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Thread: Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod Build

  1. #41
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAubin View Post
    One thing before you paint your shock mount brackets, is to check the fit of the bolts...mine and some others hit the welds on the end you have towards the ball joint hole. Needs some grinding (tho a quick shot with the right size end mill would be easiest) just annoying to have to do after you've painted/powdered it.
    You bet! Got caught by that as well.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  2. #42
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxguitarist View Post
    Yep, just wondering if you'd found a good source of stock. I hate machining most stainless steels.
    I bought some additional SS spacer material from onlinemetals.com, cut to length I needed. They can be a little over, so you may need to grind a bit to fit.

  3. #43
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Tonight I spent some quality time with my mitutoyo 0.0001 mic and the crankshaft (once I found it).

    Subaru does a good job with those cranks. 0.0002 variance across all 4 rod positions, some of which was due to the garage cooling down. I'll re-check them with the garage door closed another night, and pick the rod bearings at the same time/temp.

    I've also gotten more comfortable with the fowler bore gauge. It takes a little getting used to the way that it works, since it's all relative measurements, instead of absolutes. It is pretty easy to work with though, once you're used to it.
    Say the crank measures 2.0469, you can either set it with "0" there, or at 2.050, using the mic either way, and do a little more math. It has a minimum hold feature, so you can rock it back and forth to make sure you're reading the shortest path, and the side ..wheels, for lack of a better term.. keep you from accidentally measuring off-center.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Well, made some progress last night and today:


    Nothing is torqued yet, and the seats are just set in for fitment purposes (Craigslist find we picked up today! Sparco Corsa seats). The wheels are also for sale, as we will be using Enkei PFO1's as our dailies, and undecided on the race ones, but they worked for the photo op


    Current plan is to run 500lb springs on the front. Based on other build threads, it sounded like we could not fit them inverted with the sway bar, so just installed them "normal" for now. We will be doing the castor mod as well, but still need to make the spacer.


    Photo is a little dark, but here are the rears. Running them inverted, 300lb rear springs.


    An unpleasant byproduct of assembling the axles today was the fact that our central air furnace is in the basement, which is attached to the garage... went out for awhile to pick up the seats, came back, and we were BLASTED with CV grease smell all through our house. Yuck! Guess I'll just tell friends and co-workers I found a new perfume and try to make it a fad...

    Test fit the new Sparco Corsa seats we picked up off CL. Man these things are comfy and fit just right! Andrew is 5'11" and 175lbs and they fit him perfectly... wouldn't want to be much larger.


    Pretty excited about the progress!

  5. #45
    Moonlight Performance
    Hindsight's Avatar
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    Wow, you two are really making quick progress. Keep up the momentum!

  6. #46
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Took today off to go to probably the last autocross of the season. It was the 50th anniversary of the Tri-State Challenge, so I ended up co-driving an rx-7, Andrew was in a 350z, and a friend of ours drove our Miata (it was musical cars). Connecticut won the challenge, and I ended up with my best finish of the year - 4th by raw and 7th by pax out of 75 drivers!! (Owner of car was ftd raw and pax). Andrew also won cs in the z, and we were shown our Miata's potential through it's 3rd place overall pax finish by our friend that drives at national level events frequently. Fun day and a great finish to our first season autocrossing!

    We will try to get the time lapse up of installing the suspension tomorrow.

    Also, thanks everyone for the tips. The shock mount bracket tip and the bending rather than hammering tip worked great!

  7. #47
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Sounds like an awesome day!

    Our autox season is done, I did get 5th pax out and 2nd raw of over 100 @ our last event at BNAS.

    The two of you need to come visit and do an event or two up here! We will have a couple 2 day events, we have the best site in the NE!

