Bringing a knife to a gun fight!! 818 vs GTM

[metalmaker12]

Today I got the chance to drive a 818 and GTM. I am going to give you guys the pros and cons of both cars build quality and performance.

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818: image.jpg

Engine: 2.0 image.jpg

Tranny: 5spd with cusco 1.5 LSD and act clutch with k tuned shifter

Brakes: 9

Roof: soft top

Wiring: vcp

Tune: vcp

Power and delivery : 8

Handling: 10

Ride quality: 9

Drivability: 9

Agility: 10

Overall Build Quality: 9


Car drove very solid and had decent power low,but it really came alive around 4,500 rpms. Has incredible mid range like my setup had. I am not a huge fan of the k tuned shifter vs the FFR one in terms of engaging. Could just be my preferance but it just seems too gated and tuff to shift. Paint was perfect and a very metalic copper orange (awesome color and ghost like two tone). Overall body fitment was good but interior accents and finish needs some attention, but was prob done in a rush which brought my overall score a point lower. Car is a well built car, and I am glad I got a chance to drive it.

[metalmaker12]

image.jpg
Now driving the GTM is a totally different driving experience:
The 818 is pretty fast, it handles on rails and is a joy to drive, this GTM is insane fast due to the insane low end power from Jim's 5.3 with 358 whp and 339 torque on tap the entire rev range. It hard to control if you blast it off. One I am too short for his seating to pedal distance, so when I would launch this missile forward I would get glued to the seat and my foot came off the pedal and that was no fun. And two this car is an absolute torque monster with a insane power band.

Engine: 5.3 L33 with 358whp and 339 torque pretty much as soon as you touch the throttle.

Tranny: Porsche g50- 03 with LSD

Brakes: 8

Roof: hard top ( part of car lol)

Wiring: Mike Everson wire diet

Tuning: SMG

Power and delivery: 10 plus (insane)

Handling: 9

Ride quality: 8

Drivability: 7

Agility: 8

Overall build quality: 10

The car is a pristine example of a GTM and IMO the best looking one I have ever seen inside and out. The color and the accents just really work with the lines. The engine is an odd choice for most GTM builders, but it's a kick in the pants torque monster with enough power to set a permanent grin or your grill. You really can't drive a better GTM and I thanked Jim for the experiences. I am still shaking!!! The GTM is a .45 With hollow points and the 818 is a sharp samurai sword that can beat the giant in agility and drivability but in pure monster force has little chance no matter what we can do to the ej or even ez. No replacement for displacement! I love em both

[carbon fiber]

Nice write up. He's fixin' to put an 88mm turbo on that thing too...

[Kalstar]

Nice write up. He's fixin' to put an 88mm turbo on that thing too...

Or twin Holset HE351cw turbos

Good analogy. My GTM is really prefect the way it sits. 3.2sec 0-60, aprox 10.9sec 1/4. With the gearing... 0-100 could be matched by very few production cars. Because of the reliability of these 5.3 engines, they are worthless on resale in bone yards, they basically sell them for the value they could get in scrap metal. 200k miles is a reasonable expectation for it's useful life and in stock form can stay together with over 1200 hp of turbo induced power thrown at them. Sub 100k engines can be found for as low as $250. Like I said in another post, I just picked up an all aluminum L33 with 83k miles for $300.00. They are basically plug and play. The truck ECU and TAC will work with the Vette pedal and harness. The only thing is the front accessories that are different that can be modified to fit. If anyone doubts what a 5.3 can do in a GTM, look me up (I am 10 mins from the factory) I will give you a ride. The GTM price was raised about a year ago by 5k, buying an engine for $500 instead of $5000 wipes out the increase and with boost, will make a monster engine far higher in output then any Vette engine you can pull from a donor. In NA form it is still crazy fast as Chris can attest. BTW, this was the Budget Build car (I am under 30k in parts receipts). The 818 is an awesome car, but no doubt the big brother can still woop ***, even on the cheap.

Funny Chris didn't mention. When he was driving it he heard a few knocks coming from the engine compartment, not engine knocks, something else. See some dummy (namely me) was test fitting a large turbo last night and left it in (unbolted) when I called it a night. Well the turbo went for a ride with Chris. No harm no fowl, just a little Doooooope (in the best Homer Simson voice I can muster) when I remembered my folly.

