my friend driving behind me.

  8. #8
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 305mouse View Post
    I had a leak right where the BPV met with the TMIC on my old Saabaru. Car tried to die multiple times, boost was erratic at best. Couldn't go over 45. Fixed the problem at a reststop on the way to get tuned at 6 am with a bunch of people and everything was grazy. That was a fun morning, I was also running so rich before the tune I almost knocked out my friend driving behind me.
    Ahhh...the trip where I drove 4 hours to find out I had rod knock, tuner said "take it easy, it'll blow" so I drove home and autocross it the next day. ahhh...the good ol days.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    Been working on it.

    First step was to get my wideband working again, threw an error code but I got it working again and calibrated it.

    The car idles around 1000 rpm and stays steady around 14.7 AFR. When cycling on and off throttle especially under load the idle will bounce around from lean to rich, say 13.0-16.0. Idle dips down around the 500 tick mark and then up to about 1250 before settling around 1000.

    I have been looking for a leak somewhere but have not found one. I have a grimmspeed tmic and a gfb respons BOV that was set to fully recirculate. I checked the connections on the BOV and tightened the spring slightly with no change. The only reason I changed the bov was because the prev owner had modified the stock bov.

    As far as disconnecting the MAF.... car shuts of immediately and codes for MAF circuit low (P0102) and IAT cicuit (P0113). I reset the ECU and the codes went away with the MAF hooked back up.

    Will keep digging tomorrow.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    so ran a compression test....

    1 - 120
    2 - 80
    3 - 120
    4 - 60

    numbers taken on cold engine but I am willing to bet I have cracked ringlands.... Looks like I will be down for a while figuring this out

  11. #11
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    bummer, how much mileage was on the motor?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    The donor had 18K on it and seemed to be running and driving fine.
    Seemed to run and drive in the 818 fine except for some idle fluctuations. Put about 80 miles on it.
    For those 80 Miles it was babied and logged to tune it.

    After some trouble with tuning I checked the roughness monitor which showed a max of 8 in cylinders 2 and 4. Not enough to throw a CEL but enough to perform the compression test. And of course a problem.

    NOTE: EVERYONE AT A MINIMUM PERFORM A COMPRESSION TEST BEFORE BUILDING YOUR CAR

    Wish I checked that last year

    Time to learn a lot more about Subaru engines.

  13. #13
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    ok try this for me before you go all crazy put some oil down the cylinders that are low and see if it comes up

  14. #14
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    Tofer, are you saying to add oil to the engine through the spark plug ports, cycle the engine, and then check compression again?

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    yes squirt oil in the plugs hole, then retry compression test. Or you can use a leak down tester
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    So I tried the oil in the plugs hole trick (wet compression test). Results did not seem to change... However I do not feel that with the design of this engine that a wet compression test actually works. Any thoughts on this?

  17. #17
    Research Calibrator sponaugle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickshift84 View Post
    So I tried the oil in the plugs hole trick (wet compression test). Results did not seem to change... However I do not feel that with the design of this engine that a wet compression test actually works. Any thoughts on this?
    It can work, but of course since the engine is horizontal it is hard to get oil at the top of the cylinder. The most common failure that causes this kind of drop in compression is a broken ring land.



    In that case, the oil will make no difference. You could do a leakdown which can differentiate between a piston failure and a valve failure... but either way you are rebuilding.

  18. #18
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    Just out of curiosity, would you mind sharing how the WRX was modified when you got it?

  19. #19
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
    It can work, but of course since the engine is horizontal it is hard to get oil at the top of the cylinder. The most common failure that causes this kind of drop in compression is a broken ring land.



    In that case, the oil will make no difference. You could do a leakdown which can differentiate between a piston failure and a valve failure... but either way you are rebuilding.
    Agreed!
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  20. #20
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    well you haven't abused it so the block might be fine. If there's no scoring, with that mileage you may not even have to hone If you are looking to get back up and running quickly, since you have modest power goals, pick up a set of drop in pistons and be back up and running in a day.

    http://www.rallysportdirect.com/CP-P...FScV7AodI3gASg
    Last edited by longislandwrx; 09-25-2014 at 06:55 AM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Stickshift84's Avatar
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    When I purchased my donor it was all stock. However it had a modified stock recirculating valve and the factory ebcs lines were replaced with windshield washer fluid lines.... I suspect a previous owner was running a manual boost controller and did not put the factory lines back.

    I am currently working with boxer motorsports for either a rebuilt stock ej257 long block or rebuilding/upgrading my long block.

    I have never rebuilt an engine but I have thoughts on doing that as well. How difficult could it really be?

