Gary's 818SEx4

[Lumpyguy]

Lookin good bud keep it rolling, I get dibs on the first ride! LOL I finally got my finishing kit, suspension is almost done. I almost have a roller.

[Gary Livingston]

Lookin good bud keep it rolling, I get dibs on the first ride! LOL I finally got my finishing kit, suspension is almost done. I almost have a roller.

Hey Todd. Thanks man! Oh I'm envious of your progress! Glad u got ur kit and things are "Rollin". Got u down for first in the list.

[Speedy G]

Hey Gary, any progress on your car? I've started some of the electronics, but nothing on the chassis yet.

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Gary, any progress on your car? I've started some of the electronics, but nothing on the chassis yet.

Hey Speedy. Thanks for checking on me. Sorry guys. . .been laid up here with other issues. Hardly touched the car. I'll be starting back on it soon. Been scratching my head over the battery choice for a while. Getting some new ideas here....

[Gary Livingston]

I'll be using the Lear 3.3Kw Charger(s) I have two and can charge at 6.6kw if I choose. These chargers are used in the Chevy Volt, Coda and I believe the Spark as well.
Charge controller is Arduino based CAN controller to talk to the chargers. Charge voltage and current is fully programmable. This is from EVTV . . . the place u need to go for solid solutions.

[Speedy G]

Very Cool... any news on battery choice or are you just waiting for new ones to get to market? I'm definitely going with at least 1 pack of 20Ah A123 pouches. I'm also thinking about taking the heat off the batteries through the connectors. I won't have them for another 2 months though.

[ben1272]

curious what a motor/gearbox unit like that costs? Great build!

[Speedy G]

I just love the fact that the first 4WD 818 will be electric...

[Gary Livingston]

Very Cool... any news on battery choice or are you just waiting for new ones to get to market? I'm definitely going with at least 1 pack of 20Ah A123 pouches. I'm also thinking about taking the heat off the batteries through the connectors. I won't have them for another 2 months though.

Hey Speedy. Yeah I decided on using a Chevy Volt battery . It's actually quite powerful and will give up about 350kw. I will add another 24 Volts segment to it for a bit more range and headroom. I did want around 20kwh pack but 17.5 will do. I picked up a 2013 with only 1000km on the car, likely less on the battery. Essentially new.

[Speedy G]

Wow, now that's a battery! Good placement too! Does that mean you'll have a frunk and a real trunk? Those motors don't take up that much space...

Have you given thought to how you'll be shifting from park to drive or reverse? Will you use buttons or some kind of shifter?

[Gary Livingston]

Wow, now that's a battery! Good placement too! Does that mean you'll have a frunk and a real trunk? Those motors don't take up that much space...

Have you given thought to how you'll be shifting from park to drive or reverse? Will you use buttons or some kind of shifter?

I don't know what I'll have left for space but I should have some room. I'm probably going to put a rad in the back so that may eat up some space.
As for shifting, it will all be done by CAN control so could be either. I do have a rotary switch but I have t decided if I will use it. I rather like the shifter in my Volt as "low" is actually regen. I may have two regen levels/intensities. I like to use it often. I now have over 150 km on my volt and the brakes are like new.

[Gary Livingston]

This is the CAN motor controller. It can control other things also. It has two CAN Channels and some I/O as well. It's called GEVCU Generalized Electric Vehicle Controller. Again from Jack at EVTV.

[Lumpyguy]

looks good Gary, might want to put a seat in there and make sure you are ok for leg room? you have a battery right where the fire wall goes, it loks like it will fit just make sure you ok with the leg room.

[Gary Livingston]

looks good Gary, might want to put a seat in there and make sure you are ok for leg room? you have a battery right where the fire wall goes, it loks like it will fit just make sure you ok with the leg room.

Hey Todd. Thanks. Actually the battery just fits between the fire walls. There is about 1.5" at the back for it to sit in the design location. The front is a bit tight and has the cooling tubes poking thru. I'm more concerned with the width. Looks like I need to select one of the narrower seats to fit.

[Lumpyguy]

Cool, good luck on the seats, I got the Large NRG seats and they just fit snug in the stock spot they are perfect for most people who sit in them not sure smaller would limit who can sit in it.

Cheer

[Gary Livingston]

curious what a motor/gearbox unit like that costs? Great build!

Hey Ben. Thanks! The motor and controller is $6,500 and another 3K for the Borg Warner Egear drive. So about $9,500 at EVTV

[Gary Livingston]

Cool, good luck on the seats, I got the Large NRG seats and they just fit snug in the stock spot they are perfect for most people who sit in them not sure smaller would limit who can sit in it.

Cheer

Thanks Todd. I need to get the seats next before I make a bunch of decisions on placement. The seat fit, along with the steering and pedals will need to be installed to help me decide if I will keep the battery running up the middle. I have room to move that part of it if I choose. That said, I want all the welding (I'm sure there will be some incidentals) done before I send it off for powder coat so that when it comes back it truly will be mostly assembly of items that all have a home. As you could imagine, with an EV there are unconventional components that don't have a defined home so, there are many options. Weight distribution and proximity to centre as well as elevation all play a role in handling. This weekend is busy but one after I will head to Toronto to check out some seats. . . where I can sit in them and measure etc…. gotta try em out!

[Gary Livingston]

So I went to Toronto to try out some seats. Good thing too. I had my sights set on the Bride Low Max. No way. They are "made for 140 lb Asian guys" according to the shop owner. . .who just happens to be Asian, and he can't even fit in them.

I just bought one seat and installed the steering column and brake pedal to get an idea of fitment and decide on battery. I think I will not put that battery section next to the seat. It's just too tight.