[metalmaker12]

Yeah he's got a couple bolts missing like most of us forum members

[metalmaker12]

I was trying to save your good name sir, who does that. Yeah I was going to tell him man something's loose back there, but it was a 70mm turbo flying around on top his tranny brace. A daaaaaa

[carbon fiber]

Now that's funny. The added power will probably slow your 0-60 time but the 60-150 will be insane. I'm looking forward to seeing it come together.

[metalmaker12]

I also tested another 818 on Saturday. Nicks matte blue pearl 818 2.5.
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Engine: 2.5 wrx est 225 whp

Tranny: 5spd with LSD

Roof: open roadster


Wiring: Nicks own

Tuning: Nick using an open-source off the shelf revised map. Obd2

Power and delivery: 8

Ride quality: 10

Brakes: 10

Handling: 9

Drivability: 10

Agility: 10

Overall build quality: 9

The 2.5 with avcs has beefier low end than the none avcs 2.0. It's much more like a jdm 2.0 twinscroll with avcs. It's felt much like my own 818 in its power delivery. I did not get to really get into nicks car because he has a mechanical issue, but it had boost onset at 2600 and pretty much full at around 4. His 4 pot brakes ( same ones I have stop on a dime for sure).
Nicks fitment and finish are second to none and if it was paint he had a ten. He has done the best one can do with the plastic dip, but it just won't hold up like paint and takes just as long.

Ps, on the flipside matte blue is killer looking, And if on a budget can be the way to go

[metalmaker12]

I also have a review of my own 818

Engine: 2.0 jdm avcs twinscroll est 250-260 whp ( adding 100whp with fully built bottom end and ported heads with Blouch 1.5 twinscroll and id 1000 injectors etc)

Tranny: 5spd with cusco 1.5 LSD and act clutch, stock flywheel


Brakes: 10

Wiring: Myself

Tuning: Wicked M / and myself basemap road opensource

Power and delivery: 9

Ride quality: 9

Drivability: 10

Agility: 10

Overall build quality: na ( was in gelcoat)

The ej207 is a killer engine in the 818 because it builds power early and revs higher than any other ej in stock form. It is also balanced the best and has a smooth power delivery. Unfortunately I payed no attention to the details of high iat temps and toasted my pistons.

[Hindsight]

Nice.... I lust after the torque at any RPM in the GTM (not to mention the sound), but the value of the 818 over the GTM is better by many orders of magnitude. Would have built the Roadster if I had the money (to do one the way I want it'd cost $45k+) but ended up with the 818 because of value, and because I've worked on imports my whole life (German ones though - this is my first foray into Japanese stuff).

[metalmaker12]

I personally think the 818 can be the total package of value and performance, it's only really in its first full year of production so only time and inovation will tell. For a performance car it's about as smooth as you want a car that can pull 1.5 plus g's. I think once we all sort out the subie gremlins and get the power under control it will be an absolute perfectly balanced monster.

The Gtm is an absolute torque monster that takes less input and much more attention to detail to drive. It is a car you must be on top of all of the time because every input matters. Compairing my 818 with the Gtm is slightly closer on power onset, but still not what Jim's car has. I would have to break 400 whp to get my powrband even close to what this thing had going on. Jim's car feels electric in power, like it has full torque at 1,500 rpms or less. Remember it's not just how much power you make, but when you make it and for how long of a duration. His first gear only revs to 4,500 and than his redline is only 6,800. I am going to see if he has dyno sheets, but enough about a GTM, this is a 818 discussion.

My car will be getting its heart back soon with a couple new valves and a new pace maker.
With some more pony it might be a step closer to what this GTM puts out.

[fact5racer]

Chris, if you like Jim's GTM's power, You should take a drive up to NH and try my GTM-X. I was at 408 hp with the belt slipping on the blower never showing boost on the guage. I thought the guage was broken until Slowhawk Dynoed it and informed me about the belt slipping to the point that above 3500rpms it was making 0 boost. Now, since replacing the non-sprung pulley tensioner to the oem one as Slowhawk informed me that the non-sprungs won't work with a blower.....Now the boost gauge is dancing and trust me, you do need to hold on!

