Cut the new style upper control arms?

[Quiny]

I completed the rear alignment and it came out very good, all measurements completely repeatable. On to the front. Everything seemed to be going well until I got to the camber adjustment. With both sets of threads bottomed out on the UCA I can still only get to 0 camber. Caster is fine at 3.5 degrees but trying to get negative camber is impossible. I am using the aluminum lower control arms and had no issues with fitment. It seems like I either need to move the LCA out or cut the threads on the UCA. Even if I cut the threads I think I will still have remove at least one jam nut on the short side or cut the threaded adjustment sleeve. Am I doing something wrong? I did make sure the cam bolt on the spindle was all the way negative, it was worse were I had it set at mid cam.


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[Rasmus]

While I did see a jack under an a-arm in one of your photos, you need to measure camber and caster at ride-height. Your photos give me the impression you're measuring both at full droop. Recall that with the unequal length a-arm set ups, camber will decrease as the suspension droops more tending toward zero and then to positive. Camber will increase under compression; i.e. lean more negative.

So mount your wheels on and set the whole thing on level ground or, turn down your adjustable spring perches and jack those corners up to ride height. Then measure.

[billjr212]

Spindle brackets are my next step, and unless I misread, you should not be using cam bolts on the front spindle. Adjustment comes entirely from the upper a arm and the threaded sleeve on the shock. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[Quiny]

It is at ride height with weight in the car, that's what the jack on the lower ball joint is for. It's a good idea though I will try it now anyway to see if it makes any difference. You make a good point about the unequal length and it so happens that the front springs required very little preload to get to ride height. I was thinking that the heaver springs should be on the rear instead of the front when I was setting ride height. I have the 275 in the rear and 350 up front with the yellow shocks.

[Quiny]

Spindle brackets are my next step, and unless I misread, you should not be using cam bolts on the front spindle. Adjustment comes entirely from the upper a arm and the threaded sleeve on the shock. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct, I just used it since I didn't have a bigger diameter bolt to take up the extra space in the hole. I think if I hade just used a straight bolt it would be worse, at least I can get a little extra camber out of it this way.

[Turn In Concepts]

It is at ride height with weight in the car, that's what the jack on the lower ball joint is for. It's a good idea though I will try it now anyway to see if it makes any difference. You make a good point about the unequal length and it so happens that the front springs required very little preload to get to ride height. I was thinking that the heaver springs should be on the rear instead of the front when I was setting ride height. I have the 275 in the rear and 350 up front with the yellow shocks.

You can't measure the alignment with the car being supported under the ball joint on the lower control arm. By doing that you have effectively reduced the motion ratio of the front suspension which will result in a higher overall ride height. The best way to do this is to put the tires on and set them down on slip plates. You can buy bearing style slip plates or you can use a couple 12" tiles with grease between them so the tiles slip on each other.

Tony

[Rasmus]

An even cheaper and less messy way to make a "slip plate" is to put 3 plastic bags you get at the grocery store, laid flat, under each wheel. But I do use 12" tiles to level my floor under each wheel.

[Quiny]

Great advice all, that was it. With the tire mounted and on the ground I get enough camber, but just barely. I still don't really understand the difference I was always under the impression that if the lifting force was under the spring that it was the same as with the wheel on. There must be some kind of fulcrum effect that I don't understand. I measured 3 times with the wheel on and off and all the results were the same. It definitely does make a difference. As far as skid plates I have been using Linoleum tiles with grease. I have to double them up on one side to make up for the pitch in my garage floor. I may cut the threads anyway in case I want more caster but for now we are good. Thanks again for the help this forum is a huge help.

[DMC7492]

Quincy my kit came with the proper sized bolts for the 16 mm front spindle mount, they were not on the bolt list but the bolts and nuts were in the hardware box, notice the four bolts to the left of the shocks, two are the BIG uns!image.jpg

[Boog]

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What was the extra tab on the passenger side lower control arm used for when its on a WRX?

[longislandwrx]

I've never seen it connected to anything.

[C.Plavan]

An even cheaper and less messy way to make a "slip plate" is to put 3 plastic bags you get at the grocery store, laid flat, under each wheel. But I do use 12" tiles to level my floor under each wheel.

and use PAM cooking spray.

[DMC7492]

Quiny, did you install a free caster spacer on the lower control arm?? I wonder if this modification is causing the camber issue.
I did and have the same issue getting the upper control arm "in" enough to produce negative camber. I swapped the two upper control arm adjusters but it got worse.
However if the caster is up over 5 degrees I can get pretty close on the drivers side but not on the pass side.
Best at 4degrees caster is pass side positive 1.2 and the drivers side positive .8 degrees.
The upper control arm needs to move inwards about 1/4" to get an adjustable negative camber for the street..