    Live by the golden rule... due unto others (first) as you wish they would for you

    This forum is just full of helpful knowledgeable people, couldn't build w/o it!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  8. #48
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Time lapse of the suspension! :




    Dan, will do next year! Hopefully with the 818

  9. #49
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    www.cumberlandmotorclub.com also on facebook the BNAS concrete is very aggressive... My 818 will be ready for events next year as well... I can put you in one of my two DD2 shifters too
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  10. #50
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    www.cumberlandmotorclub.com also on facebook the BNAS concrete is very aggressive... My 818 will be ready for events next year as well... I can put you in one of my two DD2 shifters too
    That sounds fun. Let's plan on it sometime next summer!

  11. #51
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    We played with mounting our 27mm Cobb sway bar last night to get an idea of it will fit. We can get it in there (this is NOT an easy in and out swap design like our Miata... it required disconnecting the top of the coilovers) and it has plenty of clearance on the inside toward the coilovers, but not so much on the outside. We adjusted the upper control arms more toward positive camber (we started with it adjusted all the way tight for max camber) and got it to stop hitting. The next issue is going to be how far we can turn the wheel before it hits.

    Positive camber:



    But it does clear:


    But not so much when we turn the wheel...


    We're not sure yet whether it will be the sort of thing where we can cut off the last two adjustment points on the sway (basically be limited to full stiff) and then have full turning radius. We're going to wait and see, because we want to make sure that we can get at least a certain amount of negative camber out of the front.

    For now, we'll leave the sway on, but we will have to decide later if it is too limiting in terms of turning radius and camber adjustments. If so, we'll be looking at either a new sway or something custom. Also, 27mm is a HUGE front sway. We prefer an understeer biased car, but we'll have to see if it is too much... if it even fits.

    For reference, the wheels are Enkei PFO1's, 17x8, 45 offset.

  12. #52
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Looking really good guys, I don't even have the sway bar in, but it looks like some cutting will prob have to happen unless you can space out the bar off the mounting points just enough to clear. I am getting my motor back tomorrow, so over the next month I should have it all together and back to a running cart. Then the finished body will be back on and presto. If you guys are going to be around set up to stop by nicks or my place. I am in Exeter R.I which is not to far from CT border, when there done we gotta have meets. Happy building, looks like your both having fun.
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 11-07-2014 at 08:51 PM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  13. #53
    Moonlight Performance
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    Looking good!

    I think you can get away with a 35mm offset in the front, and still clear the fenders. Have you considered adding 10mm wheel spacers to see if it will improve the sway bar clearance?

  14. #54
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    Looking really good guys, I don't even have the sway bar in, but it looks like some cutting will prob have to happen unless you can space out the bar off the mounting points just enough to clear. I am getting my motor back tomorrow, so over the next month I should have it all together and back to a running cart. Then the finished body will be back on and presto. If you guys are going to be around set up to stop by nicks or my place. I am in Exeter R.I which is not to far from CT border, when there done we gotta have meets. Happy building, looks like your both having fun.

    Whose's Nick? Otherwise, that sounds great! We'll definitely be in RI at Thanksgiving time. Not sure what your family/work schedule is, but maybe we could work out some time the day before/after. We'd love to check out your car.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    Looking good!

    I think you can get away with a 35mm offset in the front, and still clear the fenders. Have you considered adding 10mm wheel spacers to see if it will improve the sway bar clearance?
    Yep, we'll definitely be looking at spacers. We are using the wheels to get a baseline idea of what we can fit before buying our race set up. We're going to try to fit 235/40/17's in the front, so it will take some modification. For our race wheels, fender flares might be in the car's future, at least in the front, so we aren't concerned about pushing the wheels out.


    On the swaybar note, one thing we just realized is that the sway bar is currently sitting perfectly parallel to the ground (no more rotation downward due to the exhaust cutout portion hitting the frame), but the wheels are at full droop. When we add the end links they will be locked in that position relative to the control arms, which will put them way out of parallel to the ground when the car is set on the ground and the suspension is moved upward by multiple inches. Anyone else know how they are handling this? We're assuming this is not ideal, as we've always been taught that the sway arms should be parallel to the ground. If we adjust it back to parallel with weight on the car, then we are concerned of the effect midcorner when the car cannot droop a wheel due to the sway hitting the frame and holding the wheel up. Maybe we are just thinking of this wrong though... any thoughts?