[metalmaker12]

I love the power, but anymore might make me loose my lunch. It's just so much damn torque so soon, any more would just light the tires on fire!! I can't see anymore than 400-450 whp being useful on either car. I will be up to NH to pic up my motor in Manchester, PM send me pics and your contact, I would love to experience another GTM and write a full review that actually has good grammar and spelling is right lol. I am going to start a site soon doing just this sort of thing for FFR and other handbuilt cars. It's a lot of fun to see what's out there and spread the word.

[wallace18]

Nice review. Can't say I agree with you on the first 818 but I have a vested interest in that one. LOL. But you as well as anyone have your opinions. I agree Jim's GTM is awesome. Wish I had time to go for a ride, Maybe on the K818 delivery I can get one.

[metalmaker12]

Nice review. Can't say I agree with you on the first 818 but I have a vested interest in that one. LOL. But you as well as anyone have your opinions. I agree Jim's GTM is awesome. Wish I had time to go for a ride, Maybe on the K818 delivery I can get one.

The car is sick, paint is super nice and drives very good overall. I am just a car reviewer and try to call em as I see em. All these cars are top notch and I am a fan of them all. They all have certain pros and cons, but that's what makes them unique and just so cool

[Frank818]

How can the ride quality vary from 818 to 818? Is the suspension different or dialed in differently?

How are the G50 gear ratios? I have a personal interest on that one!

[Kalstar]

Nice review. Can't say I agree with you on the first 818 but I have a vested interest in that one. LOL. But you as well as anyone have your opinions. I agree Jim's GTM is awesome. Wish I had time to go for a ride, Maybe on the K818 delivery I can get one.

Ride, he'll you will be driving it. I am very much looking forward to seeing the K818 again. Work is finally slowing up. I can get back on choosing my parts and getting them down to you.

The G50 gears are short, first is about 34mph, second 72, third if I remember right is 106, 4th 138, 5th 186. I basically start out in second all the time, first is only for slowing in a parking lot. 0-100 is insane, on the G-tech I have seen 6.3sec 0-100 several times. The cars that are this capable of this time/speed are some pretty lofty company. After 100 the frieght train becomes much more like Thomas the train. I am going turbo, just up in th air, twins for looks or a big single for simplicity. Here is a cool list of fastest of 0-100 cars. http://www.autosnout.com/Cars-0-100mph-Times-List.php

[Frank818]

Well, the Veyron SuperSport does 0-100mph in 4.9. You need more power, Kalstar. And maybe better gearing!
But, but! The original Veyron does 0-100 in 6.1!
Ferrari F12: 6.2
Ferrari 458 Spyder: 6.5
Ferrari California (non-turbo version): 9.2 (what a loser loll)
And the all-american pure monster Hennessey Venom GT, one of my favorite car: 5.9 (and probably still wheel spinning then)

So you are definitely in the big leagues!

As for G50, I will change some of my ratios as I am sure some won't be suited, you just confirmed. Not the same engine (2.8 turbo for me), but the principles are the same.

[metalmaker12]

How can the ride quality vary from 818 to 818? Is the suspension different or dialed in differently?

How are the G50 gear ratios? I have a personal interest on that one!

I have red R shocks with S springs, also tires design,thickness and compound play a role.

[shinn497]

1.5 G's ?!

I noticed that all of the 818's you tested were S's. Can you comment more on the situations with which you tested them ? Also I want to here more about the 818's performance compared. I here it can understeer AND oversteer. Under what situations would this be an issue and can it be dialed out.

Finally. Can you elaborate more on the ej207 vs the ej257 with avsc. So said the former is the superior engine but it also seems like the 257 has more low end torque. Is this extra high end worth it? Does the smaller engine have better throttle response? I'm curious this.

[metalmaker12]

I believe the max G's seen on the R was 1.7, and my G Meter measured 1.5 at my autocross a couple times when I was throwing it around. The car will break 1G daily easy.

I did street testing based on my own feedback, track testing and actual data will be a work in progress. On the street you really can't get the car to its limits unless your asking for an issue with the car or law enforcement. The 818 is the best handling car I have every been in or driven period. Understeer / oversteer will only been seen on a track or autocross.