[Quiny]

I did not install any additional spacers. I was able to get the caster but I did have to cut off about 5 threads on the rear and front adjustment threads. The rear (smaller) adjustment is pretty much bottomed out.

[philly15]

Quiny, did you install a free caster spacer on the lower control arm?? I wonder if this modification is causing the camber issue.
I did and have the same issue getting the upper control arm "in" enough to produce negative camber. I swapped the two upper control arm adjusters but it got worse.
However if the caster is up over 5 degrees I can get pretty close on the drivers side but not on the pass side.
Best at 4degrees caster is pass side positive 1.2 and the drivers side positive .8 degrees.
The upper control arm needs to move inwards about 1/4" to get an adjustable negative camber for the street..

I think I have this issue too, I have a 13mm spacer installed on each side, and with the upper arm fully adjusted Im probably sitting right at zero for camber maybe a little positive just looking at it. Does anyone who used spacers have any insight?

[DMC7492]

Okay after cutting the front long welded stud down 1/2" I can achieve -.5 camber and 3 degrees caster, even a little more if I want. The rear studs with the short adjusters DONOT have to be shortened.

[Quiny]

That's pretty much where I ended up. I just cut a little of the short side in case I needed the extra adjustment, but I really didn't need to, it only gains you a few threads before it bottoms on the sleeve.

[Boog]

Can a shorter sleeve be run? Would there be enough threads left inside the sleeve with a jam nut in place?

[DMC7492]

Boog, not in my case, the sleeve. Bottomed out the threads on the long welded stud.

[Jaime]

Does anyone know where to get the sleeves? Factory Five told me they were from SPC, but SPC only sells them as short as 4 inches while the 818 kit comes with 3 inch and 2 inch sleeves. I'm at the bottom of my 3 inch sleeves and I'm considering going to all 2 inchers.

[JeromeS13]

https://www.midwestcontrol.com/part_family.php?id=7

[Jaime]

They have them from 26 inches down to 4 inches, in either steel or aluminum.

[Frank818]

Not sure I followed up correctly this thread.

The problem is the sleeves bottom out before all the threads are in? I got that.
And even at that point the recommended camber cannot be achieved? I hope I don't have that!

This is the maximum I can get:

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[C.Plavan]

Frank- have you not looked at everyone's thread that you comment on? We have all already done it. You have to cut to achieve the camber you want.

[Frank818]

Frank- have you not looked at everyone's thread that you comment on?

Precisely why I say I don't fully understand. Sorry if my memory and notes are not as perfect as yours, but I remember R's have to cut it to achieve "more" than the recommended camber. I have seen one S barely achieving the recommended setting without cutting it (my notes say that). But I have not noticed S's "systematically" cut it to achieve the recommended setting.

[DMC7492]

Hi Jaime Call SPC 1800-525-6505 ask for Craig or Brad. They dont have them in the catalog, I ordered three inch units today and will have 2 extra 2 inch sleeves by next week at this time. Had I read this before noon today I would have traded you threes for the two inchers!!

I think all the issues are based upon ride height, and tire size. If we add the caster spacer in the lower control arm this pushes the wheel forward and out, thus requiring a longer rear adjustment , if this is on a "S" the lower caster number also pushes the top ball joint forward and a lower camber number also pushes the upper ball joint out.
In the R the caster will be higher which pushes the upper ball joint back and less adjustment length is needed along with more negative camber thus bottoming out the rear adjuster and also requiring the front adjuster to be shorter.
Bottom line is put it together at the ride height required and see what you get then figure out which way you need the upper ball joint to move to give you the correct numbers and then do some trimming where needed.
This is my set up and you can see with the free caster spacer and street camber and caster specifications at 5 " ride height, I need a longer rear adjuster.I also need longer studs which iI ordered also, so I have a inner and outer cut down 1/4" extra I will not be using.


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[Frank818]

It's interesting that you could bottom out the longer adjuster with most of the threads in. I could not get near there at all. I don't see what I could have different that would stop the threads from going in.

[DMC7492]

Frank look back at post 16, I already cut 1/2 inch off the long welded stud. This was required to get the front adjuster in far enough to achieve negative camber.
What are your numbers camber numbers caster and toe in and ride height and did you put a spacer in the lower control arm?

[Frank818]

I see. Cutting looks more common than I thought, then. I'll have to check closely once I get all the numbers, but I need to perform more installation (and weight) before I get an alignment. I'll prepare mentally myself for cutting.
No spacer on the LCAs and I use 215/40/17 which are 23.7" diam.