    We could space it off frame more like Metalmaker mentioned, which would give it more rotation...but then it would also push it out toward wheel interference issues. hmmmm this will be fun to play with Andrew's thinking custom front mount sway bar with tubing and welded end plates, but we'll have to see.

  15. #55
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Nicks, stickshift84

    Yeah let me know which day is good for you, just got motor back!!
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  16. #56
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    Nicks, stickshift84

    Yeah let me know which day is good for you, just got motor back!!
    That would be great. Yup, we've chatted with Nick a bit on the forums. It'd be great to meet both of you guys. We'll touch base as it gets closer.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    We spent most of today doing the unfortunate required things in prep for winter... swapped the summers for the snows on both 3's and the Miata, and an oil change. Completely cleared out the entire basement to try to determine the source of a musty smell we picked up this week. Pretty sure it was the rear wagon seats, as they had some mold starting on them. Off to the dump they went along with all of the carpet from the donor, and our basement smells good now. Hoping when we wake up in the morning it will still smell good. Also picked up all the leaves in the yard and weed-wacked. Might or might not have had the fire department called on us when we tried burning some of the leaves... whoops. For the record, it was contained to our fire pit!

    On the car, we worked on the rod bearings tonight. The King Bearings are outstanding in their tolerances. We managed to get clearances of .00215 to .00230 as the largest variance. We are running slightly looser clearances for the higher rev goals of the engine.




    Tomorrow we will work on the main bearings and *hopefully* close up the short block.

  18. #58
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Exciting, double/ triple check it all. Have fun is most important.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  19. #59
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Well, today had some highs and lows.

    Highs included getting the main bearings measured (wow that took forever. We checked them so many times we lost count, and kept mixing and matching the STD and STDX ones to get the right clearance), we painted pretty much all of the panels (hoping to prevent aluminum corrosion), and met Glynn (Scargo). Overall, it was a great day!

    The low included our worst CL buyer experience ever. The guy, who was not very literate and used "bro" and "yo" alot, bought our 02 WRX wagon doors, not realizing they wouldn't fit a sedan (they were clearly advertised as wagon doors). We then missed his call back, which was followed by an additional 25 calls, ending with threatening us saying " I know your address and I'm going to come get my money back." We did not meet him at our house, but we were pretty worried regardless. We got the police involved (boy were they not nice or helpful, and told us that it didn't qualify as a threat since he didn't threaten to physically harm us), but finally the police officer agreed to call the guy back for us and have him meet us at the police department to give them their money back, in exchange for us getting the doors back. He showed up with a big thug looking guy that even made the police officer nervous, but at least we hope the guy is happy and will leave us alone.

    On that note, CL is still our big winner, with $2820 in parts sales, followed by Nasioc $1445, ebay at $1110, and a local forum at $600, for a total of just under $6k in parts sales to date.

    Time for some well earned wine and scotch...

  20. #60
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Double checked the mains again this evening just to be sure after everything had sat in a consistent temperature for awhile. They are sitting at 1.6 - 1.8 thou on #1,3,& 5, and 2.2 thou on 2 & 4, intermixing two STDX and the rest STD.

    The rods were straight STDX to get the 2.15 to 2.3 thou clearances, but they were on new rods and a new crank, which makes sense.

    We also washed the block, and started figuring out how to gap the rings. Boy this engine stuff is exhausting. I'm sure we are overly stressing about it and checking everything way too many times.

    Tomorrow we will actually gap the rings (planning on larger gap - 20 thou top and 22 or 24 bottom, due to our higher rev application). The JE rings measured tight for a 99.75 bore (around 14 thou).