The ej205 has the lack of any real power down low in stock form due to the non avcs heads and small turbo for its displacement. The ej255/257 is the power champ down low and revs decent enough to have some great mid range and good top end and a large meaty powerband.( the broadest powerband in terms of torque) The ej207 with the twin scroll and avcs has good lower end power with a smoother mid to awesome high range rev that is most suitable for the 818's weight. The extra revs are an advantage but not really needed in stock trim cause the vf37 can't keep up, but with a Blouch xtr 1.5 it is a great thing and will have ej257 torque with a super meaty powrband with 350-375 whp plus. These examples are in stock trim, any engine can be modded to be the ideal solution. The best setup in my option would be a fully built ej207 sleeved to a 2.35l with ported heads, oversized valves etc etc with even more insane cams all balanced to handle like 10k rpms with an insane Blouch xtr 2.5 or better.

[Frank818]

Metal, great reviews, we've been waiting for that kind of reviews for over a year. Are you sure you don't work for a car mag? loll

Do you think a street 818 can achieve 1.5G with super high end street tires?

[sponaugle]

0-100 is insane, on the G-tech I have seen 6.3sec 0-100 several times. The cars that are this capable of this time/speed are some pretty lofty company.

Indeed... that is a very quick 0-100mph time. My GT-R (FBO E85) has a 0-100 of 6.2-6.3, and a 1/4 mile time of 10.3@134mph... So I would expect a similar 1/4 time and perhaps an even higher trap speed. Nice.

Jeff

[metalmaker12]

Metal, great reviews, we've been waiting for that kind of reviews for over a year. Are you sure you don't work for a car mag? loll

Do you think a street 818 can achieve 1.5G with super high end street tires?

Lol, no but that would be my dream job. Grassroots I am waiting!!

I think it absolutely can!! I only have Yokohama s drives that are not supposed to be super sticky, but I have excellent grip in 70 plus degree weather. I also think they stick better than on an avg car because with these lite cars we lower the tire pressure and it seems to make the tires stick much better because they become slightly softer. I will be getting a second set of wheels and tires that are a race only setup(r compound sticky icky rubber), street tires have to stick but last longer to.

[metalmaker12]

Indeed... that is a very quick 0-100mph time. My GT-R (FBO E85) has a 0-100 of 6.2-6.3, and a 1/4 mile time of 10.3@134mph... So I would expect a similar 1/4 time and perhaps an even higher trap speed. Nice.

Jeff

The car is a torque monster, it's a blast. Next time I will grow three inches so I can actually drive it

[Kalstar]

Next time I will grow three inches so I can actually drive it

Are you talking about my car or your wife?

[Plebeian]

Thanks for the reviews. It mirrors my initial thoughts of the 818, potentially great handling, and lack of power. Lets face it, the 818 is only 10% lighter than the Roadster (some are nearly as light), and 20% lighter than a GTM, and they get to run V8's. Sure you can add bigger turbos, but at some point it effects driveability and transitional response. The fact that a very mildly powered GTM felt so much more powerful speaks volumes.

[sponaugle]

Thanks for the reviews. It mirrors my initial thoughts of the 818, potentially great handling, and lack of power. Lets face it, the 818 is only 10% lighter than the Roadster (some are nearly as light), and 20% lighter than a GTM, and they get to run V8's. Sure you can add bigger turbos, but at some point it effects driveability and transitional response. The fact that a very mildly powered GTM felt so much more powerful speaks volumes.

Exactly why I am doing 600whp and some good software traction control in my 818.

[Kalstar]

**a very mildly powered GTM felt so much more powerful speaks volumes.**

I say you bring what you got. I have a 588whp Renntech E55 and a H/C LS3 491whp C6 and the GTM walks both.

Jeff, the GTM, maybe due to gearing is not as impressive above 100. I have a buddy with an 09 GTR, from a dig he takes me for the first 30 ft but after that it is all GTM, by 100mph I have 5 cars on him, after 100 he starts reeling me back in.

[metalmaker12]

Guys, I never said the 818 can't do 0-60,0-100, 1/4 in a similar or better time with similar power. This GTM with a meaty v8 just has a thicker powerband than the mildly tuned 818's I tested. Subaru motors have huge potential and the sword can slice its way through the fight in the right trim. It's just easier and prob cheaper to make big power on jims V8 and it will have a more solid powerband in most cases. I admire both cars and with the same power it will be a dog fight.