[jmccabe]

Hey Gary,
Don't give up on having the center batteries. How about offsetting them slightly to the passenger side and just getting on of those tiny seats for the passenger.

Jeff McCabe

[Bob_n_Cincy]

So I went to Toronto to try out some seats. Good thing too. I had my sights set on the Bride Low Max. No way. They are "made for 140 lb Asian guys" according to the shop owner. . .who just happens to be Asian, and he can't even fit in them.

I just bought one seat and installed the steering column and brake pedal to get an idea of fitment and decide on battery. I think I will not put that battery section next to the seat. It's just too tight.

Gary,
I'm 6' 300 lbs and my son is 6'3". We will have no batteries at all in the cockpit.
Bob

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Jeff,

I dunno man. I want a decent look as well. I can still keep the larger section in the tunnel ahead of the seats. I have a few choices where to put this block.

[Gary Livingston]

Gary,
I'm 6' 300 lbs and my son is 6'3". We will have no batteries at all in the cockpit.
Bob

HEy Bob, Ya I know you are a couple of big guys. I'm not so big. It is nice to keep the weight centred and low of course. I'm not saying its impossible. . . but it's not looking good. I could cut off the inboard lever for recline as there is still one on the outside. That'll save me an inch. Still thinking of console utility as well.
There is room ahead of the front firewall, or right up front, or just behind the battery that is in the fuel tank location. I also want to add another 24volt segment. I could add it to one of the existing banks or get another set of end plates and place it separate.

[Gary Livingston]

OK so, based on some of the feedback here, I took another look. I think I can make it work with the batteries in the tunnel if I mod the seats a bit. I'll need to remvoe the inside seat lever, probably modify the outboard one and make a dam close, tight, hugging cover for the cells through the middle. The pack is sitting exactly in the middle when the seat pics were taken.

[Gary Livingston]

I should be able to create a nice storage space behind the seats also. My seats do recline and fold forward. The space above the battery could be used if the aluminum firewall was stepped instead of angled to create a shelf across the car.

[Gary Livingston]

I kept the Volt battery tray and carved it up to use it for proper securing of these cells in the 818. I cut just the edge strips (bent form hook edge on one side and bolted clamp on other) for the segment that goes behind the seats. These will get welded in place. I then cut the two sections for the cells that will go in the console area ( I think). I had to excise these out of the tray and then separate the reinforcement steel by drilling out spot welds. Starting to tack weld in place.

I have to modify the centre braces slightly for the forward section next.

[ninjanick]

Very interested in how the center tunnel shapes up. I'm still using the 5MT trans so I'm trading a similar modification to the frame, but only placing batteries in between the shifter location and the front firewall. Where do you plan on mounting the electronics?

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Nick. Well, I'm still deciding on some of it. The controllers have a fixed length connection that shouldn't be lengthened. The front motor controller will go just ahead of the front firewall. Luckily it fits in there. It will stand on end. The rear one will likely go fwd of the motor. I want to keep most of heavier items low in the car. The chargers can sit on frame work below the roll bar. Again, I'm thinking to squeeze them downwards. (as an aside, I have a couple thoughts on minimum weight that I may or may not pursue. One is to mount only one charger, 3.3kw, in the car for opportunity charging and the other on the wall at home and link them so I can do 6.6kw at home. Other is to use Batmod Vicors for DC/DC instead of Coda unit.) I will also mount a radiator with dual electric fans, and am planning to wedge it in the back of the car. Other electronics like the charger controller and GEVCU will mount on the frame under the roll bar.

Most of this is a vision at this point.

Cheers.

[Gary Livingston]

few pics

[Frank818]

Wow really nice! A lot of space after the engine fitted. But no pix of the front yet?

[Gary Livingston]

thanks Frank, Ill take a few pics of the front .... just for you.

[Speedy G]

Man, in your case, I think it might've been easier to start out with a no-frame kit. I hope Dave is checking this thread out. How cool would it be to have FFR do an EV kit from the factory, using your project as inspiration...

Btw with the batteries in the middle, have you figured out what seats to get? How wide is your "battery" tunnel? I'm thinking of using A123 20Ah pouches, so a battery tunnel like yours seems very appealing, but I'm wondering what seats to get.

Hey no paint on the frame or do you still have to disassemble, paint and reassemble?

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Hey Gary, way too long without an update on this 4x4 build!
What changed since Nov?

[Lumpyguy]

I live an hour from Gary and have emailed him a few times and he has not responded. not sure how he is doing

[Thumper]

any updates on the 4x4 build?

[Gary Livingston]

hey guys. I must apologize for being MIA. Lots has changed. I haven't touched the car. I moved. New place, separated etc. You know the drill. Anyways, just finishing to insulate the garage so I can work through the winter.
Sorry Todd, I also lost one of my email accounts. Anyways, I'm back on my feet now. I seem to be doing a lot of apologizing lately....
Don't look for much in the very near future but I will be getting back to it. I have a lot of catching up to do with everyone's threads.

Cheers,
Gary

[Frank818]

God damn Gary, I'm so sorry about all those bad lucks.

You do have a lot to catch up and on your own build as well, since we are very interested in seeing updates, we will be patiently waiting for you to be up and running.

Take it easy!

[Lumpyguy]

Man good to here you are back, I was a bit worried. have to get in touch soon.

[Speedy G]

Gary! Great to hear from you. Sounds like you need a cool hobby right about now! Oh wait, you got one! Just think about the blond that's going to sit next to your next summer. That'll keep you going!

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Hey Gary, you back on track?