    We are not looking forward to figuring out how to actually assemble the short block... the whole long rod thing means the wrist pins won't line up the same with the access holes, so it could require some creativity.

    Let us know if you see any issues with these clearances and if you have any tips on assembling the block.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    the whole long rod thing means the wrist pins won't line up the same with the access holes
    Shorter or longer is not a problem - the pistons slide. As long as the wrist pin holes aren't offset (more than stock), they will eventually line up with the access holes. You just might have to turn the crank a few more degrees to get them to drop another few millimeters.

  22. #62
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    So these JE Piston rings are going to be the death of us. First off, we had an "oops" earlier this week and overground one. We called JE, and good news, found out that bore x .006 was what we should be shooting for (and what our "oops" amounted to). Tonight, went to start gapping the rings to this new spec, and on the very first one, we picked up by hand and with just a slight squeeze it just snapped in half! We weren't using any tools, just by hand went to place it in the cylinder, and it cracked. We can't find any one else that has had this happen per Google. Well that's a confidence booster in JE rings. Anyone know what other rings we could substitute with? We are going to try calling some local shops in the morning to see if they have any in stock.



    On a more happy note, our twin scroll header and up-pipe arrived today. We aren't sure yet whether the up-pipe will work (will require a T4 flange welded on and EWG's added at minimum). If we can't make it work, then Moore Performance has an up-pipe solution that will work, it'll just cost more.



  23. #63
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    For the record, I haven't been rock climbing for quite a few months. I don't have superhuman grip strength (anymore )

    The ring wasn't squished down enough to even fit into the bore, nevermind anywhere close to the gap closing up. Heat treating issue?

  24. #64
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    The learning curve...I have not broken one yet. Knock on wood!! I have not seen or used JE since my GSR days ( at least 13 years ago) and I think since then they have made thinner rings for better heat dissipation etc. Which has made some people really hate installing them. I am really unsure of the use of other rings, I have only ever used the rings that came with the pistons, so I am pretty certain that's what the pistons you have will use. I have only used cp on subaru motors so my knowledge is with cp with EJs. I will ask my friends at Wicked about the ring comparability. Good luck
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  25. #65
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Thanks. The weird thing is we weren't even installing them yet. We were still just taking measurements - no ring compressor or piston or anything. We are thinking it had to have had a manufacturer's defect to shatter so easily. Just glad it didn't actually make it into our engine.

  26. #66
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    Thanks. The weird thing is we weren't even installing them yet. We were still just taking measurements - no ring compressor or piston or anything. We are thinking it had to have had a manufacturer's defect to shatter so easily. Just glad it didn't actually make it into our engine.
    That is bothering me and it's your motor. My bud from Wicked does not use JE often in subaru builds but says they should be a good choice to use if everything specs out. The reason he does not use them much is he has seen some imperfections in there quality on the subaru stuff in the more recent years. It could just be a defect, but that's not a defect you want. I have not seen any wide spread issues with there rings, there actually considered to be some of the strongest made. You gotta remember there made very hard and they are sorta brittle. When they get heated they soften a bit. The pistons really need to warm up to work correctly and not damage ****. You might have just bent them to much, but still I have never broken one. I see it to be very hard to break it by measuring it and moving it around. The others are all ok I presume. Hopefully just an isolated issue.

    Chris
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 11-15-2014 at 09:23 AM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  27. #67
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Do these look right? Seems that the panels might have changed since the manual?



  28. #68
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    That's right. Mine fit better with the coolant passage cover on top of the dead pedal.

  29. #69
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Thank you!

  30. #70
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    My passenger side panels did not align up as well as the driver side ones did; but I was able to tuck both the vertical dead pedal and coolant cover panels tabs behind the other pieces so the only tabs showing are the bottom ones on the floor. It took a few hours of looking and manipulating them to get everything lined up.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  31. #71
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    It changed since the manual and mine did not line up very well as well. I had to trim them and modify many angles to force them in.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  32. #72
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    image.jpgheres mine.