Also in time I really do believe the 818 will be the fastest FFR track car. It just handles so very well

[sponaugle]

Jeff, the GTM, maybe due to gearing is not as impressive above 100. I have a buddy with an 09 GTR, from a dig he takes me for the first 30 ft but after that it is all GTM, by 100mph I have 5 cars on him, after 100 he starts reeling me back in.

Interesting. Indeed a combination of gearing and power per gear might be part of it.

The GTM is such a great looking car btw. I am considering building one once I finish the 818. A combination of V8 power with some twin turbos could make such a neat car.

Of course GTMs like yours is why my GTR looks like this as we speak:



The stock turbos are just not up to the task these days. Twin GT30s are going in so I can step up to 900whp.

Guys, I never said the 818 can't do 0-60,0-100, 1/4 in a similar or better time with similar power. This GTM with a meaty v8 just has a thicker powerband than the mildly tuned 818's I tested. Subaru motors have huge potential and the sword can slice its way through the fight in the right trim. It's just easier and prob cheaper to make big power on jims V8 and it will have a more solid powerband in most cases. I admire both cars and with the same power it will be a dog fight.

Also in time I really do believe the 818 will be the fastest FFR track car. It just handles so very well

Absolutely... I am often surprised how far the Subaru platform, and the EJ engine, has come. The biggest problem with the 818 will probably be traction. I am curious to see how it responds to lots of power. In the end, weight makes a big difference and that might be the key.

There is something nice about a meaty powerband, especially when you are driving around down at 6/10ths. Some days I'll drive my GTO (Twin Turbo V8) and other days my 08 STI ( 480whp ). If I really rip on the STI it has a fantastic feel, and in the bends it just sticks. The GTO on the otherhand floats along but has such smooth accelerations regardless of when you punch it. Different boats, but all fun!

Great reviews Metal. Lucky guy to have such friends!

Jeff

[Kalstar]

Damn!!!! That is the second car I have seen today with it's heart ripped out. A buddy (also a GTM owner) pulled his engine from his Turbo Atom (smoked tranny). A GTR, Twin GTO, STI and an 818.....you will fit in the GTM fold well.

Question for you (since obviously you like turbo cars)? My GTM is getting an upgrade (turbo or turbos). Your thoughts on a big turbo or 2 small?

Metal, I agree with you, the 818 is much more fun to drive in the twisties. Going from the Vette to the GTM feels like a quantum leap, going from the GTM to the 818 is also a suprisingly huge leap once the road curves. The 818 (the little brother) is lower in price, stature and style but has a lot going for it. The GTM will ride off into the sunset at some point, the 818 is the rebirth of Factory Five. The Mark 1 was what started it all, a replica of a dream car. They broke new ground with the one car donor concept using the then equivalent to todays WRX. The 818 is not a replica and uses the same principles that launched the company back in 1995. Being of it's own design and using the proven principles they learned over the past 20 years, the 818 and its ofspring will definitely keep Factory Five busy for a long time to come.

[Plebeian]

**a very mildly powered GTM felt so much more powerful speaks volumes.**

I say you bring what you got. I have a 588whp Renntech E55 and a H/C LS3 491whp C6 and the GTM walks both.

I meant no disrespect of your car saying it was mildly powered. My point was it doesn't take a lot of modifications with the LS engines to have a faster accelerating car compared to the 818.

Regarding bringing what I got, my FFR Roadster walks a Suzuki Hayabusa, so I think I'm safe. Cheers.

[Kalstar]

I meant no disrespect of your car saying it was mildly powered. My point was it doesn't take a lot of modifications with the LS engines to have a faster accelerating car compared to the 818.

Regarding bringing what I got, my FFR Roadster walks a Suzuki Hayabusa, so I think I'm safe. Cheers.

I read your threads. I know what you have. I would still run you (telephone pole to telephone pole). :-)

[Plebeian]

Kalstar, I vote for going twins. I'll also be curious how your drivetrain holds up under boost. Those LS engines can make stupid power with turbos. Cheers.

[sponaugle]

Damn!!!! That is the second car I have seen today with it's heart ripped out. A buddy (also a GTM owner) pulled his engine from his Turbo Atom (smoked tranny). A GTR, Twin GTO, STI and an 818.....you will fit in the GTM fold well.