  22. #22
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Stickshift,
    Since your problem cylinders are both on the same side of the engine. Is it possible you just blow the head gasket on that side?
    Did it overheat or anything when it blew?
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-25-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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  23. #23
    Research Calibrator sponaugle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickshift84 View Post
    I have never rebuilt an engine but I have thoughts on doing that as well. How difficult could it really be?
    The EJ block is one of the easiest to rebuild. Very few special tools needed. Perhaps the only 'unusual' thing is the wrist pin clip install.

  24. #24
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    well you haven't abused it so the block might be fine. If there's no scoring, with that mileage you may not even have to hone If you are looking to get back up and running quickly, since you have modest power goals, pick up a set of drop in pistons and be back up and running in a day.

    http://www.rallysportdirect.com/CP-P...FScV7AodI3gASg
    You always should hone when installing new pistons so the rings seats and seal properly. Plus sometimes there's a slight ridge from the pistons travel that's good to hone out. A bore might not need to be done is a better way to put it. Most ringland issues do cause scoring and a bore is needed. Boxer motorsports has a good rep and should do a stand up job, there are other options in you database. I have put a few EJs together and a few EZs along with many ford v8's and a bunch of ford turbo diesels. The EJ is not overly complicated, and achievable, but 1-1,500 labor to have someone teardown and rebuild is worth it because the whole process can be pretty time consuming. Teardown, measure it all a few times, get stuff machined, order parts, rebuild etc etc. I toar my motor down and sent to machine shop ( it is getting done this coming week) than my friends at Wicked innovations are going to assemble my shortblock and than I will build the rest. They might even get it to longblock if I run into free time troubles. It's not that I can't do it, I just don't have the extra time to always get it done. You could get the right tools, good torque wrench, ring compressor, etc etc. it's up to you, but I tend to send motor stuff out now.

    On my motor 2 and 4 had almost the same readings as nick and my other side was 1 and 3 had 124 and 125 but both sides head gaskets were leaking internally. 2 and 4 had cracked ringlands and 2 had some minor scoring. I needed a bore and hone and head resurfacing and rebuild. My crank, rods and all journals were spotless.
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 09-25-2014 at 04:15 PM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  25. #25
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    The only thing that causes a flashing cruise is limp mode. Service indicator technically. Don't know why they did it separate from the CEL.

    A roughness of 8 will put the car in limp.

    I've worked almost exclusively on v2-9 Subarus in Japan. And I always forget that the US market used DBW in the WRXs. Good call.

    Blowing #2 & 4 ring lands would still have me looking for a fuel problem. Undersized/blown injectors, undersized/blown pump.

    Or bad oil pump/cracked pickup.

    Ruling out a bad tune of course.

    If you have a tactrix, dowload and run a "learning view" of the car. Will show not only the current stored DTCs, but the previous temp DTCs as well. And it will show you your deviations from your AFR table, which could clue you in to where the problem is.

    Can also check the overflow tank for oil. Can clue you in to a head gasket. The smoke pouring out the back of the car would probably have already done that though if it was that bad.

    If you can put an 818 together, you can rebuild a boxer engine. Just follow the FSM step by step and you should be golden. I would second metalmakers post though. Always hone and it is time consuming.

    If you need a FSM hit me up and I can send it to you. I also have a whole cabinet full of stock Subaru 2.0l forged pistons out of ej207s and 20gs if you want to go forged but don't want to shell out the cash for some Wisecos or the like.

    If you pull a learning view and are having trouble decoding it, if you post up a screen shot or send it to me, I can help decipher it. Same for a tune, with the maps and logs. I'm EFI certified and have been tuning Subarus for a little over 5 years.

  26. #26
    Research Calibrator sponaugle's Avatar
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    A few things to consider:

    You can buy a new shortblock from Subaru for about $1800, which includes everything new (rods, crank, bearings, pistons, etc). You could even step up to a 2.5L for the same price.

    If you were going to rebuild, you could purchase new case halfs for about $800, although if your case halfs are in good shape having them cleaned and honed is only a few hundred dollars at most. If the case halfs need to be bored, I might just consider getting a new case. The new 705 castings are sexy.

    You could pay someone to assemble the shortblock, which I would guess is probably something in the $800-$1000 range. If you wanted to rebuild the block yourself, you would need a few accurate tools to measure bearing surfaces. Those are about $600 from amazon. It is probably a matter of time that makes the most difference. A shop could build your block in a few days, but if you do it yourself it will probably take longer.

    If you do rebuild, don't use the stock pistons. Get any of the popular forged 2618 one. Your donor is an 06 so you can't use the JDM EJ207s ones obviously.

    I say build it yourself.. then again you should probably ignore me given the crazy stuff I do.

    Jeff

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