    I am sure the triangle piece goes over the dead pedal as pictured in the paper weight picture book your using, I am unsure if that aluminum has actually had a revision. I would ask FFR if it has because the tab on the dead pedal is telling me that the triangle piece goes over it.
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 11-18-2014 at 08:02 AM.
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  33. #73
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Well the front firewall is fully riveted (and all panels painted, which took well over 12 hours to do - our hope is to prevent aluminum corrosion, so they are still painted aluminum color. A lot of work for not much visual difference now! lol), one dead pedal is in (waiting on a 2nd one for the driver side, with idea of reinforcing it), steering rack and steering column are on (we can steer!!!!), and pedal box is in (going to install the gas pedal tomorrow). Our piston rings are also due tomorrow.

    We are at 63.5 hours of work since we picked up our kit (15 hours on engine, 48.5 on build). We also just passed $6k in parts sales from the donor car! The only parts we are directly replacing that we sold are the pistons and turbo ($500), so far (headers, up-pipe, rods, etc. are still for sale as all of those will be new in this build).

    For mounting the master cylinder, we did as others on the forum and shaved the bolt heads so they would fit. We also switched to 1.5" long bolts rather than the provided 1" ones:


    Steering wheel and pedals!



  34. #74
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Hi Tamra and Andrew,
    You guys are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.
    I noticed that your steering rack doesn't look parallel to the frame. It might just be the camera angle. Take a look.
    Bob
    rack.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 11-21-2014 at 10:40 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  35. #75
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    Bob,
    I agree. On closer inspection, the 05+ spec spacers that I used to mount the passenger side are holding the steering rack off of the frame mount a little, despite full contact with the FFR U bracket.
    The 02 spec spacers which I initially tried would have resulted in crushing the wall of the steering rack or bending the U bracket before the bolts bottomed on the spacers.

    The rubber mount is not quite in full contact with the frame tab on that side, so I'll see about spacing the U bracket off of the frame until the rack moves back down to the parallel position. Anyone else had a problem here?

  36. #76
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    My U bracket (passenger's side) bent when my mech torqued the bolt, but nothing moved and everything seems to hold very tight, I'm not even sure I'll try to re-do his installation (so many I will but this one I don't think so).
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  37. #77
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I had to make a custom mount, but I think those issues were only with early frames...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  38. #78
    Senior Member xxguitarist's Avatar
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    I could have bent the bracket while bolting it on, but that seemed very wrong.

    I went to the longer spacers, which set it firmly in place, but with the rubber part not making full contact on the bottom.
    I will probably make a spacer to out the u bracket farther off the outside of the frame, then switch back to the smaller spacers that are called for on the 02.

  39. #79
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Timelapse of the panels, some of the engine, and the pedals (sorry on the pedals, our app cut-out, so missed most of the install and all of the steering wheel):


  40. #80
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Freeport, ME
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxguitarist View Post
    I could have bent the bracket while bolting it on, but that seemed very wrong.

    I went to the longer spacers, which set it firmly in place, but with the rubber part not making full contact on the bottom.
    I will probably make a spacer to out the u bracket farther off the outside of the frame, then switch back to the smaller spacers that are called for on the 02.
    I think that between Bob in Cincy, Craig and I last year we determined that there is a huge variation in steering racks. We found that the fluid port positions varied and interfered with the brackets too. I ended up using my air die grinder to modify the bracket (worked through 3 revs with FFR) never could get the arc right to sit the rack into it properly. Also ended up shortening the ears of the bracket and making my own, custom length spacers to get everything lined up right. IIRC it was around this time last year. Early builds also had racks that were mounted too far to the left. You could cheat it to the middle and have more rack travel in one direction vs the other (FFR soln) or move the rack or extend the tie rod or rack itself...

    keep smiling, you will get through it.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

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