Question for you (since obviously you like turbo cars)? My GTM is getting an upgrade (turbo or turbos). Your thoughts on a big turbo or 2 small?

Indeed, I dig turbos. 7 of my 12 cars are turbocharged.

For my GTO I went with the twin turbo setup in part because of the packaging. There is not a ton of room to the side of the headers, so fitting two smaller turbos is doable. To do a single large turbo would be harder fitment wise. There are people who have done it, and one of the methods has been to put the turbo at the back of the car (in the exhaust path), and plumb the compressed air back up. That isn’t a particularly efficient way to do it, but it does work.

It is interesting to see the trends in the LS space. I would guess for every 1 turbo or twin turbo LS I see there are 3 or 4 supercharged ones. There are some great options in the Maggies. They are reliable, produce good power, are much easier to install, don’t require changes to the exhaust past, and often don’t need a lot of fender work (typically water to air intercoolers). Perhaps the biggest downside to going with the supercharger is the upper limit on power. Most of those Maggie setups are being built to deliver 500-900whp. It is of course possible to do bigger, but you start to hit some inefficiencies.

As for the twin vs single choice, I think it most cases it will come down to what fits. It used to be more true that you could make more power with a single larger turbo due to the greater efficiencies of those turbos, but that is not as true today. There are so many options available now in medium size turbos, and with a large V8 you can maintain good spool on both.

The turbos I have on my GTO are Garrett GT3071s, and on pump fuel with a stock engine (so 10.1:1 compression) I have no problem getting over 600whp. With E85 I can probably get to 700whp, and if I were to rebuild the engine with lower compression and stronger pistons and rods I could certainly turn up the boost and get 800-900whp (especially on something like VP Import). Spool is around 3000rpm, but since I still have a high compression motor you really don’t notice any lag… unboosted you are pushing 400 lb-ft of torque by 3000 rpm anyways.

The turbos that are stock on the GT-R are close in size to the stock Subaru STI (VF39) turbo… so they are pretty small. With the stock turbos and all of the usual exhaust path and intake mods, plus E85, I made 607whp. That is pretty much the top of the stock turbo power. I am switching to a set of turbos that are based off the stock exhaust housing (it is an integrated exhaust housing and exhaust header). They are a very similar compressor wheel to the GTX3071 (slightly different then the GT3071), but a 7 blade design which typically produces a flatter compressor map. Since my engine and transmission is still 100% stock I will be limited to 600 lb-ft of torque which would equate to about 800 whp. In the winter I am considering jumping up to some GTX35Rs, as that could probably carry me to 1200whp.

So, to answer your question, I would do whichever you can make fit. If you have the room on the side of the motor to hang a pair of turbos, I would do that.

[Kalstar]

Indeed, I dig turbos. 7 of my 12 cars are turbocharged.

For my GTO I went with the twin turbo setup in part because of the packaging. There is not a ton of room to the side of the headers, so fitting two smaller turbos is doable. To do a single large turbo would be harder fitment wise. There are people who have done it, and one of the methods has been to put the turbo at the back of the car (in the exhaust path), and plumb the compressed air back up. That isn’t a particularly efficient way to do it, but it does work.

It is interesting to see the trends in the LS space. I would guess for every 1 turbo or twin turbo LS I see there are 3 or 4 supercharged ones. There are some great options in the Maggies. They are reliable, produce good power, are much easier to install, don’t require changes to the exhaust past, and often don’t need a lot of fender work (typically water to air intercoolers). Perhaps the biggest downside to going with the supercharger is the upper limit on power. Most of those Maggie setups are being built to deliver 500-900whp. It is of course possible to do bigger, but you start to hit some inefficiencies.

As for the twin vs single choice, I think it most cases it will come down to what fits. It used to be more true that you could make more power with a single larger turbo due to the greater efficiencies of those turbos, but that is not as true today. There are so many options available now in medium size turbos, and with a large V8 you can maintain good spool on both.

The turbos I have on my GTO are Garrett GT3071s, and on pump fuel with a stock engine (so 10.1:1 compression) I have no problem getting over 600whp. With E85 I can probably get to 700whp, and if I were to rebuild the engine with lower compression and stronger pistons and rods I could certainly turn up the boost and get 800-900whp (especially on something like VP Import). Spool is around 3000rpm, but since I still have a high compression motor you really don’t notice any lag… unboosted you are pushing 400 lb-ft of torque by 3000 rpm anyways.

The turbos that are stock on the GT-R are close in size to the stock Subaru STI (VF39) turbo… so they are pretty small. With the stock turbos and all of the usual exhaust path and intake mods, plus E85, I made 607whp. That is pretty much the top of the stock turbo power. I am switching to a set of turbos that are based off the stock exhaust housing (it is an integrated exhaust housing and exhaust header). They are a very similar compressor wheel to the GTX3071 (slightly different then the GT3071), but a 7 blade design which typically produces a flatter compressor map. Since my engine and transmission is still 100% stock I will be limited to 600 lb-ft of torque which would equate to about 800 whp. In the winter I am considering jumping up to some GTX35Rs, as that could probably carry me to 1200whp.

So, to answer your question, I would do whichever you can make fit. If you have the room on the side of the motor to hang a pair of turbos, I would do that.

Thx for the info, not to hijack Chris's thread lets pick this conversation up in the turbo build thread that I will create soon.

[Stickshift84]

Chris, thank you for the kind words about my build. The car is simply awesome to drive.

I had the pleasure of driving Chris's car before it bit blew. Our cars are different but the same. He has R shocks with S springs which rides harsher than mine. My car has a soft and comfortable feel to it which surprised me when I first drove it. I have a semi quiet exhaust and he has straight pipes (too loud imo to enjoy driving it). As far as driving the two my power definitely comes on sooner with the 2.5. I cannot comment on topend differences as I have not ran mine much above 4k rpms to try and preserve the engine for now. I can say his car pulled like a freight train after 4k. His lag may have been due to a mechanical problem though that he was developing before it blew. Both equally awesome. I will shortly be jealous of his new bright white paint when he gets it back together.

I do not know why people speak to oversteer vs understeer in this car. I take it to an empty parking lot near my house and cannot get it to do either at ludicrous t=urning speeds. This car just plain sticks to the ground and turns flat. I am also running falken azenis rt615 tires and have an 02 wrx sedan rear sway bar mounted in the front on the car. This car is incredible. I just wish I did not have engine problems so could see what it can really do.

If you are on the street and driving in turns fast enough to get oversteer you are asking for trouble.

obviously though if you stab the throttle around a turn it will rotate easily due to the power to weight.

[Harley818]

Chris & Stickshift84, these reviews about hands-on driving the 818 is really helpful as many of us are still making decisions about exhaust, AWIC, sway bars, etc. I already have a huge smile on my face just reading that you are satisfied with your builds, and the performance and looking to make more changes/improvements (or not). I'm just enjoying the build process for now, making changes, spending money and cutting weight as I go. I'm really keen to get to the go kart stage! Hopefully by Christmas.

[metalmaker12]

Chris, thank you for the kind words about my build. The car is simply awesome to drive.

I had the pleasure of driving Chris's car before it bit blew. Our cars are different but the same. He has R shocks with S springs which rides harsher than mine. My car has a soft and comfortable feel to it which surprised me when I first drove it. I have a semi quiet exhaust and he has straight pipes (too loud imo to enjoy driving it). As far as driving the two my power definitely comes on sooner with the 2.5. I cannot comment on topend differences as I have not ran mine much above 4k rpms to try and preserve the engine for now. I can say his car pulled like a freight train after 4k. His lag may have been due to a mechanical problem though that he was developing before it blew. Both equally awesome. I will shortly be jealous of his new bright white paint when he gets it back together.

I do not know why people speak to oversteer vs understeer in this car. I take it to an empty parking lot near my house and cannot get it to do either at ludicrous t=urning speeds. This car just plain sticks to the ground and turns flat. I am also running falken azenis rt615 tires and have an 02 wrx sedan rear sway bar mounted in the front on the car. This car is incredible. I just wish I did not have engine problems so could see what it can really do.

If you are on the street and driving in turns fast enough to get oversteer you are asking for trouble.

obviously though if you stab the throttle around a turn it will rotate easily due to the power to weight.

I love your 818 just as much as my own. The power delivery is different but equal just on opposite spectrums. I did think my lower end was pretty close when it was running correctly. And both are built very solid and with our unique styling ideas, some shared and some different. What's cool is we are both impressed with each other's cars. I wish we both did not have engine issues